What's new

Tonbo Imaging products In the hands of the users

As long as you and your type keep on making up shit...why do you expect anyone of us to find such proof? We can go on for days asking for proof for the same issues with Chinese founders of defense companies....Oh I forget.....its all state run institutions in China lol..
That's the point there are 100% state owned, hence 100% Chinese right? Btw, what you don't know are the countless smaller private suppliers to these SOEs. For defense, China makes sure it is almost 100% Chinese controlled for strategic reasons, the same cannot be said about India since most of these private Indian companies are basically middlemen agents for foreign companies where they do some 'systems engg' aka sticker and screwdriver engineering.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The website also states they became an independent entity at 2008, back then their name was
even Serial Innovations India. You show us the ownership breakdown, prove they are still somehow outside owned after becoming independent, because the India based Sarnoff spin off wasnt even a success before the founder, and partner bought it out and became indepedent.. Right now, Im taking what's at face value.
I am asking you to prove it is Indian and now you are asking me to prove otherwise? The burden of proof does not lie with you now? You are the one originally claiming they were 'Indian'. Hence I asked you how do you know they are Indian, can you proof it. Until now nobody can tell me the ownership structure? :lol:


Until now no one can tell me the percentage of indigenous content and where the chips are made in. Their core technology is the CMOS chip and India has no modern fab, so where is it made in genius?:enjoy:. And the IP ownership, any cross licensing with SRI/Sarnoff? Is there a possibility they are paying royalty back to the original owners?



Yet, you still can't tell me the ownership structure, they did raise funds right, so each time they raised funds, the ownership dilutes, who owns it now? :enjoy:
 
I am asking you to prove it is Indian and now you are asking me to prove otherwise? The burden of proof does not lie with you now? You are the one originally claiming they were 'Indian'. Hence I asked you how do you know they are Indian, can you proof it. Until now nobody can tell me the ownership structure? :lol:

I told you, I am taking what is at face value.

And the IP ownership, any cross licensing with SRI/Sarnoff? Is there a possibility they are paying royalty back to the original owners?

Prove it? Tonbo only started to produce products after 2008, they bought 95% ownership back in 2003. The reason why the original stanford/sarnoff venture failed, and exited in 2003 to begin with is the possibility of any tech leakage.

The US denied the transfer of actuators to India, please prove to us that after 2003 this same company that has no connection to tonbo anywhere is repackaging it's products in India. Prove if there is any royalty fees when Tonbo is the one giving the license to manufacture it's products to Peru's state owned companies?


Yet, you still can't tell me the ownership structure, they did raise funds right, so each time they raised funds, the ownership dilutes, who owns it now? :enjoy:


So after the 95% ownership buyout, Artimans venture funds, invested in the company prove that they got any ownership at all, if so how much. I dont need to prove nothing, I am taking what is at facevalue, from what Tonbo themselves state, period.

Is Artiman, a venture fund company, the one you think they repackage outside designs from?

It's hilarious you Chinese are asking for transparency, when we have to find out even attack helicopters you bragged about being 100% indigenous wasnt even designed by you.
 
Last edited:
I told you, I am taking what is at face value.
So you you assumed they were Indian. Having 3 foreign directors and being a SRI/Sarnoff spin-off does not intrigue you at all? :lol:

Prove it? Tonbo only started to produce products after 2008, they bought 95% ownership back in 2003. The reason why the original stanford/sarnoff venture failed, and exited in 2003 to begin with is the possibility of any tech leakage.
1) Firstly, can you confirm to me the venture failed because of possible tech leakage?
2) Next, where is the production facility of Tonbo, they are basically housed in a single story crappy office shared with other company.
3) Who are 'they'? Can you prove to me 95% ownership was sold? Without any ownership structure, are you sure Sarnoff/SRI completely disposed off their holdings?
4) Sarnoff is an imaging specialist company, if tonbo was having any important and valuable technology, do you think they would have sold it off? Or maybe the reason they sold it off was because the venture was not profitable and then the local Indian manager took over and licensed some technology, 'system engineered' aka sticker and screwdriver ops american products and sold it to Indians marketed as INDIAN. This explains the lack of manufacturing facility and since the core technology was the CMOS ship, there are no fabs in India. It is impossible to MAKE IT IN INDIA genius.

The US denied the transfer of actuators to India, please prove to us that after 2003 this same company that has no connection to tonbo anywhere is repackaging it's products in India. Prove if there is any royalty fees when Tonbo is the one giving the license to manufacture it's products to Peru state owned companies?
What do you mean by actuators? Hydraulic? Pneumatic? Prove what? You suddenly blurt out something with no source and then tell me to prove it. Please express yourself in a coherent manner. What IP is being offered to Peru, and since when Peru had a CMOS fab genius?:rofl::rofl::rofl:




So after the 95% ownership buyout, Artimans venture funds, invested in the company prove that they got any ownership at all, if so how much. I dont need to prove nothing, I am taking what is at facevalue, from what Tonbo themselves state, period.

Is Artiman, a venture fund company, the one you think they repackage outside designs from?
Hanuman can buy it all I care, my question was what is the ownership structure, what is their IP portfolio and licensing structure and where are their products manufactured. You answered none of it and yet you shout it out as an INDIAN COMPANY.
 
1) Firstly, can you confirm to me the venture failed because of possible tech leakage?
3) Who are 'they'? Can you prove to me 95% ownership was sold? Without any ownership structure, are you sure Sarnoff/SRI completely disposed off their holdings?

Sarnoff had to wind up its India operations due to technology transfer is sues, as it was a direct source of imaging systems and cameras to the US defence. Lakshmikumar bought out 95% of the subsidiary along with his friend and partner Tim Mitchell.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...to-drones-arjun-tanks/articleshow/8883904.cms

Yes, they left in 2003.

4) Sarnoff is an imaging specialist company, if tonbo was having any important and valuable technology, do you think they would have sold it off? Or maybe the reason they sold it off was because the venture was not profitable and then the local Indian manager took over and licensed some technology, 'system engineered' aka sticker and screwdriver ops american products and sold it to Indians marketed as INDIAN. This explains the lack of manufacturing facility and since the core technology was the CMOS ship, there are no fabs in India. It is impossible to MAKE IT IN INDIA genius.


What did they sold, or even have in 2003? Most of Tonbo products are made after 2008, more specifically 2012, the 201 snapdragon you keep mentioning was produced starting in 2012, which most of their products are run on. So which US, or sarnoff products before 2003 is repackaged and sold after 2012? Prove it?

Yes, the US denied the transfer of simple actuators for Indian defence applications(mind you this isnt 2003, but couple of years ago), please go ahead and prove to us that somehow the US would allow some company to transfer, or repackage IP for thermal imaging equipment for UAVs, tanks, airplanes, etc.? Fact is, Tonbo makes most of it's money outside India(80% of it), selling, even giving out rights to manufacture it's designs to Peru, N. African countries, etc.

You make all these claims, yet, you're the one that have to prove.
 
Last edited:
Sarnoff had to wind up its India operations due to technology transfer is sues, as it was a direct source of imaging systems and cameras to the US defence. Lakshmikumar bought out 95% of the subsidiary along with his friend and partner Tim Mitchell.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...to-drones-arjun-tanks/articleshow/8883904.cms

Yes, they left in 2003.
You confirmed right? So how come Tonbo website is telling a different story, management buyout was only complete in 2008, the company was set up in 2003 as a subsidiary of Sarnoff and SRI. So which is which now?

http://tonboimaging.com/tonbo/about/

Again conflict of dates and does Serial Innovations = Tonbo? Still no ownership structure, still no IP portfolio etc, still no manufacturing facility.



What did they sold, or even have in 2003? Most of Tonbo products are made after 2008, more specifically 2012, the 201 snapdragon you keep mentioning was produced starting in 2012, which most of their products are run on. So which US, or sarnoff products before 2003 is repackaged and sold after 2012? Prove it?

Yes, the US denied the transfer of simple actuators for Indian defence applications(mind you this isnt 2003, but couple of years ago), please go ahead and prove to us that somehow the US would allow some company to transfer, or repackage IP for thermal imaging equipment for UAVs, tanks, airplanes, etc.? Fact is, Tonbo makes most of it's money outside India(80% of it), selling, even giving out rights to manufacture it's designs to Peru, N. African countries, etc.

You make all these claims, yet, you're the one that have to prove.
I believe this company is licensing components and doing a 'systems engineering' on this key components. So explain to me how Peru has got a CMOS fab now? If Peru can manufacture it, it only proves my point Tonbo is a sticker and screwdriver company. The only IP is how to assemble it and brand licensing, not the core CMOS technology, etc.
 
You confirmed right? So how come Tonbo website is telling a different story, management buyout was only complete in 2008, the company was set up in 2003 as a subsidiary of Sarnoff and SRI. So which is which now?

http://tonboimaging.com/tonbo/about/

Again conflict of dates and does Serial Innovations = Tonbo? Still no ownership structure, still no IP portfolio etc, still no manufacturing facility.


Sorry, I meant 2008. In 2012 they changed their name from Serial Innovations India, to Tonbo Imaging. Which US designs powered by 201 snapdragon processors, even if it's 2008, which designs are they repackaging before 2008?

Me and you can go on a endless loop, both saying the same things. I'm not going to buy that the US will allow any company to give out licenses to produces equipment for UAVs, tanks, etc. and then repackage that license to S. American, N. African countries when India was denied simpler equipment.
 
Sorry, I meant 2008. In 2012 they changed their name from Serial Innovations India, to Tonbo Imaging. Which US designs powered by 201 snapdragon processors, even if it's 2008, which designs are they repackaging before 2008?

Me and you can go on a endless loop, both saying the same things. I'm not going to buy that the US will allow any company to give out licenses to produces equipment for UAVs, tanks, etc. and then repackage that license to S. American, N. African countries when India was denied simpler equipment.
Wait wait, your article said he left Sarnoff in 2003 to create Serial but the Tonbo website said they were a JV in 2003. Which is which now genius? You are contradicting yourself now. Are they even the same company? I think you yourself is pretty confused about the ownership and origin of this company, how are you even sure about the tech origins. Until now no ownership structure, no manufacturing facility and best of all unknown IP portfolio. Sounds like a 'system engineering' company to me bhai. :lol:
 
Wait wait, your article said he left Sarnoff in 2003 to create Serial but the Tonbo website said they were a JV in 2003. Which is which now genius? You are contradicting yourself now. Are they even the same company? I think you yourself is pretty confused about the ownership and origin of this company, how are you even sure about the tech origins. Until now no ownership structure, no manufacturing facility and best of all unknown IP portfolio. Sounds like a 'system engineering' company to me bhai. :lol:


Actually, article has no confusion with tonbo imagings site. I mixed two dates.

In 2003 he came to India to head Sarnoff Co India operations. This operation failed, sarnoff left because of possible tech leakage, etc. and he and his partner bought out 95% of it 2008. This is stated in the article, that date was given in tonbos site, 2008. You still haven't showed the starnoff IP tonbo is repackaging. You still havent proved stanoff has any role after they left, and the operations buyout in 2008.

Who is also going to believe when the US has denied simpler tech to India for defence applications, will allow a company to repackage IP from the US and sell it to S. American, N. African countries, some of which are intended for UAVs, tanks, etc? Especially, before signing pacts like the MTCR.
 
Actually, article has no confusion with tonbo imagings site. I mixed two dates.

In 2003 he came to India to head Sarnoff Co India operations. This operation failed, sarnoff left because of possible tech leakage, etc. and he and his partner bought out 95% of it 2008. This is stated in the article, that date was given in tonbos site, 2008. You still haven't showed the starnoff IP tonbo is repackaging. You still havent proved stanoff has any role after they left, and the operations buyout in 2008.

Who is also going to believe when the US has denied simpler tech to India for defence applications, will allow a company to repackage IP from the US and sell it to S. American, N. African countries, some of which are intended for UAVs, tanks, etc? Especially, before signing pacts like the MTCR.
Ok, let's assume you are correct but still until now you can't tell me

1) Their ownership structure
2) Their IP portfolio and cross licensing
3) Their manufacturing facility

If US can sell you Poseidons, I don't see why they can't sell you the imaging chips, you are not under sanctions like China, you are only under scrutiny for rocket and nuclear related technology.
 
OK OK they are Indian made...now stop fighting
 
For those of you claiming Tonbo isn' Indian, most startups in India are registered abroad as it is very difficult to acquire Indian startups by foreign firms. I could quote an example, this was written by the CEO of Avaz Inc Ajit Narayanan

"Till about 2 or 3 years ago, I thought offshore accounts were for the super-wealthy to hide their ‘black money’. My opinion changed when I was advised to open my own offshore account in 2014. Over the next year (2018), I have been advised to open even more offshore accounts, including one in Cayman Islands. Most of my VC investors have put money into my company through Mauritius offshore entities. So now I am much more knowledgeable about why these entities exist, and how they have become a routine part of doing business.

As it applies to my situation, there were 3 or 4 major advantages to having seemingly-complex offshore legal/financial structures for a start-up. In this answer, I am going to describe them without going into the specifics of how my own company is set up; so please read and interpret with that caveat.

When I first set up my start-up (Invention Labs), it was headquartered and registered in India. We had all of the financial and regulatory approvals needed, and very honestly, I did not find any negative to doing business in India. We got Government grants, loans, orders and approvals, and grew in India as a successful and increasingly profitable enterprise, without having to pay a single rupee in bribes.

In April 2014, I decided to raise venture capital; and when you raise venture capital, you are entering into an implicit agreement with your investors that you are growing your company to give them an “exit” — either as an IPO or as an acquisition that will result in a financial windfall for all concerned. At this juncture, a momentous event happened in the startup ecosystem in India, following which my lawyers strongly encouraged me to raise VC money into an offshore entity in the US, rather than my Indian company. The event which triggered this advice was the acquisition of Little Eye Labs by Facebook in January 2014. (Note: the following paragraph is based on 3rd-party sources; I do not personally know the inside details.)

Little Eye Labs (LEL) was a small-ish Indian-incorporated startup doing some pioneering work in app analytics. Facebook bought them for about $10M, which is pretty much a rounding error in their M&A budget. However, buying this little startup resulting in Facebook suddenly coming face-to-face with the enormous complexity and opacity of Indian corporate law. Primarily, there were extremely vexing taxation issues related to the acquisition of Indian assets by a foreign buyer. The Government of India wanted to ensure that these assets were properly valued, and therefore requested Facebook to disclose the technology behind LEL’s product. My sources told me that by this time, Facebook had already started integrating that technology into its own products; and the Government apparently demanded access to Facebook’s code-base in order to determine if Facebook was paying LEL a fair value!

The news in the startup grapevine was that Facebook then internally decided that they would never acquire an Indian startup again. If LEL had been set up as an offshore entity, on the other hand, that would mean that an American company was acquiring a non-Indian asset, and hence that acquisition would not come under the jurisdiction of Indian law — greatly reducing the compliance risk and cost.

I was further encouraged to set up an offshore entity by an American angel investor in my company, who had burnt his fingers with an investment into Redbus. When Redbus was acquired by Naspers in late 2013, the process for foreign investors to exit by selling their shares to Naspers was a nightmare. This investor told me, “We had 2 top accounting firms and 2 top law firms advising us; but each of them had a different interpretation of the taxation laws, so we did not have any clarity on how much money we had to pay as tax. Eventually we ended up paying the most conservative tax rate - and we still don’t know if we overpaid or underpaid.” He went on to tell me that he, too, would never invest in an Indian-domiciled startup again.

So tax and compliance involved in sales of assets or M&A are two major reasons that offshore entities have grown in attraction to Indian startups. Many leading Indian startups today, including Freshworks and Flipkart, are structured as offshore entities. Lawyers today recommend that any Indian startup that’s building IP set itself up as a US company with an Indian subsidiary rather than an Indian company.

When I decided to set up a business in China in late 2015, I had another huge round of legal learnings. This time there were even more complexities; if there is a country that has a financial regulatory system that’s even more complex than India, it has to be China! Many business activities there, including publishing apps and creating websites, need licenses from the Government; and it is often simply not possible for foreign-owned companies to obtain these licenses. So you would set up a joint venture (or a “variable-interest entity”) with a Chinese-owned company, instead of directly starting a company in China. In addition, while it’s very easy to put money into China, it’s a huge headache getting money out: one of the very few legal ways to do so is by making a profit and declaring a dividend to get the money out.

However, this means that profits are then taxed twice: once in China as income tax, and once as a tax on dividends. So promoters and investors take a 10% cut in their final RoI because of their legal structure and presence.

Lawyers in China have found a neat solution around this, though; and that’s through the establishment of a Hong Kong holding entity (which is an offshore entity per Chinese law). Because China and Hong Kong have preferential tax agreements, a Hong Kong investor into a Chinese company is subject to a much lower rate of tax than an American or Indian investor would be. So it’s typical to set up a Hong Kong office, which meets the domiciliary requirements to be classified as a HK entity, and then invest into a Chinese business through that entity.

However, this is still not enough to make mergers and acquisitions painless in China, because the acquisition of a HK entity still involves capital gains tax that investors will have to pay. So there is a final twist of ingenuity in the legal structuring: you set up an entity in Cayman Islands, which owns the HK company, and which is funded by the promoters and investors. Now if a Facebook or Microsoft or Google wants to acquire the China company, they do not need to have any transactions either in China or in Hong Kong, or get any approvals from the Chinese government; they can just purchase the Cayman company, and thereby indirectly acquire the assets in China.

The cost of all this legal and regulatory compliance is not high for a well-funded startup — possibly in the range of $25,000 to $50,000 per year. The upside in case of a multimillion dollar exit is easily ten times that amount. So it’s not just the billionaires who have offshore entities; it’s also the entrepreneurs who have startups valued in the millions of dollars (i.e. 90% of all startups that have raised capital).

If you’re running a startup, planning for tax efficiency and capital efficiency becomes a matter of financial prudence that investors will push you to do. Having the “wrong” structure for your entity can mean a substantially lower return on investment for your investors and yourself. Every new round of investors you raise money from will ask you why you have a tax-inefficient structure. So having a holding company based in Mauritius or Cayman is another tick-box to make sure your prospective investors have their tax compliance optimized and covered.

Adding even more bizarre flavor to this is that every few years, smart lawyers and accountants come up with even more complicated structures, in a cat-and-mouse game with regulators in emerging markets like India and China. As loopholes get closed, and laws get changed, in order to increase tax flows into these countries and maintain control over forex outflows and inflows, there’s greater and greater complexity in how structures are built to exploit new loopholes. And honestly, I don’t see an end to this kind of “financial engineering” anytime in the near future."
 
Ok, let's assume you are correct but still until now you can't tell me

1) Their ownership structure
2) Their IP portfolio and cross licensing
3) Their manufacturing facility

If US can sell you Poseidons, I don't see why they can't sell you the imaging chips, you are not under sanctions like China, you are only under scrutiny for rocket and nuclear related technology.

I don't know about the patents used that are yet to be processed but a quick patent search at the Office of controller general of patents designs and trademarks website gives some 218 published patents in the name of Tonbo Imaging.



Power Of I 2016
Tonbo Imaging - A Strong Defence
Why top defence agencies across the world have their eyes set on Bengaluru-based Tonbo Imaging

Kripa Mahalingam

c9b6ef7e1c6fe50beb4fe6c3447f8ebf_385_650.jpg

RA Chandroo

On target: Tonbo’s advanced vision systems have fetched it multi-million dollar contracts from agencies such as DARPA


After working for five years in the US after completing his education, Arvind Lakshmikumar and his wife decided it was time to come home; and so, in 2004, they did. After a short stint at Honeywell, Lakshmikumar was back then heading technology and operations at the Indian arm of the US-based Sarnoff Corporation, which specialised in vision, video and semiconductor technology innovations. In his stint in the US, he was the director for a number of international military programmes (DARPA, US Army, NSF and DRDO) and lead subcontractor on multiple next-generation military programmes. Lakshmikumar built various imaging systems for Boeing and Lockheed Martin and was part of programmes such as Future Combat Systems, which made the US Army combat-ready for modern warfare. “When we came back to India, we looked at all the companies in the defence sector. They were mostly using screwdriver technology,” explains Lakshmikumar, CEO, Tonbo Imaging. In other words, they were buying products from Europe and the US or Israel and putting them together as there was no ecosystem to build products from the ground up. “There is no harm in buying from companies overseas as long as you have access to the best technology and control over the same. But unfortunately, when you buy this way, you don’t have access to the best technology and every time you face a problem, you have to go back to the seller and are subject to their whims,” adds Lakshmikumar.



1464845067.jpg

Visionary: Arvind Lakshmikumar capitalised on the talent inherited from a key acquisition

This is why Lakshmikumar and his team decided to set up Tonbo Imaging after completing a management buyout of the Indian arm of Sarnoff Corporation, which in turn decided to divest its Indian operations in 2008, giving Tonbo everything except its products, which were protected by IP restrictions. Thomas M Strat, who was a programme manager and assistant director at DARPA — an agency of the US Department of Defence that is responsible for the development of emerging technologies to be used by the military — and is now an advisor to Tonbo, thinks it was a smart move by Lakshmikumar and his team. “Sarnoff had some capable scientists and engineers at its Bengaluru facility. If you are starting a company, there is nothing better than to have top-notch talent working for you. This has been one of the primary reasons for Tonbo’s success.” Explains Lakshmikumar, “We bought out their assets and shares in India but decided to build the products from scratch. We chose defence as our core market because as far as night-vision technology was concerned, Indian defence was lagging behind.”




1464845604.jpg

The team at Tonbo Imaging has strong domain expertise, which it has successfully leveraged to build best-in-class products at competitive prices
- Ramesh Radhakrishnan
Partner, Artiman Ventures


Adding that the country was till then dependent on PSUs and defence labs — which had little incentive to build and commercialise core technology — for such products, Lakshmikumar explains how his company decided to structure itself like a Valley products company. “We decided that our core focus would be cutting-edge night-vision technology for soldiers, land and naval systems, weapons and aerial platforms. Imaging and interpretation strategic electronics technology is what we decided to build.” Tonbo soon realised that it wouldn’t be able to compete with the big guys such as Lockheed Martin or Raytheon by building a similar model. After all, most imaging and military equipment companies are vertically integrated because there was no ecosystem in place when they started out. “These companies had to invest a lot more in infrastructure and technology. Luckily for us, we were able to ride the consumer electronics ecosystem. Today, the electronics that goes into your smartphone is more powerful than what goes into a 155 mm Howitzer gun. So, we leveraged this ecosystem and built solutions for the market. This way, we didn’t have to set up large manufacturing facilities,” explains Lakshmikumar.




1464846055.jpg

In India, we have worked with eight to 10 OEMs and found Tonbo to be the best. The company is very quick when it comes to product development
- Mridul Sharma
National manager, special product group, AIMIL



Local Muscle
So far, the company has set up a pretty strong supply chain, which has in turn helped it leverage the power of contract manufacturing. “Our model is something like Apple’s, where we control the IP and supply chain, and own the customer. Suppliers must feel that you are the company they should bet on. Everything else is unimportant. By outsourcing the manufacturing process and controlling prices, we can offer competitive rates and still make a 50% gross margin in this business,” Lakshmikumar says. The company has set up a contract manufacturing facility in Kochi and manages to offer products 50% cheaper than its foreign competitors. About 80% of its revenue comes from exports to the US, Europe and Singapore, where it competes with Thales and Sagem, two of the biggest players in this space. “The team at Tonbo Imaging has strong domain expertise, which it has successfully leveraged to build best-in-class products at competitive prices,” says Ramesh Radhakrishnan, partner, Artiman Ventures, which invested in the firm in 2012. “The company is able to leverage innovative designs in micro-optics, low-power electronics and real-time imaging processing to design imaging systems for real-world applications.”




1464846186.jpg

If you are starting a company, there is nothing better than to have top-notch talent working for you. This has been one of the primary reasons for Tonbo’s success
- Thomas Strat
Former assistant director of DARPA



But for the start-up to gets its footing in the Indian defence space, the validation had to come from outside. “Defence is a complex business for a start-up to get into in India. Customers here started adopting our products only after we sold them outside. For us, the objective was to get cracking on a few international sales; the local attitude would change thereafter,” explains Lakshmikumar. He says that traditionally, all military programmes used to either buy global or buy and then make in India, where PSUs such as Bharat Electronics would manufacture products after technology transfers. But all that is now changing, with the defence ministry updating the defence procurement procedures and introducing a new category for locally made products, called indigenously designed developed and manufactured (IDDM) items; these will be a priority during procurement. There are two subcategories within this segment: one that calls for 40% of the content to be sourced locally when the product is designed in India and the second that calls for 60% of the content to be sourced locally when the product is not designed in India.




1464846315.jpg

A lot of start-ups fail when they make the transition from concept to commercialisation, but Tonbo had it all figured out
- Anand Ladsariya
Angel investor



“So, if there is an Indian manufacturer who indigenously designs, develops and manufactures for a programme, he will be the highest in the food chain. Our products are 95% indigenously built, since the only thing we source from outside are detectors; optics, electronics, software and IP are all built by us. This allows us to sit with the big boys at the table,” he says. Apart from being prime bidders, Tonbo also works with larger players such as L&T, Bharat Electronics, Norway’s Kongsberg (which makes the largest remote-controlled weapons platform) and Greece’s Hellenic Systems (which supplies Howitzer guns to Indian defence). IDDM allows Tonbo to move from smaller projects to building for larger, $500-million contracts. But winning contracts is one thing — execution is a whole another deal. So, the company is now looking to raise its next round of funding of around $30 million-50 million and is in talks with several investors.


Its first infusion had come in the form of angel funding from Mumbai Angels in 2011. “We were the first investors in the company. What impressed me back then was the fact even at that early stage, the team was very professional,” says Anand Ladsariya, angel investor and a member of the Mumbai Angels. “They had domain expertise and innovation was their strength, but the key was that they were able to articulate their vision about how they would leverage that innovation to build a successful commercial business. A lot of start-ups fail when they make the transition from concept to commercialisation, but Tonbo had it all figured out.” Ladsariya rates Tonbo as one of the top three investments of the 80-odd he has made so far. Tonbo followed the angel round of funding with its first institutional round of funding from Artiman Ventures in 2012. “We met in 2011 and were very impressed by the team at Tonbo and the products they were building. We waited for a year to see some traction before we invested. We are excited to be a part of the growth story of a world-class company like Tonbo,” says Radhakrishnan.


1464846675.jpg

Aided by a strong supply chain, Tonbo is churning out products which are 50% cheaper than competition

Night vision, by day

Among the other ideas the founders were sure about was the conviction that the company wouldn’t make India-centric products but those that would find a place in the global market. Tonbo builds advanced imaging and sensor systems that allow soldiers to see during night and day and through dense smoke, dust, fog and foliage. This is possible through the use of fusion technology that combines thermal and visual images into a single video feed, giving soldiers a real-time interpretation of the battlefield. For instance, its enhanced vehicle imaging platform provides a comprehensive 360-degree view of the landscape to the driver and his crew during all weather conditions. “The imaging systems that go on top of guns, UAVs or into weapons systems are actually cameras in some form or the other. For years, the design process for cameras has not changed: it still includes a single sensor, a single lens and an electronics package. But in nature, be it humans or insects, all creatures have multiple eyes that help us see the environment better. So, we decided to incorporate multiple apertures while designing our imaging systems,” he explains. In fact, Tonbo means dragonfly in Japanese, and dragonflies are known to have 40,000 eyes, the compound structure of which allows them to sense things in really low-light conditions even at lightning speeds.


“We develop the product according to the application. For instance, if a solider wants to see long-range in a battlefield or you have to put a camera on a UAV, you have to correct for turbulence. Then, we change the lens design, use consumer electronics for processing and thus create a powerful imaging system. We are the only ones to build night-vision platforms of this sort and this allows us to build very low-cost night-vision equipment,” says the proud founder. No wonder, then, that it is the only Indian company on every electro-optics and night-vision programme of the Indian MoD. Apart from being part of the Indian navy’s modernisation program, Tonbo, which has an order book of $50 million executable over the next 18 months, is also the electro-optics supplier of choice in the Indian army’s $10-billion future infantry combat vehicle programme.

“We started working with Tonbo in 2011. We supply thermal sensors to OEMs, who then system integrate it into the cameras or imaging systems and supply that to their military clients. In India, we have worked with eight to 10 OEMs and found Tonbo to be the best. The company is very quick when it comes to product development,” says Mridul Sharma, national manager, special product group, AIMIL, which develops Indian OEMs for French company ULIS, the second largest manufacturer of uncooled infrared detectors in the world. “The company has been able to successfully compete with global players with lesser resources in terms of capital in an intensely competitive market. You have to be extremely smart to do that.” Customers vouch for those smarts, too. “I have worked with Arvind in the past, when I was serving as a commander with NATO, and later as a customer for Tonbo’s surveillance systems. He has built an enviable repertoire of imaging systems addressing guns, tanks and missiles,” says General Lucas Arnold, chairman of US security firm Chevronstar.

The company has 85 engineers on its core technology team and another 15 in sales and marketing. While Tonbo has thus far managed to retain most of its talent, it couldn’t hold back one of its earliest recruits Binny Bansal, who joined the company straight out of IIT and went on to start Flipkart with his college mate. “He was a regular nerd who did coding before he left us. We wonder if he was the smart one: look at where he is and where we are,” laughs Lakshmikumar. He adds that the only way to scale a business is by hiring people smarter than yourself, and to his credit, he does seem to have an eye for spotting good talent. “Leadership is critically important to keep a start-up going because starting a business is tough. Arvind has the right balance of technical chops and leadership abilities. He has lined up investments and landed contracts while retaining top-notch talent,” says Strat. Apart from building cutting-edge products and platforms for the defence sector, the company is also looking at sectors such as transportation and consumer IoT, where its products can be leveraged.

Tonbo is also working on technologies that it can leverage in the coming decade. “We are working on a pilot project with Tesla to see how night-vision technology can be integrated seamlessly with display,” reveals Lakshmikumar. Little wonder, he has big plans for Tonbo Imaging. “We want to make Tonbo the single largest electro-optics firm in the world. We want to control the algorithms, the platforms and the customers.” In doing so, Tonbo is looking at a multifold increase in revenue, in turn, giving the start-up a pop in its valuation. Lakshmikumar, though, sounds modest. “Valuation is in the eye of the beholder. All we want to create is a business with intrinsic value,” he smiles.

https://www.outlookbusiness.com/specials/power-of-i_2016/tonbo-imaging-a-strong-defence-2797
 
I don't know about the patents used that are yet to be processed but a quick patent search at the Office of controller general of patents designs and trademarks website gives some 218 published patents in the name of Tonbo Imaging.



Power Of I 2016
Tonbo Imaging - A Strong Defence
Why top defence agencies across the world have their eyes set on Bengaluru-based Tonbo Imaging

Kripa Mahalingam

c9b6ef7e1c6fe50beb4fe6c3447f8ebf_385_650.jpg

RA Chandroo

On target: Tonbo’s advanced vision systems have fetched it multi-million dollar contracts from agencies such as DARPA


After working for five years in the US after completing his education, Arvind Lakshmikumar and his wife decided it was time to come home; and so, in 2004, they did. After a short stint at Honeywell, Lakshmikumar was back then heading technology and operations at the Indian arm of the US-based Sarnoff Corporation, which specialised in vision, video and semiconductor technology innovations. In his stint in the US, he was the director for a number of international military programmes (DARPA, US Army, NSF and DRDO) and lead subcontractor on multiple next-generation military programmes. Lakshmikumar built various imaging systems for Boeing and Lockheed Martin and was part of programmes such as Future Combat Systems, which made the US Army combat-ready for modern warfare. “When we came back to India, we looked at all the companies in the defence sector. They were mostly using screwdriver technology,” explains Lakshmikumar, CEO, Tonbo Imaging. In other words, they were buying products from Europe and the US or Israel and putting them together as there was no ecosystem to build products from the ground up. “There is no harm in buying from companies overseas as long as you have access to the best technology and control over the same. But unfortunately, when you buy this way, you don’t have access to the best technology and every time you face a problem, you have to go back to the seller and are subject to their whims,” adds Lakshmikumar.



1464845067.jpg

Visionary: Arvind Lakshmikumar capitalised on the talent inherited from a key acquisition

This is why Lakshmikumar and his team decided to set up Tonbo Imaging after completing a management buyout of the Indian arm of Sarnoff Corporation, which in turn decided to divest its Indian operations in 2008, giving Tonbo everything except its products, which were protected by IP restrictions. Thomas M Strat, who was a programme manager and assistant director at DARPA — an agency of the US Department of Defence that is responsible for the development of emerging technologies to be used by the military — and is now an advisor to Tonbo, thinks it was a smart move by Lakshmikumar and his team. “Sarnoff had some capable scientists and engineers at its Bengaluru facility. If you are starting a company, there is nothing better than to have top-notch talent working for you. This has been one of the primary reasons for Tonbo’s success.” Explains Lakshmikumar, “We bought out their assets and shares in India but decided to build the products from scratch. We chose defence as our core market because as far as night-vision technology was concerned, Indian defence was lagging behind.”




1464845604.jpg

The team at Tonbo Imaging has strong domain expertise, which it has successfully leveraged to build best-in-class products at competitive prices
- Ramesh Radhakrishnan
Partner, Artiman Ventures


Adding that the country was till then dependent on PSUs and defence labs — which had little incentive to build and commercialise core technology — for such products, Lakshmikumar explains how his company decided to structure itself like a Valley products company. “We decided that our core focus would be cutting-edge night-vision technology for soldiers, land and naval systems, weapons and aerial platforms. Imaging and interpretation strategic electronics technology is what we decided to build.” Tonbo soon realised that it wouldn’t be able to compete with the big guys such as Lockheed Martin or Raytheon by building a similar model. After all, most imaging and military equipment companies are vertically integrated because there was no ecosystem in place when they started out. “These companies had to invest a lot more in infrastructure and technology. Luckily for us, we were able to ride the consumer electronics ecosystem. Today, the electronics that goes into your smartphone is more powerful than what goes into a 155 mm Howitzer gun. So, we leveraged this ecosystem and built solutions for the market. This way, we didn’t have to set up large manufacturing facilities,” explains Lakshmikumar.




1464846055.jpg

In India, we have worked with eight to 10 OEMs and found Tonbo to be the best. The company is very quick when it comes to product development
- Mridul Sharma
National manager, special product group, AIMIL



Local Muscle
So far, the company has set up a pretty strong supply chain, which has in turn helped it leverage the power of contract manufacturing. “Our model is something like Apple’s, where we control the IP and supply chain, and own the customer. Suppliers must feel that you are the company they should bet on. Everything else is unimportant. By outsourcing the manufacturing process and controlling prices, we can offer competitive rates and still make a 50% gross margin in this business,” Lakshmikumar says. The company has set up a contract manufacturing facility in Kochi and manages to offer products 50% cheaper than its foreign competitors. About 80% of its revenue comes from exports to the US, Europe and Singapore, where it competes with Thales and Sagem, two of the biggest players in this space. “The team at Tonbo Imaging has strong domain expertise, which it has successfully leveraged to build best-in-class products at competitive prices,” says Ramesh Radhakrishnan, partner, Artiman Ventures, which invested in the firm in 2012. “The company is able to leverage innovative designs in micro-optics, low-power electronics and real-time imaging processing to design imaging systems for real-world applications.”




1464846186.jpg

If you are starting a company, there is nothing better than to have top-notch talent working for you. This has been one of the primary reasons for Tonbo’s success
- Thomas Strat
Former assistant director of DARPA



But for the start-up to gets its footing in the Indian defence space, the validation had to come from outside. “Defence is a complex business for a start-up to get into in India. Customers here started adopting our products only after we sold them outside. For us, the objective was to get cracking on a few international sales; the local attitude would change thereafter,” explains Lakshmikumar. He says that traditionally, all military programmes used to either buy global or buy and then make in India, where PSUs such as Bharat Electronics would manufacture products after technology transfers. But all that is now changing, with the defence ministry updating the defence procurement procedures and introducing a new category for locally made products, called indigenously designed developed and manufactured (IDDM) items; these will be a priority during procurement. There are two subcategories within this segment: one that calls for 40% of the content to be sourced locally when the product is designed in India and the second that calls for 60% of the content to be sourced locally when the product is not designed in India.




1464846315.jpg

A lot of start-ups fail when they make the transition from concept to commercialisation, but Tonbo had it all figured out
- Anand Ladsariya
Angel investor



“So, if there is an Indian manufacturer who indigenously designs, develops and manufactures for a programme, he will be the highest in the food chain. Our products are 95% indigenously built, since the only thing we source from outside are detectors; optics, electronics, software and IP are all built by us. This allows us to sit with the big boys at the table,” he says. Apart from being prime bidders, Tonbo also works with larger players such as L&T, Bharat Electronics, Norway’s Kongsberg (which makes the largest remote-controlled weapons platform) and Greece’s Hellenic Systems (which supplies Howitzer guns to Indian defence). IDDM allows Tonbo to move from smaller projects to building for larger, $500-million contracts. But winning contracts is one thing — execution is a whole another deal. So, the company is now looking to raise its next round of funding of around $30 million-50 million and is in talks with several investors.


Its first infusion had come in the form of angel funding from Mumbai Angels in 2011. “We were the first investors in the company. What impressed me back then was the fact even at that early stage, the team was very professional,” says Anand Ladsariya, angel investor and a member of the Mumbai Angels. “They had domain expertise and innovation was their strength, but the key was that they were able to articulate their vision about how they would leverage that innovation to build a successful commercial business. A lot of start-ups fail when they make the transition from concept to commercialisation, but Tonbo had it all figured out.” Ladsariya rates Tonbo as one of the top three investments of the 80-odd he has made so far. Tonbo followed the angel round of funding with its first institutional round of funding from Artiman Ventures in 2012. “We met in 2011 and were very impressed by the team at Tonbo and the products they were building. We waited for a year to see some traction before we invested. We are excited to be a part of the growth story of a world-class company like Tonbo,” says Radhakrishnan.


1464846675.jpg

Aided by a strong supply chain, Tonbo is churning out products which are 50% cheaper than competition

Night vision, by day

Among the other ideas the founders were sure about was the conviction that the company wouldn’t make India-centric products but those that would find a place in the global market. Tonbo builds advanced imaging and sensor systems that allow soldiers to see during night and day and through dense smoke, dust, fog and foliage. This is possible through the use of fusion technology that combines thermal and visual images into a single video feed, giving soldiers a real-time interpretation of the battlefield. For instance, its enhanced vehicle imaging platform provides a comprehensive 360-degree view of the landscape to the driver and his crew during all weather conditions. “The imaging systems that go on top of guns, UAVs or into weapons systems are actually cameras in some form or the other. For years, the design process for cameras has not changed: it still includes a single sensor, a single lens and an electronics package. But in nature, be it humans or insects, all creatures have multiple eyes that help us see the environment better. So, we decided to incorporate multiple apertures while designing our imaging systems,” he explains. In fact, Tonbo means dragonfly in Japanese, and dragonflies are known to have 40,000 eyes, the compound structure of which allows them to sense things in really low-light conditions even at lightning speeds.


“We develop the product according to the application. For instance, if a solider wants to see long-range in a battlefield or you have to put a camera on a UAV, you have to correct for turbulence. Then, we change the lens design, use consumer electronics for processing and thus create a powerful imaging system. We are the only ones to build night-vision platforms of this sort and this allows us to build very low-cost night-vision equipment,” says the proud founder. No wonder, then, that it is the only Indian company on every electro-optics and night-vision programme of the Indian MoD. Apart from being part of the Indian navy’s modernisation program, Tonbo, which has an order book of $50 million executable over the next 18 months, is also the electro-optics supplier of choice in the Indian army’s $10-billion future infantry combat vehicle programme.

“We started working with Tonbo in 2011. We supply thermal sensors to OEMs, who then system integrate it into the cameras or imaging systems and supply that to their military clients. In India, we have worked with eight to 10 OEMs and found Tonbo to be the best. The company is very quick when it comes to product development,” says Mridul Sharma, national manager, special product group, AIMIL, which develops Indian OEMs for French company ULIS, the second largest manufacturer of uncooled infrared detectors in the world. “The company has been able to successfully compete with global players with lesser resources in terms of capital in an intensely competitive market. You have to be extremely smart to do that.” Customers vouch for those smarts, too. “I have worked with Arvind in the past, when I was serving as a commander with NATO, and later as a customer for Tonbo’s surveillance systems. He has built an enviable repertoire of imaging systems addressing guns, tanks and missiles,” says General Lucas Arnold, chairman of US security firm Chevronstar.

The company has 85 engineers on its core technology team and another 15 in sales and marketing. While Tonbo has thus far managed to retain most of its talent, it couldn’t hold back one of its earliest recruits Binny Bansal, who joined the company straight out of IIT and went on to start Flipkart with his college mate. “He was a regular nerd who did coding before he left us. We wonder if he was the smart one: look at where he is and where we are,” laughs Lakshmikumar. He adds that the only way to scale a business is by hiring people smarter than yourself, and to his credit, he does seem to have an eye for spotting good talent. “Leadership is critically important to keep a start-up going because starting a business is tough. Arvind has the right balance of technical chops and leadership abilities. He has lined up investments and landed contracts while retaining top-notch talent,” says Strat. Apart from building cutting-edge products and platforms for the defence sector, the company is also looking at sectors such as transportation and consumer IoT, where its products can be leveraged.

Tonbo is also working on technologies that it can leverage in the coming decade. “We are working on a pilot project with Tesla to see how night-vision technology can be integrated seamlessly with display,” reveals Lakshmikumar. Little wonder, he has big plans for Tonbo Imaging. “We want to make Tonbo the single largest electro-optics firm in the world. We want to control the algorithms, the platforms and the customers.” In doing so, Tonbo is looking at a multifold increase in revenue, in turn, giving the start-up a pop in its valuation. Lakshmikumar, though, sounds modest. “Valuation is in the eye of the beholder. All we want to create is a business with intrinsic value,” he smiles.

https://www.outlookbusiness.com/specials/power-of-i_2016/tonbo-imaging-a-strong-defence-2797
1) Still does not explain ownership structure
2) Corresponds to my first assumption that this company does not make it's product in India, read the Apple model he was talking about
3) The core components, the imaging chips and detectors are not made it in India. This is a more marketing savvy screwdriver + sticker company. Read about how he describes other Indian defence PSUs, buying components and system from around the world and assembling it.
4) What is meant by their own IP? Other than software, I do not see any core IP for imaging chips since they are using off the shelf products.

Realize how one ex-DARPA manager is an 'advisor'? He is leveraging on his crony connections in DARPA to secure contracts. Typical Indian modus operandi, i scratch your back you scratch mine. Stop BS about 'state of the art' technology, it's just night vision for god sake.

It's pretty simple, INDIA CANNOT MAKE CHIPS WITHOUT A FAB. Understand? :cool:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top Bottom