Tracing Arya Samaj in Karachi

[Surya 1]

Thanks once again for your response.
Am impressed! My deepest apologies for not knowing your credentials.
Your knowledge of the vedas is immense.

Could you give us a brief SWOT analysis of the shuddhi/gharwapasi movement?
I had posed some questions on the history and future of the various movement as started by the Arya Samaj in 1877.
Could you answer ( or if you wish decline to answer) those questions ?
As a management professional what would be your forecast and timeline for the reconversion of all Muslims in the subcontinent. Would this be the only way to reconstitute the punya bhumi or would a political reintegration of India be possible without conversions?

A phase wise event to the establishment of a united 100% India in Gantt chart or MS PP would be wonderful.
Could you attach a snapshot of the Gantt chart.
Would ask you for PERT-CPM diagram but that would obviously be confidential.
Thanks for a very interesting insight
Eagerly looking forward to your response.
Thanks

First of all I may be an informed layman at the most. I don't have much of knowledge of Vedas as you think.

S- it aims to bring back misguided people back to Sanatan fols. It has some fully dedicated people working on it
W- Not happning at a scale on which it should be happening.
Opportunity- The time has changed. Hindus are much pride community today and they believe that it is happening because of their legacy of Sanatan Dharma. Other people are also realising the strength of Hinduism. They have a great attraction towards it. So for Shuddhi this is the right time. Political environment is also favorable.

Threats- Anti Sanatan forces are not very weak yet. Islamist and commies are allied to destroy Sanatan. They are getting marginalized day by day. They do more and more conspiracy to remain relevant.

 

[Cliftonite]

First of all I may be an informed layman at the most. I don't have much of knowledge of Vedas as you think.

S- it aims to bring back misguided people back to Sanatan fols. It has some fully dedicated people working on it
W- Not happning at a scale on which it should be happening.
Opportunity- The time has changed. Hindus are much pride community today and they believe that it is happening because of their legacy of Sanatan Dharma. Other people are also realising the strength of Hinduism. They have a great attraction towards it. So for Shuddhi this is the right time. Political environment is also favorable.

Threats- Anti Sanatan forces are not very weak yet. Islamist and commies are allied to destroy Sanatan. They are getting marginalized day by day. They do more and more conspiracy to remain relevant.

Where do you plan to do shuddhi?

ISKCON hasn't had much success in the West. Only a few Karolina Goswami types have converted.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Would like to see one quote of mine remotely suggesting above..

Zero interests in religious threads. Again please stop tagging me in religious threads. @AgNoStiC MuSliM why are religious threads running here?

Apologies and my bad you didn't make any such statements.

This thread is not religious at all and if you noticed we have steered clear of discussing religion.
The Arya Samaj shuddhi movement was politically oriented towards changing the population composition and thus avoiding a Partition.
As an Indian don't you think that would have been preferable?
Please read my posts.
I would like your secular opinion on the population composition of my country today and if it could have been different.

 

[Surya 1]

As a management professional what would be your forecast and timeline for the reconversion of all Muslims in the subcontinent. Would this be the only way to reconstitute the punya bhumi or would a political reintegration of India be possible without conversions?

In my opinion, Islam is a dying religion which is loosing its relevance very fast. In my opinion, it will almost vanish within 3 decades. Once oil is finished with Arabs, they will not be in a position to keep Islam alive by pumping the money. Islam has nothing to offer modern world against Hinduism which has much much to offer. Hinduism is becoming first choice of many across the world. Attraction towards Hinduism for the masses is irresistible. Many who are not officially Hindus have started believing in Hindu principles. So I fore see Hinduism dominating in next 3 years or even lesser time. What is true for Islam is also true for Christianity.

Thanks once again for your response.
Am impressed! My deepest apologies for not knowing your credentials.
Your knowledge of the vedas is immense.

Could you give us a brief SWOT analysis of the shuddhi/gharwapasi movement?
I had posed some questions on the history and future of the various movement as started by the Arya Samaj in 1877.
Could you answer ( or if you wish decline to answer) those questions ?
As a management professional what would be your forecast and timeline for the reconversion of all Muslims in the subcontinent. Would this be the only way to reconstitute the punya bhumi or would a political reintegration of India be possible without conversions?

A phase wise event to the establishment of a united 100% India in Gantt chart or MS PP would be wonderful.
Could you attach a snapshot of the Gantt chart.
Would ask you for PERT-CPM diagram but that would obviously be confidential.
Thanks for a very interesting insight
Eagerly looking forward to your response.
Thanks

PERT-CPM is my favourite subject and I had developed a great interest in it during my study of ICWA and CFA and to some extent in MBA but these are abstract concept which are too difficult to quantify. I see Islam becoming irrelevant In India and in subcontinent. Do you see the same? The aggression shown by PDF members in defending Islam shows their lack of trust in Islam and it's ideology. Do you mark it?

 

[Baibars_1260]

First of all I may be an informed layman at the most. I don't have much of knowledge of Vedas as you think.

S- it aims to bring back misguided people back to Sanatan fols. It has some fully dedicated people working on it
W- Not happning at a scale on which it should be happening.
Opportunity- The time has changed. Hindus are much pride community today and they believe that it is happening because of their legacy of Sanatan Dharma. Other people are also realising the strength of Hinduism. They have a great attraction towards it. So for Shuddhi this is the right time. Political environment is also favorable.

Threats- Anti Sanatan forces are not very weak yet. Islamist and commies are allied to destroy Sanatan. They are getting marginalized day by day. They do more and more conspiracy to remain relevant.

Thanks ! Fantastic SWOT !
Questions:
Are you referring to just the territory of India, all of the sub-continent, or global ?

What is the time line for a
100% Sanatan Dharma population of a united India?
Gantt Chart or phase wise timeline.

The Arya Samaj had started in 1877 with a 70 year run.
Would your timeline be 70 years, 10 years, 5 years?

What would be your budget estimate for the conversion effort?
I know that is a difficult question but you can break it up.
Starting with Pakistan which the largest Muslim population segment in the subcontinent, what would be the budget outlay for shuddhi or gharwapasi of Muslims in Pakistan?

Please include a 30% reserve in the budget for unforeseen expenditure?
Also what would be the Investment Rate of Recovery. Would the newly converted Pakistani Aryavirs contribute to the movement and build temples sansthans and ashrams?

 

[Surya 1]

Where do you plan to do shuddhi?

ISKCON hasn't had much success in the West. Only a few Karolina Goswami types have converted.

No. Iscon is a big success. Bollywood, highly educated and successful Hindu diaspora across the world are indirect ambassadors of Sanatan. Do not forget sadguru and shri shri as well. These softpower is not converting people directly but it is changing the people. Today people has a great interest in yoga, Indian family system, social system, Indian stories from puranas, Indian education systems etc. These are initial stages of embracing Sanatan full fledged.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Where do you plan to do shuddhi?

ISKCON hasn't had much success in the West. Only a few Karolina Goswami types have converted.

Be sure to "like" or "love" Suryaji's post to keep his morale up. We need him to keep posting.

 

[Baibars_1260]

No. Iscon is a big success. Bollywood, highly educated and successful Hindu diaspora across the world are indirect ambassadors of Sanatan. Do not forget sadguru and shri shri as well. These softpower is not converting people directly but it is changing the people. Today people has a great interest in yoga, Indian family system, social system, Indian stories from puranas, Indian education systems etc. These are initial stages of embracing Sanatan full fledged.

Good.
Then within India all that fear mongering of Indian Muslims taking over India are false.
Indian Muslims are reducing in population and will soon vanish as you predict.
As a management consultant when will the subcontinent be free of Muslims ? A muslim mukt Bharat.

As an expert Management Consultant can you give us Gantt chart or event timeline?
We can put in dates later, General activity list
Simple OR:
Let's starting today :
Phase 1:
January 2021 - Event 1
Gharwapasi plan is submitted for phase 1 targeting BIMARU states.
February 2021 - Event 2
Gharwapasi plan is commenced in UP starting from Varanasi....

Or we could be far more general:
1.Years 2021-22 - Gharwapasi of all Muslims in Pakistan Target population 200 million
2.Years 2022-24- Gharwapasi of Bangladesh : Target population 150 million.
3.Simultaneous to Pakistan
Gharwapasi of Indian Muslims
Target population: 190 million.
Same node on the PERT-CPM diagram as Pakistan.

After all the Corona virus vaccination is under a similar but far more aggressive plan which is in days and months. So the Gantt chart should work for the Islam virus also.
Don't you agree?

W- Not happning at a scale on which it should be happening.

Do you have " 5-Why's " or a Failure Mode analysis to know why the gharwapasi is not happening on the scale it should?
Is there a CAR ( Corrective Action Plan) or PRP ( Project Recovery Plan) to put the shuddhi/ gharwapasi back on schedule?

 

[Baibars_1260]

In my opinion, Islam is a dying religion which is loosing its relevance very fast. In my opinion, it will almost vanish within 3 decades. Once oil is finished with Arabs, they will not be in a position to keep Islam alive by pumping the money. Islam has nothing to offer modern world against Hinduism which has much much to offer. Hinduism is becoming first choice of many across the world.

Ok so in three decades Islam will be gone. So all that effort Swamy Dayanand put in from 1877 -1947 was in vain. There was no oil being extracted from the Arab world until the 1920s and the Arabs were not even independent till 1919, they were part of the Ottoman empire.

But to agree with you if Islam will be gone anyway then why CAA or illegal Bangladeshi Muslims. They will all be become Hindus.
So shouldn't we just relax?
Oil will do for the Hindus what shuddhi couldn't do for 70 years.
After all the Muslims started with oil 1400 years back and the oil has kept them going. Now that the oil is running out Islam will vanish.
A simple financial case of unbalanced expenditure, declining profitability, high overheads and digging into the reserve funds.

Am I right?

 

[Baibars_1260]

No. Iscon is a big success. Bollywood, highly educated and successful Hindu diaspora across the world are indirect ambassadors of Sanatan. Do not forget sadguru and shri shri as well. These softpower is not converting people directly but it is changing the people.

Which countries do you expect to become majority Sanatan Dharma populated in the world in the next three decades?
USA, Saudi Arabia? Pakistan?

With Arab oil running out anything is possible. Cars in India now running on imported Arab oil will be all electric.
Timeline when Arab oil will run out ?

So when Arab oil does run out then will all Arabs become Hindus or will the Christian missionaries also have a crack at them?


Swami Vivekananda introduced Hinduism to the West in the Parliament of World Religions in Chicago in 1893.
I think Chicago should be majority Hindu by now .

 

[Bambi]

Which countries do you expect to become majority Sanatan Dharma populated in the world in the next three decades?
USA, Saudi Arabia? Pakistan?

With Arab oil running out anything is possible. Cars in India now running on imported Arab oil will be all electric.
Timeline when Arab oil will run out ?

So when Arab oil does run out then will all Arabs become Hindus or will the Christian missionaries also have a crack at them?


Swami Vivekananda introduced Hinduism to the West in the Parliament of World Religions in Chicago in 1893.
I think Chicago should be majority Hindu by now .

Is this like your job to incessantly flame bait and troll ?

@AgNoStiC MuSliM is this allowed to demean others religion so much

 

[Baibars_1260]

Is this like your job to incessantly flame bait and troll ?

@AgNoStiC MuSliM is this allowed to demean others religion so much

From @Surya 1
"In my opinion, Islam is a dying religion which is loosing its relevance very fast. In my opinion, it will almost vanish within 3 decades. Once oil is finished with Arabs, they will not be in a position to keep Islam alive by pumping the money. Islam has nothing to offer modern world against Hinduism which has much much to offer. Hinduism is becoming first choice of many across the world. Attraction towards Hinduism for the masses is irresistible. Many who are not officially Hindus have started believing in Hindu principles. So I fore see Hinduism dominating in next 3 years or even lesser time. What is true for Islam is also true for Christianity."

@AgNoStiC MuSliM
Refer to the post above. Suryaji is predicting that Islam will vanish in three decades and shortly before in India. Don't know if @Bambi agrees with Suryaji.

Kindly let us know if we are deviating from the topic. In my revival post I had asked the mods permission to restart this thread.,
I have been trying to stick to the topic of the Shuddhi movement in Pakistani and its results. It is obvious that if the shuddhi movement had been successful there would be no Pakistan today.
It is a strictly political and historical topic. Let me know if I can ask the mods to close this thread.
@Bambi is unable to provide data I requested.
@krash would recommend locking this thread because the members are not sticking to the topic of how for 20 years the people of Pakistan resisted conversions to Hinduism by the Arya Samaj based in Lahore.

 

[Bambi]

I

From @Surya 1
"In my opinion, Islam is a dying religion which is loosing its relevance very fast. In my opinion, it will almost vanish within 3 decades. Once oil is finished with Arabs, they will not be in a position to keep Islam alive by pumping the money. Islam has nothing to offer modern world against Hinduism which has much much to offer. Hinduism is becoming first choice of many across the world. Attraction towards Hinduism for the masses is irresistible. Many who are not officially Hindus have started believing in Hindu principles. So I fore see Hinduism dominating in next 3 years or even lesser time. What is true for Islam is also true for Christianity."

@AgNoStiC MuSliM
Refer to the post above. Suryaji is predicting that Islam will vanish in three decades and shortly before in India. Don't know if @Bambi agrees with Surysji.

Kindly let us know if we are deviating from the topic. In my revival post I had asked the mods permission to restart this thread.,
I have been trying to stick to the topic of the Shuddhi movement in Pakistani and its results. It is obvious that if the shuddhi movement had been successful there would be no Pakistan today.
It is a strictly political and historical topic. Let me know if I can ask the mods to close this thread.
@Bambi is unable to provide data I requested.

IS this what you are trying to do ?

"But to defeat the enemy we need to understand their
language, culture and religion
The enemy understands us much better than we need to understand them
The Russians learnt German so that they could defeat the enemy. The war is not fought on the battlefield alone, but on the social media and forums like these. Unless you understand Hindi, and the Hindu religion you will never have an advantage over the enemy."

 

[Baibars_1260]

I

IS this what you are trying to do ?

"But to defeat the enemy we need to understand their
language, culture and religion
The enemy understands us much better than we need to understand them
The Russians learnt German so that they could defeat the enemy. The war is not fought on the battlefield alone, but on the social media and forums like these. Unless you understand Hindi, and the Hindu religion you will never have an advantage over the enemy."

Of course! Why can't we learn?
Isn't that what the Arya Samaj did ? They had scholars in Urdu, Persian and even Arabic . They studied the Quran and stood on street corners and challenged the mullahs even going to madarasas and mosques. They had a few Urdu newspapers and journals the most important of which is the Risala e Vartman ( which I asked you to trace ) . The Aryavirs enjoyed a far better education and culture so they wrote essays in Urdu like Sair e Dosakh lampooning Islam and Muhammad.
The ignorant Muslim peasants of Punjab had no recourse to arguments or their hurt sentiments so there was rioting, Lahore had a 40%+ Hindu, Sikh population at the time, who outmatched the Muslims in wealth, education, resources and also had the sympathy of British government. The Hindu Sikh population controlled the choice property enclaves in the city and were well defended. The peasant Muslims got the worst of it.
Miraculously ( for reasons still unknown) they didn't convert despite being beaten by the Aryavirs in philosophy, organization and above all money. As a secular person myself I am curious why this happened. Also what would happen if the attempt is made again. The Indian Muslims can be taken as a laboratory example. How many have converted? I asked you for data and you came back with data on the growth of their population. I was chiefly concerned with the number converted by gharwapasi ot shuddhi regardless of what the overall effect was.

So you see understanding the enemy helps. Now don't ask who is the enemy.
Hindi is a nice language. Am learning it on line so I can read the Aryavir bulletin boards.
We are fighting a Social Media war here...
If you don't like the heat .,, then sorry.
@Cliftonite

 

[Cliftonite]

Of course! Why can't we learn?
Isn't that what the Arya Samaj did ? They had scholars in Urdu, Persian and even Arabic . They studied the Quran and stood on street corners and challenged the mullahs even going to madarasas and mosques. They had a few Urdu newspapers and journals the most important of which is the Risala e Vartman ( which I asked you to trace ) . The Aryavirs enjoyed a far better education and culture so they wrote essays in Urdu like Sair e Dosakh lampooning Islam and Muhammad.
The ignorant Muslim peasants of Punjab had no recourse to arguments or their hurt sentiments so there was rioting, Lahore had a 40%+ Hindu, Sikh population at the time, who outmatched the Muslims in wealth, education, resources and also had the sympathy of British government. The Hindu Sikh population controlled the choice property enclaves in the city and were well defended. The peasant Muslims got the worst of it.
Miraculously ( for reasons still unknown) they didn't convert despite being beaten by the Aryavirs in philosophy, organization and above all money. As a secular person myself I am curious why this happened. Also what would happen if the attempt is made again. The Indian Muslims can be taken as a laboratory example. How many have converted? I asked you for data and you came back with data on the growth of their population. I was chiefly concerned with the number converted by gharwapasi ot shuddhi regardless of what the overall effect was.

So you see understanding the enemy helps. Now don't ask who is the enemy.
Hindi is a nice language. Am learning it on line so I can read the Aryavir bulletin boards.
We are fighting a Social Media war here...
If you don't like the heat .,, then sorry.
@Cliftonite

You know Baibar I sometimes wonder what if Partition hadn't happened.

We were in majority in present day Pakistan and Bangladesh. But the resources of wealth were controlled by Hindus and Sikhs.

Would we have been like the poor Muslim peasants of UP? Would our population have been underrepresented? Would we have a a string of sarkari Muslim leaders who would be coopted by Congress?

They're so worked up when Muslims are 15%. Imagine how their state of mind would be if Muslims were 35%