Trump ponders crackdown on Pakistan over terror ties despite experts' warnings

[LeGenD]

You should not be talking about credibility at all as an Indian. Because No nation is as dishonest as Indians are and I am only judging from the statements of Indian media and their politicians.

Bro,

Your stance is correct but he has a point.

Afghanistan [is] getting out of our hands and Taliban is just a pawn in this great game. It started with assassination of Mullah Mansoor.

 

[CriticalThought]

That is my greatest fear.

What some of my naive Pakistani brothers don't understsnd is that US is the ultimate player in the regime.

All that talk of doom and gloom is a feel-good excercise for the naive and idiot.

I literally laugh at the comments that Taliban is gaining ground in Afghanistan. They are being "allowed" to until US decides their fate.

China and Russia won't achieve a dime in Afghanistan and would rather worsen the situation in this country for themselves and others in the region. I am sure that Russia is wiser than it was in 1980s.

There is no Vietnam for US in Afghanistan - they learned a great deal from that conflict and have mastered the art of warfare. All they need is to stage a false flag attack to influence public opinion and proceed with regional hammering. No better time when CPEC is in the picture.

I am really worried. This is like a calm before the storm. People have forgotten how bad security situation was in Pakistan during the period 2007 - 2014.

That is why I believe that instead of treating US as the foe - which India wants us to - we need to reach out to Trump administration on this matter for our own good.

Look at the timing of Trump - Modi meeting. I am not into conspiracy theories but we need to stop underestimating other players and start thinking smartly (or) brace for upcoming storm.

If America was such an ultimate player they would have eliminated Tslibsn long ago. The Taliban have been resurgent since circa 2005 and 150K American troops couldn't defeat them. Trump's exit strategy is India and we are literally allowing India to surround us by giving them free air passage.

Bro,

Your stance is correct but he has a point.

Afghanistan [is] getting out of our hands and Taliban is just a pawn in this great game. It started with assassination of Mullah Mansoor.

Wrong. It is solidly in our hands but corrupt rulers are doing everything possible to hurt our interests.

 

[Naara-e-Mastana]

.

I think US and Pakistan need to sit together and draw a long-term plan for Afghanistan .

Highly impossible as us interest isnt Pakistan's interest & Pakistan's interest isnt us interest .
Plus giving a foothold to india & keep a blind eye on indian activities through their consulates wont let it happen .
if forced Pakistan will eventually move towards Russian camp .

 

[LeGenD]

If America was such an ultimate player they would have eliminated Tslibsn long ago. The Taliban have been resurgent since circa 2005 and 150K American troops couldn't defeat them. Trump's exit strategy is India and we are literally allowing India to surround us by giving them free air passage.

Taliban is a militant force with the potential to acquire new recruits and resurge over time. You eliminate one batch and another will formulate.

US soundly defeated Taliban in 2001 but 'allowed' it to resurge in 2004. Pakistan was literally confused as to what US was doing.

American troops were spread across Afghanistan before drawdown in 2014 because they had numbers. I can show you lot of footage of US troops freely roaming in Taliban strongholds in those years.

US is a military juggernaut with ample experience in COIN and gurreilla warfare. It is virtually impossible to defeat US in the battlefield, if it is really committed.

Do you really think that situation in Afghanistan affects US? No. It is just a playground for testing new toys and conflict is good for business. One shall wonder how ISIS materialized there.

Taliban has splintered since assassination of Mullah Mansour or before - I bet many were not aware of this fact. Now they roam in small groups, staging attacks in different areas to project power but this won't translate into a victory for them.

Trump administration has empowered US military for matters in Afghanistan and this opens the gate for a wide-range of possibilities and options for US military to excercise in the region. Right now, they are mulling a strategy for Afghanistan and it will come to light in the next month.

Let us hope for a good outcome but we will be shooting ourselves in the foot by treating US as the "foe" in Afghanistan. This is exactly what India wants us to do in order to damage our CPEC prospects.

Wrong. It is solidly in our hands but corrupt rulers are doing everything possible to hurt our interests.

You think it is but it is not.

Mullah Mansour was a strategic card in our hands for Afghanistan but US assassinated him in Balochistan near Iran border. Pakistani establishment was furious about it.

Now we don't know whom to address there.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Mr. Trump is going to ponder (as in structured thinking for more than two seconds)....

There is something wrong with this statement... wonder what it is?


Mr. Trump...thinking.... that's quite new. Must be modi effect.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Pakistan has tried extensively to get the US to listen to its concerns in Afghanistan and has raised the points you have noted several times with limited success.
Pakistan has always been proactive with the Afghan peace process because what happens in Afghanistan affects Pakistan the most. We've already lost four decades to a war that raged across the border and we do not want to lose any more.
Unfortunately however, Uncle Sam is completely infatuated with the world's largest democracy and feels that they can do a better job in stabilizing Afghanistan than Pakistan can, with its Islamic roots and powerful military.
Any concerns that Pakistan raises with regards to Delhi are simply rejected by the US by being out of spite of India.
Over time, the US has nudged Pakistan to the corners of the Afghan peace process to accommodate India. The results, speak for themselves. Helmand and Mizar-e-Shareef have all but fallen, the Taliban are hitting Kabul harder than ever before. ISAF losses are up, Afghan losses are at a record high and the Afghans are now fighting not only the Taliban but IS as well.
Pakistan can only try and talk sense with the US, in the end, its their playground and they'll play ball with whoever they wish.

The US has basically
dug its own grave. It is playing all sides. As long as the US keeps appeasing India to counter China it won't achieve peace in Afghanistan.

We have heard this tough American talk before and we are not impressed. The Americans are kidding themselves to think they can influence Pakistan by carrying out drone strikes, enforcing economic sanctions etc. The Americans fail to grasp that Pakistan is not in their influence zone. It has been like that for a while now, but the Americans seem oblivious or in denial mode. Pakistan and other regional countries won't allow Afghanistan to become a total US/Indian colony which is used to destabilize other countries. The American game in Afghanistan is over.

China and Russia are going to get more assertive and involved in Afghanistan as American influence wanes. We are already seeing the first signs and they are promising. Also, Pakistan is happy to see more Russian and Chinese involvement in Afghanistan. Pakistan wants to see a change in Afghanistan because American policies have been an utter disaster. Pakistan has suffered immensely both in human and economic sense. The Americans are insensitive to Pakistan's losses and sacrifices. This only compounds the problems. The Americans are naturally irked by the China/Russia development and hence blaming Pakistan for their failures, but blame games won't get them anywhere.

The reason why Trump is unable to formulate a policy on Pakistan is because he and his minions don't have a clue how to rectify the mess in the first place. Obama failed miserably in Afghanistan and was a far more insightful leader than Trump could ever be. Trump and his amateur team has no clue. Afghanistan will turn to be another US failure. Especially under Trump. The writing is on the wall.

Pakistan should keep distance as far as US demands in Afghanistan are concerned. We have been there and done it before. Nothing good will happen.

bad analogy ...
Laos is tiny compared to Vietnam.
Pakistan is not tiny compared to Afghanistan

It is not size he is comparing.

 

[Icarus]

As expected there is usual India bashing with lot of in-congruent facts which doesn't make any sense. I wont get into it.

The problem with pakistan is that they dont think like a statesman but like mercenaries with only dangerous short term objectives in mind. In pursuance of short term objectives ppl of the country are the one who get sacrificed.

If Taliban comes to power in afghanistan by violence, they wont stop there. They will simply apply the same logic to pakistan as well.
Pakistan thinks they can control taliban or they will be good to them, thats nonsense. Taliban will simply claim that they defeated america a superpower and they can defeat pakistan as well. ppl who indulge in violence will never give it up. It will simply lead to a situation like that one in syria/iraq. Pakistan should be happy that america is taking the hit rather than themselves.

First off I don't see any India bashing in my post but I'll be glad to remedy that if you can point something unwarranted out for me. As far as I can see, I've noted that the US desires a greater role in Afghanistan for India, fact. I've stated that Pakistan feels that India cannot meet the assigned objectives and its presence is detrimental to Pakistan's interests, also fact.

Moving on, I have also not stated that the country should be given to the Taliban to run, your assumptions from a post that I think is pretty straightforward are continuously flawed. On the contrary, I have said that Pakistan maintains that the Taliban should be brought to the negotiating table as equals and should be co-opted into the broader national framework. The allies have always maintained that it couldn't be done and that it was detrimental to the system and yet followed the same model with Hekmetyar Gulbadin.

We've also seen the same model work numerous times in the past, most recently in Columbia where the President received a Nobel Prize for the same.

bad analogy ...
Laos is tiny compared to Vietnam.
Pakistan is not tiny compared to Afghanistan

You have missed the point entirely. The question is not about sizes, its about assigning blame to convenient patsies and then sounding the retreat.

The self respecting thing to do is to isolate Afghanistan by closing down both the border and disallowing flights. If they need to import anything, they should open a tender with us and we will transport after proper inspection. But our ineffective, traitorous rulers would rather celebrate Eid in London. If ever there was a definition of imperial colony, this is it.

Punishment is only punishment when it is transient, if you continue with it, it becomes a fact or existence, a part of the routine and eventually loses its edge.

 

[ito]

ISIS is gaining ground in AG at the expense of Taliban...that itself is a sign that there is a huge chance that next battle ground will be AG after Iraq and Syria. So US and Western forces will be there...and are not going to move any time soon.

 

[YeBeWarned]

ISIS is gaining ground in AG at the expense of Taliban...that itself is a sign that there is a huge chance that next battle ground will be AG after Iraq and Syria. So US and Western forces will be there...and are not going to move any time soon.

You mean to say More body bags will go home to NATO and US ? i doubt NATO Will push their Soldiers is sh!t pile called AFghanistan, they have battles to fighting within their homes, those who went to Fight with FSA and ISIS in Syria and Iraq, are coming back and creating troubles, no one has time to look for Afghanistan, if US try to push outside Kabul than it means more dead US soldiers ..and more dead Afghans civilians in Cross fire means more fighters for ISIS and Taliban ..

 

[CriticalThought]

Punishment is only punishment when it is transient, if you continue with it, it becomes a fact or existence, a part of the routine and eventually loses its edge.

It's not about punishing them. It's about neutralizing the threat and showing the enemy who is boss. It's about jealously safeguarding our vested interests. It's about adopting a position of dignity. It's about self-respect.

 

[Icarus]

It's not about punishing them. It's about neutralizing the threat and showing the enemy who is boss. It's about jealously safeguarding our vested interests. It's about adopting a position of dignity. It's about self-respect.

If you simply isolate Afghanistan, you not only end up forcing them to adopt other means of conducting trade but also trade away the influence you hold with the population. Its not a viable long term strategy.

 

[CriticalThought]

If you simply isolate Afghanistan, you not only end up forcing them to adopt other means of conducting trade but also trade away the influence you hold with the population. Its not a viable long term strategy.

The influence with the population runs deeper than trade. We are not disallowing trade per se, we are neutralizing the Hindu thread. A portion of the population understands this and they will remain our friends. But the population that does not care about the Hindu threat will never become our friends even if we bend over backwards to please them. Their measure of success is the day they can invade Pakistan. Trying to attain support in this segment is delusionary.

 

[Sine Nomine]

A few bad incidents in Afghanistan in this year and its all doom and gloom for US in Afghanistan?

Here are some facts:

1. US ended its 'combat operations' in Afghanistan in 2014 and switched to 'advisory role' after.

2. Taliban took advantage of American drawdown in 2014 and commenced its so-called 'spring offensive' against Afghan regime in 2015 but it failed spectacularly.

3. US assassinated the successor of Mullah Omar in 2016 - a strategic move that splintered Taliban.

4. ISIS emerged in Afghanistan in 2015 and have been siphoning men and material from Taliban ever since.

5. Current 'spring offensive' of Taliban is ill-advised as it has overstretched itself and does not understands its rammifications.

Let Taliban rejoice in its short-term gains until US takes a decision and hammer much of it to oblivion. They literally forgot that they are dealing with Trump administration this time. They don't understand that Trump has empowered US military in the matters of Afghanistan - something Obama administration never did.

One Question,
Why did'nt US obliterated Talibs before 2014,what made her to except coffins of her allies and her soldiers?
That's Afghanistan where even rocks are untrustable.

 

[LeGenD]

You mean to say More body bags will go home to NATO and US ? i doubt NATO Will push their Soldiers is sh!t pile called AFghanistan, they have battles to fighting within their homes, those who went to Fight with FSA and ISIS in Syria and Iraq, are coming back and creating troubles, no one has time to look for Afghanistan, if US try to push outside Kabul than it means more dead US soldiers ..and more dead Afghans civilians in Cross fire means more fighters for ISIS and Taliban ..

I don't get this argument.

When has body bags deterred states from partaking in conflict? What is the point of building an army if you cannot handle casualties and pressures of conflict?

Don't assume this will stop US from partaking in conflicts. Soldiers know very well they can die in combat - doesn't stops them from signing up.

US won't abandon Afghanistan until it feels that it remains relevant to its strategic objectives in some way. Afghanistan represents a perfect environment to test new kinds of weapon systems for one.

 

[IceCold]

Among the tools considered by the Trump administration, according to Reuters, are expanding drone strikes, withholding aid and revoking Pakistan’s status as a major non-Nato ally.

Now this is what i was saying the other day, if we can shoot down Iranian drone why cant the US drone be shot down as well. Why different approach to an equally similar violation of sovereignty? In fact US drones strike inside Pakistan so violation is much much more. And dont give this crap explanation about drone strike happening with Pakistan permission because clearly they are not which is why US is considering for deeper strikes as a means to punish Pakistan.
@Icarus are their any remote chances of something similar to what happened with the Iranian drone, happening with the US drone because if it doesnt rest assured US is going to go deeper and deeper with such strikes.