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There Is Only One Way to Defeat ISIS

anant_s

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There Is Only One Way to Defeat ISIS
We must hold accountable our Middle Eastern "allies"—the states and bankers and political elites—who persist in funding mass murder.


BY CHARLES P. PIERCE
NOV 14, 2015 @ 1:57 PM


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There was a strange stillness in the news on Saturday morning, a Saturday morning that came earlier in Paris than it did in Des Moines, a city in Iowa, one of the United States of America. The body count had stabilized. The new information came at a slow, stately pace, as though life were rearranging itself out of quiet respect for the dead. The new information came at a slow and stately pace and it arranged itself in the way that you suspected it would arrange itself when the first accounts of the mass murder began to spread out over the wired world. There has been the predictable howling from predictable people. (Judith Miller? Really? This is an opinion the world needed to hear?) There has been the straining to wedge the events of Friday night into the Procrustean nonsense of an American presidential campaign. There will be a debate among the three Democratic candidates for president in Des Moines on Saturday night. I suspect that the moderators had to toss out a whole raft of questions they already had prepared. Everything else is a distraction. It is the stately, stillness of the news itself that matters.
The attacks were a brilliantly coordinated act of war. They were a brilliantly coordinated act of pure terrorism, beyond rhyme but not beyond reason. They struck at the most cosmopolitan parts of the most cosmopolitan city in the world. They struck out at assorted sectors of western popular culture. They struck out at sports, at pop music, and at simple casual dining. They struck out at an ordinary Friday night's entertainment. The attacks were a brilliantly coordinated statement of political and social purpose, its intent clear and unmistakable. The attacks were a brilliantly coordinated act of fanatical ideological and theological Puritanism, brewed up in the dark precincts of another of mankind's monotheisms. They were not the first of these. (The closest parallel to what happened in Paris is what happened in Mumbai in 2008. In fact, Mumbai went on alert almost immediately after the news broke.) They, alas, are likely not going to be the last.

The stillness of the news is a place of refuge and of reason on yet another day in which both of these qualities are predictably in short supply. It is a place beyond unfocused rage, and beyond abandoned wrath, and beyond unleashed bigotry and hate. It is a place where Friday night's savagery is recognized and memorialized, but it is not put to easy use for trivial purposes. The stillness of the news, if you seek it out, is a place where you can think, sadly and clearly, about what should happen next.

These are a few things that will not solve the terrible and tangled web of causation and violence in which the attacks of Friday night were spawned. A 242-ship Navy will not stop one motivated murderous fanatic from emptying the clip of an AK-47 into the windows of a crowded restaurant. The F-35 fighter plane will not stop a group of motivated murderous fanatics from detonating bombs at a soccer match. A missile-defense shield in Poland will not stop a platoon of motivated murderous fanatics from opening up in a jammed concert hall, or taking hostages, or taking themselves out with suicide belts when the police break down the doors. American soldiers dying in the sands of Syria or Iraq will not stop the events like what happened in Paris from happening again because American soldiers dying in the sands of Syria or Iraq will be dying there in combat against only the most obvious physical manifestation of a deeper complex of ancient causes and ancient effects made worse by the reach of the modern technology of bloodshed and murder. Nobody's death is ever sacrifice enough for that.
A 242-SHIP NAVY WILL NOT STOP ONE MOTIVATED MURDEROUS FANATIC FROM EMPTYING THE CLIP OF AN AK-47 INTO THE WINDOWS OF A CROWDED RESTAURANT.
Abandoning the Enlightenment values that produced democracy will not plumb the depths of the vestigial authoritarian impulse that resides in us all, the wish for kings, the desire for order, to be governed, and not to govern. Flexing and posturing and empty venting will not cure the deep sickness in the human spirit that leads people to slaughter the innocent in the middle of a weekend's laughter. The expression of bigotry and hatred will not solve the deep desperation in the human heart that leads people to kill their fellow human beings and then blow themselves up as a final act of murderous vengeance against those they perceive to be their enemies, seen and unseen, real and imagined. Tough talk in the context of what happened in Paris is as empty as a bell rung at the bottom of a well.

Francois Hollande, the French president who was at the soccer game that was attacked, has promised that France will wage "pitiless war" against the forces that conceived and executed the attacks. Most wars are pitiless, but not all of them are fought with the combination of toughness and intelligence that this one will require. This was a lesson that the United States did not learn in the aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001. There are things that nations can do in response that are not done out of xenophobic rage and a visceral demand for revenge. There are things that nations can do in response that do not involve scapegoating the powerless and detaining the innocent. There is no real point in focusing a response on the people whose religion makes us nervous. States should retaliate against states.

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It is long past time for the oligarchies of the Gulf states to stop paying protection to the men in the suicide belts. Their societies are stunted and parasitic. The main job of the elites there is to find enough foreign workers to ensla…er…indenture to do all the real work. The example of Qatar andthe interesting business plan through which that country is building the facilities for the 2022 World Cup is instructive here. Roughly the same labor-management relationship exists for the people who clean the hotel rooms and who serve the drinks. In Qatar, for people who come from elsewhere to work, passports have been known to disappear into thin air. These are the societies that profit from terrible and tangled web of causation and violence that played out on the streets of Paris. These are the people who buy their safety with the blood of innocents far away.
It's not like this is any kind of secret. In 2010, thanks to WikiLeaks, we learned that the State Department, under the direction of then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, knew full well where the money for foreign terrorism came from. It came from countries and not from a faith. It came from sovereign states and not from an organized religion. It came from politicians and dictators, not from clerics, at least not directly. It was paid to maintain a political and social order, not to promulgate a religious revival or to launch a religious war. Religion was the fuel, the ammonium nitrate and the diesel fuel. Authoritarian oligarchy built the bomb. As long as people are dying in Paris, nobody important is dying in Doha or Riyadh.
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It's time for this to stop. It's time to be pitiless against the bankers and against the people who invest in murder to assure their own survival in power. Assets from these states should be frozen, all over the west. Money trails should be followed, wherever they lead. People should go to jail, in every country in the world. It should be done state-to-state. Stop funding the murder of our citizens and you can have your money back. Maybe. If we're satisfied that you'll stop doing it. And, it goes without saying, but we'll say it anyway – not another bullet will be sold to you, let alone advanced warplanes, until this act gets cleaned up to our satisfaction. If that endangers your political position back home, that's your problem, not ours. You are no longer trusted allies. Complain, and your diplomats will be going home. Complain more loudly, and your diplomats will be investigated and, if necessary, detained. Retaliate, and you do not want to know what will happen, but it will done with cold, reasoned and, yes, pitiless calculation. It will not be a blind punch. You will not see it coming. It will not be an attack on your faith. It will be an attack on how you conduct your business as sovereign states in a world full of sovereign states.

And the still, stately progress of the news from Paris continues. There are arrests today in Brussels, of alleged co-conspirators. The body count has stabilized. New information comes at its own pace, as if out of respect for the dead. In the stillness of the news itself, there is refuge and reason and a kind of wounded, ragged peace, as whatever rolled up from the depths of the sickness of the human heart rolls back again, like the tide and, like the tide, one day will return.

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There Is Only One Way to Defeat ISIS

@SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @Taygibay @scorpionx @WAJsal
 
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How about holding US and French Air force responsible for not destroying oil fields held by ISIS. 2 years ago when they started air compaign they said the aim of this is to destroy those oil fields, two years later you get the same answer yet ISIS is now earning more from oil. Its believed that they are earning 3 million a day from oil exports. Who buys it?? how the payments are made?? how come tankers are able to load oil and transport it?? what is French, UK and US air force doing when oil is loaded in the tankers. how come those tanker companies not black listed, how come banks who handle ISIS oil earning not black listed. Most important question, how they get weapons? who they buy it from??

this bullshit you copied and pasted will sell in the European countries only.
 
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How about holding US and French Air force responsible for not destroying oil fields held by ISIS. 2 years ago when they started air compaign they said the aim of this is to destroy those oil fields, two years later you get the same answer yet ISIS is now earning more from oil. Its believed that they are earning 3 million a day from oil exports. Who buys it?? how the payments are made?? how come tankers are able to load oil and transport it?? what is French, UK and US air force doing when oil is loaded in the tankers. how come those tanker companies not black listed, how come banks who handle ISIS oil earning not black listed. Most important question, how they get weapons? who they buy it from??

this bullshit you copied and pasted will sell in the European countries only.
Sir,
The point here is when we close our eyes towards a wrong, it comes back to haunt us. ISIS isn't an overnight phenomenon and there is no denying the fact that governments had information on its growth and risks associated by turning a blind eye. How many times have we seen that even in contemporary history (Taliban for example).
These guys are going to find out support and resources for furthering their ideologies. It is immaterial who provides support, unless there is a consensus and understanding that creating Frankenstein is in nobody's interest in long term, history will keep repeating itself in this sorry manner.
 
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Sir,
The point here is when we close our eyes towards a wrong, it comes back to haunt us. ISIS isn't an overnight phenomenon and there is no denying the fact that governments had information on its growth and risks associated by turning a blind eye. How many times have we seen that even in contemporary history (Taliban for example).
These guys are going to find out support and resources for furthering their ideologies. It is immaterial who provides support, unless there is a consensus and understanding that creating Frankenstein is in nobody's interest in long term, history will keep repeating itself in this sorry manner.

Like I said in another thread the real culprits are security agencies, CIA MI6, MOSAD, RAW and ISI...lets ban having countries from having any secret agencies...their job by definition is sabotage.
 
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Like I said in another thread the real culprits are security agencies, CIA MI6, MOSAD, RAW and ISI...lets ban having countries from having any secret agencies...their job by definition is sabotage.
Well governments in essence.
Use of proxy war and elements like these might serve policy purpose in immediate context but we know what these guys can do once they are over with their agenda. Unless there is a policy to route out these elements immediately, its difficult to see how a stable peace scenario will ever emerge in this defragmenting world.
 
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Answer lies in the decimation of the taliban, lashkar e toiba, it's supporters and it's financiers.
 
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@anant_s Thank you. This article says it as it is. Don't expect anybody to take heed of this though. Do you recall Charlie Hebdo? Week after Pres. Hollandaise was in Saudi shedding tears for the demise of the king.

Instead they will send in the bombers. Plenty of news footage of bombs going off to assuage the public then it will be back to normal.
 
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Answer lies in the decimation of the taliban, lashkar e toiba, it's supporters and it's financiers.

Can you guys for a change pronounce LeT properly! It is Lashkar e Taiba and not "Toiba!!!" Harping day n night on this issue allover the world but can get their name right!!!
 
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Can you guys for a change pronounce LeT properly! It is Lashkar e Taiba and not "Toiba!!!" Harping day n night on this issue allover the world but can get their name right!!!

Some call it lashkar e tayaba...how does it matter?.
 
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Sir,
The point here is when we close our eyes towards a wrong, it comes back to haunt us. ISIS isn't an overnight phenomenon and there is no denying the fact that governments had information on its growth and risks associated by turning a blind eye. How many times have we seen that even in contemporary history (Taliban for example).
These guys are going to find out support and resources for furthering their ideologies. It is immaterial who provides support, unless there is a consensus and understanding that creating Frankenstein is in nobody's interest in long term, history will keep repeating itself in this sorry manner.
[video]
 
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Instead they will send in the bombers. Plenty of news footage of bombs going off to assuage the public then it will be back to normal.
absolutely sir. infact today morning i saw news of Rafales raining bombs on ISIS hideouts.
Obama has criticized in G20 submit and so has several other world leaders.
however on the issue of tackling funding and other material and political support little is done.
there is a sense of Ad-hocism about approach towards tackling the whole issue IMHO.
 
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And here we are ...

There are two things to do to technically stop terrorists :
- Cut their funding;
- Stop their sponsors.

There is one condition for it to then resorb :
- Relative hope-inducing comfort : AKA peace, decent living conditions, proper governance and education.

I'm doubtful on the last 2 to be quite frank.

As for drying out the cash flow, that is what France is doing already with the Barkhan Operation along with
securing lower Libya for a possible international action.
From Mauritania ( part of the ops ) to Sudan with Burkinabes, Tchadians, Malians and Niger armed forces.
Securing the Sub-Sahel routes is meant to stop their trafficking and so on.
( Have you noticed how hostage taking went down in that region compared to before Mali? )

Doing the same for Daesh is more complicated. The Fr / US / rest of the gang planes cannot really bomb
the oil wells or not all. These are the property of the still standing Syrian nation and Iraq. Destroying them
would deprive survivors from economic means of recovery if their local hell eventually freezes over.
Now, if it was possible to convince Erdogan to stop using the Syrian civil war as a front to pile on the Kurds
and concentrate troops on securing his Oh So incredibly porous border so Deash oil trucks cannot pass ...
it would be great but his renewed ( elections 2.0 stunt ) control of government without help makes that ...
huh ... say unlikely right now.

Due to the Yemen operations, GCC involvement is going to be very limited.


Let us then review tactical ground ops as a step up.
The only way to go is through Iraq.
Support for the Iraqi forces along the Ramadi-Haditha-Qa'im axis should take place ( the Brits and Aussies
SFs are already there ) even if that means collaborating with the Iran formed but highly active and efficient
Shi'ite militias.
Similar involvement with a strong logistics chain should then be ported to Iraqi Kurds by French SFs with our
US brothers coming along for the expedition especially since little can be done from inside Syria at the moment.
Conquer, pacify and rebuild ( Lyautey's definition of colonization ) in one sweeping move to stabilize the gains.

All of which does nothing to solve the Syrian quagmire. And honestly, that supposed victory of having planned
elections that was given after the Paris events is pixie dust. If they are held, one can predict that they'll be the
most violent democratic process in History. Flock, I mean can you picture govt officials going door to door in
Aleppo or Raqqa handing out voting registration cards?

So realistically,
Massive airstrikes, yes ( a big night or 2 with all 14 Chammal ( our anti Daesh op ) bombers boosted by the
CDG aircrafts and likely our American buddies to be expected )!
Limited SFs support to the Kurds in the area east of Erbil-Mosul with heightened equipment donations, yes!

More than that? Not sure!

Good day to you @anant_s and to all, Tay.
 
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We must hold accountable our Middle Eastern "allies"—the states and bankers and political elites—who persist in funding mass murder.
Finally some sane person...I didnt read the article but take this on face value! :tup:
 
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There are two things to do to technically stop terrorists :
- Cut their funding;
- Stop their sponsors.

There is one condition for it to then resorb :
- Relative hope-inducing comfort : AKA peace, decent living conditions, proper governance and education.
improving living conditions obviously is cheaper than military spendings and therefore its hard to understand why democratic governments donot invest in peace initiative.
i dread the day when oil wells run dry in middle east and this breed of fanatics have nothing to do in syria or north africa.
unless these youth are given respectable ways to earn bread, they'll keep picking guns.
the strategy to deal with this ideology should change. few bombing campaigns will only amount to theatrics aimed at audience back home.
 
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