Awan68
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Wtf did i just read!!!, why would we become westernized when we have our own way of life, our own identity given to us by Allah n His prophet(pbuh), n that snake in the markhoors mouth are forces of jewish(israel) n christian(european n american) nations that u seem so desperate to please, this might be a rude awakening to a terrible world for an innocent child but son, they dont wana be brothers lol, read up the history of the last 1400 yrs n see how brotherly we were lol, i mean really wtf did i just read....Everything from the motto to the logo to every brick, every employee, every particle in the constitution of an agency is important.
This ought to be evident to the informed reader and explanation of the psychological & spiritual implications is beyond the scope of this piece.
The new/current ISI logo is the Markhor (literally meaning "sn-ke eater"):
This is a noble logo and aligns Pakistan with Western notions of the portrayal of sn-kes as unfortunate reptilian animals (evident in the Judeo - Christian - Islamic traditions or in the Ibrahamic faith).
The Markhor however is a goat : a land based and yet noble animal. Though the animal itself is good there are perhaps better images that the ISI may adopt (since the ISI is not merely an agency dealing with land based operations but aerial , naval and extra terrestrial intelligence gathering). A hint may be obtained by looking at the logos embraced by the Pakistan Air Force (and their pre occupation with the "Shaheen" or Eagle).
An Eagle is also capable of attacking and defeating reptiles like sn-kes. In Western thought the image of an eagle after capturing such reptiles in its claws is a good omen signifying an end to and overthrow of what is wrong and the advent of what is good and freeing.For just like if we are unaware of language we may not communicate : stories, the significance behind symbols (animals, races, lands, foods) informs us and allows us to intelligently navigate the world . For example that the de-il appeared to Adam RA and Huwaa RA in the garden in the form of a reptile is in the Torath (the precursor to the Quran and studied by the Ulama Karam but not understood by the average Muslim , most of whom do not know what the Quran is saying in Arabic either). Not knowing the significance behind the stories of Prophets & the revelations perhaps deprives us of the language necessary to communicate . When communicating with a child of Hazrath Ibrahim RA the symbol of a reptile means something but to an idol worshiper a reptile may mean something entirely different ( perhaps it may be an object of worship ).
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It is said that Timoleon saw an eagle carrying two snakes in its claws before his miraculous victory over the Siciliots. If Pakistanis and Muslims are unaware of the story (the biography) of Timoleon then it is imperative they read up on important , seminal works which may inform them.
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(Above: Timoleon views a good omen)
Similarly, to have a goat capture a reptile is a good beginning but it is important to consider the logo of an eagle carrying the reptile as a logo because both of them communicate the same story (end to what is wrong) but the eagle is a far nobler animal than the noble goat (just like a horse is a far nobler animal than a zebra for example). Now the image of an eagle capturing its prey is common in western traditions.
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(the image of an eagle capturing a sn-ke is common in western tradition)
In Western countries like Mexico the "Aztec eagle" is on the flag of the country. To someone who is learned when he sees the flag of Mexico with that symbol they will see 'friends' of what is good but to many Mexicans the story of Timoleon is not known. They know the story of the Aztec Eagle (an entirely different but similar story). Why is that? this is because the Mexicans are not entirely European or white perhaps & their moral code is not as high or as loving as that of the Europeans (as of yet). When the people of Mexico are loved, their lands are become like the lands of Europe and they choose high moral values they too will learn the grand story of Timoleon as told by Plutarch.
Because we wish to see Pakistan become westernized and modernized this gift and suggestion is shared with Pakistan, Pakistanis and the Muslims so they may one day become fair and the Christian & the Jew may say "the Muslim & the Pakistani have loved us more than our own! they have more than fulfilled their familial love for us! and gone beyond it! "
Glory to the God of our father Ibrahim RA , the God of Prophet Israel RA, to the God of Musa RA and to the God of Muhammad SAW : one God & the creator of all !
What is wrong with u man????We love the British, they are our allies, our friends, our co religionists and in many cases the biological fathers of the children of the country of Pakistan. Just like we love our Iranians of course and the Iranian people are part of the best families in Pakistan (like the Bhuttos for example). England is adored by us Pakistanis but it does not mean we love Iran / Russia any less ... (quite the opposite) it is because of our fathers in England that we have come to love the Iranians and the Russians.
You bring up an important point the goat (in this case markhor) signifies an animal that is noble but not as flattering ... (in some traditions the goat is not even a sympathetic character but us Pakistanis don't know this just like some Indians don't know or related differently to some animals).
We respect that , but the peacock and the eagles are also just as good and even better (as people have already mentioned).
Pakistan has many eagles and falcons , if you had to choose between an magnificent eagle or a peacock or a magnificent goat , what would you choose? It is just a suggestion. No offense intended.
As mentioned earlier the goat has some incorrect connotations in the Western traditions. In pre-christian traditions the goat was identified with the God Pan (not the highest God : he was the God of revelry etc.). In post Christian traditions and in Judaism / Islam goats sometimes make a holy sacrifice (they take away the sins of the world). You have heard of the term "scape goat"? (for expiation of sins). Why have this connotation attached to the logo even if Hazrath Eisa RA was viewed as expiator of sins (by the Christians)? It is a noble symbol ... and it reflects positively upon the ISI nonetheless ...between the various animals...
Oh Masha allah brother Aawish ... Pakistan literally means "Holy Land " ("Pak" = holy "Stan"= land) ... Pakistan and Israel are both beloved by the God of Ibrahim RA and the British (Protestant Christians) ... may all love Pakistan but above all may the most High God love Pakistan and the defenders of Pakistan and turn our enemies into our friends.
Now he wants to make all the people in the world beautiful, im begining to enjoy thisYes they are considered equivalent to a royal family in Pakistan and abroad. Some Pakistanis like my own family may not like the PPP or the Bhuttos (and many in the armed forces do not like the Bhuttos) but they are considered loved/nay adored at home and abroad. The Sharifs are another respected family, the Qureshis, the Khans (Ayub, Imran, Abdul Qadir etc.) . Some descendants of Mughals (Rajputs etc.) and the Iqbal family are also well respected.
The idea however is to make all people as beautiful, smart and wealthy as the best people in the world (not just the Iranians, Brits or Swedish and Norwegians) but to make everyone beautiful and attractive and wealthy and blessed.
Now god will make our enemies into our friends, guys we need to tell pak army to pack up on loc cause its just in, breaking news, "GOD IS GOING TO MAKE OUR ENEMIES INTO FRIENDS, hell yeah...and the silver lining hereis god loves israel so we must love it too, himaliya se aunchi, chasmon se methi pak israel dosti zindabadWe respect that , but the peacock and the eagles are also just as good and even better (as people have already mentioned).
Pakistan has many eagles and falcons , if you had to choose between an magnificent eagle or a peacock or a magnificent goat , what would you choose? It is just a suggestion. No offense intended.
As mentioned earlier the goat has some incorrect connotations in the Western traditions. In pre-christian traditions the goat was identified with the God Pan (not the highest God : he was the God of revelry etc.). In post Christian traditions and in Judaism / Islam goats sometimes make a holy sacrifice (they take away the sins of the world). You have heard of the term "scape goat"? (for expiation of sins). Why have this connotation attached to the logo even if Hazrath Eisa RA was viewed as expiator of sins (by the Christians)? It is a noble symbol ... and it reflects positively upon the ISI nonetheless ...between the various animals...
Oh Masha allah brother Aawish ... Pakistan literally means "Holy Land " ("Pak" = holy "Stan"= land) ... Pakistan and Israel are both beloved by the God of Ibrahim RA and the British (Protestant Christians) ... may all love Pakistan but above all may the most High God love Pakistan and the defenders of Pakistan and turn our enemies into our friends.
@BHarwana got some entertainment here man...
On the contrary thats the symbol of those whom isi has been giving nightmares for the past few decades, u knw some real intense markhor on goat shit