Trump should win the Nobel Peace Prize, says South Korea's Moon

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

It was DPRK launching BMs and conducting nuke tests and China stood silent. And not just that, kept given oil, and gave them the mobile launchers. Where else did DPRK get the TELs? China was using the DPRK as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the US. Trump threatened and trade war with China and threatened to put sanctions on Chinese banks. Since China is not economically ready for it's holy campaign in pushing the US out of the western Pacific, they caved and agreed to cooperate in squeezing DPRK. If China really wanted to stop DPRK, they could have cut the oil in steps years ago. They didn't. Not until US pressure and global pressure at the UNSC.

It's DPRK legitimate defend knowing what US had done to Irak, Libya and US has none stop threaten Nk with their military exercise with SK and Japan, only Nuke will deter US from any temptation of using military force, if we're North Korean we will do the same. Why China used NK as bargain chip?, we have even encourage NK-US to have a direct talk but US has refused but US wanted to pressure China to do their dirty job to pressure NK, we're not US's servant nor slave. For over 40 years US has threaten China with sanction and embargo, we get used with that, sure we can't push US out of pacific but doesn't mean China is scare. And I lol'ed US pressure at the UNSC, they know that we have the veto power.

 

[Suika]

It's DPRK legitimate defend knowing what US had done to Irak, Libya and US has none stop threaten Nk with their military exercise with SK and Japan, only Nuke will deter US from any temptation of using military force, if we're North Korean we will do the same. Why China used NK as bargain chip?, we have even encourage NK-US to have a direct talk but US has refused but US wanted to pressure China to do their dirty job to pressure NK, we're not US's servant nor slave. For over 40 years US has threaten China with sanction and embargo, we get used with that, sure we can't push US out of pacific but doesn't mean China is scare. And I lol'ed US pressure at the UNSC, they know that we have the veto power.

DPRK already had BMs and arty threat to Seoul. How many countries have nuclear ICBMs? Very few. That is more than just a matter of self defense.

DPRK as a proxy nuclear power reduces the established US led order. China wants to change that and having a small nuclear power buddy would have helped China create a new order that it would lead.

If China veoted on a DPRK matter at the UNSC, then that would have been the end of China's economy and military action would have happened anyway.

 

[Nan Yang]

It was DPRK launching BMs and conducting nuke tests and China stood silent. And not just that, kept given oil, and gave them the mobile launchers. Where else did DPRK get the TELs? China was using the DPRK as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the US. Trump threatened and trade war with China and threatened to put sanctions on Chinese banks. Since China is not economically ready for it's holy campaign in pushing the US out of the western Pacific, they caved and agreed to cooperate in squeezing DPRK. If China really wanted to stop DPRK, they could have cut the oil in steps years ago. They didn't. Not until US pressure and global pressure at the UNSC.

Not entirely true.
US long term target is and always will be China. N Korea was just a prawn to be used to target China and justify more radar and weapons to target China. One of the pro-US poster here even said so, Rapture or Gambit not sure who.

N Korea was useful as it was never a threat to US and was not going to be for a long time....Until now.
What a miss-calculation. And it was not China that help N Korea. It was help from Ukraine, that N Korea suddenly overcome its rocket launching problem and now is a real threat to US.

China policy on N Korea is already very clear. No War, No Collapse and No Nuclear bomb.
Cutting all oil to N Korea will cause N Korea to collapse. Thus China will maintain enough oil to prevent N Korea collapse. Nothing more nothing less.

The Nobel committee fooked up big time when they awarded the Nobel Prize to Barack Obama simply for being 'cool'. Obama did nothing to deserve the Nobel. The people who calls for the Nobel to Trump is simply taking advantage of the extremely low bar the committee created. So it does not matter if you like Obama and despise Trump. Calling Trump as undeserving misses this point -- the low bar.

Let it go. The committee will never give the Nobel to Trump, even if during his administration, the Korean peninsula got peaceful, the Palestinians and the Israelis got a two states solution, all the nuclear powers disarmed of their nuclear weapons, and the cure for cancer was discovered. No matter how high the bar Trump achieved.

Now some people have short memories. Wasn't it you that said that Trump would do "something" when 3 aircraft carriers were sent to N Korea ?

 

[Suika]

Not entirely true.
US long term target is and always will be China. N Korea was just a prawn to be used to target China and justify more radar and weapons to target China. One of the pro-US poster here even said so, Rapture or Gambit not sure who.

N Korea was useful as it was never a threat to US and was not going to be for a long time....Until now.
What a miss-calculation. And it was not China that help N Korea. It was help from Ukraine, that N Korea suddenly overcome its rocket launching problem and now is a real threat to US.

China policy on N Korea is already very clear. No War, No Collapse and No Nuclear bomb.
Cutting all oil to N Korea will cause N Korea to collapse. Thus China will maintain enough oil to prevent N Korea collapse. Nothing more nothing less.

I don't disagree that China is the long term strategic competitor of the US. Since China wasn't helping in stopping DPRK continuing its nuke and BM testing, the US deployed THAAD. Officially stated reason was to defend from DPRK, but of course we all know China didn't want THAAD in ROK because of its radar. But it was still the escalation of DPRK that got THAAD into ROK. There simply wouldn't be ROK political capital if there wasn't the DPRK factor to deploy THAAD as ROK public support for THAAD was rather shaky for the first year. Support grew when DPRK tested the new ICBMs.

The Ukraine help was in rocket thrusters. But that is just the Ukraine selling to whoever, not as part if some geopolitical agenda. Afterall, the Ukraine sold China the Liaoning hull and prototype of the carrier aircraft that likely lead to the J-15.

I still maintain that if China had wanted to stop the DPRK development of nuclear ICBM, it could very easily have done so, but they didn't.

 

[Nan Yang]

I don't disagree that China is the long term strategic competitor of the US. Since China wasn't helping in stopping DPRK continuing its nuke and BM testing, the US deployed THAAD. Officially stated reason was to defend from DPRK, but of course we all know China didn't want THAAD in ROK because of its radar. But it was still the escalation of DPRK that got THAAD into ROK. There simply wouldn't be ROK political capital if there wasn't the DPRK factor to deploy THAAD as ROK public support for THAAD was rather shaky for the first year. Support grew when DPRK tested the new ICBMs.

The Ukraine help was in rocket thrusters. But that is just the Ukraine selling to whoever, not as part if some geopolitical agenda. Afterall, the Ukraine sold China the Liaoning hull and prototype of the carrier aircraft that likely lead to the J-15.

I still maintain that if China had wanted to stop the DPRK development of nuclear ICBM, it could very easily have done so, but they didn't.

I disagree. Explain why US maintain such a hostile attitude to N Korea. Remember US still labels N Korea as the axis of evil and sponsor of terrorism. What can China do when US keep provoking N Korea. US policy was provoke N Korea and blame China.
This was actually a good policy that was hard for China to counter.......Until N Korea thanks to the Ukrainian now is really a threat to US.

 

[gambit]

Now some people have short memories. Wasn't it you that said that Trump would do "something" when 3 aircraft carriers were sent to N Korea ?

We did. We scared the fat out of Kim.

 

[Suika]

I disagree. Explain why US maintain such a hostile attitude to N Korea. Remember US still labels N Korea as the axis of evil and sponsor of terrorism. What can China do when US keep provoking N Korea. US policy was provoke N Korea and blame China.
This was actually a good policy that was hard for China to counter.......Until N Korea thanks to the Ukrainian now is really a threat to US.

Because DPRK and ROK are still technically at war. The origin of the current situation stems way back to the 1950s at the armistice of the Korean War. China backs DPRK. DPRK serves as a buffer for China. US backs ROK. ROK serves as a foothold of US influence in East Asia that can be used as leverage in East Asia diplomacy.

 

[Viet]

DPRK already had BMs and arty threat to Seoul. How many countries have nuclear ICBMs? Very few. That is more than just a matter of self defense.

DPRK as a proxy nuclear power reduces the established US led order. China wants to change that and having a small nuclear power buddy would have helped China create a new order that it would lead.

If China veoted on a DPRK matter at the UNSC, then that would have been the end of China's economy and military action would have happened anyway.

Everyone knows China uses NK as a tool and as weapon to threaten America and Japan. Thaad came as a surprise to the Chinese because they had never imagined S Korea would agree to have the missiles installed. Thaad alters the strategic balance. The perfect nightmare would be if NK abandons nuclear weapon and unites with S Korea under the US security umbrella.

 

[Suika]

Everyone knows China uses NK as a tool and as weapon to threaten America and Japan. Thaad came as a surprise to the Chinese because they had never imagined S Korea would agree to have the missiles installed. Thaad alters the strategic balance. The perfect nightmare would be if NK abandons nuclear weapon and unites with S Korea under the US security umbrella.

Unification would be the end of China's buffer. I reckon China would at least expect the survial of its buffer state in exchange of cooperating. So I don't think unification will come soon. Also, ROK plan under Moon is to first create economic links with DPRK. Once DPRK economy grows and matures, then political unification would be sought after, a time that would surely take place after Moon's term, but he will want to lay down that path for his successor. This may require a reduction of US presence in Korea for China to not try to disrupt that path.

 

[Viet]

Unification would be the end of China's buffer. I reckon China would at least expect the survial of its buffer state in exchange of cooperating. So I don't think unification will come soon. Also, ROK plan under Moon is to first create economic links with DPRK. Once DPRK economy grows and matures, then political unification would be sought after, a time that would surely take place after Moon's term, but he will want to lay down that path for his successor. This may require a reduction of US presence in Korea for China to not try to disrupt that path.

Yes the end of buffer zone. I see two possible scenarios for Korea: both countries unite and become neutral (Vietnam scenario) or they unite and remain under the US protection (Germany scenario). As the US will never allow the first option and China influence is extremely limited unless they resort to war, the unification under US influence is likely. S Korea has money and technology, she can stem the costs of unification.

I think you are right. To ease China security concern, Korea can offer a reduction of US troops and withdrawal of Thaad.

 

[Nan Yang]

ROK serves as a foothold of US influence in East Asia that can be used as leverage in East Asia diplomacy.

US target is China. ROK and PDRK are just prawns to serve that purpose....Sounds like thats what you are saying.
To justify that, US needs to keep provoking PDRK. Except now N Korea becomes a new headache for US.

Unification would be the end of China's buffer. I reckon China would at least expect the survial of its buffer state in exchange of cooperating. So I don't think unification will come soon. Also, ROK plan under Moon is to first create economic links with DPRK. Once DPRK economy grows and matures, then political unification would be sought after, a time that would surely take place after Moon's term, but he will want to lay down that path for his successor. This may require a reduction of US presence in Korea for China to not try to disrupt that path.

First of all. Do you really think US will allow Kim dynasty to play a role in the Korean peninsula future ? That goes against all of US core values.

Secondly China's help is essential if N Korea is to grows it's economy.

Yes the end of buffer zone. I see two possible scenarios for Korea: both countries unite and become neutral (Vietnam scenario) or they unite and remain under the US protection (Germany scenario). As the US will never allow the first option and China influence is extremely limited unless they resort to war, the unification under US influence is likely. S Korea has money and technology, she can stem the costs of unification.

I think you are right. To ease China security concern, Korea can offer a reduction of US troops and withdrawal of Thaad.

Unlike US, China is very honorable. China will always build bridges with both Koreas.

 

[Novice09]

If Obama can get Nobel for talking about peace... than Trump deserve it for act... and Xi for action...