What's new

Timur: Genious conquerer or savage barbarian?

Charon

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
140
Reaction score
0
Timur is also a very controversial figure in history. Uzbeks consider him as their national hero while Persians and Indians curse him because of his brutal brutal military campaign against them

Timur's armies were feared throughout Asia, Africa, and Europe, sizable parts of which were laid to ruin by his campaigns. Scholars estimate that his military campaigns caused the deaths of 17 million people, amounting to about 5% of the world population, leading to a predominantly barbaric legacy.

Timur is also recognized as a great patron of art and architecture, as he interacted with Muslim intellectuals such as Ibn Khaldun and Hafiz-i Abru.

Here are some informations about him:

Timur, Tarmashirin Khan, Emir Timur (Persian: تیمور‎ Timūr, Chagatai: Temür "iron"; 9 April 1336 – 18 February 1405), historically known as Tamerlane (Persian: تيمور لنگ‎ Timūr(-e) Lang, "Timur the Lame"), was a Turko-Mongol ruler of Barlas lineage. He conquered West, South and Central Asia and founded the Timurid dynasty. He was the grandfather of Ulugh Beg, who ruled Central Asia from 1411 to 1449, and the great-great-great-grandfather of Babur Beg, founder of the Mughal Empire, which ruled parts of South Asia for around four centuries, from 1526 until 1857

Timur envisioned the restoration of the Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan. As a means of legitimating his conquests, Timur relied on Islamic symbols and language, referring to himself as the Sword of Islam and patronizing educational and religious institutions. He converted nearly all the Borjigin leaders to Islam during his lifetime. His armies were inclusively multi-ethnic. During his lifetime Timur emerged as the most powerful ruler in the Muslim world after defeating the Mamluks of Egypt and Syria, the emerging Ottoman Empire and the declining Sultanate of Delhi. Timur had also decisively defeated the Christian Knights Hospitaller at Smyrna, styling himself a Ghazi. By the end of his reign Timur had also gained complete control over all the remnants of the Chagatai Khanate, Ilkhanate, Golden Horde and even attempted to restore the Yuan dynasty.

Personality:

Timur is regarded as a military genius and a tactician, with an uncanny ability to work within a highly fluid political structure to win and maintain a loyal following of nomads during his rule in Central Asia. He was also considered extraordinarily intelligent- not only intuitively but also intellectually. In Samarkand and his many travels, Timur, under the guidance of distinguished scholars was able to learn Persian, Mongolian, and Turkic languages. More importantly, Timur was characterized as an opportunist. Taking advantage of his Turco-Mongolian heritage, Timur frequently used either the Islamic religion or the law and traditions of the Mongol Empire to achieve his military goals or domestic political aims.

Campaign against the Tughlaq Dynasty:

In 1398, Timur invaded northern India, attacking the Delhi Sultanate ruled by Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq of the Tughlaq Dynasty. He was opposed by Ahirs and Jats but the Sultanate at Delhi did nothing to stop him. After crossing the Indus river on 30 September 1398, he sacked Tulamba and massacred its inhabitants. Then he advanced and captured Multan by October.
He justified his campaign towards Delhi as a religious war against the Hindu religion practiced in the city and also as a chance for to gain more riches in a city that was lacking control. By all accounts, Timur's campaigns in India were marked by systematic slaughter and other atrocities on a truly massive scale inflicted mainly on the subcontinent's Hindu population.
Timur crossed the Indus River at Attock (now Pakistan) on 24 September 1398. His invasion did not go unopposed and he encountered resistance by the Governor of Meerut during the march to Delhi. Timur was still able to continue his approach to Delhi, arriving in 1398, to fight the armies of Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq, which had already been weakened by a succession struggle within the royal family.

The brutal capture of Delhi (1398):

The battle took place on 17 December 1398. Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq and Mallu Iqbal's[59] army had war elephants armored with chain mail and poison on their tusks.[60] With his Tatar forces afraid of the elephants, Timur ordered his men to dig a trench in front of their positions. Timur then loaded his camels with as much wood and hay as they could carry. When the war elephants charged, Timur set the hay on fire and prodded the camels with iron sticks, causing them to charge at the elephants howling in pain: Timur had understood that elephants were easily panicked. Faced with the strange spectacle of camels flying straight at them with flames leaping from their backs, the elephants turned around and stampeded back toward their own lines. Timur capitalized on the subsequent disruption in Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq's forces, securing an easy victory. Delhi was sacked and left in ruins. Before the battle for Delhi,

Timur executed 100,000 captives:

The capture of the Delhi Sultanate was one of Timur's greatest victories, arguably surpassing the likes of Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan because of the harsh conditions of the journey and the achievement of taking down one of the richest cities at the time.
After Delhi fell to Timur's army, uprisings by its citizens against the Turkic-Mongols began to occur, causing a bloody massacre within the city walls. After three days of citizens uprising within Delhi, it was said that the city reeked of decomposing bodies of its citizens with their heads being erected like structures and the bodies left as food for the birds.
Timur's invasion and destruction of Delhi continued the chaos that was still consuming India and the city would not be able to recover from the great loss it suffered for almost a century.

Legacy:

Timur's legacy is a mixed one. While Central Asia blossomed under his reign, other places such as Baghdad, Damascus, Delhi and other Arab, Georgian, Persian, and Indian cities were sacked and destroyed and their populations massacred. He was responsible for the effective destruction of the Christian Church in much of Asia. Thus, while Timur still retains a positive image in Muslim Central Asia, he is vilified by many in Arabia, Persia, and India, where some of his greatest atrocities were carried out. However, Ibn Khaldun praises Timur for having unified much of the Muslim world when other conquerors of the time could not.

Timur's military talents were unique. He planned all his campaigns years in advance, even planting barley for horse feed two years ahead of his campaigns. He used propaganda, in what is now called information warfare, as part of his tactics. His campaigns were preceded by the deployment of spies whose tasks included collecting information and spreading horrifying reports about the cruelty, size, and might of Timur’s armies. Such psychological warfare eventually weakened the morale of threatened populations and caused panic in the regions that he intended to invade.

For his time he had an uncharacteristic concern for his troops which inspired fierce loyalty from them. They were not paid, however; instead their incentives were from looting captured territory—a bounty that included horses, women, precious metals and stones; in other words whatever they, or their newly captured slaves, could carry away from the conquered lands.[

Timur's short-lived empire also melded the Turko-Persian tradition in Transoxiania, and in most of the territories which he incorporated into his fiefdom, Persian became the primary language of administration and literary culture (diwan), regardless of ethnicity. In addition, during his reign, some contributions to Turkic literature were penned, with Turkic cultural influence expanding and flourishing as a result. A literary form of Chagatai Turkic came into use alongside Persian as both a cultural and an official language

Timur became a relatively popular figure in Europe for centuries after his death, mainly because of his victory over the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid. The Ottoman armies were at the time invading Eastern Europe and Timur was ironically seen as a sort of ally

Timur has now been officially recognized as a national hero of newly independent Uzbekistan. His monument in Tashkent now occupies the place where Marx's statue once stood.

Forensic facial reconstruction of Timur:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Timur_reconstruction01.jpg

Full story: Timur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Timurid Dynasty:

The Timurid dynasty (Persian: تیموریان‎), self-designated Gurkānī (Persian: گوركانى‎), was a Persianate, Sunni Muslim dynasty of Turco-Mongol lineage which ruled over modern-day Iran, Afghanistan, much of Central Asia, as well as parts of contemporary Pakistan, India, Mesopotamia, Anatolia and the Caucasus. The dynasty was founded by Timur (Tamerlane) in the 14th century.
The Timurids lost control of most of Persia to the Safavid dynasty in 1501, but members of the dynasty continued to rule parts of Central Asia and parts of India, sometimes known as the Timurid Emirates. In the 16th century, Babur, a Timurid prince from Ferghana (modern Uzbekistan), invaded Kabulistan (modern Afghanistan) and established a small kingdom there, and from there 20 years later he invaded Hindustan to establish the Mughal Empire.

Timurid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Timur is also a very controversial figure in history. Uzbeks consider him as their national hero while Persians and Indians curse him because of his brutal brutal military campaign against them

Timur's armies were feared throughout Asia, Africa, and Europe, sizable parts of which were laid to ruin by his campaigns. Scholars estimate that his military campaigns caused the deaths of 17 million people, amounting to about 5% of the world population, leading to a predominantly barbaric legacy.

Timur is also recognized as a great patron of art and architecture, as he interacted with Muslim intellectuals such as Ibn Khaldun and Hafiz-i Abru.

Here are some informations about him:

Timur, Tarmashirin Khan, Emir Timur (Persian: تیمور‎ Timūr, Chagatai: Temür "iron"; 9 April 1336 – 18 February 1405), historically known as Tamerlane (Persian: تيمور لنگ‎ Timūr(-e) Lang, "Timur the Lame"), was a Turko-Mongol ruler of Barlas lineage. He conquered West, South and Central Asia and founded the Timurid dynasty. He was the grandfather of Ulugh Beg, who ruled Central Asia from 1411 to 1449, and the great-great-great-grandfather of Babur Beg, founder of the Mughal Empire, which ruled parts of South Asia for around four centuries, from 1526 until 1857

Timur envisioned the restoration of the Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan. As a means of legitimating his conquests, Timur relied on Islamic symbols and language, referring to himself as the Sword of Islam and patronizing educational and religious institutions. He converted nearly all the Borjigin leaders to Islam during his lifetime. His armies were inclusively multi-ethnic. During his lifetime Timur emerged as the most powerful ruler in the Muslim world after defeating the Mamluks of Egypt and Syria, the emerging Ottoman Empire and the declining Sultanate of Delhi. Timur had also decisively defeated the Christian Knights Hospitaller at Smyrna, styling himself a Ghazi. By the end of his reign Timur had also gained complete control over all the remnants of the Chagatai Khanate, Ilkhanate, Golden Horde and even attempted to restore the Yuan dynasty.

Personality:

Timur is regarded as a military genius and a tactician, with an uncanny ability to work within a highly fluid political structure to win and maintain a loyal following of nomads during his rule in Central Asia. He was also considered extraordinarily intelligent- not only intuitively but also intellectually. In Samarkand and his many travels, Timur, under the guidance of distinguished scholars was able to learn Persian, Mongolian, and Turkic languages. More importantly, Timur was characterized as an opportunist. Taking advantage of his Turco-Mongolian heritage, Timur frequently used either the Islamic religion or the law and traditions of the Mongol Empire to achieve his military goals or domestic political aims.

Campaign against the Tughlaq Dynasty:

In 1398, Timur invaded northern India, attacking the Delhi Sultanate ruled by Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq of the Tughlaq Dynasty. He was opposed by Ahirs and Jats but the Sultanate at Delhi did nothing to stop him. After crossing the Indus river on 30 September 1398, he sacked Tulamba and massacred its inhabitants. Then he advanced and captured Multan by October.
He justified his campaign towards Delhi as a religious war against the Hindu religion practiced in the city and also as a chance for to gain more riches in a city that was lacking control. By all accounts, Timur's campaigns in India were marked by systematic slaughter and other atrocities on a truly massive scale inflicted mainly on the subcontinent's Hindu population.
Timur crossed the Indus River at Attock (now Pakistan) on 24 September 1398. His invasion did not go unopposed and he encountered resistance by the Governor of Meerut during the march to Delhi. Timur was still able to continue his approach to Delhi, arriving in 1398, to fight the armies of Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq, which had already been weakened by a succession struggle within the royal family.

The brutal capture of Delhi (1398):

The battle took place on 17 December 1398. Sultan Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq and Mallu Iqbal's[59] army had war elephants armored with chain mail and poison on their tusks.[60] With his Tatar forces afraid of the elephants, Timur ordered his men to dig a trench in front of their positions. Timur then loaded his camels with as much wood and hay as they could carry. When the war elephants charged, Timur set the hay on fire and prodded the camels with iron sticks, causing them to charge at the elephants howling in pain: Timur had understood that elephants were easily panicked. Faced with the strange spectacle of camels flying straight at them with flames leaping from their backs, the elephants turned around and stampeded back toward their own lines. Timur capitalized on the subsequent disruption in Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud Shah Tughluq's forces, securing an easy victory. Delhi was sacked and left in ruins. Before the battle for Delhi,

Timur executed 100,000 captives:

The capture of the Delhi Sultanate was one of Timur's greatest victories, arguably surpassing the likes of Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan because of the harsh conditions of the journey and the achievement of taking down one of the richest cities at the time.
After Delhi fell to Timur's army, uprisings by its citizens against the Turkic-Mongols began to occur, causing a bloody massacre within the city walls. After three days of citizens uprising within Delhi, it was said that the city reeked of decomposing bodies of its citizens with their heads being erected like structures and the bodies left as food for the birds.
Timur's invasion and destruction of Delhi continued the chaos that was still consuming India and the city would not be able to recover from the great loss it suffered for almost a century.

Legacy:

Timur's legacy is a mixed one. While Central Asia blossomed under his reign, other places such as Baghdad, Damascus, Delhi and other Arab, Georgian, Persian, and Indian cities were sacked and destroyed and their populations massacred. He was responsible for the effective destruction of the Christian Church in much of Asia. Thus, while Timur still retains a positive image in Muslim Central Asia, he is vilified by many in Arabia, Persia, and India, where some of his greatest atrocities were carried out. However, Ibn Khaldun praises Timur for having unified much of the Muslim world when other conquerors of the time could not.

Timur's military talents were unique. He planned all his campaigns years in advance, even planting barley for horse feed two years ahead of his campaigns. He used propaganda, in what is now called information warfare, as part of his tactics. His campaigns were preceded by the deployment of spies whose tasks included collecting information and spreading horrifying reports about the cruelty, size, and might of Timur’s armies. Such psychological warfare eventually weakened the morale of threatened populations and caused panic in the regions that he intended to invade.

For his time he had an uncharacteristic concern for his troops which inspired fierce loyalty from them. They were not paid, however; instead their incentives were from looting captured territory—a bounty that included horses, women, precious metals and stones; in other words whatever they, or their newly captured slaves, could carry away from the conquered lands.[

Timur's short-lived empire also melded the Turko-Persian tradition in Transoxiania, and in most of the territories which he incorporated into his fiefdom, Persian became the primary language of administration and literary culture (diwan), regardless of ethnicity. In addition, during his reign, some contributions to Turkic literature were penned, with Turkic cultural influence expanding and flourishing as a result. A literary form of Chagatai Turkic came into use alongside Persian as both a cultural and an official language

Timur became a relatively popular figure in Europe for centuries after his death, mainly because of his victory over the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid. The Ottoman armies were at the time invading Eastern Europe and Timur was ironically seen as a sort of ally

Timur has now been officially recognized as a national hero of newly independent Uzbekistan. His monument in Tashkent now occupies the place where Marx's statue once stood.

Forensic facial reconstruction of Timur:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Timur_reconstruction01.jpg

Full story: Timur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Timurid Dynasty:

The Timurid dynasty (Persian: تیموریان‎), self-designated Gurkānī (Persian: گوركانى‎), was a Persianate, Sunni Muslim dynasty of Turco-Mongol lineage which ruled over modern-day Iran, Afghanistan, much of Central Asia, as well as parts of contemporary Pakistan, India, Mesopotamia, Anatolia and the Caucasus. The dynasty was founded by Timur (Tamerlane) in the 14th century.
The Timurids lost control of most of Persia to the Safavid dynasty in 1501, but members of the dynasty continued to rule parts of Central Asia and parts of India, sometimes known as the Timurid Emirates. In the 16th century, Babur, a Timurid prince from Ferghana (modern Uzbekistan), invaded Kabulistan (modern Afghanistan) and established a small kingdom there, and from there 20 years later he invaded Hindustan to establish the Mughal Empire.

Timurid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What about both? there is no doubt to his ingenuity, but surely the acts that he committed, especially against his own muslim brothers were brutal and uncalled for.
 
And I don't understand why he was so fond of the kingdoms in spain, I do remember reading somewhere that he called one of the kings his son. I think this is the same time period as when the kingdoms in spain were gathering against muslim in Andalusia. How come they were so receptive and welcoming to his ambassadors?
 
He was both, but he was a bad statesman in spite of all the loot he had taken he still couldn't manage to develop a self-sufficient empire or civilization, he did however embellish and enrich Samarkand his capital but that was about it. Also not sure why you as a Turk @Charon seem to like him he attacked the Ottoman Empire in Battle of Ankara 1402 at a time the Ottoman's first tried to capture and besiege Constantinople decades before 1453.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Timur ofcourse is a savage barbarian compared to conquerors like Alexander. Before someone says he lived in a different age where atrocities were the norm compare him with Saladin who lived 300 years before him. Saladin was a mighty conqueror but a Chivalrous person.
 
Both.A product of his environment,steppe conquerors were barbarous by nature.He paid lip service to religion.It was the golden age of the steppe hordes.Gunpowder ended the trend and the industrial revolution eliminated it.
 
Persians don't curse him he was shia

Amir Temur venerated ‘Ahle Bait’ and had Shia soldiers in his army. However this does not make him a Shia.

Temur Barlas was a Sunni Muslim and a follower of Abdul Jabbar Khwarizmi, a Sunni Hanafi scholar.
His personal beliefs included veneration of the Sufis as well as some superstitious shamanistic traditions of the Turko-mongol pre Islamic culture. However when it came to killing he made no distinction; he warred against and killed Shias & Sunnis, Ismailies etc.; basically anyone who opposed him
 
Both.A product of his environment,steppe conquerors were barbarous by nature.He paid lip service to religion.It was the golden age of the steppe hordes.Gunpowder ended the trend and the industrial revolution eliminated it.

Yar Austerlitz, do you have any good, factual documentaries to recommend on Napolean and his life/consquests etc?

Sorry for being off-topic
 
He was both, but he was a bad statesman in spite of all the loot he had taken he still couldn't manage to develop a self-sufficient empire or civilization, he did however embellish and enrich Samarkand his capital but that was about it. Also not sure why you as a Turk @Charon seem to like him he attacked the Ottoman Empire in Battle of Ankara 1402 at a time the Ottoman's first tried to capture and besiege Constantinople decades before 1453.

I've never said that I like Timur. He was too cruel in my eyes but also a genious strategist. I have mixed feelings for the Ottoman empire. Of course I'm somehow proud that we had such a large and important empire and the conquest of Constantinopel but I still favour REAL Turkic empires like the Gökturks than Islamic empires like the Ottomans. Many Alevis don't like the Ottomans because they've massacred their ancestors just because they weren't Sunni Muslims. That's also the reason why I have mixed feelings about the Ottomans. I don't hate them but I also don't like them so much.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Timur slaughtered ancient Pakistanis like nobody else before or after him. So yes, he was a genius conqueror as per Pakistanis but a barbarian as per Indians. This thinking is consistent with national POVs. For example Indians unanimously see Taliban as barbarians, but not all Pakistanis.

Buddy, no one in clear conscience can call Taimur anyone other than a cruel slaughterer. Pakistani or no Pakistani makes no difference. Just his conduct is enough. He did use name of religion when it suited him, just like most Turkish kings who attacked India in addition to other places. Only really superficial people can try to defend him.

Yes he was a magnificent conqueror in a class all his own, but that does not make him any less cruel, disruptive, or rapacious. He is no hero, and only fools of the highest order may own him.
 
Timur slaughtered ancient Pakistanis like nobody else before or after him. So yes, he was a genius conqueror as per Pakistanis but a barbarian as per Indians. This thinking is consistent with national POVs. For example Indians unanimously see Taliban as barbarians, but not all Pakistanis.


He actually slaughtered your ancient Hindu forefathers and massacred and raped Indian Hindu women in northern India especially after the Sack of Delhi. They would line up the Hindu men and kill them one by one.
 
Back
Top Bottom