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TPP Trade Deal: Gains and challenges for Asia-Pacific countries

You try to ignore the fact that VN is different with JP CAD etc in TPP, right ?

VN have the right to negotiate with US while the others dont. Just like US allow VN to enrich uranium on our soild while JP,CAD are not allowed.

Canada, Japan, etc are considered as developed nations and big economy whereas Vietnam is NOWHERE.

Its export to USA is even smaller than Singapore. It will be hard to convince me and I refuse to believe USA will support its former enemy. In a conflict between Philippines and Vietnam over these disputed island, USA will be soldily behind its former colony and Vietnam will be DESTROYED and classified as a TERRORIST state. :cheers:
 
Canada, Japan, etc are considered as developed nations and big economy whereas Vietnam is NOWHERE.

Its export to USA is even smaller than Singapore. It will be hard to convince me and I refuse to believe USA will support its former enemy. In a conflict between Philippines and Vietnam over these disputed island, USA will be soldily behind its former colony and Vietnam will be DESTROYED and classified as a TERRORIST state. :cheers:
Okay, keep making yourself with self-deception, Mr Ah Q. Nothing change in the real life. :)
 
:coffee: I suggest the Vietnamese trolls read it again and perhaps make an attempt to answer what I have highlighted before answering.

This an article which is very well written and addressed popular concern of the folks living in all TPP nations except RED COMMUNIST Vietnam. So the next best thing for folks with neither critical thinking nor IQ is to keep quiet.




It’s a deal!! The Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, or simply TPPA, which represents the largest U.S. trade pact since the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with Canada and Mexico in 1993, has been agreed upon by 12 nations – Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States and Vietnam.

Almost immediately, Obama administration celebrates the finalised deal as if they’ve won the World War III. The president proudly claims that the deal would OPEN NEW MARKETS for U.S. goods and services. But the public are still confuse, unimpressed and worry due to SECRECY THAT SHROUDS THE DEAL.

The deal is so secretive that American senators who wish to read the 1,000-PLUS PAGES OF TEXT must do so in a classified soundproof reading room in the basement of the U.S. Capitol building. Prior to access of technical jargon and confusing cross-references encyclopaedia-liked agreement, lawmakers must surrender their cellphones and other mobile devices.

Nobody is allowed to take away any notes, photos, or copies, let alone talk about what he or she read with anyone unless they have “TOP SECRET” clearance. So, how can rhetoric king Obama claims the deal is good when the contents are guarded with military-grade confidentiality? And how many lawmakers have actually read the TTPA bible before voting for it?

In comparison, lawmakers were allowed a copy of the NAFTA entire text during Clinton administration. In fact, it’s EASIER TO ACCESS CERTAIN CIA DOCUMENTS THAN TPPA INFORMATIOn. Therefore, it’s safe to presume that not all the 60 senators who voted to approve fast-track authority for President Obama about 4-month ago in June, had done so knowing well what they were voted for.

Now that it is finalised, Obama must notifies Congress of the TPPA deal, after which lawmakers will have 30 days to review it before it is made public. The full text of the agreement must then be MADE PUBLIC for at least 60 days. After that, President Obama can sign it.

Next, the U.S. International Trade Commission will conduct a full economic review of the deal. The agency has up to 105 days to complete that work. But by then, negotiations are no longer allowed and changes to the language can’t be made any more. What lawmakers can do is to fully approve the deal or REJECT IT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

The burning question: is TPPA a good deal with win-win solutions for the 12 Pacific Rim nations who agreed to it? If Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is truly a great business deal negotiator as highlighted in his book – “The Art Of The Deal” – then it’s a screw up deal based on his latest reaction.

“The INCOMPETENCE AND DISHONESTY of the President, his administration and perhaps most disturbing – the Congress of the United States are about to place American jobs and the very livelihoods of Americans at risk … The only entities to benefit from this trade deal will be other countries, particularly China and Japan, and big corporations in America” – said Trump.

How does Trump know it was a a bad deal from the beginning? Trump said that the lack of transparency throughout the secret negotiations should prove that the deal is horrendous. Hate to admit it but what the clown said is true – IF THIS WAS SUCH A GOOD DEAL, WHY WAS THERE NO TRANSPARENCY?

So, if the Americans are not benefitting from this deal, does this mean the other 11 nations would benefit at the expense of United States? Not really. Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is facing a tough and rough re-election this month with opposition party declaring it WOULD NOT BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THE DEAL.

Leaders of Australia and New Zealand are having tough time with a deal they couldn’t explain satisfactory. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak probably is AS CLUELESS AS THE PUBLIC as to what his country could benefit from the agreement. As one of the countries with little transparency but lots of protection, cronyism, nepotism and corruption, has NAJIB BROUGHT ANOTHER DISASTER TO THE COUNTRY?

So, does this mean Malaysia CAN SELL LOCALLY-MADE PROTON CARS to the United States without the need to meet strict US automotive regulations? If not, then the reverse is true so has Najib administration agreed to slash excise and import duties and makes American cars cheaper locally?

Considering US is the largest exporter of pharmaceutical drugs, essentially all the 11 nations would lose out if its pharmaceutical companies are allowed a LONGER MARKET EXCLUSIVITY that they already enjoy on genetically engineered drugs. U.S. law allows 12 years of patent-style protections so with TPPA deal, will the same privilege applies, which will make DRUGS MORE EXPENSIVE?

Amongst other, TPPA addresses tariff reductions for agriculture and automobiles, as well as intellectual-property rights for movies and pharmaceutical drugs, the free flow of information on the Internet, wildlife conservation, online commerce and dispute SETTLEMENT PRACTICES FOR MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS.

Does TPPA participating leaders, such as Malaysian Najib Razak knows that if his long perceived arrogant government chooses to change laws or other regulations, whenever they like, which could or would affect US big corporations, the US CAN SUE MALAYSIA FOR LOST PROFITS? Until participating nations can tell their citizens how the working class can benefit from the deal, it’s a BAD DEAL.

LOL posting the same blog post again and again. Why won’t you reference that blog post? I checked and I can only find that blogpost coming from a personal blog that has other articles like “Iranian women soccer team are cheaters cos they are men.” :lol: Is that actually your blog?

Anyway, leaving the questionable and funny reputation of the author aside, lets look at the content of the post:

It spends half the article talking about how spooky the TPP’s secrecy is, how even some Malaysian leaders are in the dark about it. But then it admit that the TPP text will be made public before the final decision to ratify it. So why spend so much time talking about its spooky secrecy?

As for the other claims about how bad the TPP could entails, they are nothing more than unsupported conjectures without any reference to the TPP text. And those conjectures were not referenced to any TPP texts at all, not even once. It did however quoted Trump to support its claims. :lol:

Good try though, but I’ve come acrossed more comprehensive article than that. If you know the author then please send my regards to him.
 
LOL posting the same blog post again and again. Why won’t you reference that blog post? I checked and I can only find that blogpost coming from a personal blog that has other articles like “Iranian women soccer team are cheaters cos they are men.” :lol: Is that actually your blog?

Anyway, leaving the questionable and funny reputation of the author aside, lets look at the content of the post:

It spends half the article talking about how spooky the TPP’s secrecy is, how even some Malaysian leaders are in the dark about it. But then it admit that the TPP text will be made public before the final decision to ratify it. So why spend so much time talking about its spooky secrecy?

As for the other claims about how bad the TPP could entails, they are nothing more than unsupported conjectures without any reference to the TPP text. And those conjectures were not referenced to any TPP texts at all, not even once. It did however quoted Trump to support its claims. :lol:

Good try though, but I’ve come acrossed more comprehensive article than that. If you know the author then please send my regards to him.

STOP posting rubbish reply again and instead attempt to answer what I highlighted in the article.

Why are you so defensive or worried about?

Defend your stand or your argument by answering the questions or concern raised.

Tai Shang is absolute right in his advice to me, you trolls are totally incapable of serious debate but will drag on the discussion in circle.

How does the TPP agreement shroud in secrecy benefit the ordinary folks? It is a SIMPLE and STRAIGHTFORWARD Question since it will involved them in the pocket where it hurts.

I guess I should STOP here because expecting an answer from trolls like you will be out of this world

:fie: :wave::wave::wave:.
 
STOP posting rubbish reply again and instead attempt to answer what I highlighted in the article.

Why are you so defensive or worried about?

Defend your stand or your argument by answering the questions or concern raised.

Tai Shang is absolute right in his advice to me, you trolls are totally incapable of serious debate but will drag on the discussion in circle.

How does the TPP agreement shroud in secrecy benefit the ordinary folks? It is a SIMPLE and STRAIGHTFORWARD Question since it will involved them in the pocket where it hurts.

I guess I should STOP here because expecting an answer from trolls like you will be out of this world

:fie: :wave::wave::wave:.
They are indeed trying to cover all sh!ts under the carpet so that they don't need to worry about those sh!ts and they can focus in blaming China.
 
STOP posting rubbish reply again and instead attempt to answer what I highlighted in the article.

Why are you so defensive or worried about?

Defend your stand or your argument by answering the questions or concern raised.

Tai Shang is absolute right in his advice to me, you trolls are totally incapable of serious debate but will drag on the discussion in circle.

Why whould I need to answer unsupported claims that does not reference any TPP text?

Provide me claims that are backed up and referenced the official TPP text first then I will answer them, dont just give me uncorroborated claims from a weird personal blog.

I can make a random claim: the third section of the TPP agreement text says that other members must be obligated to make Malaysia the richest country in the world. But I won’t reference that claim to any TPP text and challenge you to address that claim...so go ahead and address it. Your challenge is just as good as mine. lol


How does the TPP agreement shroud in secrecy benefit the ordinary folks? It is a SIMPLE and STRAIGHTFORWARD Question since it will involved them in the pocket where it hurts.

I guess I should STOP here because expecting an answer from trolls like you will be out of this world

:fie: :wave::wave::wave:.

LOL you still rant about the “secrecy” thing when it is made clear that the TPP test will be revealed publically before each country decide to formally ratify it, or not. What a funny guy. :wave:
 
Correct, the negotiation only happen between VN-US. Others are just US vassal states like former South VN. US dont need to negotiate with them.

TPP states are:
Brunei
Chile
New Zealand
Singapore
Australia
Canada
Japan
Malaysia
Mexico
Peru
United States
Vietnam

So let's remove Canada and Mexico from the list due to their close proximity with US and let's remove Japan from list since it can be argued that it is a economic colony of US in some sense. That leaves:

Brunei
Chile
New Zealand
Singapore
Australia
Malaysia
Peru

So you are going to argue this seven states, all bigger economies than Vietnam other than Brunei have less negotiation leverage than Vietnam and to quote your words "the negotiation only happened between VN-US". And here I thought some of the trolls like atawolf are delusional.
 
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TPP states are:
Brunei
Chile
New Zealand
Singapore
Australia
Canada
Japan
Malaysia
Mexico
Peru
United States
Vietnam

So let's remove Canada and Mexico from the list due to their close proximity with US and let's remove Japan from list since it can be argued that it is a economic colony of US in some sense. That leaves:

Brunei
Chile
New Zealand
Singapore
Australia
Malaysia
Peru

So you are going to argue that this seven states, all bigger economies than Vietnam other than Brunei have less negotiation leverage than Vietnam and to quote your words "the negotiation only happened between VN-US". And here I thought some of the trolls like atawolf are delusional.
I doubt vietnamese Know the detail of TPP.I also think many of them here don't even know which country joined TPP.For them,debating the bad side of TPP here is far less entertaining than blaming and laughing at china.It's just a game of our viets children here.Look,so far I haven't see one vietnamese show their acknowledge of TPP and discuss the good and bad affect TPP might bring to their country while most of them worshiping this agreement like GOD.It's just a game to these vietnamese chilren
 
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I doubt vietnamese Know the detail of TPP.I also think many of them here don't even know which country joined TPP.For them,debating the bad side of TPP here is far less entertaining than blaming and laughing at china.It's just a game of our viets children here.Look,so far I haven't see one vietnamese show their acknowledge of TPP and discuss the good and bad affect TPP might bring to their country while most of them worshiping this agreement like GOD.It's just a game to these vietnamese chilren

Funny thing is that Vietnam should be concerned with tariff reduction in certain sectors, just like Japanese was concerned with ramifications of opening up its agriculture sector.

For example, opening up agriculture sector in Japan may reduce the food price in the short term, but due to terrain limitation, Japan farmers would never been able to compete with southeast Asia, let alone the likes of US. So without protective barriers, it would ended up driving Japan farmer to bankruptcy and put the nation's food supply at the mercy of foreign suppliers.

Vietnam's issue is that while it population does technically pass the threshold for complete independent industrial chain (the limit is 80 million, which is the theoretical population required for a nation to support a complete and independent industrial chain), its territory is too small (Vietnam is actually about 10% smaller than Japan). This means without protective measure in certain sectors, Vietnam is vulnerable to foreign products flooding into the Vietnam market and eliminate native companies from these sectors, this not only makes the country more dependent on foreign entities for its operation, it also homogenize the economic structure and make it more vulnerable to financial crisis.

When China was establishing trade with the western world in the 80s, this problem is solved in a number of ways. The biggest advantage China had was that before the "opening up" is done, Mao has already spent two and half decade building up a complete industrial base for China. So by 1980s, China can pretty much produce anything it needs (though in some cases, the quality and quantity is significantly less than what it is today). This is something Vietnam does not have.
Secondly, China has never shied from using political intervention to put up barriers to protect its native assets. It also did not sign anything that would prevent the Chinese government from using that political leverage.
Thirdly, China is just plain big. From population to resources to market to military strength, it can absorb way more impact than Vietnam and thus has more control over its economic structure and development.

This is really why TPP has been taking this long to negotiate---some of the more ambitious aspect of the TPP are contradictory to smaller nation's interest.
 
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Funny thing is that Vietnam should be concerned with tariff reduction in certain sectors, just like Japanese was concerned with ramifications of opening up its agriculture sector.

For example, opening up agriculture sector in Japan may reduce the food price in the short term, but due to terrain limitation, Japan farmers would never been able to compete with southeast Asia, let alone the likes of US. So without protective barriers, it would ended up driving Japan farmer to bankruptcy and put the nation's food supply at the mercy of foreign suppliers.

Vietnam's issue is that while it population does technically pass the threshold for complete independent industrial chain (the limit is 80 million, which is the theoretical population required for a nation to support a complete and independent industrial chain), its territory is too small (Vietnam is actually about 10% smaller than Japan). This means without protective measure in certain sectors, Vietnam is vulnerable to foreign products flooding into the Vietnam market and eliminate native companies from these sectors, this not only makes the country more dependent on foreign entities for its operation, it also homogenize the economic structure and make it more vulnerable to financial crisis.

This is really why TPP has been taking this long to negotiate---some of the more ambitious aspect of the TPP are contradictory to smaller nation's interest.
Sounds like the economy of good old colony for western powers,isn't it?India for tea,south america for gold and bean.
 
So some more details are slowly getting revealed: This article shows that Vietnam does seem to have won some favorable exemptions, as predicted by the prophet @NiceGuy.

Vietnam to keep coal, crude export taxes under TPP, some state firms exempt| Reuters

@Viva_Viet @JaiMin, can you copy and paste the whole article here and make some comments?

I have to get back to doing some school work.

FYI @Nihonjin1051, @tranquilium

Although Vietnam's TPP gains would outweigh losses, experts say requirements for independent labour unions and fair competition and transparency with state firms have been concerns.

Khanh said Vietnam had got some latitude.

It would follow International Labor Organization principles on unions "on the basis of respecting its political institutions", he said, and would use its right to have carve-outs for state firms in areas of national security.

Vietnam has been accused of giving state firms preferential treatment and of using vague legal clauses on national security to justify state actions, such as in land disputes and arrests of government critics.

"We reserve the right to not commit state-owned enterprises in the national security and defence sectors," Khanh said.

"Allow me not to give a definition here, as TPP does not define what are essential security needs."


That was good, govt can't be biased like before anđ got the urge to reform or else they will be suffer or got sued under ISDS term. As my quote on the 12 countries strike TPP trade accord;
The TPPs, as you know, it requirements is to reform State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) in Vietnam, which suck up the lion’s share of government contracts, state-provided land use rights and bank loans due to their political connections, most often leaving private sector firms outside of closed-door deals. Also, it projects information often are not make public, so it is easily lead to corruption and lack of transparency

SOEs in Vietnam, according to study and survey done by govt and NGOs, are much less productive than private companies, (pretty much same like the rest of the worlds), and SOEs in many industries stay monopoly and too much reliant and favored from government which lead to inefficiency , so more competition with foreign firms are goods, SOEs will fail if they can’t boost productivity to stay competitive with international firms . By one measure, the incremental capital output ratio, or ICOR, SOEs require three times as much input to produce a unit of output as does the domestic private sector. Yet the big banks don’t loan to these more efficient, private sector firms. Instead, politics drives them to pour resources into the SOEs.

This use of capital keeps productivity low – and salaries along with it – while stoking inflation through the oversupply of money without simultaneous improvements in the economy’s efficiency. Average workers suffer on both ends. As long as their only competitive advantage is their cheapness, they can’t ask for raises. And with all the capital sloshing around the inefficient economy, inflation eats into their already low wages. So TPPs, as many officers in our country believe the entrance of foreign products and services, under FDI (foreign direct investment) or other ways, will help Vietnam, because at the least it will train Vietnamese employees in sophisticated skills and management skills and transfer of technologies to improve their productivity. Government also got FTAs with European Unions(EUs) and Eurasian unions(EEUs) in hope both take effect in the end of this year and boost FDIs. Plus S.Korea also

Vietnam follow export oriented economy, so this will lead to migrations in hundred thousand from rural to urban and industrial areas to seek for income improvement and better future (same case like China about 10 to 20 years ago i think). And life is getting more and more expensive in the industrialized areas and often the salaries of those workers are not in matches with the cost of living or inflation in other words. In a long run, this can increase the gap between rich and poor- not a good thing. So, the big problem in Vietnam is not unemployment, but inflation. VN need a leap in her education and training.

So, naturally, private businesses in Vietnam hope for a fairer shake in a TPP world. But surprisingly, many officials are also excited about this aspect of the treaty. (Some of them against it as it lead to lose of tax revenue and soften visa issue). The common refrain is that everybody in Vietnam knows that the SOEs hold the economy back, but the political will to cut them loose, and with them all the political benefits the ruling party can gain – the cushy positions for supporters and former officials and their families – is hard to muster. The TPP can be just the push that’s needed to inject this willpower into the reform process.

In fact, the governing party has staked its legitimacy on consistently improving living conditions. Nobody looks at the slowing economy and the erosion of salaries by inflation with greater trepidation than the political elite in Ha Noi. That is why the TPP is the governing party’s top economic priority, and also why the SOEs, with all their influence, won’t be able to hold back this agreement.

Source: 12 countries strike TPP trade accord | Page 5

Of course, TPPs not aim to eliminate the SOEs, the TPP will ensure that state enterprises operating under commercial considerations and compete on an equal basis without excessive incentives from the government, while still allowing government support and for the state enterprises providing public services in the country.

And the rule is much more depend on the economic status of the member countries. For example, in these article copy right and patent law is claim to take effect on 5-8 years but some other source says 3-8 and ISDS exclude certain industries or MNCs to sued the govt:
The agreement will also give corporations more legal protection against governments that they think are treating them unfairly, as a result of what are called Investor-State Dispute Settlement provisions. As I wrote in The New Yorker this summer, I.S.D.S. provisions have been a common part of trade agreements for fifty years, and they were originally intended to protect companies against foreign governments expropriating their assets or discriminating against them in favor of domestic competitors. Historically, I.S.D.S. lawsuits have been rare. But in recent years, they have become more common, and corporations have started to file lawsuits not just in response to discriminatory behavior or seized assets but also against regulations they perceive as unfair. Canada was successfully sued for not granting a permit to a mining company on environmental grounds. And both Uruguay and Australia have been sued by Philip Morris International for putting in place tough anti-tobacco laws. (Those cases have yet to be decided.) The fear is that these suits will become a backdoor way for corporations to exert power over public policy.

What’s notable about the T.P.P. is that, while it includes I.S.D.S. provisions, it also includes, somewhat unexpectedly, a carve-out that explicitly bars tobacco companies from suing under those provisions. This has been heralded as a triumph, and from a public-health perspective it’s unquestionably a good thing, since it means that it will be tougher for tobacco companies to stop things like plain-packaging regulations. But creating a carve-out only for tobacco underscores the basic problem with I.S.D.S.
Source: The Corporate-Friendly World of the T.P.P. - The New Yorker
,
 
:laughcry:Will it truly served the Vietnamese people interest or you are just an apologist for your RED government.

None of the citizens in all the TPP nations appear to understand what TPP agreement is all about.

While delegates mainly politicians as not one unlike OBAMA is a lawyer get to browse the 1,000 pages of the rules written by USA has to agree to SIGN based on their memory and the promises by the USA presenters without their mobile phone allowed in the hall. Not only parliaments, assembly and congress were fast tracked, even representatives of these 11 other nations mainly 3rd world delegates were.

So to tell us, it BENEFITS the people.... Hahaha How does adding to the peoples' pocket benefit them.

Being a citizen of a high income nation like Singapore it will not affects us much but we similarly do not like the idea of back deal done without our knowledge. That is what real DEMOCRACY is all about. Don't just talk about it. Get real.

But one thing is true as I read just yesterday, TPP has pushed India and China closer together. India is beginning to feel USA's true agenda and the joke is, it never involved or benefit them.

Funny you said Singapore will not affect much, Singapore rely on financial sector, services to get it place today, TPP was start by TPSEP or P4 nations, if you don't know please search it out, free trade was essential part of Singapore economy policy for long times, LKY is pursuit it when he was in lead . Everyone know Singapore is police state not real democracy, wtf you are talking about, talk bad about govt u can get sued and LKY not tolerate of any opposition party or dissident
 
But one thing is true as I read just yesterday, TPP has pushed India and China closer together. India is beginning to feel USA's true agenda and the joke is, it never involved or benefit them.

Yes, due to the rules of TPP, India would have difficulty joining, hence India will be getting closer to China economically.

Trump said that the lack of transparency throughout the secret negotiations should prove that the deal is horrendous. Hate to admit it but what the clown said is true – IF THIS WAS SUCH A GOOD DEAL, WHY WAS THERE NO TRANSPARENCY?

Not only the Donald is not in favor, Hillary is also not in favor too!
 
Sounds like the economy of good old colony for western powers,isn't it?India for tea,south america for gold and bean.

In some sense, that is exactly what it is. Keep in mind that US' initial goal and the most ambitious one when joining TPP is to integrate supply-manufacturing-consumption chain around pacific region, hence why countries like Australia are involved for resource, countries like Malaysia and Vietnam are involved. Truth to be told, the economic aspect isn't all that different from the way old colonial empires are organized.

There are differences though. Courtesy to cold war, US could not brought as much military strength to bear on these countries as the old colonial powers, especially around Southeast Asia region where the presence of China prevent direct US military action against these nations. This means the TPP nations would enjoy a much higher degree of independence than the colonies.

It is also worth to note that under US' organization, the role Malaysia and Vietnam plays will be low-end manufacturing where middle and high end products from US and Japan will saturate Malaysian and Vietnamese market. It would be a good deal for US and even good for Vietnam in the short term, but it will make future transition from low to middle manufacturing almost impossible because Vietnamese/Malaysian native middle-to-high end manufacturing will have problem surviving the flood.
 

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