Toxoplasmosis in Asia

[Kyle Sun]

what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Roybot]

bullshit.

you mean prophet muhammad, lenin, muammar gaddafi and the ancient egyptians suffered from that disease??

until dogs killed them, i raised generations of cats and i am a most calm and non-violent person.

india since 1998 is the "dog capital" of the world and india is extremely violent as a culture and society... this simple fact defeats the bullshit in the op.

eradicate the filth called dog, i say !!

 

[William Hung]

From LiveScience: Mind Control by Parasites

Mind Control by Parasites

“Toxoplasma gondii is a common parasite found in the guts of cats; it sheds eggs that are picked up by rats and other animals that are eaten by cats. Toxoplasma forms cysts in the bodies of the intermediate rat hosts, including in the brain.

Since cats don't want to eat dead, decaying prey, Toxoplasma takes the evolutionarily sound course of being a "good" parasite, leaving the rats perfectly healthy. Or are they?

Oxford scientists discovered that the minds of the infected rats have been subtly altered. In a series of experiments, they demonstrated that healthy rats will prudently avoid areas that have been doused with cat urine. In fact, when scientists test anti-anxiety drugs on rats, they use a whiff of cat urine to induce neurochemical panic.

However, it turns out that Toxoplasma-ridden rats show no such reaction. In fact, some of the infected rats actually seek out the cat urine-marked areas again and again. The parasite alters the mind (and thus the behavior) of the rat for its own benefit.”

eradicate the filth called dog, i say !!

lastly, the best way for a human society to achieve harmony is....make the cities a compromise between humans and cats.

Comrade, I don’t think it is you who is making these comments, I am convinced that it is actually the cat-induced toxoplasma parasites that has hijacked your mind and manipulating your brain into posting these extremely pro-cat rhetorics. Joking.

On a more serious note, this thread is not about cats vs dogs or about any specific countries, it is about this interesting parasite. The links between this parasite and its psychological effects were once questioned, but now more recent researches are now beginning to confirm it:

From Scientific American: Toxoplasma's Dark Side: The Link Between Parasite and Suicide - Scientific American Blog Network

We human beings are very attached to our brains. We're proud of them - of their sizeand their complexity. We think our brains set us apart, make us special. We scare our children with tales of monsters that eat them, and obsessively study how they work, even when these efforts are often fruitless. So, of course, we are downright offendedthat a simple, single-celled organism can manipulate our favorite organ, influencing the way we think and act.

Toxoplasma gondii is arguably the most interesting parasite on the planet. In the guts of cats, this single-celled protozoan lives and breeds, producing egg-like cells which pass with the cats bowel movements. These find their way into other animals that come in contact with cat crap. Once in this new host, the parasite changes and migrates, eventually settling as cysts in various tissues including the host's brain, where the real fun begins.Toxoplasma can only continue its life cycle and end up a happy adult in a cat's gut if it can find its way into a cat's gut, and the fastest way to a cat's gut, of course, is to be eaten by a cat. Incredibly, the parasite has evolved to help ensure that this occurs. For example, Toxoplasma infection alters rat behavior with surgical precision, making them lose their fear of (and even become sexually aroused by!) the smell of cats by hijacking neurochemical pathways in the rat's brain.



Of course, rats aren't the only animals thatToxoplasma ends up in. Around 1/3 of people on Earth carry these parasites in their heads. Since Toxoplasma has no trouble affecting rats, whose brains are similar in many ways to our own, scientists wonder how much the parasite affects the big, complex brains we love so much. For over a decade, researchers have investigated how this single-celled creature affects the way we think, finding that indeed, Toxoplasma alters our behavior and may even play a role in cultural differences beween nations.



The idea that this tiny protozoan parasite can influence our minds is old news. Some of the greatest science writers of our time have waxed poetic about how it sneaks its way into our brains and affects our personalities. Overall, though, the side effects of infection are thought to be minor and relatively harmless. Recently, however, evidence has been mounting that suggests the psychological consequences of infection are much darker than we once thought.



In 2003, E. Fuller Torrey of the Stanley Medical Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland his colleagues noted a link between Toxoplasmaand schizophrenia specifically, that women with high levels of the parasite were more likely to give birth to schizophrenics-to-be. The hypothesis given for this phenomenon is that while for most people who are infected,Toxoplasma has minor effects, for some, the changes are much more pronounced. The idea has gained traction - a later paper found, for example, that anti-psychotics worked just as well as parasite-killing drugs in restoring normal behaviors in infected rats, affirming the similarities between psychological disorders and Toxoplasmainfection.



Continuing to work with mental patients, scientists later discovered a link between suicide and parasite infection. But, of course, this link was in people who already have mental illness. Similarly, a study found thatcountries with high Toxoplasma infection rates also had high suicide rates - but the connection between the two was weak, and there was no direct evidence that the women who committed suicide were infected.



What scientists really wanted to understand is whether Toxoplasma affects people with no prior disposition to psychological problems. They were in luck: in Denmark, serum antibody levels for Toxoplasma gondiiwere taken from the children of over 45,000 women as a part of a neonatal screening study to better understand how the parasite is transmitted from mother to child. Since children do not form their own antibodies until three months after birth, the antibody levels reflect the mother's immune response. Thus the scientists were both able to passively screen women not only for infection status, but degree of infection, as high levels of antibodies are indicative of worse infections. They were then able to use the Danish Cause of Death Register, the Danish National Hospital Register and the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register to investigate the correlation between infection and self-directed violence, including suicide.



The results were clear. Women withToxoplasma infections were 54% more likely to attempt suicide - and twice as likely to succeed. In particular, these women were more likely to attempt violent suicides (using a knife or gun, for example, instead of overdosing on pills). But even more disturbing: suicide attempt risk was positively correlated with the level of infection. Those with the highest levels of antibodies were 91% more likely to attempt suicide than uninfected women. The connection between parasite and suicide held even for women who had no history of mental illness: among them, infected women were 56% more likely to commit self-directed violence.



While these results might seem frightening, they make sense when you think about howToxoplasma is known to affect our personalities. In 2006, researchers linkedToxoplasma infection to neuroticism in both men and women. Neuroticism - as defined by psychology - is the "an enduring tendency to experience negative emotional states," including depression, guilt and insecurity.The link between neuroticism and suicide is well established, thus if the parasite does make people more neurotic, it's not surprising that it influences rates of self-violence.



How does a parasite affect how we think? The authors suggest that our immune system may actually be to blame. When we are infected with a parasite like Toxoplasma gondii, our immune system goes on the offensive, producing a group of molecules called cytokines that activate various immune cell types. The trouble is, recent research has connected high levels of cytokines to depression and violent suicide attempts. The exact mechanism by which cytokines cause depression and other mental illnesses is poorly understood, but we do know they are able to pass the blood-brain barrier and alter neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine in the brain.



But the authors caution that even with the evidence, correlation is not causation. "Is the suicide attempt a direct effect of the parasite on the function of the brain or an exaggerated immune response induced by the parasite affecting the brain? We do not know," said Teodor T. Postolache, the senior author and an associate professor of psychiatry and director of the Mood and Anxiety Program at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, in a press release. "We can't say with certainty that T. gondii caused the women to try to kill themselves."



"In fact, we have not excluded reverse causality as there might be risk factors for suicidal behavior that also make people more susceptible to infection with T. gondii," Postolache explained. But given the strong link between the two, there is real potential for therapeutic intervention. "If we can identify a causal relationship, we may be able to predict those at increased risk for attempting suicide and find ways to intervene and offer treatment." The next step will be for scientists to affirm if and how these parasites cause negative thoughts. Not only could such research help target at-risk individuals, it may help scientists understand the dark neurological pathways that lead to depression and suicide that the sinister protozoan has tapped into. But even more disconcerting is that scientists predict that Toxoplasma prevalence is on the rise, both due to how we live and climate change. The increase and spread of this parasitic puppeteer cannot be good for the mental health of generations to come.

 

[jamahir]

Comrade, I don’t think it is you who is making these comments, I am convinced that it is actually the cat-induced toxoplasma parasites that has hijacked your mind and manipulating your brain into posting these extremely pro-cat rhetorics. Joking.

like i said before, i am most happy with that state.

and may you too be gondii-fied.

@BDforever - support needed in the cause of cat greatness.

Mind Control by Parasites

“Toxoplasma gondii is a common parasite found in the guts of cats; it sheds eggs that are picked up by rats and other animals that are eaten by cats. Toxoplasma forms cysts in the bodies of the intermediate rat hosts, including in the brain.

Since cats don't want to eat dead, decaying prey, Toxoplasma takes the evolutionarily sound course of being a "good" parasite, leaving the rats perfectly healthy. Or are they?

Oxford scientists discovered that the minds of the infected rats have been subtly altered. In a series of experiments, they demonstrated that healthy rats will prudently avoid areas that have been doused with cat urine. In fact, when scientists test anti-anxiety drugs on rats, they use a whiff of cat urine to induce neurochemical panic.

However, it turns out that Toxoplasma-ridden rats show no such reaction. In fact, some of the infected rats actually seek out the cat urine-marked areas again and again. The parasite alters the mind (and thus the behavior) of the rat for its own benefit.”

so how do you know it is not the cats altering this parasite for the express purpose of getting humans into serving the cat kind??

Continuing to work with mental patients, scientists later discovered a link between suicide and parasite infection. But, of course, this link was in people who already have mental illness. Similarly, a study found that countries with high Toxoplasma infection rates also had high suicide rates - but the connection between the two was weak, and there was no direct evidence that the women who committed suicide were infected.

What scientists really wanted to understand is whether Toxoplasma affects people with no prior disposition to psychological problems. They were in luck: in Denmark, serum antibody levels for Toxoplasma gondiiwere taken from the children of over 45,000 women as a part of a neonatal screening study to better understand how the parasite is transmitted from mother to child. Since children do not form their own antibodies until three months after birth, the antibody levels reflect the mother's immune response. Thus the scientists were both able to passively screen women not only for infection status, but degree of infection, as high levels of antibodies are indicative of worse infections. They were then able to use the Danish Cause of Death Register, the Danish National Hospital Register and the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register to investigate the correlation between infection and self-directed violence, including suicide.

The results were clear. Women with Toxoplasma infections were 54% more likely to attempt suicide - and twice as likely to succeed. In particular, these women were more likely to attempt violent suicides (using a knife or gun, for example, instead of overdosing on pills). But even more disturbing: suicide attempt risk was positively correlated with the level of infection. Those with the highest levels of antibodies were 91% more likely to attempt suicide than uninfected women. The connection between parasite and suicide held even for women who had no history of mental illness: among them, infected women were 56% more likely to commit self-directed violence.

but a very cat-unfriendly society like india ( most of it at least ) is the "suicide capital of the world", as declared by "world health organization" last year[1]...

New Delhi: Every 40 seconds, a suicide is committed somewhere in the world; one of every three suicides takes place in India. This is the finding of a decade-long study by the World Health Organisation or WHO.

The report released today says that an Indian commits suicide every two minutes. In 2012, WHO believes that 2.5 lakh people [ jamahir - that is 250,000 ] killed themselves in India. The government's estimates are significantly lower

and if that is for all social/economic strata, for one particular strata is a big suicide number spread over some years... this is from a 2010 article says[2]...

According to a report, 200,000 farmers have ended their lives since 1997 and it is said the rise in indebtedness is the root cause of farmer suicides.

india is the "dog capital of the world" with 35+ million dogs, and cats are almost extinct here ( ) which means negligible presence of this toxoplasma gondii parasite, and india is the "suicide capital of the world"... so this simple fact, which i pointed out in a previous post, defeats the foolish assertion that a cat-carried parasite moves people towards suicide... but does it also mean that some dog-carried parasites are moving indians to suicide??

suicides are majorly a social phenomenon driven by incorrect political systems, especially proved by the indian situation with its extremely capitalist economics and reactionary traditional culture... as a side-point, the presence of dogs in india enhances the problems via people adopting the habits and attitude of dogs... existence of dogs in society increases crime and disharmony.

in a proper socialist society, with no economic burdening of people, with proper human rights guaranteed by the system, with a communitarian/collectivist social culture, with enforced harmony, there wouldn't be need for people to suicide, unless three 40-foot anaconda snakes have surrounded your house.


from quoted link[3]...

In particular, humans with latent infections of the common protozoan parasite Toxoplasma gondii appear to experience a variety of long-term personality changes (Webster 2001). For instance, in infected women, intelligence, superego strength (rule-conscious, dutiful, conscientious, conforming, moralistic, staid and rule-bound) and affectothymia (warm, outgoing, attentive to others, kindly, easy-going, participating and likes people) are higher, while infected men have lower intelligence, superego strength and novelty-seeking (low novelty-seeking indicates rigid, loyal, stoic, slow-tempered and frugal personalities); both infected men and women have higher levels of guilt-proneness (they tend to be more apprehensive, self-doubting, worried, guilt prone, insecure, worrying and self-blaming; Flegr & Hrdy 1994; Flegr et al. 1996, 2000, 2003).

i again ask, what about prophet muhammad, lenin and muammar gaddafi, who all had cat companions??


the evil cats have already infected these tiny humans...

look, this human is already saying "yes, master"...

The increase and spread of this parasitic puppeteer cannot be good for the mental health of generations to come.

we are all puppets of those master puppeteers - chairman meow and his holy kind... unto them is our worship, from them is kindness, their ways we follow... amen.

----

[1] India is Suicide Capital: World Health Organisation (WHO)

[2] Peepli Live is not about farmers - NDTV Movies

[3] Can the common brain parasite, Toxoplasma gondii, influence human culture? | Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences

that's disgusting, but I get your hate for dogs.. they are, after all, haram

those russians are doing the right thing - dogs must be eradicated.

and dogs are haraam for proper reasons, not for a random declaration.

 

[mpk1988]

i again ask, why is dog-lover obama a genocider and cat-admirer gaddafi a humanitarian?? who is the psycho among the two?? whose behavior is sociopathic?? and which population in history mostly or partially died off because of being associated with cats??

misfortune strikes that society that doesn't respect the cat... for example, one of the reasons that the "black death" spread in medieval europe was that superstitious and insane priests had taken to having cats killed[1]...



most people who keep dogs as pets or feed on the streets ( like in india ), they adopt the behavior of the dog which would mean cruelty, callousness, gang behavior, aggression, noisiness and back-stabbing... this in turn means they are supporters of capitalism and reactionaryism, both of which are anti-human attitudes.

in india especially since 1998, cats have almost become extinct and dogs have increased to at least 35 million and have become a grave danger to humans, from gangs of eight to ten dogs dragging away four-year-old humans[2][3] and tearing them apart to criminal doctors using dogs to dispose of forcibly aborted female foetuses[4] in context of india's traditional culture of female foeticide

now despite the above happenings, the neo-rich software coolies in indian cities like bangalore don't bother what dogs are doing to humans and happily ( and insanely ) conduct dog shows every two months or so, and in bangalore there are dog-friendly restaurants too[5].

how can this happen?? are these people not mad?? and we can even predict which political party most of them support - bjp.

again i ask, india is mostly not a cat-friendly place, except generally for the two formerly communist-ruled states of west bengal and kerala... so why is this mostly anti-cat country full of sociopath tendencies and oppression and injustice?? did you know that between 1997 and 2010, 200,000 farmers/related-people suicided in india?? there are 70+ million homeless people in india who can barely afford two meals a day yet no dog goes hungry here plus the food wasted in religious ceremonies... who is being sociopathic here??

also, dogs carry deadly parasites.

lastly, the best way for a human society to achieve harmony is not only be socialist but also make the cities a compromise between humans and cats.

let us ignore those so-called scientists you refer to and answer these basic questions i put.



please stop being a nationalist, man... india is still stuck in pre-1947 era and its social, political and economic system cannot be logically defended.

read the above reply and then - cat admirers lenin/gaddafi and dog lovers obama/maneka-gandhi- choose.

---

[1] Killing the Cats

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/world/asia/india-stray-dogs-are-a-menace.html?_r=0

[3] Dog attacks a baby in india 2015 - YouTube

[4] Female foetuses in Beed fed to dogs to hide evidence | Daily Mail Online

[5] 13 Pet-Friendly Restaurants in Bangalore

What the hell does being a Nationalist have to do with the topic at hand or dog hatred bordering on insanity???
Also, I'm never going to stop being a nationalist. I don't understand why you asked me to stop being one.
Please suggest a system for managing 1.25 billion people? Don't say socialism since it's a cop out and a failed project. There's no example for successful socialism out there.

The fact that we are a functioning democracy with 1.25 billion people, where secularism thrives and one of the leading economies in the world is a big achievement. I (along with many friends) have experienced our economic growth. Starting from close to below poverty over the course of 2-3 generations, I can comfortably say that I'm a belong to an upper middle class household in India. All this through education and nothing else.

What need to be done is putting one's head down and working tirelessly towards the betterment of the country. Not living in a dreamland.

Finally, I do agree that the stray dog situation is out of control and needs to be clearly addressed. However, your insanity is just that (reserved to this subject of-course) and come across as the senseless ravings of a mad man.

To the OP: Sorry for going off-topic.

 

[russiarussia]

I love both. Also, the comparison between animals is nonsense.

 

[Nike]

@Reashot Xigwin i need your comments as avid cat lover here

 

[jamahir]

@Geralt - tagging you since you have thanked his post.

What the hell does being a Nationalist have to do with the topic at hand or dog hatred bordering on insanity???

look at your own post[1] on page 1 that was in response to my post... you got automatically angry at my mention of india's problems.

Also, I'm never going to stop being a nationalist. I don't understand why you asked me to stop being one.

you must, if you want the betterment of indian society... forget the state/establishment, think of the oppressed and suffering people.

for 68 years, the general indian society has largely being the most nationalist and isolationist society in the world, benefiting from the world's technological output but rejecting progressive external influence and suppressing internal progressive movement... the extreme nationalist sentiment has made the masses blind to the many ills in indian society... when the masses refuse to acknowledge the existence of problems, how can they remove them??

in 1947, india as a country was born as result of power transfer from the british and not through revolution like bolshevik russia or deep freedom struggle like algeria... this fact greatly influences the refusal of the general indian society to change from pre-1947 social/economic state because majority of the 1947 indian masses were neither politically participative nor intellectually questioning nor prepared for accepting a enlightened system... and this is why 68 years later, on the eve of 2016, india still has anti-human parents who think they have the right to murder their children for ridiculous socio-economic reasons.

Please suggest a system for managing 1.25 billion people?

a simple question is, did anyone force india at the outset in 1947 to have a population of 1.25+ billion by the eve of 2016, with at least 850 million being male and majority of them being useless??

if the "founding fathers" had designed or adopted a scientific political system, india wouldn't have the population problem... so why blame me or anyone else??

Don't say socialism since it's a cop out and a failed project. There's no example for successful socialism out there.

i don't know what "cop out" means but you are being uneducated by calling socialism a "failed project"... where did it fail and how??

what does my user-name and profile-picture signify??

what kind of person do you want to be by rejecting a simple and natural concept that calls for equality among humans and rightful freedoms and material facilities to all and call for every person to participate in societal development and in calling all humans to unite??

to mention just one thing, if not for socialism, your father or uncle wouldn't have had a safety net called "employees union" in their bank or factory or school teachering.

The fact that we are a functioning democracy

the indian political system derives from the british "representative democracy" which is not true democracy... so how can the indian state be a democracy??

the only true democracy in the modern word was the libyan jamahiriya, which was a direct-democracy system guided by socialism[2]... a unique system.

and "functioning" india may be for the last 68 years but one must ask, in what way??

where secularism thrives

1. sadly, "secularism" in indian context means "i will respect your religious nonsense if you respect my religious nonsense".

2. the party currently ruling at the center, bjp, is a reactionary/fascist party that is part of the sangh parivar, a movement propagating reactionary/brahminical hinduism... how is this a "thriving of secularism", unless you mean indian-style secularism that i described above?? we need not go into what the sangh parivar has done since 1947 and especially since bjp formed government last may... it would be laughable if we tried and there are dozens of threads on pdf pointing to bjp government's and party's misdeeds.

and one of the leading economies in the world is a big achievement.

in this "one of the leading economies in the world"...

1. 70+ million humans are homeless who can hardly get past two measly meals a day while the 35+ million dog population here doesn't go hungry.

2. late last year were reports of tea estate workers in darjeeling dying of hunger[3]... yes, the very estates that produce the highly valued darjeeling tea.

3. india has been declared "suicide capital of the world" last year by uno "world health organization"[4], with the number of suicides and 99 percent of these suicides are because of the wrong social/economic system.

4. the above suicide number is definitely under-reported because just between 1997 and 2010, 200,000 farmers suicided[5], again because of the wrong social/economic system... and this year, between january and october, 725 farmers suicided in maharashtra[6] and that is of course the under-reported number given by the central government... and we all remember the tragic death of late farmer gajendra singh in delhi last year.

5. the medical system is not free, even in government hospitals, which are pitifully run and have deaths occurring for ridiculous reasons like the case in 2012 of a five-day-old female child, premature born, who was removed from the incubator and disconnected from glucose supply by the hospital staff because her poor parents couldn't pay 200 rupees demanded by the hospital administration[7]... a murder really.

6. education system is not free and is mostly designed to set one up in jobs.

7. dowry murders, "honor killings" and disposal of female foetuses after foeticide ( indian culture ) through having the ever present dogs eat them[8]... are you aware of the female deficit in many indian states, for example haryana which has so few females that brides are being sought/bought/coming from other states like kerala[9] or even from other countries[10]??

8. malnutrition is rife in many parts of the country, including in modi's gujarat.

9. every year, 2000+ indians sell their kidneys for extreme socio-economic reasons[11].

10. most of the highest polluted cities in the world are in india.

11. the "indian space research organization" is one of the richest space agencies in the world, established 50+ years ago, having thousands of engineers and phd's among its ranks... despite that, isro has not launched a single human into space and has become a glorified satellite maker and launcher not allowed on the "international space station" program... on the other hand, private american companies like spacex and "blue origin", with small private money and employee strength of 1000 or lot less, have successfully either delivered luggage to the "international space station" or tested reusable rocket/human-capsule system[12], and these companies were established 15 years ago or less than that.

how can anyone with kindness and humanity not cry and despair at the real desperate situation here and the depravity of those wanting to preserve this unscientific, actually anti-human system??

what is the use of this great "one of the leading economies of the world" if it cannot provide its citizens with a safe, comfortable life and allow them the freedom to build and explore intellectual creativity??

so many problems india has and yet you decide to spit on socialist systems which provide so many facilities to their citizens... for example, in libyan jamahiriya, most things were either free or system-subsidized or at low cost... another example would be little communist cuba which has high rating in the uno-undp "human development index" scale despite being affected by collapse of ussr and this rating is lot higher than india... for year 2014 ranking[13], cuba was at number 44 and india was at number 135.

on the other hand, since a decade, india has become the largest importer of armaments in the world, with israel having india as its biggest customer... absolute waste of money... what is the internal system these weapons are intended to protect??

all this talk of "one of the leading economies in the world" is misleading of the reality.

I (along with many friends) have experienced our economic growth. Starting from close to below poverty over the course of 2-3 generations, I can comfortably say that I'm a belong to an upper middle class household in India.

if by chance you are doing job ( wage-slavery ), let us see you ditch your job and try to survive... india is the opposite of welfare state, politically and socially... let us see how many of your friends and relatives support you.

at the least, if you are in private industry, especially the software/services sector, let me see you start a "employees union" guided by socialism... that would be your real bragging point, not "i belong to upper middle class household".

All this through education and nothing else.

most education in india is nonsense... it hasn't made most of the hugely-produced-per-year graduated and phd'ed masses enlightened or liberated, and like n.r.narayanamurthy said some months ago, it hasn't made them technologically contributing in the 68 years[14].

what much of the indian education system is meant for is to sustain the capitalist-supporting establishment, the capitalist industry and to keep the masses in multi-generation poverty by keeping them attached to wage-slavery.

What need to be done is putting one's head down and working tirelessly towards the betterment of the country. Not living in a dreamland.

che guevara said "another world is possible"... if one cannot dream of a better present and future or least support the dreamers, one is really a parasite.

and to really "work tirelessly towards betterment of the country" would mean engaging in progressive political activism, not doing jobs and post-graduate college courses and supporting reactionary/capitalist governments at the center.

take my advise, go at least join the "aam aadmi party"... they too have a direct-democracy concept called "swaraj" and this too means changing the indian poltical system and would need modification to the indian constitution.

and don't spit on the real heroes of the past and the present... the sensible people of the world will laugh at you... why do you think the syrian patriots have sustained the international war to this end of the fifth year of the war?? do you think they want their country turned into india or afghanistan?? why do you think the venezuelan president declares his intention to protect the bolivarian revolution[15] against the cia-initiated counter-revolution?? by the way, the late commandante hugo chavez initiated the converting of venezeula into a decentralized, self-governing, direct-democracy communes system[16] in a adaptation of the libyan jamahiriya system... every sensible person would desire socialism and true democracy.

Finally, I do agree that the stray dog situation is out of control and needs to be clearly addressed. However, your insanity is just that (reserved to this subject of-course) and come across as the senseless ravings of a mad man.

so what do you suggest in doing about the 35+ million dog population in india which has been killing and mutilating humans for so long and has almost made the cats extinct??

i am asking this as a mad man of course[17].

------

[1] Toxoplasmosis in Asia

[2] Libya: From Africa’s Wealthiest Democracy to US-NATO Terror Haven

[3] http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c070.../death-hunger-stalk-indian-tea-estate-workers

[4] India is Suicide Capital: World Health Organisation (WHO)

[5] Peepli Live is not about farmers - NDTV Movies

[6] 725 farmers committed suicide in Maharashtra during Jan-Oct’15

[7] Jalandhar govt hospital lets infant die over Rs 200 : North, News - India Today

[8] Female foetuses in Beed fed to dogs to hide evidence | Daily Mail Online

[9] How brides from Kerala are transforming society in dusty towns of Haryana - Firstpost

[10] PUNJABI TADKA: Haryana's men are finding American brides | Daily Mail Online

[11] Need a kidney? Inside the world’s biggest organ market - Al Jazeera English

[12] Blue Origin Beats SpaceX In Landing Reusable Rocket | Popular Science

[13] 2014 Human Development Report (HDI) | UNDP

[14] no invention from India in 60 years: n. r. narayana murthy

[15] Maduro Announces Proposals to Renew the Revolution | News | teleSUR English

[16] Building Socialism from Below: The Role of the Communes in Venezuela | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

[17] Mandela and Gaddafi: the myth of the Saint and the Mad Dog - PravdaReport

 

[Styx]

@jamahir

every country has problems, much more so in the 3rd world, there are many nations far worse off than India with more poverty, dictatorships, starvation, and are plagued by all sorts of social ills. One's head will explode if they start getting angry about the state of the world

my advice, do what Gandhi said and be the change you want to see in the world

and as Aldous Huxley said... there is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving

spare my the "Libya was perfect" bs, no it was not, it wouldn't have fallen to outside intervention if the people truly loved it there.. socialism/communism only works on paper.. in the real world it has a 100% failure rate

your irrational hatred of dogs is not cool, makes me mad to see you calling for dogs to be exterminated

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

@Reashot Xigwin i need your comments as avid cat lover here

 

[SecularNationalist]

1. cats are not pets or toys but companions... they come in the first line of intelligent creatures on this world.

2. but i have lived with cats for years and so did millions of humans in history and cat admirers are the kindest of people... a dog lover like obomba launched genocidal wars against libya and syria... same with george bush jr and tony blair.

let us not legitimize the propaganda of dog lovers.

dude no offence but i don,t like cats.

 

[mpk1988]

@Geralt - tagging you since you have thanked his post.



look at your own post[1] on page 1 that was in response to my post... you got automatically angry at my mention of india's problems.



you must, if you want the betterment of indian society... forget the state/establishment, think of the oppressed and suffering people.

for 68 years, the general indian society has largely being the most nationalist and isolationist society in the world, benefiting from the world's technological output but rejecting progressive external influence and suppressing internal progressive movement... the extreme nationalist sentiment has made the masses blind to the many ills in indian society... when the masses refuse to acknowledge the existence of problems, how can they remove them??

in 1947, india as a country was born as result of power transfer from the british and not through revolution like bolshevik russia or deep freedom struggle like algeria... this fact greatly influences the refusal of the general indian society to change from pre-1947 social/economic state because majority of the 1947 indian masses were neither politically participative nor intellectually questioning nor prepared for accepting a enlightened system... and this is why 68 years later, on the eve of 2016, india still has anti-human parents who think they have the right to murder their children for ridiculous socio-economic reasons.



a simple question is, did anyone force india at the outset in 1947 to have a population of 1.25+ billion by the eve of 2016, with at least 850 million being male and majority of them being useless??

if the "founding fathers" had designed or adopted a scientific political system, india wouldn't have the population problem... so why blame me or anyone else??



i don't know what "cop out" means but you are being uneducated by calling socialism a "failed project"... where did it fail and how??

what does my user-name and profile-picture signify??

what kind of person do you want to be by rejecting a simple and natural concept that calls for equality among humans and rightful freedoms and material facilities to all and call for every person to participate in societal development and in calling all humans to unite??

to mention just one thing, if not for socialism, your father or uncle wouldn't have had a safety net called "employees union" in their bank or factory or school teachering.



the indian political system derives from the british "representative democracy" which is not true democracy... so how can the indian state be a democracy??

the only true democracy in the modern word was the libyan jamahiriya, which was a direct-democracy system guided by socialism[2]... a unique system.

and "functioning" india may be for the last 68 years but one must ask, in what way??



1. sadly, "secularism" in indian context means "i will respect your religious nonsense if you respect my religious nonsense".

2. the party currently ruling at the center, bjp, is a reactionary/fascist party that is part of the sangh parivar, a movement propagating reactionary/brahminical hinduism... how is this a "thriving of secularism", unless you mean indian-style secularism that i described above?? we need not go into what the sangh parivar has done since 1947 and especially since bjp formed government last may... it would be laughable if we tried and there are dozens of threads on pdf pointing to bjp government's and party's misdeeds.



in this "one of the leading economies in the world"...

1. 70+ million humans are homeless who can hardly get past two measly meals a day while the 35+ million dog population here doesn't go hungry.

2. late last year were reports of tea estate workers in darjeeling dying of hunger[3]... yes, the very estates that produce the highly valued darjeeling tea.

3. india has been declared "suicide capital of the world" last year by uno "world health organization"[4], with the number of suicides and 99 percent of these suicides are because of the wrong social/economic system.

4. the above suicide number is definitely under-reported because just between 1997 and 2010, 200,000 farmers suicided[5], again because of the wrong social/economic system... and this year, between january and october, 725 farmers suicided in maharashtra[6] and that is of course the under-reported number given by the central government... and we all remember the tragic death of late farmer gajendra singh in delhi last year.

5. the medical system is not free, even in government hospitals, which are pitifully run and have deaths occurring for ridiculous reasons like the case in 2012 of a five-day-old female child, premature born, who was removed from the incubator and disconnected from glucose supply by the hospital staff because her poor parents couldn't pay 200 rupees demanded by the hospital administration[7]... a murder really.

6. education system is not free and is mostly designed to set one up in jobs.

7. dowry murders, "honor killings" and disposal of female foetuses after foeticide ( indian culture ) through having the ever present dogs eat them[8]... are you aware of the female deficit in many indian states, for example haryana which has so few females that brides are being sought/bought/coming from other states like kerala[9] or even from other countries[10]??

8. malnutrition is rife in many parts of the country, including in modi's gujarat.

9. every year, 2000+ indians sell their kidneys for extreme socio-economic reasons[11].

10. most of the highest polluted cities in the world are in india.

11. the "indian space research organization" is one of the richest space agencies in the world, established 50+ years ago, having thousands of engineers and phd's among its ranks... despite that, isro has not launched a single human into space and has become a glorified satellite maker and launcher not allowed on the "international space station" program... on the other hand, private american companies like spacex and "blue origin", with small private money and employee strength of 1000 or lot less, have successfully either delivered luggage to the "international space station" or tested reusable rocket/human-capsule system[12], and these companies were established 15 years ago or less than that.

how can anyone with kindness and humanity not cry and despair at the real desperate situation here and the depravity of those wanting to preserve this unscientific, actually anti-human system??

what is the use of this great "one of the leading economies of the world" if it cannot provide its citizens with a safe, comfortable life and allow them the freedom to build and explore intellectual creativity??

so many problems india has and yet you decide to spit on socialist systems which provide so many facilities to their citizens... for example, in libyan jamahiriya, most things were either free or system-subsidized or at low cost... another example would be little communist cuba which has high rating in the uno-undp "human development index" scale despite being affected by collapse of ussr and this rating is lot higher than india... for year 2014 ranking[13], cuba was at number 44 and india was at number 135.

on the other hand, since a decade, india has become the largest importer of armaments in the world, with israel having india as its biggest customer... absolute waste of money... what is the internal system these weapons are intended to protect??

all this talk of "one of the leading economies in the world" is misleading of the reality.



if by chance you are doing job ( wage-slavery ), let us see you ditch your job and try to survive... india is the opposite of welfare state, politically and socially... let us see how many of your friends and relatives support you.

at the least, if you are in private industry, especially the software/services sector, let me see you start a "employees union" guided by socialism... that would be your real bragging point, not "i belong to upper middle class household".



most education in india is nonsense... it hasn't made most of the hugely-produced-per-year graduated and phd'ed masses enlightened or liberated, and like n.r.narayanamurthy said some months ago, it hasn't made them technologically contributing in the 68 years[14].

what much of the indian education system is meant for is to sustain the capitalist-supporting establishment, the capitalist industry and to keep the masses in multi-generation poverty by keeping them attached to wage-slavery.



che guevara said "another world is possible"... if one cannot dream of a better present and future or least support the dreamers, one is really a parasite.

and to really "work tirelessly towards betterment of the country" would mean engaging in progressive political activism, not doing jobs and post-graduate college courses and supporting reactionary/capitalist governments at the center.

take my advise, go at least join the "aam aadmi party"... they too have a direct-democracy concept called "swaraj" and this too means changing the indian poltical system and would need modification to the indian constitution.

and don't spit on the real heroes of the past and the present... the sensible people of the world will laugh at you... why do you think the syrian patriots have sustained the international war to this end of the fifth year of the war?? do you think they want their country turned into india or afghanistan?? why do you think the venezuelan president declares his intention to protect the bolivarian revolution[15] against the cia-initiated counter-revolution?? by the way, the late commandante hugo chavez initiated the converting of venezeula into a decentralized, self-governing, direct-democracy communes system[16] in a adaptation of the libyan jamahiriya system... every sensible person would desire socialism and true democracy.



so what do you suggest in doing about the 35+ million dog population in india which has been killing and mutilating humans for so long and has almost made the cats extinct??

i am asking this as a mad man of course[17].

------

[1] Toxoplasmosis in Asia

[2] Libya: From Africa’s Wealthiest Democracy to US-NATO Terror Haven

[3] http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c070.../death-hunger-stalk-indian-tea-estate-workers

[4] India is Suicide Capital: World Health Organisation (WHO)

[5] Peepli Live is not about farmers - NDTV Movies

[6] 725 farmers committed suicide in Maharashtra during Jan-Oct’15

[7] Jalandhar govt hospital lets infant die over Rs 200 : North, News - India Today

[8] Female foetuses in Beed fed to dogs to hide evidence | Daily Mail Online

[9] How brides from Kerala are transforming society in dusty towns of Haryana - Firstpost

[10] PUNJABI TADKA: Haryana's men are finding American brides | Daily Mail Online

[11] Need a kidney? Inside the world’s biggest organ market - Al Jazeera English

[12] Blue Origin Beats SpaceX In Landing Reusable Rocket | Popular Science

[13] 2014 Human Development Report (HDI) | UNDP

[14] no invention from India in 60 years: n. r. narayana murthy

[15] Maduro Announces Proposals to Renew the Revolution | News | teleSUR English

[16] Building Socialism from Below: The Role of the Communes in Venezuela | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

[17] Mandela and Gaddafi: the myth of the Saint and the Mad Dog - PravdaReport

That was not in response to your post on India's problem. I understand that you rant about it akin to an anarchist periodically and leave it be. Also, it was not it anger. It was just absurd to see you go crazy out of the blue on cats and vilify dos on a thread about parasites and spreading awareness about it.

The oppressed and suffering people come out the vicious circle by means of education, hard-work and help from so called "wage slaves" like me. I take it as my responsibility to do as much as I can to help uplift the citizens of my country. that is nationalism.

For 68 years, the nation has been suffering under a quasi-socialist policy implemented by a family that stills clings to nepotism and are nothing but an extension of the "Sahibs" of erst-while British Raj. They have actively promoted "Babu-dom" and birthed befuddling bureaucracy that hinders every progressive step and the move of India forward.
As far as Isolationist and Nationalistic goes, India has been far from that and that is without doubt one of the most stupid statements I have encountered from you or on the internet.
When were we ever isolationist?
Any isolation was from the western world (those capitalistic cronies you rue sooo very much) and yes that hindered technology transfer and resulted in the lost decades. Primary reason: us cozying up to socialist and communist regimes...
A reminder:
Handbook of India's International Relations - Google Books


and the Congress and it's cronies being in power with no lack of vision did no favour.. The only progress made with respect to foreign policy has been during the BJP regimes without question.
Ohh what sweet irony to see you striking that nail deep into your foot..
You cry for all the benefits "the stinking capitalists" have, yet refuse to move an inch from your stand and stay socialist. Ahh.. The hypocrisy..

The nationalist sentiment has only risen recently and is the primary driver of integration, relief activities and sense of people wanting to do something for their country.

I completely agree with you on the fact that Freedom was won the wrong way. the Gandhian way instead of a revolutionary upheaval. This did result in a muted socio-economic and political system where the "chalta hain" attitude works and the many evils that exist even today. However, I prefer to actively work against it and use education and capitalistic benefits as a tool to spread progress and the development of the country. To ward of backward practices. I don't just crib and cry dharna every time.

Who is blaming you for it? Do you think progress comes at the whim of a hat or the snap of a finger? China even with it's one child policy and quasi dictatorial control of power couldn't help but boom to 1.3 billion. Any policy like that would immediately result in the minority agitation and a quasi civil war which you will again decry and protest about. I'm all for forcible population control.

Where hasn't it failed and where is it successful? Name one country in the major economies or that is socialist?

STEPHEN MOORE: The death of socialism - Washington Times

LEt's talk about the glorious socialism in venezuela shall we? Oops.. sorry.. cluster **** and failure..
A Visual Guide to Venezuela's Failed Economy - All Emerging Markets
Venezuela's 'socialist paradise' turns into a nightmare: medical shortages claim lives as oil price collapses - Telegraph

Soviet Union?? Cluster **** and failure.

Socialism killed puerto rico too.. Ooops..
Like Greece, Puerto Rican debt is all about socialism

Lest we forget about Greece..
Greece is confirming that Margaret Thatcher was right about socialist governments - Business Insider

ohh.. and your flag and all the harping about Libya.. Guess what? When you have money it's easy to pay for everything.. When you run out of it.. Voila.. You're F**ked!!!
Do you have no concept of economics whatsoever? A welfare state is not possible until and unless we are self sufficient or have resources aplenty!!!
Survival of the fittest and entropy are natural. They lead to competition for space and stability. Hence, why we assume ideal scenarios in science and nature. Just like that "Socialism" is idealistic and not practical. So please don't ever bring science into talks about socialism and political systems.

Also, I have repeated many many times that quasi-socialism for the most developed economies is feasible. Not at all feasible for developing economies.

Ahh how I love wordplay? Just because it was derived from the British concept doesn't rob our political system of the fact that it is Democratic. You and me. We vote to elect our leaders!!! That is democracy. Lest we forget, India is a Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democratic, Republic.

Secularism is in no way perfect in India. Agreed. Religious nonsense from all parties are tolerated under it's guise.
It is a Hindu Nationalist front at the centre. A govt that can actually stem the rot that has affected us for 68 years and you keep pointing out so very vividly every time you get the chance. Yet you complain.. Ahh Irony..

Riots and communal clashes are down compared to when the previous govt was in power. Yet it's not secular enough. Ahh.. Irony

1. Homelessness : Correct. But it has reduced. Also,
Government plans 20 million houses for urban poor
Housing for All by 2022: Government plans 20 million houses for urban poor - The Hindu

‘Housing For All’: Centre identifies 305 cities, towns - Times of India

2,28,000 houses for urban poor cleared under Housing for All Mission

Yet.. The Govt is not good enough.

Yes. similarly, low wage workers die in China and middle east, the U.S etc too.. Highly tragic and regretful.

We also see high suicide rates in extremely developed countries like South Korea, Belgium, Japan etc.. It's a combination of problems that are not merely economic but deeply psychological. Crying socialism and anarchy will in no way contribute towards reducing that. It does NADA.. Zero!!!

I can list another 100 problems too.. For every country!! How is that going to change anything? It is progress through hard-work and education that helps in it.

You talk about ISRO and ask how many humans we have sent to space? How many countries have sent humans to space? Our private space research companies are starting to take off. The biggest irony here is you quoting the US based companies..


Whatever happened to the socialist countries. You don't want us to transition to something that will help us grow , yet you crib and cry endlessly. Want a list of active private space flight and research companies. Almost exclusively american!!!!
Do you see the hypocrisy??? It is the likes of you that are responsible for the mess and rot in the system.
You crib, cry whine and protest for the best. Do absolutely nothing and show capitalistic comforts and progress. Ask why we can't have it while actively hindering any change to achieve it!!! Pathetic!!

How do you think pollution levels go down? It comes at the end of the development chart.

and you still bring up those failed economies. Cuba.. lmao.. They now cosy up to the US. Millions of them run to US to escape their homes.. Just ask the Cubans from Miami.. Go talk to them about glorious Cuba and you won't come back with all your organs intact. Before the socialist crap in Cuba it was one the jewels of Latin America. Guess what?? It went down the drain and Castro himself admitted it in the 70's. A rich country goes down the drain after becomes socialist.. and you compare it to us.. A country looted and with close to nothing picking itself up after quasi socialistic nonsense???

Why in the world would I leave my Job?? What the **** is wrong with earning an honest wage? How retarded is it to be a burden to society, crib and cry and expect free meals? ..

Starting a union is a bragging point? Maybe to You.. For me being a responsible contributing member of the society is a thing of honour. My Dad and grandmother raising us up from poor economic condition is honourable and something to brag about. Not the shit you talk about. I spit on that junk. Start a union it seems. stupidity that is almost borderline insane..

Get a job and do something productive for our society.. Then and only then you can talk about anything that India does.. Then come talk to me.

Again.. the same rhetoric with nothing to support it.

I suggest culling of the stray dogs if appropriate funds are not met for dog shelters and appropriate owners not found. I say this since, it's practical. I don't live in a dreamland.