Timur: Genious conquerer or savage barbarian?

[Jaanbaz]

Akalmand, Mahabharata is an epic poem, not a territory.

Mahabharta, bharat it all sounds same to me.

 

[Kabira]

I have been reading Malfuzat-i Timuri, seem like he was devout muslim and true servant of allah.

 

[Kabira]

"About this time there arose in my heart the desire to lead an expedition against the infidels, and to become a ghazi; for it had reached my ears that the slayer of infidels is a ghazi, and if he is slain he becomes a martyr. It was on this account that I formed this resolution, but I was undetermined in my mind whether I should direct my expedition against the infidels of China or against the infidels and polytheists of India. In this matter I sought an omen from the Kuran, and the verse I opened upon was this, “O Prophet, make war upon infidels and unbelievers and treat them with severity.” Timur

Malfuzat

 

[Kabira]

''My great officers told me that the inhabitants of Hindustan were infidels and unbelievers. In obedience to the order of Almighty God I determined on an expedition against them, and I issue orders to the amirs of mature years, and the leaders in war, to come before me, and when they had come together I questioned the assembly as to whether I should invade Hindustan or China, and said to them, “By the order of God and the Prophet it is incumbent upon me to make war upon these infidels and polytheists.” Timur

 

[atatwolf]

The brutal capture of Delhi (1398):

The battle took place on 17 December 1398. Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq and Mallu Iqbal's[59] army had war elephants armored with chain mail and poison on their tusks.[60] With his Tatar forces afraid of the elephants, Timur ordered his men to dig a trench in front of their positions. Timur then loaded his camels with as much wood and hay as they could carry. When the war elephants charged, Timur set the hay on fire and prodded the camels with iron sticks, causing them to charge at the elephants howling in pain: Timur had understood that elephants were easily panicked. Faced with the strange spectacle of camels flying straight at them with flames leaping from their backs, the elephants turned around and stampeded back toward their own lines. Timur capitalized on the subsequent disruption in Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq's forces, securing an easy victory. Delhi was sacked and left in ruins. Before the battle for Delhi,

Amazing they made a movie about the schizophrenic crazy homosexual called Alexander that burnt all cities and villages on his campaign in Asia but they don't make a movie about Timur

 

[Brutas]

Amazing they made a movie about the schizophrenic crazy homosexual called Alexander that burnt all cities and villages on his campaign in Asia but they don't make a movie about Timur

Who is stopping Turks from making movie about him. Go for it !

 

[Menace2Society]

He taught those stupid FATAites a valuable lesson on what happens when you are treacherous. Gets thumbs up from me.

 

[Kabira]

He taught those stupid FATAites a valuable lesson on what happens when you are treacherous. Gets thumbs up from me.

Are u retarded?

 

[niaz]

How do you want to look at Timur (meaning Iron); as a ruler, as a military adventurer, as a lover of poetry & art or as a Muslim?

Without doubt as a military leader, there have been few better than him during the middle ages. One must never ignore that Birlas clan, even though racially Turk was part of the Chaghatai Ulus and thus heavily influenced by Changez Khan; who is arguably one of the greatest conquers of all time; thus you find Timur as barbaric as any Mongol warlord.

I have read 3 biographies of Timur, one written during Shah Jehan’ s time is considered spurious as it portrays Timur partiality towards Shia’s. However, from each, Timur emerges as a great warlord, second only to Changez in savagery as well as in military prowess. Modern Uzbekistan was his homeland and he is deservedly revered as a hero. On the other hand, his ransacking of Delhi and his treatment of the Ottoman Turks remain unequalled in savagery.

Simultaneously, his love of poetry and beautiful buildings is also admirable. While Changez's Empire lasted for nearly 500 years in the form of the ‘Golden horde’, Timur’s ranking as a ruler is quite low. His family ruled their homeland for barely a century after his death and it was only due to the exceptionally gifted Princes Babur and Akbar that Timur’s progeny ruled India for nearly 3 hundred years.

As Muslim I rank him very low indeed. Even tough Timur was a follower of Sufi Islam and respected Sufi saints; majority of his victims were Muslims. His destruction of the Ottoman army of Bayazid Yildrim delayed conquest of Constantinople by nearly 150 years.

In my view, he was a typical barbaric warlord; an exceptionally gifted general, generous to his supporters and extremely harsh & vindictive towards all who opposed him.

 

[Kabira]

How do you want to look at Timur (meaning Iron); as a ruler, as a military adventurer, as a lover of poetry & art or as a Muslim?

Without doubt as a military leader, there have been few better than him during the middle ages. One must never ignore that Birlas clan, even though racially Turk was part of the Chaghatai Ulus and thus heavily influenced by Changez Khan; who is arguably one of the greatest conquers of all time; thus you find Timur as barbaric as any Mongol warlord.

I have read 3 biographies of Timur, one written during Shah Jehan’ s time is considered spurious as it portrays Timur partiality towards Shia’s. However, from each, Timur emerges as a great warlord, second only to Changez in savagery as well as in military prowess. Modern Uzbekistan was his homeland and he is deservedly revered as a hero. On the other hand, his ransacking of Delhi and his treatment of the Ottoman Turks remain unequalled in savagery.

Simultaneously, his love of poetry and beautiful buildings is also admirable. While Changez's Empire lasted for nearly 500 years in the form of the ‘Golden horde’, Timur’s ranking as a ruler is quite low. His family ruled their homeland for barely a century after his death and it was only due to the exceptionally gifted Princes Babur and Akbar that Timur’s progeny ruled India for nearly 3 hundred years.

As Muslim I rank him very low indeed. Even tough Timur was a follower of Sufi Islam and respected Sufi saints; majority of his victims were Muslims. His destruction of the Ottoman army of Bayazid Yildrim delayed conquest of Constantinople by nearly 150 years.

In my view, he was a typical barbaric warlord; an exceptionally gifted general, generous to his supporters and extremely harsh & vindictive towards all who opposed him.

At least in memoir, he comes as very devout muslim. Though along the way he killed many muslims as well which should be expected after all.

 

[Omar Chaudhry]

Timur did the biggest damage to Muslims. He savagely slaughtered Afghanistan, Indian Muslims, and most of all the Ottoman empire. The Persians in general were clever not to oppose him too much.

I think it would have been better for the Ottomans to deal with him, because had they done that the Timurid forces wouldn't have savagely slaughtered them.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Thing is Timur destroyed the 4 of the 5 great cities of the then contemporary islamic world completely - Isfahan in Persia,Baghdad in Mesopotamia,Delhi in India and Damascus in Syria.Only Cairo escaped because he was diverted by the war with bayezid and died before he could return.While bayezid's defeat proved to be a temporary eclipse for the ottomans a more long term impact of timur was the massive decreasein the power of the golden horde.He destroyed the sarai-astrakhan trade route and all cities along the way which dealt a heavy blow to the economic power of the golden horde as the silk road trade was diverted to the samarkand route .This paved the way for the ascendancy of russia just half a century later throwing off the mongol yoke.

 

[Omar Chaudhry]

Ankara (capitol of the Ottoman empire) was also destroyed completely , infact Ottoman's suffered more than the Muslims of India, because Timur's battles on the Muslim regions of India weren't much accept for Delhi. Persia barely resisted, accept for Isfahan as you mentioned and hence didn't suffer much. It was a wise decision at that time for the Iranians. This was also at a stage where Shias (although a minority then in Iraq and Iran) were rising in Iraq and Iran and worked with Timur to enhance his (and their) control in Iraq and Iran. So this too had an effect, a positive one, since the population was saved (or Iran and especially Iraq).

I believe Timur to be a sadistic mad dog, however if the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid wouldn't have insulted him in a letter his empire wouldn't have been destroyed and slaughtered. The Timurid forces marched all the way to Ankara and put a devastating end to the Ottoman empire...only after decades did the Ottoman empire started recovering.

References

1. Hundred Great Muslims (Book written by Khwaja Jamil Ahmed). By the way the author is Pakistani .

2. "The Geneology ,ancestry and History of Turks" by Professor Akram Yuldashev, of Uzebkistan, but teaches in Turkey. He comes from the country where Timur came from...Uzbekistan.

3. "Discovering the Ottomans" by İlber Ortaylı

 

[Viking 63]

He was mad savage dog and nothing more.

 

[Menace2Society]

Knew exactly how to deal with Durrand line Afghans. Should learn from him.