The Reign of Non-History

[anonymus]

Even taking to leftist ideology needs a reason. Why would Hindus who are intrinsically individualistic take on to leftist philosophies? Why is it that RSS preaches against communism, but these educated Northies always talk in terms of class divisions? All leftist philosophies are similar in nature to Abrahamic religions except for the theist part of it.

It is not like those belonging to the ultra right wing were richer than those belong to WB or UP.

North Indians are much more hostile to communism than South Indians.

The reason that so much leftist come from North India is because Ruling Dispensation ie Congress supported Leftist universities in return of which, leftists have reduced Indian freedom struggle to one man show and have indulged in every form of negationism possible.

It is patronage rather than marxist inclination of North India which is the cause of high number of north historians ( most of leftist uni like JNU, Jadavpur, AMU are in North).

 

[Indrani]

North Indians are much more hostile to communism than South Indians.

The reason that so much leftist come from North India is because Ruling Dispensation ie Congress supported Leftist universities in return of which, leftists have reduced Indian freedom struggle to one man show and have indulged in every form of negationism possible.

It is patronage rather than marxist inclination of North India which is the cause of high number of north historians ( most of leftist uni like JNU, Jadavpur, AMU are in North).

See even here, Congress as an organization had huge grass root support in its early years with heavy representation of North Indian Brahmins as its leaders. So what made Congress tilt towards the left?

 

[Joe Shearer]

@farhan_9909

Yes, Sir, you are right. #85 and #87 fairly cover the facts; please ignore #89.

 

[anonymus]

See even here, Congress as an organization had huge grass root support in its early years with heavy representation of North Indian Brahmins as its leaders. So what made Congress tilt towards the left?

At the time of Russian revolution no one knew about evils of communism, every one welcomed it as a liberating ideology. Apart from this the fact that British ruled had disenfranchised Indians; a system which promise equal distribution of outcome seem rather attractive.

In congress, there were both leftist and right wing factions led by JL Nehru and C. Rajgopalachari which were antagonist to eact other. Leftist prevailed in congress in mid thirties due to Gandhi's support to Nehru.


Marxism showed itself to be a genocidal, retrogressive, and poverty producing ideology pretty late.

 

[possumlot]

What we were looking at it is why they are so hostile to their own people and their own history. If they have to be opportunists, would they not be better served by pandering to the majorities than minorities?

It happens for the same reason that anything else happens in this world.

It is more profitable to be anti Hindu than be pro Hindu. For the longest time it was fashionable to be Anti-Chinese than pro-chinese. Money and power changes everything.

You want history to be favourable to you, become Rich and Powerful. Its as simple as that. No point in blaming the opportunists for being true to their self. Historians or politicians or businessmen.

What you call 'majority' is still the minority in the world, and an exploited minority at that.

I think the only community weaker than the Hindu community would be the African tribal. We come way down in the pecking order of things.

 

[farhan_9909]

@farhan_9909

Yes, Sir, you are right. #85 and #87 fairly cover the facts; please ignore #89.

They do.But what i am interested is that do indian also consider those(Panini and Sanskrit) as of Pakistani origin?or by default as of indian origin?I agree Pakistan is a recent phenomena but a Nation history is its people history.We also have no solid proof confirming that a mass migration happened from What is now Pakistan into India.

I have seen many indians claiming that Pakistan has nothing to do with IVC as because Pakistani are Muslim now and follow arab culture,but even today greek doesn't follow the ancient greek religion but the Greek history is associated with them,Persian doesnt follow zorastheism anymore but they are the sole owner of prior to Islamic History of Persia.

What you have to say about this

Panini was from Pushakalavati city of Gandhara, Pushakalvati and Takshashila were named after nephews of Hindu God Lord Rama named Pushkala and Taksha.. He standardized the Classical Sanskrit language in his book Ashtaddhayi(8 chapters), classical Sanskrit originated from Vedic Sanskrit and Rigveda mentions the language belongs to the region of Sapta Sindhu( roughly the land between Ganges-Yamuna and Indus river).

So am i by default right that both Sanskirt and Panini has origin in Pakistan and Pakistan has the right to claim patent of Sanskrit.

Pashtuns settled in Gandhara in later on, first Pashtun tribe crossed the Suleiman mountains to enter Gandhara in 9th century. The original inhabitants of Gandhara were mostly massacred or displaced elsewhere by Ghaznavi or other invaders.

I beg to differ.Qais Abdur Rashid Baba aka the forefather of pashtuns(Considered so as he converted whole of his family to Islam after return from arabia) and he's buried in Dera ismail khan (East of Sulaiman mountain)

Basically region upto Attock in Pakistan is a pashtun territory including Islamaabad(Margalla Hill)

 

[INDIC]

So am i by default right that both Sanskirt and Panini has origin in Pakistan and Pakistan has the right to claim patent of Sanskrit.

Right to claim.

I beg to differ.Qais Abdur Rashid Baba aka the forefather of pashtuns(Considered so as he converted whole of his family to Islam after return from arabia) and he's buried in Dera ismail khan (East of Sulaiman mountain)
Basically region upto Attock in Pakistan is a pashtun territory including Islamaabad(Margalla Hill)

Can you explain, in own words of Pashtuns, the ancestors of Pashtuns were never followed Hindus while it is quite clear Gandhara was a Hindu land where people used Prakrit and Sanskrit. Territory beyond Attock in now Pashtuns now but not in ancient time.

 

[Contrarian]

It happens for the same reason that anything else happens in this world.

It is more profitable to be anti Hindu than be pro Hindu. For the longest time it was fashionable to be Anti-Chinese than pro-chinese. Money and power changes everything.

You want history to be favourable to you, become Rich and Powerful. Its as simple as that. No point in blaming the opportunists for being true to their self. Historians or politicians or businessmen.

What you call 'majority' is still the minority in the world, and an exploited minority at that.

I think the only community weaker than the Hindu community would be the African tribal. We come way down in the pecking order of things.

Fair points.
Though there is something to be said that Jawahars slight leftist tilt set the tone...and his progeny and followers took it to an extreme level successively after he passed away . More loyal than the King types.

I would say Leftists have had their glory days in the 80's. Their value has been consistently eroding since the 90s...However the fact is that the books- in schools and universities - were authorized at that time. Since then no major changes have been done to them..so in academia they continue to have dominance by virtue of patronage at that time.

And since this is taught to almost all Indians since schooling..we as a nation have a leftist bent of mind.

 

[possumlot]

Fair points.
Though there is something to be said that Jawahars slight leftist tilt set the tone...and his progeny and followers took it to an extreme level successively after he passed away . More loyal than the King types.

I would say Leftists have had their glory days in the 80's. Their value has been consistently eroding since the 90s...However the fact is that the books- in schools and universities - were authorized at that time. Since then no major changes have been done to them..so in academia they continue to have dominance by virtue of patronage at that time.

And since this is taught to almost all Indians since schooling..we as a nation have a leftist bent of mind.

Nehru came from a family who admired everything british and had contempt at anything Indian. He could not even stand his Indian wife and preferred Mountbatten's wife. His father was a bigger bigot who had ensured that his household was filled with english goods and english nannies to look after his children.

Nehru over compensated for his lack of Indian roots by sucking up to Gandhi who unlike Nehru came from the dusty bowls of Gujarat (like Patel). Nehru found acceptance with the leftist liberals in capitalist england as they were the only people who would have reached out to him during his stay there. It is no surprise his elitist guilty consciousness turned him socialist. He unfortunately passed on his madness to his daughter who adored him.

If you read records of KGB archives you will realize how much the KGB had penetrated EVERY organ of the Indian state. Manipulating facts and publishing propaganda was a KGB speciality and they ensured that most of India was brainwashed into siding up with them.

Most of us still subconsciously side with Russia and justify our alignment by quoting 1971 or some other act of "friendship". The reality is like all humans we only rationalize our feelings and justify it to ourselves.

I suspect the left leaning in our education system has much to do with KGB interference and less to do with Indira Gandhi who actually disliked muslims.

It was Rajiv Gandhi with his parsi-muslim father and a Christian wife who brought about and encouraged this anti-Hindu environment in India.

Today the poison has spread wide and deep and there are no easy solutions. Only time and effort can cleanse the system.

 

[INDIC]

@anonymus @Indrani The old Congress had both left leaning and right leaning leadership even after independence like J B Kriplani, KM Munshi, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, C Rajagopalachari etc. So, the old Congress was a balanced party in a sense with left and right leaning leaders. But later on many of the right leaning leaders left congress, infact many leaders of first Janata government were former Congress party leaders.

 

[anonymus]

@anonymus @Indrani The old Congress had both left leaning and right leaning leadership even after independence like J B Kriplani, KM Munshi, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, C Rajagopalachari etc. So, the old Congress was a balanced party in a sense with left and right leaning leaders. But later on many of the right leaning leaders left congress, infact many leaders of first Janata government were former Congress party leaders.

Right wingers of Congress formed Swatantra Party, after monopolization of power by Nehru.

 

[Indrani]

Nehru came from a family who admired everything british and had contempt at anything Indian. He could not even stand his Indian wife and preferred Mountbatten's wife. His father was a bigger bigot who had ensured that his household was filled with english goods and english nannies to look after his children.

Nehru over compensated for his lack of Indian roots by sucking up to Gandhi who unlike Nehru came from the dusty bowls of Gujarat (like Patel). Nehru found acceptance with the leftist liberals in capitalist england as they were the only people who would have reached out to him during his stay there. It is no surprise his elitist guilty consciousness turned him socialist. He unfortunately passed on his madness to his daughter who adored him.

If you read records of KGB archives you will realize how much the KGB had penetrated EVERY organ of the Indian state. Manipulating facts and publishing propaganda was a KGB speciality and they ensured that most of India was brainwashed into siding up with them.

Most of us still subconsciously side with Russia and justify our alignment by quoting 1971 or some other act of "friendship". The reality is like all humans we only rationalize our feelings and justify it to ourselves.

I suspect the left leaning in our education system has much to do with KGB interference and less to do with Indira Gandhi who actually disliked muslims.

It was Rajiv Gandhi with his parsi-muslim father and a Christian wife who brought about and encouraged this anti-Hindu environment in India.

Today the poison has spread wide and deep and there are no easy solutions. Only time and effort can cleanse the system.

Nehru considered himself culturally Muslim. It was his fascination for everything Islam that led him to naturally to lean towards socialism. There was no guilty conscious there. Neither was Indira anti-Muslim given that it was during her reign that our constitution became "Secular." Actually, from account I have heard of Rajiv, he was the first guy to be truly sympathetic towards Hindu causes. It was his belief that Indians should re-acquaint themselves with Ramayana and Mahabharata, etc. Played a part in DD airing those serials at that time. Also he was the guy who allowed performance of Shilanyas at Ram Janmabhoomi.

@anonymus @Indrani The old Congress had both left leaning and right leaning leadership even after independence like J B Kriplani, KM Munshi, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, C Rajagopalachari etc. So, the old Congress was a balanced party in a sense with left and right leaning leaders. But later on many of the right leaning leaders left congress, infact many leaders of first Janata government were former Congress party leaders.

Yeah Congress started out as a rather balanced party and then got hijacked by Nehru and his supporters who were left leaning.

 

[scorpionx]

Since i was posting in first person, i used you as a prop for commie bashing. I know that while you are a leftist,but you most probably are not a retarded commie.Calling you commie was a figure of speech ( since you posted opening post ).

I don't know how I got this certificate (leftist). May be it is because I have not agreed with the rightist version of history so far which has certain fatal fundamental weaknesses. The day I read properly researched articles where accurate methodology has been adapted without any religious and political bias, I will turn into a "rightist" in future, may be.

 

[possumlot]

Nehru considered himself culturally Muslim. It was his fascination for everything Islam that led him to naturally to lean towards socialism. There was no guilty conscious there. Neither was Indira anti-Muslim given that it was during her reign that our constitution became "Secular." Actually, from account I have heard of Rajiv, he was the first guy to be truly sympathetic towards Hindu causes. It was his belief that Indians should re-acquaint themselves with Ramayana and Mahabharata, etc. Played a part in DD airing those serials at that time. Also he was the guy who allowed performance of Shilanyas at Ram Janmabhoomi.

United India was 25% muslim so it was only natural that Nehru was interested in Islam. Same was true for Gandhi. I don't think it had anything to do with the religion itself. If that was so then he and Jinnha would have been good friends

IG was the one who supported Israeli consulate in bombay when the entire arab world AND muslims in India insisted we close it down. She was also acutely aware that the Jewish controlled Media was against her. But maybe I was wrong to say she disliked muslims. She did not recognize religion (hindu & muslim) as the fundamental driving force in India, probably because it was not the driving force for her. This is what probably led her to mess up relationship with the Sikhs too. IG was in all probability irreligious.

And maybe Rajiv gandhi was more Hindu than IG. After all his body was burnt after death. But he still messed up in Shah Bano case. But then again maybe that was a political move.

Ramjanma bhoomi was a political stunt by RG. It had nothing to do with his beliefs. Maybe he attempted to rediscover Hinduism since he never got to learn it directly from either of his parents. But I suspect he did not get very far.

 

[Indrani]

North Indians are much more hostile to communism than South Indians.

The reason that so much leftist come from North India is because Ruling Dispensation ie Congress supported Leftist universities in return of which, leftists have reduced Indian freedom struggle to one man show and have indulged in every form of negationism possible.

It is patronage rather than marxist inclination of North India which is the cause of high number of north historians ( most of leftist uni like JNU, Jadavpur, AMU are in North).

Even if you say it was patronage by the establishment, majority of these establishment folks were NI Brahmins. Without overwhelming support from all these people it would not have been possible. What about the common folks? How could they forget their own history?

United India was 25% muslim so it was only natural that Nehru was interested in Islam. Same was true for Gandhi. I don't think it had anything to do with the religion itself. If that was so then he and Jinnha would have been good friends

IG was the one who supported Israeli consulate in bombay when the entire arab world AND muslims in India insisted we close it down. She was also acutely aware that the Jewish controlled Media was against her. But maybe I was wrong to say she disliked muslims. She did not recognize religion (hindu & muslim) as the fundamental driving force in India, probably because it was not the driving force for her. This is what probably led her to mess up relationship with the Sikhs too. IG was in all probability irreligious.

And maybe Rajiv gandhi was more Hindu than IG. After all his body was burnt after death. But he still messed up in Shah Bano case. But then again maybe that was a political move.

Ramjanma bhoomi was a political stunt by RG. It had nothing to do with his beliefs. Maybe he attempted to rediscover Hinduism since he never got to learn it directly from either of his parents. But I suspect he did not get very far.

Gandhi had screwed up idea about Hinduism, but he never considered himself culturally Muslim. Nehru did. Everything about him, his style of dressing, his contempt of saints and sadhus, just about everything reeked of contempt for Hindus and Hinduism.

Also his enmity with Jinnah had nothing to do with his dislike of Islam, more of 2 selfish egos butting heads.