The real Seoul story: At the NSG plenary, China behaved not as an enlightened power

[illusion8]

NSG never meant anything to us--- we can get every nuke stuff available in the market .

So does north Korea from the nuclear Walmart, I don't think you would understand the finer difference.

 

[SamantK]

Again every body serves national interests, Tit for tat if it comes to that, India does what in self interest to them and China does whats in interest to them, Problem arrives when one party think they're holier than thou, Then the perception turns in to victimhood

We understand that but when a country and its citizen hide behind the veil of holiness and expect India to play nice despite the reality on the ground, they need to be reminded of the hypocrisy they indulge in. For a country which keeps repeating a punchline of "Peaceful rise", it needs to show it in actions rather than the blatant disregard for its neighbors.

 

[Mentee]

Why is China becoming more like Pakistan day by day? Opposing everything India does. Don't they consider themselves a world leading economy ? China opposing India's NSG servers no purpose in reality. If China thinks India will be using Nuclear material for nukes to be used against China in a war, then it must know there are always other ways to acquire Nuke material from already somewhat hostile western countries like Aus which is increasing its military budget year after year to counter China. All India needs NSG is for easier trading of Nuclear material to make up some of the energy deficit in coming years since increasing nuclear share in power generation is our target. And if China has opposition to this, means it has opposition to progression of Indian economy.

Terii isi adaa p sanam
Try to comprehend the situation from some of your own past deeds----- folks around you have just started to return the favours---

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Don't deter, show a news where it doesnt mention the obvious terms like Agrees, next month so on and so forth.

India didnt sign the agreements yet, and its obvious whose side China is on esp after it put its cards on table at NSG.

China can no more whine about India bringing US into the politics of Asia.


There were reports to this effects, if you have followed the news Chinese delegate had to save face, when he said Indian membership will not be taken up in seoul and then the same guy giving NPT as the only reason for opposition

Repeating same lie again and again wont make one truth .

Did I already asked you ?
Where is the press release of the MEA where India signed CISMOA/LSA.

Any link ???

US came here for our support and we are just exploiting it


Your post is reported for making same arguement again and again without any link or proof .

More lies by @Chinese-Dragon

Hush!.............you bloody phools

Don't you know both CISMOA and LSA are about deployment of American troops on foreign soil.

Because:

CISMOA : - Communication and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement:

CISMOA, meanwhile, would allow the United States to supply India with its proprietary encrypted communications equipment and systems, allowing secure peacetime and wartime communication between high-level military leaders on both sides. CISMOA would extend this capability to Indian and U.S. military assets, including aircraft and ships.

Infact CISMOA is not necessity for future sensitive American military communications equipment transfers to India:

The gear on the P-8 platform that was held off as a result of the absence of a CISMOA, are understood to include a Raytheon IFF transponder (Mode IV Crypto), SINCGARS radio, TACTERM/ADVT secure voice (HF) terminals and Rockwell-Collins SATCOM transceivers.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2012/07/without-cismoa-indian-navy-works-p-8i.html

After all you working in IT field know very well the field of "Information Security" has been about deployment of American troops in order to secure confidentiality, security and availability of information at all times

I worked for 1 year in American MNC on a IT Security job, and all this while had an American solider deployed behind my cubicle in compliance with CISMOA.

LSA: Logistics Support Agreement.

As already mentioned, the LSA is similar to the ACSA that the US has with many of its North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) allies. The ACSA statute, formerly known as ‘NATO Mutual Support Act’, was enacted in 1979 to simplify exchanges of logistics support, supplies, and services between the US and other NATO forces. Subsequently, it was amended in 1986, 1992, and 1994 to permit acquisition and crossservicing agreements with non-NATO eligible countries or international organizations.8 At present, the US has signed such agreements with over 80 countries around the world, including NATO member countries. In South Asia, it signed this agreement with Afghanistan in February 20049 and with Sri Lanka in March 200710 for ten years to transfer and exchange logistics supplies, support, and re-fuelling of services during joint military exercises, peacekeeping missions, and humanitarian relief operations.11 It is quite pertinent to mention here that the US Department of Defense (DoD) and the Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence had also signed this agreement in February 2002 which lapsed in February 2012.12 In a recent report, Pakistan’s Parliamentary Committee on National Security (PCNS) recommended that the agreement ‘may only be renewed if required on new terms and conditions that should include respect for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan and ensures the national interests.’13 Besides India, the US is currently negotiating with other South Asian countries14 for signing this agreement which will enhance DoD’s rapid deployment capacity and capability to conduct global operations by adding logistical options in South Asia, which ultimately reduces cost and provides flexibility to US forces moving through the region.

http://www.idsa.in/system/files/jds_7_1_SarojBishoyi.pdf

Don't you know For 10 years from 2002 to 2012, with LSA agreement signed with Pakistan, USA deployed thousands of its troops on Pakistani soil.

Same will happen to India, if we sign LSA


On serious note:
At this rate of misinformation being spread won't be long before these people claim India NSG waiver allows America to deploy its nuclear arsenal of Indian soil.

 

[Mentee]

Doe

So does north Korea from the nuclear Walmart, I don't think you would understand the finer difference.

Doesn't matter if its from Lucifer as far as we get needed things we ain't playing angel here jis Ko jo ukhardna hain ukhard lo

 

[911]

Its not about the US or the trust issues, they all might be there, but there is a way to asses them. Sheer contempt for my country masquerading as silly analysis pontificated by a self important Ahole is what got my goat.

Ignore him.

But its very much possible what he said. Its possible that US just wants a favour in return for a favour and by taking up this far they have done thier job as they may think. But then why would US have any problem with India entering NSG. Some things are not as clear as they look. Just opinions bro i may be biased due to me being US hater.

 

[Gibbs]

Our biggest concerns were Australians, Canadians - who have started started up plying uranium to India, nuclear tech from Russia, US, France are all going to be implemented soon..The only serious nation left is Japan who most likely will have a bilateral agreement with India soon after the Chinese action.

This is long term that's being played out.

As an Australian citizen i can tell you the Howard liberal government out did the NPT way before India even thought of getting in to the NSG, The mining boom of the 2000's put an end to all trade embargoes the labor government imposed, That had nothing to do with anything India specific, Same goes to Canada.. For these nations who are the suppliers, trade out weighs any other protocol

The thing is India does'nt really need the NSG, As far as the nuclear interests were concerned.. They already have the bi lateral waiver, This was all about power projection and India's status as a growing power and acceptance, The problem was it was ill conceived and ill timed maybe bad judgement about the US support and capability maybe over confidence by the Modi government, In the end it ended up a major diplomatic disaster for India, How many attempts of sugar coating it or blaming China would'nt change that, And for a aspiring global leader this was a highly damaging to India's standing.. One reason the overreaction and bitterness to it from most quarters in India

 

[911]

past deeds

You mean 4 failed attempts by Pak?

 

[Gibbs]

Gibbs is an anonymous poster on a shit grade forum people visit mostly to troll.

Gibbs believes his conjecture is "clear as facts to anyone with an iota of coomonsense,some who is nuanced in geopolitics or went to high school."
Ok fair enough.

Yet Gibbs dismisses conjecture, backed by official statement of Indian MEA, made by a professional political commentator with extensive contacts in Indian MEA who incidentally also gets published in national newspapers in India on a regular basis as just an opinion.
Just to satisfy his pet peeve.

Gibbs is a moron with an extremely inflated opinion of himself.

Don't be like Gibbs.

Bravo.. Very original for a 8 year old

 

[The Sandman]

Bravo.. Very original for a 8 year old

Calling PDF a "shit grade" forum i think he hasn't visited Indian defence forums yet....

 

[Mentee]

You mean 4 failed attempts by Pak?

Which 4 ? Do any of these attempts include the formation of Pak

 

[danger007]

Basically, India sold their sovereignty to America by agreeing to sign the CISMOA/LSA which would allow American troops to operate out of Indian soil, in exchange for the NSG seat.

India, US agree on logistics agreement, to be signed in a month - The Hindu

But they seriously overestimated America's ability to deliver the NSG seat. As they found out recently.

It seems India has no idea of what "veto power" means. It means we can shut it down anytime, for any reason. In fact we don't even need to give a reason.

India paid out of their nose for US support, but they did not give a similar payment to us, so they didn't get anything in return.

here we go CISMOA/LSA.. lol

 

[Gibbs]

it needs to show it in actions rather than the blatant disregard for its neighbors.

Very subjective is'nt it ? .. How many of India's neighbors think other wise of India ? As Nepal includes itself in to that list, It's really a natural phenomenon, China humongous power, Projecting that power throughout it's territory, Pissing off smaller neighbors, India like wise dominating South Asia geographically and using it's power for it's interests among it's much smaller nations, Pissing them off.. So yeah i dont see a difference

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

As an Australian citizen i can tell you the Howard liberal government out did the NPT way before India even thought of getting in to the NSG, The mining boom of the 2000's put an end to all trade embargoes the labor government imposed, That had nothing to do with anything India specific, Same goes to Canada.. For these nations who are the suppliers, trade out weighs any other protocol

The thing is India does'nt really need the NSG, As far as the nuclear interests were concerned.. They already have the bi lateral waiver, This was all about power projection and India's status as a growing power and acceptance, The problem was it was ill conceived and ill timed maybe bad judgement about the US support and capability maybe over confidence by the Modi government, In the end it ended up a major diplomatic disaster for India, How many attempts of sugar coating it or blaming China would'nt change that, And for a aspiring global leader this was a highly damaging to India's standing.. One reason the overreaction and bitterness to it from most quarters in India

Just add another minor benefit of NSG membership for India.

Sealing any future chance of China attempt to nullify India's NSG waiver. Granted there is little chance for this as it would be Herculean task and overwhelmingly more difficult than India's current NSG membership application.

 

[SamantK]

Very subjective is'nt it ? .. How many of India's neighbors think other wise of India ? As Nepal includes itself in to that list, It's really a natural phenomenon, China humongous power, Projecting that power throughout it's territory, Pissing off smaller neighbors, India like wise dominating South Asia geographically and using it's power for it's interests among it's much smaller nations, Pissing them off.. So yeah i dont see a difference

You really need to read more about Nepal, the trouble brewing there and then compare it with Vietnam and others. However, your point is valid it pisses off some but claiming seas just because you have enough power to resist the takeover is hegemonic.
Its like you want countries to get pissed and more importantly threatened.