Trump says U.S. won’t sell F-35 fighter jets to Turkey

[Deino]

then Turkey should stop losing years to wait for british technology

Turkey and Russia togetger can develop everything and this is better than nothing

No-one will do this. Again, it is plain naive or even arrogant to think ... maybe in a joint venture between two equal partners, but not in this case.

 

[Deino]

to bomb ANKARA or ISTANBUL , Israeli F-35s should counter Turkish Navy including TF-2000 class Destroyers , then S400 , then HISAR-SIPER Air Defense Systems and Turkish F-16s in 2020s

F-35 can carry only 2 air to air missiles in stealth mode
even to produce 100 AKINCI UCAVs armed with 8 air to air missiles and AESA Radar to be integrated with 600 km EIRS Early Warning Radar for patrolling Turkish skies 7/24

btw Turkey develops GOKSUNGUR supersonic UCAV and MIUS stealth UCAV armed with even 280km SOM Cruise Missile and AESA Radar + SATCOM for SEAD-DEAD role

even old F-4s can fire 280km SOM Cruise Missiles on Israel , soon SOM will have range of 500+ km with Turkish turbojet engine



Israel can use F-35s against Turkey ... Israel has a unique position in the project because it is the only country that is allowed to equip the F-35 with its avionics and software
but Turkey never can use F-35s against Israel because of the F-35 like as a flying computer

-- The MDL ( Mission data loads ) has to be loaded into the F-35’s onboard computer before each mission and has to be updated after each mission

-- All F-35s must update their mission files and ALIS ( Autonomic Logistics Information System ) profiles before and after each flight

Only the US is currently capable of programming the MDL and ALIS for all F-35s

Can you please stop posting political off topic bull shit?? We are discussing this political decission and its technical issues and you already expect Turkey surrounded by countless enemies, whic only want to bomb Ankara.

 

[CAN_TR]

We can build this aircraft (hull, electronics... at least) the engine is the only part i have doubts.

I mean we could take the GE-110 engine apart and try to build something out of it in the next 10+ years, however i would additionally do business with western companies.

 

[CAN_TR]

You guys are way OT...

@cabatli_53 can you please delete this unnecessary comments.

 

[925boy]

Why not? In a equal Union, between China and Turkey to co-produce stealth planes is so logical. Don’t know why it’s not happening, Both these countries have expertise they can pitch in and share! China on plane design and Turkey on its in-house avionics and Weapons. This is probably the best solution I can think of! For both these powerful nations.

But You're not including the fact that Turkey is in NATO and NATO is anti-China and anti-Russia. Why would CHina want to work with and provide sensitive technology to a sizable NATO partner like Turkey? Its more of a strategic security complication for China to work on sensitive advanced defense with Turkey.

 

[Yankee-stani]

But You're not including the fact that Turkey is in NATO and NATO is anti-China and anti-Russia. Why would CHina want to work with and provide sensitive technology to a sizable NATO partner like Turkey? Its more of a strategic security complication for China to work on sensitive advanced defense with Turkey.

Perhaps but I think the Chinese hesitation is not because of NATO membership but Turkey double play via a vis Xinjiang Turkey has sheltered Uyghurs and even unsavory terrorist types so that I think is an issue but the Russians just sold and delivered to the Turks the S-400 plus they have sold S-300s to Greece as well so Beijing might he following Moscow and seeing what occurs

 

[Nilgiri]

What is your current analysis on this development @TheMightyBender

 

[Bismarck]

But You're not including the fact that Turkey is in NATO and NATO is anti-China and anti-Russia. Why would CHina want to work with and provide sensitive technology to a sizable NATO partner like Turkey? Its more of a strategic security complication for China to work on sensitive advanced defense with Turkey.

I am not sure about that. I can say that Germany is neither anti China nor anti Russia. Doesnt matter what US wants. Maas and Lavrow make this possition very clear.

Russia and China are an US problem in the first place.

 

[925boy]

I am not sure about that. I can say that Germany is neither anti China nor anti Russia. Doesnt matter what US wants. Maas and Lavrow make this possition very clear.

Russia and China are an US problem in the first place.

I think i have to agree with u.

 

[Bengal71]

What make me worry is Caatsa. If US put CAATSA into effect, We may face serious difficulty to purchase even EJ-200 engines for HürJet. CAATSA alone will make BAE question their participation into TF-X design phase. Turkish diplomacy should work properly to solve the problems with a mid way instead of describing the things like bad and good. Best likely scenario was to convince US to purchase both F35 and S400 but I think It became almost impossible with an official decleration of Pentagon. If US take all leverages into their hands, They will force us to accept all their terms with uaing sanction card unfortunately. It seems they keep the door opened even today. I have already had some hope to get F35 with using a smart diplomacy and soft offers like limited usage of S400 or transfer them to Cyprus island like Greece/Cypriots did.

For Hurjet and TFX,you should go for Russian engines. There is no other choice. The westerners will screw you over.

 

[LeGenD]

I think Turkey after becoming part of F35 realised its too expensive and cumbersome to operate and maintain and they would be better off without it. S400 gives them good air defence and got them rid of f35.

 

[TheMightyBender]

What is your current analysis on this development @TheMightyBender

Well to be honest I think there is not much left to discuss. Nothing that has happened is out of the ordinary. Both countries did as they said. But there are 3 recent developments that should be considered together to make a sense of what is going to happen from now on:

1- The US has dramatically lowered her tone After the delivery of the S-400 compared to before it. DoD officials are being very careful inchoosing their words, they are avoiding saying that Turkey is out for good, instead saying Turkish participation in the program is “suspended”. Implying there is room for negotiation. Read up on this here: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/07/17/turkey-officially-kicked-out-of-f-35-program/

2- Hakan Atilla was released from prison yesterday. His detention was a major source of contention between Turkey and the US. And the timing of his release is interesting. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-banker-moved-to-us-immigration-detention-center-145103

3- Turkey is amassing troops in the Syrian border and the US is sending James Jeffrey with a high level delegation to Turkey soon to discuss the S-400 and Syria.

While it is too early to say anything definite about the trends going on, I would say that the war of bluffs between the two countries is over now and they are coming back to reality. I see the 3 points above as reconciliatory signs on the US part. They saw that Turkey was not merely bluffing about the S-400 and they have nothing to gain by punishing Turkey now. Expelling Turkey comletely is a lose-lose for both sides. The US loses billions in defence exports and Turkey will have to purchase inferior warplanes. They have to suspend Turkey from the F-35 program to save face (they can’t back down after threatening Turkey for so long) but aside from that I think they will try to find ways of pulling Turkey back from the Russian side. There is a good chance that Turkey will rejoin the F-35 program within a couple of years after making some symbolic concessions, but I wouldnt bet my money on it.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

It’s the freedom, stupid!!!!

Free at last....Free at last.....

Give me freedom, or give me death...

I can live without food, but never without freedom....

 

[Nilgiri]

Well to be honest I think there is not much left to discuss. Nothing that has happened is out of the ordinary. Both countries did as they said. But there are 3 recent developments that should be considered together to make a sense of what is going to happen from now on:

1- The US has dramatically lowered her tone After the delivery of the S-400 compared to before it. DoD officials are being very careful inchoosing their words, they are avoiding saying that Turkey is out for good, instead saying Turkish participation in the program is “suspended”. Implying there is room for negotiation. Read up on this here: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/07/17/turkey-officially-kicked-out-of-f-35-program/

2- Hakan Atilla was released from prison yesterday. His detention was a major source of contention between Turkey and the US. And the timing of his release is interesting. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-banker-moved-to-us-immigration-detention-center-145103

3- Turkey is amassing troops in the Syrian border and the US is sending James Jeffrey with a high level delegation to Turkey soon to discuss the S-400 and Syria.

While it is too early to say anything definite about the trends going on, I would say that the war of bluffs between the two countries is over now and they are coming back to reality. I see the 3 points above as reconciliatory signs on the US part. They saw that Turkey was not merely bluffing about the S-400 and they have nothing to gain by punishing Turkey now. Expelling Turkey comletely is a lose-lose for both sides. The US loses billions in defence exports and Turkey will have to purchase inferior warplanes. They have to suspend Turkey from the F-35 program to save face (they can’t back down after threatening Turkey for so long) but aside from that I think they will try to find ways of pulling Turkey back from the Russian side. There is a good chance that Turkey will rejoin the F-35 program within a couple of years after making some symbolic concessions, but I wouldnt bet my money on it.

Its all welcome development for India S-400 acquisition...since Turkey is NATO member after all....so US cannot apply that much pressure on India to drop its acquisition....since India is not even going to get something like F-35 (if the argument is S-400 will give too much info to Russians about it).

Basically Turkey has ventured the most at this stage counter to CAATSA environment...so will be closely watched by many third parties as to how this all proceeds to use as precedent on their end.

 

[TNT]

No other reason someone would give up F35.