"They go by the name Talib, but we know they come from ISI"

[Secur]

Congress turned its attention on the CIA and as a result severely reformed it in the late 1970s link. That would be a most productive path for Pakistan to follow, don't you think?

What gives CIA the right to destabilize every country and regime the US thinks unsuitable for its interests ? Talking of reforms dear ! Did you ever find that WMD in Iraq ? The thing is it is very easy to blame others just like this Nusrat guy is doing ... Why ? It is way too obvious ... Even with the most modern army on his back , he's having no luck fighting the Taliban

 

[Secur]

The Pakistani military betrayed its own people in 1971, slaughtering tens of thousands in East Pakistan. At great moral cost President Nixon stuck with the GoP to ensure U.S. "credibility" towards its allies. Is that the kind of "ally" you seek from America today?

I wont deny that it was a great blunder but US backstabbed us by promising to send the 7th fleet which never came ... The same USA deserted us after its goals were achieved in Afghanistan ! Are we talking about that kind of ally ?

 

[Solomon2]

What gives CIA the right to destabilize every country and regime the US thinks unsuitable for its interests?

A diversion and a gross exaggeration. The topical question is, what gives the Pakistan military the right to destabilize its neighbors who otherwise would desire peace?

Talking of reforms dear ! Did you ever find that WMD in Iraq ?

I doubt one has to do with the other.

The thing is it is very easy to blame others -

And extraordinarily difficult for Pakistanis to blame themselves, yes? You might blame your leaders, but apparently it takes a cataclysm for a Pakistani to blame himself for doing nothing or collaborating with evil. This Pakistan's military leaders know well - and they exploit it to the full.

Until you tire of it, you'll never really rule yourselves. What was the inscription the Brits had over their headquarters in Delhi?

"Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to Liberty. It is a privilege that must be earned before it can be enjoyed"

India's leaders called for early elections; they believed in liberty for the people. Pakistan's leaders delayed an honest vote until 1971, then violated the result. Pakistan was founded by an elite that believed in Liberty for themselves, not the people, and who mean to keep it that way. You are now living the result. Why aren't you trying to change it?

 

[Secur]

A diversion and a gross exaggeration. The topical question is, what gives the Pakistan military the right to destabilize its neighbors who otherwise would desire peace?

Destabilize its neighbors ? Who poked his nose into Afghanistan after Soviet Invasion ? wasn't it USA who sent arms to Mujahideen for its own personal gain ? ... We are fighting your war , its not ours ... The same dear Taliban have now turned against the USA ... How can you blame us for the war you started yourself ? ... Diversion ? something Americans are good at ... Like shifting blames after loosing in Afghanistan huh ?

I doubt one has to do with the other.

Talking of reforms would surely mean that CIA turned over a new leaf which isn't surely the case ...

India's leaders called for early elections; they believed in liberty for the people. Pakistan's leaders delayed an honest vote until 1971, then violated the result. Pakistan was founded by an elite that believed in Liberty for themselves, not the people, and who mean to keep it that way. You are now living the result. Why aren't you trying to change it?

I wish they give the same liberty to Kashmiris by ordering a impartial plebiscite ! So suddenly , India'a great country promoting world peace ?

 

[Solomon2]

Destabilize its neighbors ? Who poked his nose into Afghanistan after Soviet Invasion ?

I think you need to do a little more reading here. It was Pakistan that started stirring up trouble in Afghanistan in the early 70s. The U.S. winked at it, then joined in as junior partner after the Soviet invasions. It was U.S. military and Saudi money, but the Pakistani military directed it.

Talking of reforms would surely mean that CIA turned over a new leaf which isn't surely the case ...

It most surely did.

I wish they give the same liberty to Kashmiris by ordering a impartial plebiscite !

Me, too. But do you think that if such a plebiscite were held today the Kashmiris would choose a messy, terror-stricken Pakistan or a confident, prosperous, multi-religious India? Pakistan's leadership has believed the latter since 1965. That is why the ISI has engaged in a campaign to assassinate pro-independence Kashmiris for at least the past two decades. [Shuja Nawaz]

Shabbat approaches, gotta go...

 

[Secur]

I think you need to do a little more reading here. It was Pakistan that started stirring up trouble in Afghanistan in the early 70s. The U.S. winked at it, then joined in as junior partner after the Soviet invasions. It was U.S. military and Saudi money, but the Pakistani military directed it.

I think you need to get your facts straight out ... Begin studying here Soviet war in Afghanistan

What sort of trouble did Pakistan cause in the 1970's ? If even i accept for the sake of the argument that Government of Pakistan intervened in Afghanistan , then why did US wait for 9 years after Soviets came ? The sole purpose of US involvement in Afghanistan was to defeat USSR ... Little did they know , that the same freedom fighters will come to their necks barely 2 decades after

The United States began training insurgents in, and directing propaganda broadcasts into Afghanistan from Pakistan in 1978.[81] Then, in early 1979, U.S. foreign service officers began meeting insurgent leaders to determine their needs.[82] One month after the Soviet invasion, US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski actually flew to Pakistan where on the Afghan border near the Khyber pass, he motivated the local muhajhideen: “We know of their deep belief in God, and we are confident their struggle will succeed. That land over there is yours, you’ll go back to it one day because your fight will prevail, and you’ll have your homes and your mosques back again. Because your cause is right and God is on your side.” [83] According to Brzezinski, CIA financial aid to the insurgents within Afghanistan was approved in July 1979, six months before the Soviet invasion, though after the Soviets were already covertly engaged there. Arms were sent after the formal invasion.[84][85]

It most surely did.

I dont really think that providing arms and drugs to rebel groups to support US interests in foreign countries , spreading misinformation and lies through propaganda warfare ( as in Iraq ) counts as turning over a new leaf ... Is it the other way around in US ?

Covert United States foreign regime change actions
The list is extensive !!!

 

[Stumper]

Begin studying here Soviet war in Afghanistan

Can i recommend Ahmed Rashid, instead?

The sole purpose of US involvement in Afghanistan was to defeat USSR ... Little did they know , that the same freedom fighters will come to their necks barely 2 decades after

In a way you are right. Just before bowing out, The Russian FM Shevardnadze requested Pak-USA to consider a compromise.. A temporary power sharing between Mujhadeen's and the Najibullah Govt. This was to allow peaceful transfer of Powers -- avoiding the civil war.

You guys refused. The Talibs remain un-defeated thereafter.

Maybe our world history would have been different, had you and USA, looked beyond your "Revenge-Vietnam" strategy!

 

[SMC]

Since Pakistan-Afghanistan border is sealed now, they should stop complaining.

 

[Bhairava]

The sole purpose of US involvement in Afghanistan was to defeat USSR ... Little did they know , that the same freedom fighters will come to their necks barely 2 decades after.

The United States began training insurgents in, and directing propaganda broadcasts into Afghanistan from Pakistan in 1978.[81] Then, in early 1979, U.S. foreign service officers began meeting insurgent leaders to determine their needs.[82] One month after the Soviet invasion, US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski actually flew to Pakistan where on the Afghan border near the Khyber pass, he motivated the local muhajhideen: “We know of their deep belief in God, and we are confident their struggle will succeed. That land over there is yours, you’ll go back to it one day because your fight will prevail, and you’ll have your homes and your mosques back again. Because your cause is right and God is on your side.” [83] According to Brzezinski, CIA financial aid to the insurgents within Afghanistan was approved in July 1979, six months before the Soviet invasion, though after the Soviets were already covertly engaged there. Arms were sent after the formal invasion.

You need a knowledge punishment in grossly misinterpreting history as you have just done.

US trained Mujaheddin != Taliban.

The remants of US trained Mujaheddin are now what is called the Northern Alliance. The Taliban were a fanatic bunch of illiterates who rose to power in 94 with the active backing of the ISI and long after the US had left Afghanistan.

 

[Stumper]

The remants of US trained Mujaheddin are now what is called the Northern Alliance. The Taliban were a fanatic bunch of illiterates who rose to power in 94 with the active backing of the ISI and long after the US had left Afghanistan.

Sir, this is grossly incorrect. To be precise, Taliban , as a group, existed way before the commies arrived at the afghan door.
Naserullah Babbar is allegedly the so called architect for this retard lot.
And ....If not for the US supplied Stingers, they would never had the success that they enjoyed.

 

[very]

Sir, this is grossly incorrect. To be precise, Taliban , as a group, existed way before the commies arrived at the afghan door.
Naserullah Babbar is allegedly the so called architect for this retard lot.
And ....If not for the US supplied Stingers, they would never had the success that they enjoyed.

I am wondering as nobody is supporting them now so howcome they are still holding the ground with success against US/NATO??

 

[Luftwaffe]

You need a knowledge punishment in grossly misinterpreting history as you have just done.
US trained Mujaheddin != Taliban.
The remants of US trained Mujaheddin are now what is called the Northern Alliance. The Taliban were a fanatic bunch of illiterates who rose to power in 94 with the active backing of the ISI and long after the US had left Afghanistan.

As per people from Raegen and the current US administration "hillary" many in N. Alliance and the Taliban of the current times are the mujaheddins of 80's and 90s and many of AQ work force is also the ex-mujaheddin lot with the active backing of Gulf Funding since 1996 and now the current funding by US against Pakistan and previously funded immensly during soviet-afghan war.

Hence you are proven wrong once again.

 

[Secur]

You need a knowledge punishment in grossly misinterpreting history as you have just done.

US trained Mujaheddin != Taliban.

The remants of US trained Mujaheddin are now what is called the Northern Alliance. The Taliban were a fanatic bunch of illiterates who rose to power in 94 with the active backing of the ISI and long after the US had left Afghanistan.

I dont think anyone can distort history ... Perhaps you will do better if you read up a little on Afghan history

 

[Luftwaffe]

I dont think anyone can distort history ... Perhaps you will do better if you read up a little on Afghan history

These are paranoia delusional folks, Let me post something which will rattle them.

The USSR's invasion of Afghanistan was deliberately provoked. In his 1996 memoirs, former CIA director Robert Gates writes that the American intelligence services actually began to aid in all areas the mujahudeen guerrillas in Afghanistan not after the Soviet invasion of that country, but six months before it. And in a 1998 interview with the French weekly magazine Le Nouvel Oberservateur,former president Carter's National Security Adviser,"Zbigniew Brzezinski, unambiguously confirmed Gates's assertion.

"According to the official version of history,"Brzezinski told the Nouvel Oberservateur,, "CIA aid to the mujahideen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed it was July 3, 1979, that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet intervention."

When asked whether he regretted these actions, Brzezinski replied:
"Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trp and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam War."

Nouvel Observateur: "And neither do you regret having supported Islamic fundamentalism, whih has given arms and advice to future terrorists?"

Brzezinski: "What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated ******* or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"

 

[Bhairava]

These are paranoia delusional folks, Let me post something which will rattle them.

The USSR's invasion of Afghanistan was deliberately provoked. In his 1996 memoirs, former CIA director Robert Gates writes that the American intelligence services actually began to aid in all areas the mujahudeen guerrillas in Afghanistan not after the Soviet invasion of that country, but six months before it. And in a 1998 interview with the French weekly magazine Le Nouvel Oberservateur,former president Carter's National Security Adviser,"Zbigniew Brzezinski, unambiguously confirmed Gates's assertion.

"According to the official version of history,"Brzezinski told the Nouvel Oberservateur,, "CIA aid to the mujahideen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed it was July 3, 1979, that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet intervention."

When asked whether he regretted these actions, Brzezinski replied:
"Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trp and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam War."

Nouvel Observateur: "And neither do you regret having supported Islamic fundamentalism, whih has given arms and advice to future terrorists?"

Brzezinski: "What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated ******* or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"

I dont think anyone can distort history ... Perhaps you will do better if you read up a little on Afghan history

^ Parts Beyond repair.

Taliban was born in 1994 and the US left the region in 90-91.

Ignorance is bliss.