The US Needs to Build More Subways

[Hamartia Antidote]

my, my how time flies!!

Don't worry when I asked the Chinese members here what great invention has China brought to the world to use in the last 100 years all they could think of was the e-cigarette.

Even wars have brought things like microwave ovens, computers, jet engines, etc.

 

[beijingwalker]

Don't worry when I asked the Chinese members here what great invention has China brought to the world to use in the last 100 years all they could think of was the e-cigarette.

Because US altogeher has just a couple of hundred years, the last 100 years were the darkest time in the Chinese history and we call it 100 years national humiliation, but if we stretch back to 5000 years, we only see your ancestors still living in the trees.

You are quoting Jimmy Carter? the most worthless president in recent history? oh wait, Biden is here too.... see? we can be critical of our presidents and no one will destroy our "social credit" or send us to a Gulag for "impure and wrong thoughts"! LOL
Ah, yes it has been 40 years since Vietnam handed your *** to you on a silver platter hasn't it?
my, my how time flies!!

So what are you quoting? China hasn't fired a single shot to any countries for decades and US has been waging wars around the world, killing millions, isn't it a hard fact? Do you know US honorable polled as the biggest threat to world peace? google and find it out, and you still have the shame to accuse China in this regard.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

It's probably because that small town doesn't spend much of its budget dealing with a high poverty rate and all the woes that come with it that many US big cities have to contend with. Plus I'm sure they don't have the cost of maintaining infrastructure like an expensive subway system where the ticket fees don't cover the expense anymore.

This should be an eye opener for you. That rural bus was every 5 minutes however this is the schedule for one of the highest ridership bus routes in Boston which goes though some of the poorest inner city sections...and lately for FREE.

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/route_pdfs/2022-winter/028-01.22.3.pdf

None of the depart times beats your 5 minute frequency..and probably whatever your cost was to board it certainly is paying more than this free Boston route.

That bus schedule looks pretty good to me. It's 15 min or less between subsequent buses and less than $2 to ride.

If I had this level of service where I lived right now I wouldn't drive for my commute.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

the last 100 years were the darkest time in the Chinese history and we call it 100 years national humiliation,

No, ~1829 to ~1949 is the 100 years of humiliation.

I guess 1949 to 2022 is just another 70+ years of humiliation

Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That bus schedule looks pretty good to me. It's 15 min or less between subsequent buses and less than $2 to ride.

If I had this level of service where I lived right now I wouldn't drive for my commute.

But it isn't as frequent or as clean as that small town one...

 

[925boy]

Not us, no. But if you guys would stop bullying smaller Nations around you we would not need to have a large military to support them. This nonsense of " All of South China Sea is belong to us" has got to stop. How many enemies do you want to make? How many friends does China have? This Xi fella and CCP is going to put your Nation in a bad spot if you guys don't wake up... btw, if we want more subways, we will build them. Right now it's not a huge issue for us

US is the biggest bully nation, dont even argue it.

There's only 7 subway systems in Russia...we have 14...can you please build more since I guess the rest of your population is stranded in their homes

what level of technology are the 14 in the US? I live in one of the main ones, and we are using 1970 trains and stuff and none of them are fast, they are underserviced, undermaintained, underused...stop boasting about crap pls.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

what level of technology are the 14 in the US? I live in one of the main ones, and we are using 1970 trains and stuff and none of them are fast, they are underserviced, undermaintained, underused...stop boasting about crap pls.

If you bothered to read the rest of my posts in this thread about the Boston MBTA subway you'd know that with budget shortfalls and ridership so low it is unsustainable (and this was true before covid).

T Fares Could Rise In 2019 To Help With Budget Gap

The MBTA's projected budget gap is expected to grow to $111 million in fiscal 2019 and it's unclear whether fares will be part of the fix.

www.wbur.org

You don't have to alert me that it is underserviced, undermaintained, and underused. That's what this thread is all about. Talk of expanding to make it better is useless.



Why do they even need to make announcements like this..it should be standard practice.

The MBTA Is Going to Get Cleaner and Brighter

Expect some action at the grimiest stations starting April 1.

www.bostonmagazine.com

Gee thanks for finally noticing!! You could have started cleaning them 30 years ago instead. Oh and starting on April 1st (April Fools Day) sums it up.

 

[cloud4000]

There are several reasons why few new subway lines will be built in the US.

• Public transportation requires massive government subsidies to survive. There's resistance to pay for it, especially by people who don't even use public transportation. This is also why high-speed railway is unavailable in the US.
• Cites are depopulating to the suburbs and beyond, bringing in less demand for public transportation.
• Finally, technology will upend public transportation with the advent of self-driving cars. With it will come the idea of micro-ownership of vehicles: You pay for what you use.

But if a country is serious about public transportation, it must make the ownership of a car prohibitive. Singapore does this, I believe. But I doubt this will happen in the US, where owning -- and driving -- is considered a human right.

 

[Stranagor]

There are several reasons why few new subway lines will be built in the US.

• Public transportation requires massive government subsidies to survive. There's resistance to pay for it, especially by people who don't even use public transportation. This is also why high-speed railway is unavailable in the US.
• Cites are depopulating to the suburbs and beyond, bringing in less demand for public transportation.
• Finally, technology will upend public transportation with the advent of self-driving cars. With it will come the idea of micro-ownership of vehicles: You pay for what you use.

But if a country is serious about public transportation, it must make the ownership of a car prohibitive. Singapore does this, I believe. But I doubt this will happen in the US, where owning -- and driving -- is considered a human right.

So the existing ones will be allowed to rot and potential users will be discouraged due to safety and security concerns, and eventually those lines will be entirely decomissioned?

Building new ones may be a challenge or call of times, but how about existing ones?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

There are several reasons why few new subway lines will be built in the US.

• Public transportation requires massive government subsidies to survive. There's resistance to pay for it, especially by people who don't even use public transportation. This is also why

you know what really requires massive government subsidies to survive? roads. because nobody pays for roads except through taxes.

In China every high speed road is a toll road. If you don't drive you don't pay, if you drive you pay. Every parking space is toll parking space, there is no free parking, even in your own home (you need to pay up to 40k USD for a home parking space). If you have a car you pay, if you don't have a car you don't pay.

it's all a matter of perspective. in the grand scheme of things all transportation is subsidized, whether that be through tax funded roads, or tax funded transit. it is merely a matter of which one you prefer to subsidize. they all have pros and cons.

pros of public roads + private cars: you get to build freeways through certain neighborhoods to make them into low value shitholes and keep poors in their place
cons of public roads + private cars: pollution, climate change, noise, traffic jams, high accident rates, etc.

pros of public transit + privatized toll roads: you get to move people efficiently, safely and at low cost
cons of public transit + privatized toll roads: you can't keep poors away from your ruling class with plausible deniability.

 

[Communism]

You seem to be forgetting that all those roads are also used to transport goods.

In fact the main reason that roads even need to be repaired/rebuilt relatively often instead of lasting a thousand years like roman ones is due to heavy weight goods transportation platforms (like semi trucks).

As I said in previous threads, the reason why Cities are not really a thing anymore in the United States is because cities have a very specific set of benefits and downsides.

The benefit is concentration of population, which is important for high population density countries (which the U.S. is not), and industries that benefit greatly from population concentration (namely globally low wage manufacturing, which the U.S. literally cannot have)

The downsides are countless and applicable in most instances.

And unlike for the case of trains, subways do basically nothing other than personnel transportation.

Every one of these threads seem to have a warped understanding of what the U.S. actually is due to Hollywood stereotypes that pretend that most Americans live in either Urban California or Urban Northeast U.S.

 

[beijingwalker]

Basically Americans here argue that no subways, high speed railways or other public transport are needed in either cities or suburbs, because we just like driving.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The benefit is concentration of population, which is important for high population density countries (which the U.S. is not), and industries that benefit greatly from population concentration (namely globally low wage manufacturing

there's very little manufacturing in top tier global cities, at least in the core CBD. they're services and high tech centers first and foremost. most manufacturing is done at the outskirts or in tightly regulated port and industrial zones.

the other key advantage of cities is that you need to build less infrastructure per capita. 1 km of sewer mainline + 1 km of household pipe can serve up 20 luxury condos in a 5x4 midrise block (let alone small apartments) but only 5 suburban houses with yard. Each luxury condo have about ~80% appraisal value (and property tax) as the SFH but you get 4x more in the same land space.

BTW, Russia also has highly centralized cities.

Basically Americans here argue that no subways, high speed railways or other public transport are needed in either cities or suburbs, because we just like driving.

it doesn't matter to me except 1. their emissions from cars are destroying the climate and 2. I live here.

otherwise their inefficiency only drags themselves down.

 

[Communism]

"Less" infrastructure, certainly.

Less cost infrastructure, hell no.

Cities are hideously expensive in pretty much every single way.

Russia is organized in cities because Russia is a barren moonscape with trees for the most part.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

"Less" infrastructure, certainly.

Less cost infrastructure, hell no.

Cities are hideously expensive in pretty much every single way.

less relative to property taxes. there is empirical evidence of this from real estate investors, civil engineers, government studies, etc.

The Simple Math That Can Save Cities From Bankruptcy

Forget raising taxes or cutting services. If cities understood the economics of land use better, they might not need to do either.

www.bloomberg.com

http://www.impactfees.com/publications%20pdf/fiscalcostofsprawl12_03.pdf

Low Density Development Undermines Infrastructure Funding — Even When Property Values are Very High

For many years lower density neighborhoods have been associated with higher quality of life — this was American Dream of the Baby Boomer…

medium.com

 

[Communism]

"Less relative to property taxes"

Is simply a nice way to try to handwave away the ponzi scheme that is the residential market in cities.

The U.S. has a relatively benign housing market compared to the trainwrecks in countries that have adopted the model you like to tout as a "good idea".

"Houses are for living in, not speculation"