True Crime - Case 1 - Children Killer

[I.R.A]

The ages of the boy, as said in OP is 5 and 6, according to the arrest card and autopsy The mother is 5 feet 4 inch tall, 130 pound and the older boy is 3 feet 10 inch tall and weight 46 pound, the younger boy is 3 feet 7 inch tall, weight 40 pound.

9 minutes after the injury.

The murdered boys couldn't have resisted an attack .......... Still focusing on Rebecca ... I was thinking the wounds on mother may have been inflicted if one or both of the boys resisted ....... considering the situation no matter how strong she would have shaky hands.

I was asking about the age of the youngest surviving boy, who happened to be lucky because he was with his father upstairs. Can he talk?

 

[jhungary]

OK then.. There are my first observations.

The mother Rebecca look guilty from the very start. She claims that she kept sleeping in the same room as her children while the intruder broke into the house, cut/break the glass doing so, stabbed his first kid and sliced her throat and then stabbed her second son (she says she woke up when that second kid made noise when stabbed). This is ridiculous. The wounds can easily be self-inflected. I would like to see or know about details of the study of wounds on the mother. Their depth and angle to see if these were self-inflicted or was she actually attacked by an intruder. The comment of her being asleep while all the killings and stabbings were going on is something i cannot believe in. This makes her look guilty.

Well, that is actually her statement to the police, and I have photo on "Rebecca" injury, but that would include showing her face and hence she could be Identify. I can try to explain her injury if you want further clarification.

HOWEVER, what about the car that raced away when approached by the neighbor? That should be looked into before declaring anyone guilty. Just a coincidence? Even if it was, what about that sock found 75feet away from the house? Someone had to put it there. The report says that the kid died 9 min after the attack. The kid was still alive when the paramedics arrived. The call she made lasted over 5 min and she could not be making the call while she was stabbing the kids so if ever, she must have done that before the call, leaving her with 3-4 min to set up the stage, put the sock where it was found and wound her self. That is very little time even for professional or a serial killer to set up the crime scene let alone for a mother who have just killed her two kids, wounded her self and have no previous record of such violence (i think she do not have any otherwise you would have mentioned it). Also there is evidence of an unknown being present in the same house. There is a print (not on murder weapons but in the house) of an unknown person. The screen have been cut. An unknown car was seen in the area and it raced away when approached. Also it seems certain that Rebecca could not have out the sock away to the point where it was found and study of her wounds will confirm whether she could have done that herself or not.

Depending on this study, i think that while Rebecca is the one who committed the murder, there was another guy present at the scene at the same time. Now he/she can be an accomplice or just a burglar who was at the wrong pace at the wrong time. One key point here is "A second knife from the same kitchen set is tested positive with material associated to the broken screen in the Garage" The knife from the kitchen set is found to have traced of the broken screen. That knife could not have been used from someone from the outside it belonged to the kitchen set and was found in the kitchen.


Possibility One: She was helped by someone. The blood drops on the floor, thick small droplets indicate that she was wounded while standing there (by that person) and the same person left the sock where it was found and disappeared.
Possibility Two: There was a break in and she decided to use that as an opportunity to kill the kids and blame it all on that unknown guy.

Either case, it is Rebecca who is clearly involved.

Good analysis.

The murdered boys couldn't have resisted an attack .......... Still focusing on Rebecca ... I was thinking the wounds on mother may have been inflicted if one or both of the boys resisted ....... considering the situation no matter how strong she would have shaky hands.

I was asking about the age of the youngest surviving boy, who happened to be lucky because he was with his father upstairs. Can he talk?

The younger boy is below 1 year old (7 or 8 months old at the time) and he can't talk...

 

[Arsalan]

Well, that is actually her statement to the police, and I have photo on "Rebecca" injury, but that would include showing her face and hence she could be Identify. I can try to explain her injury if you want further clarification.

I wont need a detailed account or picture. Can you share if

1. Her wounds were determined to be at an angle where they could be self inflicted?
   
2. They were superficial? Cuts and bruises that looked really really threatening but were not putting her at risk.
3. They wounds were serious threat to her or were high risk, example, cutting a main blood line or inflicted upon a place that could have been life threatening if there was slight error made.

Also one important thing, was there are blood trail leading to the sock found on road at back of the street? THIS is important.

 

[I.R.A]

The younger boy is below 1 year old (7 or 8 months old at the time) and he can't talk...

2:30 am the boys are awake and are in the family room with their mother. Lot of things don't add up. the position of 3 and 2 in family room suggests the boys were awake, so why didn't they make any noise when someone entered from kitchen side?

Our murderer and accomplice never left that house. Garage (entry of the intruder) and living room (exit of the intruder) ......... how did he manage to breakout of living room if the doors were locked?

Any finger prints on the knife? Or any other artifact?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

@SOUTHie @Soldier-Boy @Zarvan @Arsalan @balixd @jetray

@Gothic @Hamartia Antidote

Hmm...a tough one. Plenty of possibilities.
I guess we have to grill the RN about if she really saw a car. If she did then the wife is less likely guilty and the husband and intruder gains credibility. If she didn't then the wife becomes more likely guilty.

Certainly the husband hiring people to do insurance fraud on his behalf gives him a HUGE red flag. He already has a history of dealing with shady people. He could have even gotten some of them mad by underpaying them for a past job and they came back to even the score.

 

[jhungary]

I wont need a detailed account or picture. Can you share if

1. Her wounds were determined to be at an angle where they could be self inflicted?
   
2. They were superficial? Cuts and bruises that looked really really threatening but were not putting her at risk.
3. They wounds were serious threat to her or were high risk, example, cutting a main blood line or inflicted upon a place that could have been life threatening if there was slight error made.

Also one important thing, was there are blood trail leading to the sock found on road at back of the street? THIS is important.

1.) Medical Examiner cannot determine whether or not the wound is self inflicted, it could be, but some is unlikely. There are 6 groups of wound Rebecca suffered, the cut to the neck, which is not on a horizontal wound but from a left to right motion where elevated from Left to right (so the start of the wound (left side of the neck) is lower than the ending of the wound (right side of the neck) also there is a continuation of the neck wound further down to the chest area with the similar elevation.

1 Stab wound parallel to the right outside forearm going vertical

3 cuts wound on the insider of her forearm, shallow cut horizontal to the forearms and appear to be L shape.

Cuts on the Left hand on her middle and ring finger just below the fingertips

Group bruising on her right hand

Group bruising on her left hand.

2.) of the 6 wounds, only one is stabbing wound, which is not a deep cut. All other wounds are cut wound and bruises, Rebecca release from Hospital in 48 hours.

3.) The cut to the neck is near carotid artery (missed by 1/16 inches) if that was cut, she would probably be bled to death.

And there are no blood trail leading from the back of the house to where the sock is deposited.

2:30 am the boys are awake and are in the family room with their mother. Lot of things don't add up. the position of 3 and 2 in family room suggests the boys were awake, so why didn't they make any noise when someone entered from kitchen side?

Our murderer and accomplice never left that house. Garage (entry of the intruder) and living room (exit of the intruder) ......... how did he manage to breakout of living room if the doors were locked?

Any finger prints on the knife? Or any other artifact?

Would have suggested the 3 was not dead until on route to the hospital, and his father worked on 2 but was pronounced dead on arrival.

No useable print could be lifted off the murder weapon.

 

[Soldier-Boy]

No useable print could be lifted off the murder weapon.

What about the intruding point means the supposed intruder enters the house?

 

[jhungary]

Hmm...a tough one. Plenty of possibilities.
I guess we have to grill the RN about if she really saw a car. If she did then the wife is less likely guilty and the husband and intruder gains credibility. If she didn't then the wife becomes more likely guilty.

Certainly the husband hiring people to do insurance fraud on his behalf gives him a HUGE red flag. He already has a history of dealing with shady people. He could have even gotten some of them mad by underpaying them for a past job and they came back to even the score.

There are numerous "Confirmed" sighting of such car, but the only one testimony or sworn statement on the Black Car that allegedly park in front of Rebecca and Ron's residence.

What about the intruding point means the supposed intruder enters the house?

Also no print are lifted on the screen, all print founded was indicated in the map of the house

 

[Soldier-Boy]

There are numerous "Confirmed" sighting of such car, but the only one testimony or sworn statement on the Black Car that allegedly park in front of Rebecca and Ron's residence.



Also no print are lifted on the screen, all print founded was indicated in the map of the house

Rebbeca was the killer.

 

[Arsalan]

1.) Medical Examiner cannot determine whether or not the wound is self inflicted, it could be, but some is unlikely. There are 6 groups of wound Rebecca suffered, the cut to the neck, which is not on a horizontal wound but from a left to right motion where elevated from Left to right (so the start of the wound (left side of the neck) is lower than the ending of the wound (right side of the neck) also there is a continuation of the neck wound further down to the chest area with the similar elevation.

1 Stab wound parallel to the right outside forearm going vertical

3 cuts wound on the insider of her forearm, shallow cut horizontal to the forearms and appear to be L shape.

Cuts on the Left hand on her middle and ring finger just below the fingertips

Group bruising on her right hand

Group bruising on her left hand.

2.) of the 6 wounds, only one is stabbing wound, which is not a deep cut. All other wounds are cut wound and bruises, Rebecca release from Hospital in 48 hours.

3.) The cut to the neck is near carotid artery (missed by 1/16 inches) if that was cut, she would probably be bled to death.

I wont say that these are self inflicted but i am sure these were not meant to harm her to a great extent either. The cut on the neck could have killed her if done properly and the one who did that had all the time in the world to do it properly yet he did not. The elevation of cut from left to right is also unnatural for a right handed person (if she is).
Plus the cuts are mostly superficial as far as i can see. Stab on the forearm, (ARM!!) cut on RING FINGER (was she mentally stable and happy?) Bruising on her hand (If this from cutting that glass scree or help set up that break in). While she lost some blood due to these cuts, none of these were extensively lethal.

3.) The cut to the neck is near carotid artery (missed by 1/16 inches) if that was cut, she would probably be bled to death.

This is serious and in light of other findings only support the point of view regarding an accomplice. She herself would not have taken that kind of risk and i am not sure if she wont know that there is this important main blood vessel at this spot. Since it was not the life of accomplice at risk, he was just a bit careless about it.

And there are no blood trail leading from the back of the house to where the sock is deposited.

Would flag this. Further strengthens that argument that the sock was placed there by someone else, someone other than Rebecca as she was injured at that time and would have left a blood trail. The KILLER would have left some spots as well, or stained boot prints but nothing there either. So i feel there was someone else involved as well. Killer seem to be Rebecca.



Plus please note that even though there are evidence of someone else present there, it is not like the classic break in. There are doubts about the screen that was cut (if it was from the inside or outside). No dust have been disturbed at those points. There is no print on screen either. A kitchen knife from the family's set is found IN KITCHEN with traces if the material that was cut. The intruder from outside would not have access to that knife to cut that screen.

Since you mentioned that the case is from 90s, i hope Rebecca is either in jail or have been sent to death and the accomplice have been found and charged as well. Personally, i am sure that there was someone else involved, someone else present there. Do anyone here disagree with this? please share what you think i have missed?

 

[Mrc]

What about neighbour RN.... I have my doubts on him ... may be he was having an affair with rebecca

 

[Arsalan]

I read very similar case on

How old are you?
The whole purpose of this thread is to debate the case at this forum by the forum members. You posting a link to the actual case will let us all know the outcome and will destroy the thread. Should have been a bit more sane than this!

 

[Soldier-Boy]

How old are you?
The whole purpose of this thread is to debate the case at this forum by the forum members. You posting a link to the actual case will let us all know the outcome and will destroy the thread. Should have been a bit more sane than this!

We already discussed it and including you suspect mother for the crime, So there is no need to extend it further, lets have another case study.
I don't like saas bhi kabhi bahu this type long discussion, read the case and name the suspect.

I am quite old married person.

So you deleted my link its OK now discuss it till the end.

And let me know new findings

 

[Lucky Breeze]

One thing is sure that the motive behind the incident is murder of kids only not burglary ( if kids got stab multiple times then crystal clear) . Otherwise why not the intruder killed rebecca too. Surely rebecca is the killer other wise who talk to emergency service for 5 mins when both of her kids are dying. And her husband is just trying to cover her may be for insurance claim.

 

[I.R.A]

Would have suggested the 3 was not dead until on route to the hospital, and his father worked on 2 but was pronounced dead on arrival.

No useable print could be lifted off the murder weapon.

hmmmmmmm ..................

The father went out of the house to approach KN for help, before performing CPR on 2? 2 had already expired why didn't he concentrate on 3?

9 minutes ............... Rebecca took 5 minutes or so on the phone, police took over 2 minutes to reach the crime scene (lets say 2 minutes) that makes it 7 minutes ............ so the boy was stabbed 2 minutes before Rebecca dialed 911. And in those 2 minutes she chased the killer, came back made the call, the police officer who responded on phone can he / she remember if Rebecca was heavily breathing?

The postmortem reports of the boys .......... are there any signs of torture and boys being drugged in past or near past? The sock filled with blood could have been arranged well before the actual crime by simply taking out some blood via injection syringe.

I would like to grill KN as well she is the nurse and holds medical knowledge, someone who could assist inflicting wounds on Rebecca, she can be a potential accomplice, plus details of Rebecca's and her husband's acquaintances anyone with a black car.