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This War Guaranteed That India Would Dominate South Asia

Just to clear the air, National Interest is owned by these guys:
https://cftni.org/
Henry Kissinger is one of their honorary Chairmen...
They have several contributors with a military background




Michael Peck is not one of those with a military background.

Just because Henry Kissinger is an honorary chairman, doesn't exclude the national interest from lobbying for indian interests.
 
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Michael Peck is not one of those with a military background.

Just because Henry Kissinger is an honorary chairman, doesn't exclude the national interest from lobbying for indian interests.

honestly I have not seen them lobbying for anyone in particular. Not here to start an argument either. You would have to show me evidence of bias. Agreed that Michael Peck may not be the greatest out there.

Keep in mind during 1971, Kissinger and Nixon were both very anti-Indian. Nixon is the one that sent the fleet to the Bay of Bengal.
 
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honestly I have not seen them lobbying for anyone in particular. Not here to start an argument either. You would have to show me evidence of bias. Agreed that Michael Peck may not be the greatest out there.

Keep in mind during 1971, Kissinger and Nixon were both very anti-Indian. Nixon is the one that sent the fleet to the Bay of Bengal.



Nixon didn't send them. Again, another indian myth and fantasy.........:lol: They were conducting war games that had been planned before the 1971 war between Pakistan and indian......:lol:
 
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Here's What You Need To Remember: Pakistan’s humiliation in 1971 spurred it into developing an atomic bomb. With India also armed with atomic weapons, South Asia now lives under the shadow of nuclear war.
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This is what happens when you chop a nation in half.

Before December 3, 1971, Pakistan was a country suffering from a split personality disorder. When British India became independent in 1947, the country was divided into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. The problem was that East Pakistan and West Pakistan were almost a thousand miles apart, and wedged in between them was archenemy India. Imagine if the United States only consisted of the East Coast and West Coast, and Russia controlled all of North America in between.


Thirteen days later, Pakistan had been amputated. Indian troops had conquered East Pakistan, which became the new nation of Bangladesh. More than ninety thousand Pakistani soldiers were taken prisoner, half the Pakistani Navy had been sunk and the Indian Air Force came out on top. It was total humiliation, and not just for Pakistan. The United States and Britain sent aircraft carriers in a futile attempt to intimidate India, and ended up facing off against Soviet warships. Pakistan’s defeat also spurred its rulers to begin the development of nuclear weapons.
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The 1971 India-Pakistan War, the third major conflict between the two nations in twenty-five years, was sparked by unrest in East Pakistan. The Bengalis of East Pakistan, who constituted 54 percent of Pakistan’s population at the time, chafed under the rule of West Pakistan. The two Pakistans belonged to different ethnic groups and spoke different languages.

Bengali demands for autonomy were rebuffed. By mid-1971, an East Pakistan guerrilla movement had emerged, supported by India. Pakistan’s military-controlled government cracked down hard, killing up to three million Bengalis in what has been described as a genocide. By November, both India and Pakistan were preparing for war.

On December 3, Pakistan launched a preemptive air strike against Indian airfields, ironically trying to emulate how the Israeli Air Force had destroyed Egyptian airpower in 1967. The difference was that the Israelis committed two hundred aircraft and wiped out nearly five hundred Egyptian aircraft in a few hours; Pakistan committed fifty aircraft and inflicted little damage. The air war featured the full panoply of Cold War jets, pitting Pakistani F-104 Starfighters, F-86 Sabres, MiG-19s and B-57 Canberras against Indian MiG-21s, Sukhoi-7s, Hawker Hunters and Folland Gnats, as well as Hawker Sea Hawks flying from the Indian carrier Vikrant.

Both sides claimed victory in the air war. Chuck Yeager, who was in Pakistan advising their air force, claimed the Pakistanis “whipped their asses.” The Indians claim Yeager was crazy. However, it does appear that India had the upper hand in the air, controlling the skies over East Pakistan and losing about forty-five aircraft to Pakistan’s seventy-five. The maneuverable little Indian Gnat, a British-made lightweight fighter (its predecessor was called the Midge), proved so successful against Pakistani F-86s that the Indians dubbed it the “Sabre Slayer.”

At sea, there is no question that India won. The Indian Navy dispatched missile boats, armed with Soviet-made Styx missiles, to strike the western port of Karachi, sinking or badly damaging two Pakistani destroyers and three merchant ships, as well as fuel tanks. Indian ships blockaded East Pakistan from reinforcements and supplies. Notable was India’s use of the carrier Vikrant to conduct air strikes on coastal targets, as well as conducting an amphibious landing on Pakistani territory.

Pakistan retaliated by dispatching the submarine Ghazi to mine Indian ports. While stalked by an Indian destroyer, the Ghazi mysteriously blew up.

As for the ground war, the best that can be said is that if Napoleon himself had faced Pakistan’s strategic dilemma, he would have sulked off to St. Helena. Isolated by land and blockaded by sea, no army could have defended East Pakistan against even a moderately competent foe, let alone the nine Indian divisions that quickly captured the East Pakistan capital of Dhaka. East Pakistani forces surrendered on December 16.

To add insult to the defeat of Pakistan and its proudly Muslim rulers, the Indian campaign was planned by Maj. Gen. J. F. R. Jacob—an Indian Jew descended from a family that fled Baghdad in the eighteenth century.

One issue that hampered Pakistan’s war effort would soon become familiar in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and other ethnically divided nations. In 1971, Bengalis comprised a significant part of the Pakistani military, especially in technical jobs.

Meanwhile, the superpowers were flexing their muscles. Despite its cruelty toward the Bengalis, and the opposition of U.S. diplomats, President Richard Nixon and National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger backed Pakistan against pro-Soviet India (see the Nixon-Kissinger transcripts here). Task Force 74, centered on the aircraft carrier Enterprise, steamed into the Bay of Bengal, as did the British carrier Eagle. Why India would have been intimidated into a cease-fire, even as its tanks were rolling into Dhaka, is a mystery. America’s attempt to deter India from defeating Pakistan became a case study of the limitations of relying on the threat of force to compel other nations to change their behavior.

In fact, what the U.S. Navy accomplished was to chill U.S.-Indian relations for years. Even more disturbing were the Soviet cruisers, destroyers and submarines shadowing Task Force 74. A war between two Southwest Asian nations could have triggered a superpower showdown at sea, and perhaps World War III.

In the end, India had demonstrated its military superiority. Pakistan lost half its territory and population. Perhaps more important, Pakistani illusions that an Islamic army could rout the “weak” Hindus had been disproved. Following the 1947 and 1965 wars, the 1971 war was the third major conflict between India and Pakistan. It was also the last. Despite some hostilities in Kargil and other spots on the border, India and Pakistan have not fought a major war in forty-five years.

Unfortunately, Pakistan’s humiliation in 1971 spurred it into developing an atomic bomb. With India also armed with atomic weapons, South Asia now lives under the shadow of nuclear war. The next major India-Pakistan clash could be the last.

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Michael Peck is a frequent contributor to the National Interest and is a regular writer for many outlets like WarIsBoring. He can be found on Twitter and Facebook. This article first appeared several years ago.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-guaranteed-india-would-dominate-south-asia-145092

After loosing 2 wars. Half of the Kashmir and capitalizing on internal revolt of 1000 mile away province India is chest thumping ... lolz ...27th Feb is a proof of who dominates South Asia...

India dominates the world but in bollywood only
 
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Nixon didn't send them. Again, another indian myth and fantasy.........:lol: They were conducting war games that had been planned before the 1971 war between Pakistan and indian......:lol:

huh? wrong! it was called task Force 74 and was sent to the Bay of Bengal to "evacuate" American citizens from Dacca. Gosh I remember this well, I was a young man then! Here is more information for you. The 7th fleet was in South East Asia then, but there were no war games going on then.

Enterprise departed from the Gulf of Tonkin — where it was deployed for the Vietnam War — on Dec. 10 and set sail for the Bay of Bengal, arriving on Dec. 15.

https://warisboring.com/in-1971-the-u-s-navy-almost-fought-the-soviets-over-bangladesh/
 
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huh? wrong! it was called task Force 74 and was sent to the Bay of Bengal to "evacuate" American citizens from Dacca. Gosh I remember this well, I was a young man then! Here is more information for you. The 7th fleet was in South East Asia then, but there were no war games going on then.

Enterprise departed from the Gulf of Tonkin — where it was deployed for the Vietnam War — on Dec. 10 and set sail for the Bay of Bengal, arriving on Dec. 15.

https://warisboring.com/in-1971-the-u-s-navy-almost-fought-the-soviets-over-bangladesh/




Do you honestly believe that White Americans would have fought White Russians over Brown-Skinned Muslim Pakistanis???????...........WTF!!!!!!!...........:lol:
 
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Do you honestly believe that White Americans would have fought White Russians over Brown-Skinned Muslim Pakistanis???????...........WTF!!!!!!!...........:lol:

Of course not! and they backed off once the Soviet submarine force was sighted. It was a bluff plain and simple. One that did not work. You guys were pro- US and India was in the Soviet orbit, that's why we even made the effort. Has nothing to do with white, brown or any other skin color. Please don't throw the race card into this
 
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huh? wrong! it was called task Force 74 and was sent to the Bay of Bengal to "evacuate" American citizens from Dacca. Gosh I remember this well, I was a young man then! Here is more information for you. The 7th fleet was in South East Asia then, but there were no war games going on then.

Enterprise departed from the Gulf of Tonkin — where it was deployed for the Vietnam War — on Dec. 10 and set sail for the Bay of Bengal, arriving on Dec. 15.

https://warisboring.com/in-1971-the-u-s-navy-almost-fought-the-soviets-over-bangladesh/
You are wasting your breath. Nixon even ensured the continued survival of West Pakistan as India had already captured Chachro and could have literally walked into West Pakistan. Nixon didn't want a CEATO / SENTO member be completely occupied by a Soviet ally.
 
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You are wasting your breath. Nixon even ensured the continued survival of West Pakistan as India had already captured Chachro and could have literally walked into West Pakistan. Nixon didn't want a CEATO / SENTO member be completely occupied by a Soviet ally.

It was all about cold war politics and proxy wars. The US and USSR did not ever go to blows one on one. The risk of escalation was too great. Both sides acknowledged that.
 
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It was all about cold war politics and proxy wars. The US and USSR did not ever go to blows one on one. The risk of escalation was too great. Both sides acknowledged that.

The Pakistanis were the conduit between the Americans and the Chinese. Nixon and Kissinger absolutely loathed Indira Gandhi. They ignored the famous Blood telegram sent from the US Consulate in Dacca. But Pakistanis don't acknowledge that the Americans saved West Pakistan. They kept telling their supporters than Americans and Chinese troops were coming to fight the Indians. Realization only struck AFTER the surrender. I can only imagine what the West Pakistanis must have done then - surely there must have been riots.
 
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The biggest reason why India mostly dominates South Asia (though we've seen massive push back in the last 5ish years) is because of the war on terror, and the US wanting to counter China.

It's not a secret that Pakistan was doing better economically than India, before the war on terror began. It's also no secret that as soon as China became a threat to US dominance, India experienced massive economic growth and success, mostly related to foreign investment mainly from the US and Western Europe.
 
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I think Pakistan's boom years were from the early 60s to around 1989. After the Soviet withdrawal and collapse of the USSR, Pakistan's nuclear program came under the cross hairs and the Pressler amendments and sanctions kicked in. I think that's when the decline of Pakistan's economy began. I remember watching Pakistan's PM ( Benazir) on evening news make an appeal to release F-16s that Pakistan had already paid for but withheld...
 
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You are wasting your breath. Nixon even ensured the continued survival of West Pakistan as India had already captured Chachro and could have literally walked into West Pakistan. Nixon didn't want a CEATO / SENTO member be completely occupied by a Soviet ally.






If that were true, then india would have invaded Pakistan, stayed their for a week and then pulled back. They didn't because they couldn't. It's one thing to fight an enemy of only 40,000 that is 3000 kms away from home and is surrounded by 100 million hostile bengalis and a further 500 million hostile indians, it's anothet thing to attack the Pakistani mainland and even ATTEMPT to invade it. Even now, india is more than 7× bigger than Pakistan and has the full backing of the West and Russia yet remains FAR TOO WEAK and powerless to take on the Pakistani military.

I think Pakistan's boom years were from the early 60s to around 1989. After the Soviet withdrawal and collapse of the USSR, Pakistan's nuclear program came under the cross hairs and the Pressler amendments and sanctions kicked in. I think that's when the decline of Pakistan's economy began. I remember watching Pakistan's PM ( Benazir) on evening news make an appeal to release F-16s that Pakistan had already paid for but withheld...





But CPEC is now taking care of our economy that got scuppered because of the American war on terror 2001 - 2019................it's really funny when indians like you have to hide behind an American flag and try to be something that they are not..........:lol:....... :azn:
 
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wow! You think I am an Indian...amusing at best. I am not biased either way towards India or Pakistan. I have both Indian and Pakistani friends and they seem to get along just fine here..sorry bud. Born and raised in Texas and loving it
 
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There's no denying that Pakistan lost 1971. In history, many renowned empires have lost wars and then won again.

The geography of Bangladesh with a six time bigger hostile land in between that was actively participating in conspiring against Pakistan, and the internal revolt meant that Pakistan lost even before the war started.

There is no shame in accepting the defeat and lets accept that India played well in fueling the communal riots in Bangladesh and was successful in seeding hate between two populations of a country.

An army can fight many times larger enemy without fear if the population is on its back. When a soldier sees love of people who are waiting for their soldiers to come back as victors, soldiers also put their lives at risk and do not hesitate in sacrificing it when needed. However, when a soldier sees hate in the eyes of a population which he is fighting for, he loses his will and strength to fight and just accepts the defeat. This is exactly what happened in 1971 when people didn't want to live with the western part and they didn't consider Pakistan army their own army. Our army was considered an occupying force by a big chunk of the population and there was a civil war going on. India fully took advantage (as it is in Indian nature to not leave such an opportunity.. they are also famous for backstabbing.. if anyone doubts this fact, just keep looking at Afghan situation.. India can accept Taliban government if Taliban throw a tiny bone to them).

That said, whether that defeat (which was more of a civil war than a one-to-one military conflict) didn't instill any fear in the hearts of Pakistanis. Why? because we still think it wasn't a conflict on equal footing.. Was India able to subdue Pakistan as a result of 1971 war? Could it stop Pakistan from becoming a nuclear power? Has India been able to control Kashmir movement and stop Pakistan from supporting Kashmiris? The answer for all these questions is a big "No".

In most part of last four decades, Pakistan got involved with another neighbor. There was a huge influx of refugees that put a dent on economy big time (and they are still here). On one side of the border, there was a hostile country that doesn't leave a single opportunity to harm us, on the other side we have two countries, one is continuously at war, and the other is under the strictest sanctions. Any country's economy is heavily dependent on the trade with its neighbors, the passages through those neighbors give way to trade with other countries too. Pakistan despite its amazing geography couldn't obtain any benefit due to wars, sanctions and hostilities around her. Result is that we lagged behind, but not by a huge margin. India, which hasn't faced any such issues should have been at least competing with China, but we see where India stands despite huge investments from the west. We can say that Indian performance is far from impressive.

Now is the opportunity for Pakistan to capitalize what India is going through.. just a Bangladesh like situation. If you see, Indian confidence is overflowing (same as in Pakistan before 1971).. This over confidence is the recipe for disaster.

If war breaks out tomorrow, internal civil situation in Kashmir may give us an opportunity of a lifetime.. specially when our synergy with China is at peak. We are getting a lot of military hardware from an emerging superpower and there is no fear of sanctions (that has always been the case with Pakistan while India enjoyed full access to Russian hardware). I don't usually talk about two front war, but the chances are bright that if war breaks out, for India, it will be a two front war in which it will lose Kashmir to Pakistan and China.

We have also not taken into account another actor in the region... Afghan Taliban. By nature, they are sympathetic towards oppressed Muslims all around the world. For them, politics doesn't exist and we have seen this in the last 20 years of conflicts. Good thing is that Taliban are fully in line with how Pakistan thinks.

So yes, India couldn't gain much after 1971s victory although it could have capitalized that. Next war will be an interesting war between the two nuclear armed nations and in my opinion, India has to lose a lot in that war.

@Mangus Ortus Novem @Blacklight @StormBreaker @Ace of Spades
 
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