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Tokyo Olympic 2021: Discussion and Update

Comparing medal counts, gold or total, is just another type of size competition. Silly at its best. Medals really matter to competing athletes, not much for those who just watch the games. A fat couch potato is still a fat couch potato after his compatriot wins a gold medal. After a brief excitement, he still has to face his own sorry state.

The stories behind each medal are what is more interesting. Seeing how different people struggle and challenge themselves to excel is truly inspirational. But, watching games is never the same as playing games yourself. The latter brings more benefits to yourself while the former brings more to the companies that buy ads.
Excellent thought for the brain of chair warriors..
 
A win is a win, a lose is a lose. Silver and bronze mean you were defeated at least once, all athletes train very hard, if you want to honor silver and bronze, how about the 4th, 5th, 6th...... they all train very hard. when you enter a game, there will be just one winner.
US still has chance to top the gold list, so I m not talking about US, I m talking about sports in general. A second is the same as the last.

a second place finish is not the same as last. But a second place finish is closer to that of a 3rd place finish. Just look at the podium. The 2nd and 3rd place finish are about the same height. So is how high up the flags are raised. Both are equally below the gold medalists.

I believe a good compromise is to keep the silver and bronze. But the medal table ranking should reflect first the total number of gold medals. Than the total silver and bronze together. I agree that one gold beats a 1000 silver. But 1silver is just a little better than a bronze. So this is a good compromise as compare to either ranking by total medal count or the total gold, than total silver, than total bronze. This would value gold above all other as it signify championship. While silver and bronzes are counted together to signify depth.
 
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I don’t care about overall medals. Neither does the rest of the world.

I don’t care about points system. Neither does the world.

Only thing I care about is gold medals. Rest of the world agrees with me.


The world absolutely cares. Why do you think there’s been gold, silver, and bronze medals rewarded for so long? You speak only for yourself Beidou.
 
The world absolutely cares. Why do you think there’s been gold, silver, and bronze medals rewarded for so long? You speak only for yourself Beidou.

Silver and Bronze are way way less important, not just because these typically represent the best and second best losers respectively, but more importantly:

Since Olympics tend to limited the number of competitions and number of players one country can sent to the game wherever China dominates the competition (e.g. weight lifting, it only allow China to send 8 players to attend 8 competitions in weight lifting, where China obtain 7 golds and 1 silver btw), but have no such restricts on anything the US dopers are good at with their drugs, so I am not even sure silver/bronze represent the best or second best losers correctly.
 
Silver and Bronze are way way less important, not just because these typically represent the best and second best losers respectively, but more importantly:

Since Olympics tend to limited the number of competitions and number of players one country can sent to the game wherever China dominates the competition (e.g. weight lifting, it only allow China to send 8 players to attend 8 competitions in weight lifting, where China obtain 7 golds and 1 silver btw), but have no such restricts on anything the US dopers are good at with their drugs, so I am not even sure silver/bronze represent the best or second best losers correctly.

I agree that the weight lifting restrictions per country make no sense. There are no such restrictions on Judo, boxing, or diving.
 
All is fair in love and war and there is no second best in them. second best means you lost. It doesn't matter you lost closely or by a big margin and it doesn't matter how many others also lost with you.
 
When US become loser, suddenly people are shouting Gold is not important.

Anyway US wins by putting heavily doped asthma patients who are suppose to go para olympic into mainstream olympic. Else medals of US will be closer to zero.
 
Having a sliver is the same as being the last, cause it means you were defeated, that's why many silver medalist cry after getting the medal, it's a lost, not a win.

Sorry, America: China's leading the real Olympic medal count
Dan Wetzel
Wed, August 4, 2021, 4:12 PM·4 min read

TOKYO — China is kicking the United States' tail (at least for now) in these Olympics, although you wouldn’t know it if you just scanned the medal tables in the American media.

In an unexplained yet (apparently) nationally accepted counting method, Americans tally the standings not by what country wins the most golds, but what country wins the most total medals.

NBC. New York Times. Washington Post. Alas, even Yahoo Sports.
This is, to be clear, ridiculous.

That means China’s current tally of 32 golds, 21 silvers and 16 bronzes (69 total) is somehow not as good as the United States’ 25 golds, 29 silvers and 21 bronzes (75 total). Try telling China’s seven extra gold medalists that their victories didn't matter.

What in the name of participation trophies is going on here?

The rest of the world favors gold over everything. That’s how the International Olympic Committee tallies it. Same with the medal standing on the Toyko 2020 website. It’s good enough for media companies all over the world, just not in the U.S. apparently.

Everyone else has this right since, quite literally, gold is better than the others. It’s a simple concept.
Gold. Silver. Bronze.

The gold medalist gets the highest spot on the podium. The flag of the country that the gold medalist represents is raised higher than the others. They play the anthem of the gold medalist, not the others.
There is no subtlety here. There is no room for interpretation. At no point was it ever suggested that the three spots are equals. If they were, then they’d just hand out three gold medals.


Instead, back at the 1904 Games — held in St. Louis, no less — they came up with the concept of three colored medals. Everyone loved it. Prior to that the winner received a silver medal and an olive branch while the runner-ups each got a bronze or copper medal and a laurel branch.

The U.S. though, like its opposition to the metric system, decides to go it alone and, hey, what a coincidence, it just happens to make it look like the Americans are having the most success at the Olympics, when we most certainly are not.

This wasn’t some planned thing. The system was in place before China began capturing more golds here. It isn’t a coordinated way to spare America’s fragile ego and hide the fact that it isn’t dominating the Games.

It just looks that way.

Consider this: If the United States was leading the standings according to every single entity — official or neutral — in the entire world, but the Chinese media used a different system that put them on top … well, what would you think?

Besides, the total medal count does tend to favor the United States, which often has the largest delegation at the Olympics and, thus, the most chances to win medals (613 to China’s 431).

Right now though, it’s just embarrassing. There is no shame in not winning as many golds as China. Really, who cares? A nation's worth is not defined by the strength of its canoe slalom team. Besides, with track and field, basketball and boxing still going, we can still surpass the Chinese by any metric.

But making it look like we are reworking the numbers — even if it isn’t orchestrated — is humiliating.


The simple solution is to weigh the medals for the sake of the standings. Say three points for gold, two for silver and one for bronze. Or whatever value needs to be assigned. Then it wouldn’t be all about the gold, but it also wouldn’t pretend gold was bronze.

No one has ever tried to claim their company offers customers the “silver-standard.” A luxury experience is ever hyped as “bronze-plated.” The current price of an ounce of gold? $1,813. Silver? Try $818. Bronze is going for $2.55 for an entire pound.

If anyone wants to say they are all equal, I’m willing to trade pounds of bronze for pounds of gold any time you want.

Some of the American athletes have brought up frustration that sometimes “winning silver” is equated to “losing gold.”

“Excuse my French, but the fact we’re not celebrating silver and bronze is bulls—,” swimmer Lily King said. “What is that about?

“You get to bring a medal home for your country,” King continued. “Just because we compete for the United States and maybe we have extremely high standards for this sort of thing, that doesn’t excuse the fact that we haven’t been celebrating silver and bronze as much as gold.”

Hey, go ahead and celebrate and be proud of the accomplishment. Very few of us get to be in the top three in the world at anything.

That doesn’t mean bronze is the new gold. Or that — face it — China shouldn't be on top of the medal chart.


There's no question that the Gold medal is the most strived for medals of all 3. But to claim the others are as equal to a "loss" is the most absurd twist of logic ever perpetuated to try and convince against a lost argument.

Why even have the other 3 medals? Why did the Greeks invent the sport with a 3 winner podium? Because the rules of the games gave percentages of wins to 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Very simple and the totals becomes the qualifying winner, nor just the single total of top medal. Flawed argument at best!

Now some sports don't award anything beyond 2st place, but guess what, the Olympics if NOT one of them and is specifically designed the have a combined 1st, 2nd and 3rd for the final accumulation of tally of medals. Not caring about any other medal beyond the gold is nothing but a personal load of crap that does not pertain to the spirit of this particular, and ancient worldly games you people need to understand a but more of.

And no offense since I have much love for China, but I couldn't care less what the opinion of that nitwit is that posted that decrepit article you posted, with all due respect to you. It's just his bitter opinion which he obviously has a huge bug up his *** about the US for some reason,

Right now the US is only 5 Golds behind China and 11 ahead in totals, That boasts for a MUCH stronger effort and overall success. MUCH STRONGER and that is EXACTLY the reason why ALL the medals matter, not just the Gold!

I believe China has already won it..

lol. Maybe in your dreams.

From Yahoo Sports:

View attachment 767502

Notice the difference in size between the gold bars and the others? :lol:

Yeah that is pretty stupid. But guess what, instead of focusing of that stupid error or whatever it is, look that overall difference of 11 medals. That's a crushing count if I've ever seen one.

Still USA has a chance to top the gold medal count despite getting too many silver medals in the track and field

No such thing as "getting too many silver medals" Jesus Christ when are you people going to understand the fundamental RULES OF THE OLYMPPICS AND NOT WHAT SOME CHINESE MEMNBERS THINK THEY SHOULD BE? LIKE GIVE A LOSS TO A SILVER AND BROZE MEDAL LOLOLOL! That is the most absurd, insulting to the athlete's effort and ridiculous thing I have heard on this thread so far, but then again it is PDF it shouldn't be surprising the attempting twist of logic lol.

Couldn’t disagree more. These athletes spend years if not decades training for this moment and the top 3 should be rightfully recognized, as they always have.

The only reason you say that about gold is because you know China has no chance at winning the overall medal count.

That probably is it. Makes you wonder if they would genuinely support the same logic about the gold if the US was ahead in that medal but China was ahead in the overall? Mmmm.....I wonder.

A win is a win, a lose is a lose.

Why don't you write the Olympic committee to change the rules and stop giving out Silver and Bronze medals? DO IT! Since you value the silver as a LOSS (lmfao wow) and and Bronze must mean that person should be stoned to death when he gets back to China? GO ahead and practice what you preach instead of following the guidelines at to the way the Greeks set up the rules that have followed for over centuries loooool. Not what you think it should be. No disrespect to you, really, I've have good debates with you before but this is way over the top.

51 bronze medals is NOT a greater achievement than 50 golds medals.

No one said it was. Stop twisting the argument to suit your feeble point and try to raise your IQ a bit to understand the main point. 50 supposed gold medals would be an INCREDIBLE achievement and would undoubtedtly accompany a butt-load of Gold medals which was my point from the beginning. The overall tally of ALL the medals is what determines the champion and not just the most Gold by only a 5 or 7 to the 2nd place who has 11 to 15 more overall medals. That makes about as much sense as sticking your head in the sand and claiming the weather.

When US become loser, suddenly people are shouting Gold is not important.

Anyway US wins by putting heavily doped asthma patients who are suppose to go para olympic into mainstream olympic. Else medals of US will be closer to zero.

Oh please, stop making lies up and make a better effort at understanding the way the competition is OFFICIALLY run, not the way you and other Chinese want it to be with ONLY GOLD COUNTING!!!!

Instead of rooting for your people to win the entire Olympics, you only care that they beat the US in Gold! That is the most pathetically selfish thing I've seen so far.

a second place finish is not the same as last. But a second place finish is closer to that of a 3rd place finish. Just look at the podium. The 2nd and 3rd place finish are about the same height. So is how high up the flags are raised. Both are equally below the gold medalists.

I believe a good compromise is to keep the silver and bronze. But the medal table ranking should reflect first the total number of gold medals. Than the total silver and bronze together. I agree that one gold beats a 1000 silver. But 1silver is just a little better than a bronze. So this is a good compromise as compare to either ranking by total medal count or the total gold, than total silver, than total bronze. This would value gold above all other as it signify championship. While silver and bronzes are counted together to signify depth.

No such thing. So what you're saying is agreeing with the Indian fella that a couch potato is basically just the same as the athlete who trained for years or a decade?! Is that the dumbest BS ever posted here? You really can't be serous.

When US become loser, suddenly people are shouting Gold is not important.

Anyway US wins by putting heavily doped asthma patients who are suppose to go para Olympic into mainstream olympic. Else medals of US will be closer to zero.

Who said the us is a loser? Where did you get that lie and why are you lying? 5 gold medals behind China but crushing the totals with 11 with 2 days and many favorable US events left? Oh please, you people hate the US at any cost and that's fine, that's your prerogative for whatever reason you want. But when you try to change the rules just to suit your agenda and to boldly claim that Silver and Bronze medals have absolutely NO VALUE in the overall Olympic scoring LET ALONE to the individuals who have won them with great, personal sacrifice since you agreed with @beijingwalker that Silver medal is a loss...........is nothing but the most selfish attempt at twisting the rules and I bet you you wouldn't have the guts to go up to one of these athletes who have won a silver or a bronze and call them a loser to their face like you are here behind the security of your keyboard lol. Just unreal. You people need to be A LOT more pragmatic and reasonable about this great, traditional sports event.

Silver and Bronze are way way less important, not just because these typically represent the best and second best losers respectively, but more importantly:

LOLOLOL!!! Nice twist of words! Maybe that's what they call it where you come from. But it's the 2nd and 3nd BEST WINNER! If it was a lose, there would be NO MEDAL! Stop trying to convince people who understand these fallacies quite well. That BS doesn't won't work.

May the best country win with the overall best medal count as it has always been and should always be!
 
There's no question that the Gold medal is the most strived for medals of all 3. But to claim the others are as equal to a "loss" is the most absurd twist of logic ever perpetuated to try and convince against a lost argument.

Why even have the other 3 medals? Why did the Greeks invent the sport with a 3 winner podium? Because the rules of the games gave percentages of wins to 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Very simple and the totals becomes the qualifying winner, nor just the single total of top medal. Flawed argument at best!

Now some sports don't award anything beyond 2st place, but guess what, the Olympics if NOT one of them and is specifically designed the have a combined 1st, 2nd and 3rd for the final accumulation of tally of medals. Not caring about any other medal beyond the gold is nothing but a personal load of crap that does not pertain to the spirit of this particular, and ancient worldly games you people need to understand a but more of.

And no offense since I have much love for China, but I couldn't care less what the opinion of that nitwit is that posted that decrepit article you posted, with all due respect to you. It's just his bitter opinion which he obviously has a huge bug up his *** about the US for some reason,

Right now the US is only 5 Golds behind China and 11 ahead in totals, That boasts for a MUCH stronger effort and overall success. MUCH STRONGER and that is EXACTLY the reason why ALL the medals matter, not just the Gold!



lol. Maybe in your dreams.



Yeah that is pretty stupid. But guess what, instead of focusing of that stupid error or whatever it is, look that overall difference of 11 medals. That's a crushing count if I've ever seen one.



No such thing as "getting too many silver medals" Jesus Christ when are you people going to understand the fundamental RULES OF THE OLYMPPICS AND NOT WHAT SOME CHINESE MEMNBERS THINK THEY SHOULD BE? LIKE GIVE A LOSS TO A SILVER AND BROZE MEDAL LOLOLOL! That is the most absurd, insulting to the athlete's effort and ridiculous thing I have heard on this thread so far, but then again it is PDF it shouldn't be surprising the attempting twist of logic lol.



That probably is it. Makes you wonder if they would genuinely support the same logic about the gold if the US was ahead in that medal but China was ahead in the overall? Mmmm.....I wonder.



Why don't you write the Olympic committee to change the rules and stop giving out Silver and Bronze medals? DO IT! Since you value the silver as a LOSS (lmfao wow) and and Bronze must mean that person should be stoned to death when he gets back to China? GO ahead and practice what you preach instead of following the guidelines at to the way the Greeks set up the rules that have followed for over centuries loooool. Not what you think it should be. No disrespect to you, really, I've have good debates with you before but this is way over the top.



No one said it was. Stop twisting the argument to suit your feeble point and try to raise your IQ a bit to understand the main point. 50 supposed gold medals would be an INCREDIBLE achievement and would undoubtedtly accompany a butt-load of Gold medals which was my point from the beginning. The overall tally of ALL the medals is what determines the champion and not just the most Gold by only a 5 or 7 to the 2nd place who has 11 to 15 more overall medals. That makes about as much sense as sticking your head in the sand and claiming the weather.



Oh please, stop making lies up and make a better effort at understanding the way the competition is OFFICIALLY run, not the way you and other Chinese want it to be with ONLY GOLD COUNTING!!!!

Instead of rooting for your people to win the entire Olympics, you only care that they beat the US in Gold! That is the most pathetically selfish thing I've seen so far.



No such thing. So what you're saying is agreeing with the Indian fella that a couch potato is basically just the same as the athlete who trained for years or a decade?! Is that the dumbest BS ever posted here? You really can't be serous.



Who said the us is a loser? Where did you get that lie and why are you lying? 5 gold medals behind China but crushing the totals with 11 with 2 days and many favorable US events left? Oh please, you people hate the US at any cost and that's fine, that's your prerogative for whatever reason you want. But when you try to change the rules just to suit your agenda and to boldly claim that Silver and Bronze medals have absolutely NO VALUE in the overall Olympic scoring LET ALONE to the individuals who have won them with great, personal sacrifice since you agreed with @beijingwalker that Silver medal is a loss...........is nothing but the most selfish attempt at twisting the rules and I bet you you wouldn't have the guts to go up to one of these athletes who have won a silver or a bronze and call them a loser to their face like you are here behind the security of your keyboard lol. Just unreal. You people need to be A LOT more pragmatic and reasonable about this great, traditional sports event.



LOLOLOL!!! Nice twist of words! Maybe that's what they call it where you come from. But it's the 2nd and 3nd BEST WINNER! If it was a lose, there would be NO MEDAL! Stop trying to convince people who understand these fallacies quite well. That BS doesn't won't work.

May the best country win with the overall best medal count as it has always been and should always be!
Why writing an eassy?
https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/en/results/all-sports/medal-standings.htm
 
I said the second is the same of the last from day one, check my previous posts, it's not like I changed my tone after China took the lead in gold. US is still very likely to top the gold list, so I m not talking about any specific countries.
A win is a win, a lost is a lost. one can't claim they win after they were at least being defeated once. in the end of the day, people only care about how many golds you got, not silvers and bronzes, unless for some countries which get no golds at all, then they have no choice but to settle for silvers and bronzes.
 
I don't call it a win, neither do the silver medalists themselves.

Chinese Athlete Tearfully Apologizes for Winning Silver

“I kind of failed our team,” Liu, the 30-year-old female athlete, broke down in tears when speaking to state broadcaster CCTV after the match. “I’m sorry, everyone.”
The silver medalists kept straight faces and apologized again at a press conference later.
“We did not make it a good ending for ourselves,” said Xu, the 31-year-old male player. “The whole country was looking forward to this final… I think the entire Chinese team cannot accept this result.”


'Failed the nation': Chinese Olympians facing furious backlash at home
 

Essay? lol, I haven't written an essay since I left college over 35 years ago. It's called multiple quoting posts that referenced my original point of total medals are the deciding factor of who wins the event.

Take a look at this link with overall standings since 1904 I believe. Note how they record it with the first tally. It might let things sink a bit.


Summer Olympic Winners By Total Medals
RankCountryTotalGoldSilverBronze
1United States (USA)2,5231,022795706
2Russia (RUS)1,556590486480
3Germany (GER)1,346428444474
4Great Britain (GBR)851263295293
5France (FRA)716212241263
6Italy (ITA)577206178193
7China (CHN)546224167155
8Australia (AUS)497147163187
9Sweden (SWE)494145170179
10Hungary (HUN)491175147169
11Japan (JPN)439142136161
12Romania (ROU)3048994121
13Finland (FIN)30310185117
14Canada (CAN)30264102136
15Netherlands (NED)2858592108
16Poland (POL)2846884132
17South Korea (KOR)267908790
18Cuba (CUB)226786880
19Bulgaria (BUL)218518780
20Denmark (DEN)194457475
21Switzerland (SUI)192507567
22Norway (NOR)152564947
23Spain (ESP)150456441
24Belgium (BEL)148405355
25Czechoslovakia (TCH)*143494945
26Brazil (BRA)129303663
27Ukraine (UKR)120343056
28New Zealand (NZL)117462744
29Greece (GRE)116334340
30Serbia110314039
31Kenya (KEN)103313834
32Turkey (TUR)91392428
33Austria (AUT)87183336
34South Africa (RSA)86263129
35Jamaica (JAM)78223521
36Belarus (BLR)78122739
37Argentina (ARG)74212528
38Iran (IRI)69212127
39Kazakhstan (KAZ)64152128
40Mexico (MEX)59132422
41Czech Republic (CZE)56151724
42Ethiopia (ETH)54221121
43North Korea (PRK)54161622
44Azerbaijan (AZE)4271124
45Estonia (EST)349916
46Croatia (CRO)33111012
47Thailand (THA)339816
48Egypt (EGY)3271015
49Georgia (GEO)328717
50Indonesia (INA)3271312

Countries With The Most Summer Olympic Medals - WorldAtlas

I said the second is the same of the last from day one, check my previous posts, it's not like I changed my tone after China took the lead in gold. US is still very likely to top the gold list, so I m not talking about any specific countries.
A win is a win, a lost is a lost. one can't claim they win after they were at least being defeated once. in the end of the day, people only care about how many golds you got, not silvers and bronzes, unless for some countries which get no golds at all, then they have no choice but to settle for silvers and bronzes.

But equating a silver medal as a loss is disturbingly incorrect and not only that, it's demeaning for the athlete be it American, Italian or Chinese. The effort it takes and the fact it is a reward that counts for the country is far more important than your personal opinion.

I don't call it a win, neither do the silver medalists themselves.

Chinese Athlete Tearfully Apologizes for Winning Silver

'Failed the nation': Chinese Olympians facing furious backlash at home


Yeah I get that they probably are disappointed a bit since they all want the top gold. but it's not a loss by any stretch of the imagination.
 
The majority of US elite athletes are critically ill, both physically and psychological, and should be classified as handicapped, or para Olympian.

Today, after pumping so much drug, they are beaten by -- Chinese. That shows US is a stupid race.

I got a feeling Simone Biles quit recently because she was caught with unacceptable level of drug in her blood, not because she want to follows her heart (WADA give face to US).

*************

The World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) has condemned Russian hackers for leaking confidential medical files of star US Olympic athletes.

Athletes affected include tennis players Venus and Serena Williams and teenage gymnast Simone Biles.

A group calling itself "Fancy Bears" claimed responsibility for the hack of a Wada database.

After the leak, Ms Biles said she had long been taking medicine for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.

The hacker group had accused her of taking an "illicit psycho-stimulant", but she said she had "always followed the rules".



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