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The state that wouldn't fail

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Pakistani Jugaad at its best... though one day, Inshallah, I hope to see a nation that not only uses their 'Jugaad' to 'keep afloat' but to become a successful and advanced nation!*


*Without involving ourselves in US affairs, nothing good ever comes of that.
 
State that doesn't fail? I think Pakistan has failed economically.
 
^

There are many countries much worse off than us...

and 'failed' isn't an appropriate word unless the situation is beyond repair.
 
Why are they not assasinating these morons like sufi and fuzla ??
 
EDITORIAL: Failed policies

October 01, 2010

In a 65-minute video interview, Waliur Rehman, the commander of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) in South Waziristan has stated that the TTP is aligned with al Qaeda, calling it a “global organisation”. He goes on to explain that the TTP agrees with and condones the ideology of al Qaeda, and promised to expand the war in the next decade to spread sharia throughout the entire world. Chilling words indeed. However, what is more chilling is the fact that our dual policies are now coming back to haunt us.

Till now, the establishment in Pakistan had managed to get away with its covert support for the ‘good’ Taliban — the Afghan part — whilst waging a war with the ‘bad’ Taliban — the TTP. Waliur Rehman’s comments prove that now there is no distinction between any of the militants as they have banded together for larger, grander goals. The TTP’s only hope of breaking out of its regional theatre is to align itself with al Qaeda. With this kind of unity among the militants, it is imperative that the military’s pet project of strategic depth in Afghanistan — after NATO troop withdrawal — be brought to a halt.

Rehman’s words resonate a little too loudly now. They come in the wake of a ‘foiled’ terror plot to attack cities in Europe and a stepping up of NATO drone strikes — as well as ‘hot pursuit’ NATO helicopter strikes in North Waziristan. It is becoming quite clear that unless we do something about the militants and their safe havens inside Pakistan, particularly in North Waziristan, foreign troops may be tempted to take up the task themselves.

No matter which faction of the Taliban or al Qaeda the militants belong to, they are all part of one big, integrated network. The whole point of the war on terror is to eliminate the threat and there is no arguing the fact now that the threat is a united one. The military and the intelligence services must take stock of the situation before Pakistan too descends into another war zone in a wider conflict.
 
I actually rather than "State will fail or not" one should contribute to state whether in failed position or developed position. because contribution should come irrespective of anything.

Sorry if posted something wrong
 
I actually rather than "State will fail or not" one should contribute to state whether in failed position or developed position. because contribution should come irrespective of anything.

Sorry if posted something wrong

Agreed.

Whether it has failed or not, it is your country (I mean everyone, not just us Pakistanis), and it is your responsibility!

Good day
 
Friends, this thread was started by our forum member Rabzon, and he has titled it for a particular reason, with a particular vision in mind - lets please focus on the substance of the thread -- lets not lose our focus on the center for the periphery
 
EDITORIAL: Contradictions in Pak-US ties

Dailytimes
October 04, 2010

NATO’s latest strike in Pakistan’s territory, this time claiming the lives of three Frontier Corp troops, has sparked a round of protests from various sections of society. As a result, Pakistan has stopped NATO supplies via the Torkham border, while the prime minister said on the floor of the National Assembly that Pakistan has “other options” if NATO strikes into Pakistan’s tribal areas did not halt. However, these protests are long on rhetoric and short on reality. After initially defending the strikes as hot pursuit in self-defence, the US has made high-level contacts to defuse the tension created by this event. The International Security Assistance Force’s Commander General Petraeus has expressed regret for the loss of Pakistani soldiers. NATO’s stand is that this was friendly fire, where Pakistani troops were mistaken for hostile elements. While the US is engaged in damage control, it would be good for Pakistan to reassess its policy in view of the changing US attitude.

This incident reveals the logic of the contradictions in the relationship between Pakistan and the US in the war on terror like never before. Surprisingly, it has taken so long for this to become so obvious. So far, the US and NATO were exercising restraint and quietly nudging Pakistan’s military establishment closer to their position. Perhaps the point has been reached where they feel that this approach has run its course, as Pakistan is continuing with its dual policy towards the Taliban. The Afghan Taliban are freely using Pakistan’s soil to launch attacks on NATO forces in Afghanistan even as the Pakistan army is engaged in operations against the Pakistani Taliban. The US is now trying to paper over the revelation of deep fissures, because at this moment, the two countries are in a tight embrace and need each other’s help. Although Holbrooke has said NATO would not be affected by the break in supplies from Pakistan, it would be very difficult for the US to find alternative routes, which are expensive and non-viable. On the other hand, Pakistan is so dependent on US goodwill and aid to its military and government that it cannot afford to alienate it. Indications are that Pakistan would soon restore NATO supplies. It should, however, revisit its three-decades old policy of using jihadi proxies for intervention in Afghanistan, which is now proving counter-productive. That is the only option available to Pakistan. Our dependence on US goodwill does not allow us adventurism. If Pakistan’s insists on its dual policy towards the Taliban, it cannot expect the US not to violate its territory to take out hostile elements on Pakistan’s soil.
 
i disagree i think in a country like pakistan religion should be kept completely out of politics obviously our culture and religion do intertwine so there will be some influence but largely keep it out no country has an Islamic system and i dont think we are capable of properly implementing it even you are bickering over whos sharia is right

then why call ourself an islamic country then ?

furthermore isn't the lack of knowledge and studying islam how it should be intended is the root causes of our division, NOT capable of properly implementing it and extremists ?



We must thanks ALLAH that munafiq talibans commited some utter stupid mistakes in haze that wide-opened the eyes of whole nation.

Tough Times Don't Last.......But Tought People Do :coffee:

:pakistan: Pakistan Paaindabaaad!! :pakistan:

ditto that !
 
What the NATO attack exposes

Mosharraf Zaidi
October 05, 2010

During the process that lead to President Barack Obama's announcement of a surge in Afghanistan last year, Pakistan's role in the situation in Afghanistan became of a greater importance than any other single factor. From the perspective of both the US military and its civilian leadership, the "safe haven" that Al-Qaeda enjoys in FATA represents a danger to American lives. Bob Woodward's new book about the process that led to the surge is called "Obama's Wars". In it, the reader can almost hear US officials speak about Pakistan, in graphic detail. It is an exciting read, and something to experience for every Pakistani interested in the country's future and its relationship to the rest of the world.

The NATO attack on an FC post at 5:25 am on September 30 that killed three Pakistani paramilitary soldiers needs to be seen in the context of the Afghanistan surge and US government's approach to its war in Afghanistan. Since Obama hit the reset button in his speech at West Point on December 1, 2009, the war in Afghanistan is layered upon a foundation of US national security "truths" about which there is virtual consensus in Washington DC.

This first of these is that the "new" war is between Al-Qaeda and the United States -- the Kandahari Taliban are a sideshow. The second is that Pakistan's tribal areas (FATA) are now the primary theatre of war between Al-Qaeda and the US. The clandestine operations of the American intelligence community, lead by the CIA, and the US military's so-called "black ops", or covert actions, conducted by the Joint Special Operations Command are the central instruments of America's war on Al-Qaeda -- wherever that war may take America. Right now, it takes them to FATA, over, and over, and over again. For US policy makers, this is a no-brainer. If Al-Qaeda is in FATA, then so is the United States, right behind them, chasing them, hounding them, and killing them.

Pakistani hypernationalists will often spew weak, unsubstantiated and ridiculous things to rail at the imperialism of the US war effort. But what most Pakistanis, hypernationalist or not, have little to say about, is how this problem can be solved without proactive American action. To put it more kindly, and as it is likely framed in for-the-record discussions between Gen Kayani and Gen Patraeus -- how can threats from Al-Qaeda and its allies in FATA, be eliminated, without America help?

To hear some folks tell it, Pakistan is virtually doing everything it possibly can, given the limitations imposed on this country by its financial situation, by the poor credibility of a an elite seen to be corrupt and disloyal to the concerns of the average Pakistani, and by the politics of waging war on one's own territory and people.

Exhibit A for these folks is the commitment demonstrated by the Pakistani military's repeated operations in FATA. Indeed, these operations may be vital to Pakistani national security. The simplistic notion that war operations in FATA undertaken by the Pakistani military are being conducted to please America ignore the fundamental reality posed by Al-Qaeda, and indeed by the motley crew of alphabet soup groups like the LeT, SSP, JeM and others. We don't have to cheerlead America's war to understand the implications of the war that terrorists are trying to take to the rest of the world. Simply put, any international action by these groups, whether in India, or the United States or elsewhere, will produce retaliation -- a prospect that puts the national security of Pakistan in grave, grave danger. Military operations in FATA however do not inspire confidence, because they are not anchored in a coherent strategy or plan of any kind.

Pakistan has to deal with threats to its internal security, such as those posed by the TTP and their ilk. It also has to deal with threats to its national security from outside -- including the threat of retaliation if a terrorist group based in Pakistan successfully attacked another country, or indeed even the threat of conspiracies hatched by other countries.
Right now, Pakistan has no strategy that adequately addresses these twin threats
-- both of which find fertile soil in FATA. The internal governance mechanisms to deal with security, like anti-terror legislation, police reform, decentralization, or intelligence triangulation have barely moved an inch while all hell has broken loose since mid 2007. Not surprising, given the lack of a counterterrorism strategy. The external governance mechanisms have a long record of failure in resolving security issues -- from the compromised neutrality of the UN system, to the impotence of SAARC, and indeed, credibility-starved OIC. Even if they worked, Pakistan's schizophrenic foreign policy regime would probably have dried the pool of any sympathy out there for Pakistan.

High and dry, with an uncontrollably angry enemy within, and lots of enemies outside, Pakistanis must be careful before remonstrating too strongly against NATO's aggression in FATA. Pakistan is conducting military operations and aerial bombardment itself. Pakistan gave the US fly-by rights, and access to airfields long ago. Simply put, the American war in ****** does not exist without strong, concerted, deliberate and assiduous Pakistani efforts. Indeed, Pakistani government officials last year were among the most ardent supporters of Obama's Afghan surge. Simply put, Pakistan has repeatedly welcomed and enabled the US war in Afghanistan, and Pakistan knows exactly where the center of gravity for this war lies. The fact that NATO was behind the trigger last week is a technicality. Yet acting against terrorists should not be controversial, it should be unquestionably job number one. Those terrorists are sworn to killing innocent people -- and they have fulfilled that promise over, and over, and over again.

That is why opposition to America's continued presence in Afghanistan, to drone attacks in FATA, and to what is going to become much more frequent US visits to FATA across the Durand Line needs to do better than burn flags and fabricate conspiracy theories. Any opposition that is motivated by emotions should be solemnly rejected.

Genuine opposition must be based on rule of law, both domestic and international, on the rights of Pakistani citizens, both Pakhtuns and all others, and on the need for clarity, accountability, and transparency in public policy -- here in Pakistan and elsewhere. To mount serious opposition, notwithstanding mistakes and violations by other parties, Pakistanis and their friends need to be able to articulate compelling answers to two critical questions that Pakistanis should have been asking their military and political elite all along. First, what is the plan to protect Pakistani lives and property from attacks by terrorists on Pakistani soil? Second, what is the plan to restrict the operations of known terrorist groups who plan to attack other countries? Sadly, thus far, there is no Pakistani plan.

It should be exceedingly clear that countries that have no plans of their own, are going to have plans made for them. Blocking NATO supply routes is not a counterterrorism strategy, and it cannot be how national security should work in a country of 180 million people. It is cheap theatrics. The problems in FATA weaken internal Pakistani security and are a Pakistani national security problem. The life and death struggles of Pakistan's brave soldiers -- including the three FC soldiers killed by NATO -- and its resilient people deserves much better than these cheap reactive theatrics.

The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy.
 
COMMENT: Smokescreen of sovereignty

Dr Mohammad Taqi
October 07, 2010

“Son, do you not know who I am?” said in Urdu the man with a henna-dyed beard and the Holy Quran on his lap. Reading the perplexed expression on the young man’s face, he then answered his own question, “I am Jalaluddin Haqqani — Commander Haqqani.”

It was 1994 and this young sub-inspector of the Punjab Police had stopped a convoy of double-cabin vehicles on Peshawar Road, just outside Rawalpindi. With tens of armed jihadists seated in the trucks, the officer who led a small posse faced the dilemma of whether to insist on the checking that he had originally planned or not. After a short standoff, his problem was solved by a wireless message from ‘higher authorities’ to clear the cavalcade without inspection! The officer later confided that he still did not know who Haqqani was.

Mr Haqqani has since retired from active jihad on account of health reasons and his son Sirajuddin Haqqani has been carrying the mantle from their state-provided sanctuary in North Waziristan. It was multiple conversations of an ISI colonel with Sirajuddin that were tapped by the US in 2008 and led to a surge in the drone attacks ordered by George Bush.

In South Waziristan, the Uzbek terrorist ‘Sheikh’ Tohir Yuldeshev — abbreviated STY in Pakistani intelligence circles — operated with impunity for years before being taken out in a drone attack last year. Scores of Uzbek terrorists led by their Sheikh had remained functioning across FATA and as far as Buner last year.

Hardly forgotten is the 55th Arab Brigade comprising Arab-Afghans and operating from its bases straddling the Durand Line, which fought alongside the Taliban years after the last Soviet had left Afghanistan and six years before any Americans had appeared there. The Afghan-Arab ringleaders like Ayman al-Zawahiri still remain in FATA.

Just last month, the Afghan Taliban — entrenched with their Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) cohorts in the Kurram Agency for three years — were attacking the Shalozan Tangi tribes in the upper Kurram, northwest of Parachinar, at the foothills of Koh-e-Sufaid. The Khaiwas village fell to them days before Eid-ul-Fitr. When the Tangi tribesmen mounted a counter-offensive to retake Khaiwas after Eid, they were bombed by the Kurram militia and army helicopters. Eighty-six Tangi tribesmen died — eight were killed by army gunships.

The Pakistani establishment never bothered for a moment about ‘sovereignty’ when they were pawning away large swaths of FATA to these terror networks, which have harboured and unleashed terrorists that have killed thousands of innocent Pakistanis throughout the country.

I had noted last week that the world’s patience with Pakistan is running thin and the establishment’s gimmicks will come under increasing scrutiny, followed potentially by retribution. The ISAF action in the Kurram Agency then was not a surprise. Pakistan has abandoned its responsibility as a neutral state to prevent its territory from being used against other countries.

In Kurram’s case, the Taliban have been slaughtering Pakistani citizens for almost three years now but the state did not budge. It was the same group of Taliban that had engaged the ISAF forces last weekend. Given the strategic geography, ISAF could no longer ignore Pakistani inaction. NATO has apologised for the deaths of three Pakistani soldiers, and rightly so. It gains nothing tactically by killing foot soldiers. As General Musharraf’s confessions to Der Spiegel reiterate, it is the top brass that continues to nurture the terrorists and has failed to understand that using the jihadist proxies is no longer acceptable to the world at large.

It is only a matter of time before a large-scale terror attack on western and US targets succeeds. One lapse on the part of the counter-terrorism forces and we will have a repeat of 9/11, complete with its aftermath. And all indications are that such an attack would originate from the ‘sovereign’ Pakistani territory. As details about the German nationals killed in the drone attack in North Waziristan earlier this week emerge, the Pakistani state’s credibility as an entity willing or able to tackle the problem within its borders has hit rock bottom.

So what did — what my friend Kamran Shafi calls — the ‘deep state’ do? First, it has ratcheted up the brinkmanship by stopping the NATO supply line and then allowing orchestrated attacks on the idling trucks. This is reminiscent of the November 1979 burning down of the US embassy, while General Ziaul Haq went on with his gingerly bicycle ride in Rawalpindi. The mobs torched the embassy and killed diplomats in the heart of Islamabad, while the security agencies stood by. The idea was to teach the Yanks a lesson so they would do business with the general on his terms.

NATO’s immediate plans will not be affected by several days of supply stoppage and if the same were to continue, it would be forced to take up the expensive but available alternative routes. Any sane government, whose cash reserves are dangerously low and fuel reserves even lower, would not have embarked upon an adventure like this to become an international pariah.

But then again, thinking things through has not been the forte of those used to pushing Pakistan into geopolitical dead ends. And, as always, after painting itself into a corner, the establishment has now turned to the civilians to save its skin. Civilian leaders of all political hues are being coerced to join in the sovereignty chorus. Remember Mian Nawaz Sharif’s frantic dash to see Bill Clinton on July 4, 1999? Roping in the PPP or the ANP leaders like Asfandyar Khan to sing hymns of sovereignty is no different.

When Nadir Shah invaded India, he embarked upon an elephant ride. Seated on the elephant he told the mahout: “Anaanash ba dastam bideh” (hand over the reins to me). The mahout responded that it was he who drove the elephant. Nadir Shah declined the ride, one that he did not control himself.

Despite debacles at home, the international credibility of the Pakistani civilian leadership is still better than that of their khaki counterparts. There is no declared status of forces agreement between the US and Pakistan about the operations inside Pakistan. The civilian leaders would be ill advised to take ownership of an undocumented enterprise, over which they never had any control. They must refuse to be used as human shields. The world can see through the smokescreen of sovereignty; Pakistani politicians should too.
 
EDITORIAL: Everything on the line

Dailytimes.
October 08, 2010

A week since the closure of the Torkham border crossing for NATO supplies, the Taliban have been having a field day with the idling trucks stuck in Pakistan. And on Wednesday the militants upped the ante by attacking 22 NATO oil tankers on the outskirts of Quetta. What makes this attack different is that these trucks were on their way to Afghanistan via Chaman, the other border crossing that has remained open. Meantime another convoy was attacked on the GT Road near Nowshera where some 35 tankers were set ablaze. The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has claimed responsibility, bringing the total number of trucks torched to well over 100 in this one week alone.

With well over 50 percent of NATO supplies reaching troops in Afghanistan from Pakistan, the closure of the Torkham crossing has sent a clear signal to Washington that Pakistan will not tolerate more ‘hot pursuit’ attacks on its territory. The US ambassador, Anne Patterson has already issued a formal apology “on behalf of the American people” for the death of the three Pakistani soldiers, and both General Petraeus and Admiral Mullen have expressed regret through a statement and a letter to General Kayani respectively. However, it would be foolish to presume that we have pushed the US into a corner. There are alternate routes NATO can use for its supplies if push comes to shove. The US needs a cooperative ally, one that will work in coordination with NATO forces. It does not need an ally that provides safe havens to the very forces it is battling in Afghanistan. According to a White House assessment report, US officials have stated that the Pakistani military is unwilling to pursue “military engagements” that put it in direct conflict with the Afghan Taliban. This makes sense considering that it is being alleged that the establishment is either turning a blind eye to the continuous attacks on NATO convoys or something even worse. If such accusations are to be believed, some serious questions are raised about the military’s policy in this war. The TTP has boasted responsibility for the attacks and, therefore, it cannot be ignored that they are in direct connivance with the Afghan Taliban as no other outfit benefits more from these attacks than militants fighting US troops in Afghanistan.

We may have extracted an apology from the US but our establishment should not overplay its hand. The war on terror has cost the American people and two successive US governments money, lives, and popularity. A closed crossing is not going to deter the US from its goal to wipe out the militants no matter where they reside. Our obsession with Afghanistan should not cloud the judgement of those calling the shots. The war on terror is not just continuing; it is escalating and widening into Pakistan. Drone attacks have increased, terror threat levels in the west have been heightened because of apprehensions concerning western citizens receiving terrorist training in FATA, and militant attacks in both Pakistan and Afghanistan have been stepped up. In such an atmosphere, if Pakistan does not comply with US demands to target the militants, particularly in North Waziristan, the war on terror could escalate into Pakistan in a dramatic way. It is imperative that the establishment stop putting the future of Pakistan at stake for the dubious goal of strategic depth in Afghanistan.
 
You guys can spread nonsense against Shariah and propaganda against Islam, but the truth is that Shariah is a FUNDAMENTAL aspect of Islam and is the BEST system in the world!

The Taliban (Wahabis) do NOT follow the correct shariah! They follow their nafs!

The Shariah is the holy law of Islam brought by the greatest of all creation, the Prophet Muhammad (S)!

The Shariah of the Prophet Muhammad (S) is the system we need!

Pakistan Zindabad! :pakistan:

No offence but the shariah law is messed up and not capable of fitting in with today's society. Shariah law will take Pakistan back to the stoneage just like during the times of Zia ul Haq and its cuz of him were in this taliban mess. We need democracy and secularism to succeed. Feudalism should be destroyed and a sincere leader maybe like Musharraf should come in. I say Musharraf because under him we were an economic powerhouse. We need to repeal all stoneage laws made by Zia ul Haq and follow the Turkish Model.
 
No offence but the shariah law is messed up and not capable of fitting in with today's society. Shariah law will take Pakistan back to the stoneage just like during the times of Zia ul Haq and its cuz of him were in this taliban mess. We need democracy and secularism to succeed. Feudalism should be destroyed and a sincere leader maybe like Musharraf should come in. .

You do realise that Sharia Law was based upon Islamic Law and Islam was Created by ALLAH.

Are you saying the creator of this entire Universe who created Pakistan you and me, as Imperfect ?

This stupid idea of Sharia law is backward only serve the Racist and Islamophobia. You clearly have no Idea what sharia law is about and you need to study it before you could even think of giving an opinion.
You should also know the difference between what Islam, Hadith, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said and what the extremist use to fulfill their ridicules hate.

Don't forget, it would be pretty much contradiction as a Pakistani who doesn't support any part of Islamic value, as the country is based upon that.

As I said before Allah(swt) controls everything so if you want to leave Islam then ALlah(swt) will leave you and make your life misery . Thats also includes the entire country.

Secularism has no value and doesn't serve people in the long and in the short term. THere is already democracy establish in Islam go and read about it . Furthermore Islam was at its height in science and economy.


Feudalism has nothing to do with ISlam at all , and I don't need you to proof it as this will be a direct contratiction in Islam.

If you want to blame the failings then blame it on lack of education in both Islam and general Education in which Islam is totally against.
 
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