Tunisia gov't says to close 80 mosques for inciting 'violence'!

[Zarvan]

What is exactly "Muslim" issues or "Muslim lands" may I ask. Do you mean Afghanistan and Pakistan? Are Muslim issues things like "kicking those selfish badmouthing Afghan's out of Pakistan"? There is an entire thread on that subject where one group of Muslim's ( Pak ) want another group ( Afghans ) booted out of Pakistan for being low down no good people. Is that sterling example of "Muslim issues"?



Care to tell me which brand is your idea of "Islam". Let me chose some out of the dozen brands that vehemantly claim they are "true Islam" - Shia/Sunni/Salafi/Agha Khani and I won't even bother going into the multiple franchises as I am sure you already know about them.

Most are so sure that their brand represents "the Islam" that they are prepared to kill ....

Islam is Islam no such thing as moderate or extreme. Now if Muslims land issues are not solved you can't end militancy, every effort would miserably fail.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Islam is Islam no such thing as moderate or extreme. Now if Muslims land issues are not solved you can't end militancy, every effort would miserably fail.

The "Islam is Islam" holds no meaning whatsoever. It is just silly play on words like "Milk is milk". I already stated there are dozens of brands of Islam all at each other's throats and killing each other. Which of those brands in your estimation is "Islam"? Do please answer that?

Yes, militancy can be resolved, country by country by looking at every case on it's merits as each has drivers ( some overlapping ) and I give you two examples. How much militancy is there in Turkey or Iran? That is because in both religion is regulated. In the former because of the secular state and the latter through the homogenous shia clergy and the central office of Vilayat-e-Faqih.

Both examples have centralised control either derived from a secular structure ( Turkey ) or Shia Islamic structure ( Iran ).

And when two neighbours ( Afghans and Pak ) cannot resolve their differances to the point where one group wants to kick the other out and the other bad mouths the former then what does that tell you about the existance of something called "Muslim lands".

It tells me it only exists in the head some dreamers ...

 

[C130]

good news indeed. rouge extremist mosques used as a breeding ground to brainwash Muslims should be shut down.

meanwhile peaceful mosques are being blown up by radicals.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Pakistan needs to take these steps more than any other country.
Sermons in mosques are full of political and Religious hatred.
Pakistan must go back to it's Sufi roots. Enough of this Saudi version of Islam.

There is nothing called "Saudi Arabian version of Islam". Hilarious claim. In KSA unlike in any other country in the Muslim world you can find all the major Sunni and Shia sects indigenously. The Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi madahib, The Zaydi, Twelver and Ismaili sects in Shia Islam and Sufism.

Islam itself originates from KSA. Whether Sunni or Shia. Sufism too. In fact it was mostly Arabians and Sadah families who spread Sufism to Pakistan.

Islam at it's core regardless of sect is very clear in its teachings.

Of course you can buy into that "moderate Islam" nonsense which obviously entails more than meets the eye and has certain agendas.

Terrorist groups such as ISIS etc. are not Islamic groups to begin with so that defies the purpose too.

@Mootaz-khelifi @Tunisian Marine Corps @Mouath14

Excellent step brothers. Ideally it should have occurred earlier but better late than never!

 

[PDF]

Why don't you tell us what to do about them, then? Let these Jihadi madrasas operate and spread Hatred among society ??

There is no reason why our madrassas cannot be used to help promote social justice in our society based on accepted Islamic injunctions, which for instance, forbid denying women their rightful share of property, which in turn could go a long way in ensuring women’s economic empowerment in our country. Many other similar Islamic injunctions can be emphasised to promote a sense of civic and social responsibility through the madrassa system, instead of using madrassas to achieve narrow sectarian or strategic objectives. Reforming what madrassas teach would thus have a much more positive impact on their students than trying to regulate their activities through administrative controls alone.


“It is important to mention upfront that not all madrassas are a problem and therefore these must not be viewed negatively as a whole."

An ideological vacuum?

In order to reform and regulate madrassas, it is critical to first understand the reason behind their rapid growth over the past decade. Madrassas fill up the vacuum in the provision of basic services such as education by the state. “The government is unable to educate poor children and no one cares. Only madrassas give them free education,” “If the government supports these students, I am sure they can make a difference,” he adds.

Problems arise in non-registered seminaries when there is no check on the literature being taught there, a cleric shared on the condition of anonymity. “Students of some of these unregistered seminaries are sitting ducks being misguided by anti-state forces,”

Shuting down madrassas is no solution but bringing reforms and taking steps to stop teaching wrong principles will be the right choice.This is not our duty but the duty of the state.



At the end,the only solution is to bring REFORMS.

 

[Norwegian]

Terrorist groups such as ISIS etc. are not Islamic groups to begin with so that defy the purpose too.

Yeah sure. They are not islamic, only they do violence in the name of Islam?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Yeah sure. They are not islamic, only they do violence in the name of Islam?

Nobody stops anyone from doing crimes in the "name of x or y". That does not mean that it has anything to do with "x or y".

That's a fallacy from your side.

 

[PDF]

Yeah sure. They are not islamic, only they do violence in the name of Islam?

If a group of terrorists start killing innocent people in the name of christianity where no act of it is following any principle of christianity, can we say they are christian terrorists?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There is nothing called "Saudi Arabian version of Islam". Hilarious claim. In KSA unlike in any other country in the Muslim world you can find all the major Sunni and Shia sects indigenously. The Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi madahib, The Zaydi, Twelver and Ismaili sects in Shia Islam and Sufism.

Islam itself originates from KSA. Whether Sunni or Shia. Sufism too. In fact it was mostly Arabians and Sadah families who spread Sufism to Pakistan.

Islam at it's core regardless of sect is very clear in its teachings.

Of course you can buy into that "moderate Islam" nonsense which obviously entails more than meets the eye and has certain agendas.
Terrorist groups such as ISIS etc. are not Islamic groups to begin with so that defies the purpose too.

@Mootaz-khelifi @Tunisian Marine Corps @Mouath14

Excellent step brothers. Ideally it should have occurred earlier but better late than never!

I am sorry I don't buy in to that drivel. Indeed there is no Saudi version of Islam ( after all that a royal family ) however Saudia Arabia without doubt favours or sponsors certain brand of Islam. You might call it Salafism. Without doubt the Saudi's have sponsored the the more uncompromising version of Islam. You may choose to ignore that fact but it is a reality.

Saudia has a major problem with radicalism that it has exported successfully given ample petrodollars ...

 

[Norwegian]

If a group of terrorists start killing innocent people in the name of christianity where no act of it is following any principle of christianity, can we say they are christian terrorists?

If that's so, how come ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups consist of Muslims, and Muslims alone? Why their propaganda only works on Muslim faithfuls, unlike Communist, Socialist propaganda that has cross-faith / cross-cultural support???

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If a group of terrorists start killing innocent people in the name of christianity where no act of it is following any principle of christianity, can we say they are christian terrorists?

In common parlence sadly yes .....

 

[Husnainshah]

There is nothing called "Saudi Arabian version of Islam". Hilarious claim. In KSA unlike in any other country in the Muslim world you can find all the major Sunni and Shia sects indigenously. The Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi madahib, The Zaydi, Twelver and Ismaili sects in Shia Islam and Sufism.

Yet The Saudi Government sponsors a certain sect.

Islam itself originates from KSA. Whether Sunni or Shia. Sufism too. In fact it was mostly Arabians and Sadah families who spread Sufism to Pakistan.

Doesn't matter. What matters is, Saudi Government endorses a certain intolerant version of Islam
which has cost Pakistan Billions of Dollars and Thousands of Lives. Of course Pakistan itself is to be
blamed more than Saudi or anyone else for that matter.

Islam at it's core regardless of sect is very clear in its teachings.

Of course you can buy into that "moderate Islam" nonsense which obviously entails more than meets the eye and has certain agendas.

True that and Wahhabism is free of all agendas and just serves the mankind. Hmmm....
Problem is a number of people follow Islam beyond it's basics. And that's where
the Saudi version of Islam comes into play. It's a mean to assert influence. Period.

Terrorist groups such as ISIS etc. are not Islamic groups to begin with so that defies the purpose too.

Says who? They're more Islamic than the Rasool himself if you ask them.

 

[Norwegian]

Nobody stops anyone from doing crimes in the "name of x or y". That does not mean that it has anything to do with "x or y".

Take a good time reading ISIS fatwas, charter of Hamas and of other Islamic terrorist groups. All their intentions and orders are quoted directly from core Islamic "teachings"

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

 

[Metanoia]

Guys...the solution is kinda right under your noses....April 28th 2015:

(In my opinion this will help in eradicating the extremist murderers from within...this is an important first step; progressive reforms FTW)

Outdated religious laws must be changed, UAE forum hears

ABU DHABI // Calls for renewal of religion, reassessment of outdated religious laws and orders, and putting an end to excommunication, were made by leading Muslim scholars at the second forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies.

Reviving Fiqh, Islamic science, is no longer an option, but rather a “life buoy” to stop indiscriminate applications of past-time fatwas or excommunication by extremist groups, said the grand imam of Al Azhar.

“Renewal is fundamental in the Islamic religion, which is based on constantly linking between religious texts, the purpose of these texts and the current living reality,” said Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah, president of the forum.

“There are calls to renew religion and religious speech and a religious revolution, as the Prophet’s companion, Ibn Masoud, said: ‘One who wants religion shall revolutionise the Quran’.”

He said that commands in religious revelations should be taken in context and they should be viewed based on the general principle and universal purpose of their implication.

He called for reviewing the fundamentals of Islamic science, as many rulings are no longer applicable in modern society.

“So people take the revelation and think it is universally applicable in every time and place,” added Sheikh Hamza Youssef, a renowned Muslim personality and president of Zaytuna College.

“For example, Omar bin Al Khattab suspended [the Sharia penalty] for theft during drought.”

Another example is the apostasy law, which used to be a universal principle and the general mentality of people at that time that leaving one’s religion is a capital offence punished by death, which existed in Christianity also.

“That was to protect the religion … but it is no longer the mentality for the age we live in, so when you look at the universal principle of Islam it is to attract people towards religion.” However, he said, in the current age applying apostasy law will cause more people to leave religion than to join it so it has an opposite effect.

As for other Sharia penalties, specialised scholars need to sit and think about them: “It all needs to be reassessed,” he added.

Sheikh bin Bayyah said that only the majority of specialised scholars could play the role of religion renovators.

Rulers are not expected to be angels, prophets or even good men of religion, their role is to run the state well, and even if they were corrupt it is not permissible to rebel against them by force like excommunicators do, because that results in destruction and death of innocent souls, he said.

Grand Sheikh Ahmed Al Tayyeb, of Al Azhar University, said Fiqh principles should be revised to stop extremist groups from using excommunication as an excuse to kill anyone who disagrees with their organisation. They are using a fatwa issued centuries ago by the scholar Ibn Taymiya, “who was busy facing the fierce and violent bloodshed between Muslims and Tatar groups”, he said.

Since the majority of scholars agreed that fatwas change with the change of time, place, circumstance and conditions, such principles do not apply any longer.

He also called the forum to collect literature and media publications issued by terrorist groups to counter their arguments.

Outdated religious laws must be changed, UAE forum hears | The National

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I am sorry I don't buy in to that drivel. There is no Saudi version of Islam ( after all is that a royal family ) however Saudia Arabia without doubt favours or sponsors certain brand. You might call it Salafism. Without doubt the Saudi's have sponsored the the more uncompromising version of Islam. You may choose to ignore that fact but it is a reality.

Saudia has a major problem with radicalism that is has exported something it has successful given ample petrodollars ...

Which drivel? The historical facts that I wrote which are well-known to any historian or scholar of Islam?

Islam is Islam and KSA as the cradle of Islam is doing its duty.

I am a Shafi'i Sunni Muslim like most Hijazis and I see no differences with the Najdi-based Hanbali fiqh.

I don't see any problem. Sectarian attacks in KSA can be counted on 1 hand and all the indigenous sects in KSA (all those I mentioned unlike anywhere else in the Muslim world) live in complete peace and harmony. In fact ISIS broke that peace for the first time by doing 2 bombings which were unprecedented in KSA but that was meet with widespread national condemnation regardless of sect so they even failed at that.

Anyway this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

@Husnainshah

Utter nonsense with all due respect.