The Real Reason Why India Does Not Actually Want More Su-30MKI Fighters

[HAIDER]

by Dario Leone
Two companies replied to IAF request for information (RFI) for a new single-engine fighter.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is not keen to buying an extra 40 Su-30MKI fighters. Actually half of the service fighter fleet is made up of the aircraft and the Sukhoi fighter is expensive to maintain.

India’s Mail Today in fact was told by government sources that “The Russians along with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which assembles the planes in India, have offered to sell 40 more of these planes to the Air Force but the Air Force does not seem to be very keen on acquiring them due to the heavy cost of maintenancewhich makes them very expensive to manage in the long run.”

The IAF has been undergoing a modernization program to replace and upgrade its aging fighter fleet since the late 1990s. On Jan. 3, 2017, Minister of Defence Manohar Parrikar claimed that IAF is in need of “200 new single engine fighters to be made in India, which will easily cost around (USD)$45 million apiece without weaponry.”

Two companies replied to IAF request for information (RFI) for a new single-engine fighter.


Swedish planemaker SAAB announced its intention to partner with Adani Group to build the Gripen E fighter jet in India. Lockheed Martin and Tata Group instead signed an agreement to manufacture the F-16 in India. Another Lockheed Martin proposal it to build the F-35 fifth generation stealth fighter jet in India. Noteworthy manufacturing the Lightning II in the country would give the Indian industry the chance to become part of the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.

However on Feb. 23, 2018 The Times of India reported that the country opened the tender up to twin-engine designs.

In consideration of this change, the American F/A-18 Super Hornet, the Russian MiG-35and the European Rafale (36 of which have already been ordered by IAF) and Eurofighter Typhoon fighters along with the combat planes already listed above are considered to be the serious contenders in the new IAF project for which a request for proposal (RFP) is likely to be issued by the defence ministry before the end of this year.

This article by Dario Leone originally appeared on The Aviation Geek Club in 2018.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/real-reason-why-india-does-101300231.html

 

[Clutch]

by Dario Leone
Two companies replied to IAF request for information (RFI) for a new single-engine fighter.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is not keen to buying an extra 40 Su-30MKI fighters. Actually half of the service fighter fleet is made up of the aircraft and the Sukhoi fighter is expensive to maintain.

India’s Mail Today in fact was told by government sources that “The Russians along with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which assembles the planes in India, have offered to sell 40 more of these planes to the Air Force but the Air Force does not seem to be very keen on acquiring them due to the heavy cost of maintenancewhich makes them very expensive to manage in the long run.”

The IAF has been undergoing a modernization program to replace and upgrade its aging fighter fleet since the late 1990s. On Jan. 3, 2017, Minister of Defence Manohar Parrikar claimed that IAF is in need of “200 new single engine fighters to be made in India, which will easily cost around (USD)$45 million apiece without weaponry.”

Two companies replied to IAF request for information (RFI) for a new single-engine fighter.


Swedish planemaker SAAB announced its intention to partner with Adani Group to build the Gripen E fighter jet in India. Lockheed Martin and Tata Group instead signed an agreement to manufacture the F-16 in India. Another Lockheed Martin proposal it to build the F-35 fifth generation stealth fighter jet in India. Noteworthy manufacturing the Lightning II in the country would give the Indian industry the chance to become part of the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.

However on Feb. 23, 2018 The Times of India reported that the country opened the tender up to twin-engine designs.

In consideration of this change, the American F/A-18 Super Hornet, the Russian MiG-35and the European Rafale (36 of which have already been ordered by IAF) and Eurofighter Typhoon fighters along with the combat planes already listed above are considered to be the serious contenders in the new IAF project for which a request for proposal (RFP) is likely to be issued by the defence ministry before the end of this year.

This article by Dario Leone originally appeared on The Aviation Geek Club in 2018.

The real reason is that the plane is easily shot down by Pakistan JF-17

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

The real reason is that the plane is easily shot down by Pakistan JF-17

Jf 17 and f-16 can see and lock flankers at 2x distance as compared to flankers (su-30/35) because of over all size width and height of aircraft. They see f-16 very late in battle and jf-17 even later.

200 km tracking ability and 120 km lock on at 90% kill probability if the speeds are correct. Its very very hard for flankers to fly alone so they need small aircraft lile tejas and mig 21 in formation to survive.

Once these small single engine offensive aircraft and neutralized su-30/35 has no option but to run away because it is a big bulls eye in the sky very big and easy to hit.

 

[Chanakyaa]

They see f-16 very late in battle and jf-17 even later.

How do you know that ?

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

How do you know that ?

We fly with Su-30 and Su-35 with many countries in mock air battles. Examples PAF vs PLAAF , PAF VS indonesian air force, PAF vs American Air Force Agressor squadrons, PAF vs Algerian Air Force, PAF vs Malaysian Air Force, PAF vs Kazakhstan Air Force, PAF Vs Myuanmar Air Force. Myuanmar flies JF 17 everyday against their own S-30s. Even Egypt and Ukraine have been huge help with su-27 airframe. In last 45 years PAF has not been sleeping.
We even have many hours fighting and flying Rafale aircraft in countries of Europe and Middle east like Qatar. A good air force always is 1 step ahead of enemy. We know how battles will play out we play them every week. Thats how we know.

Plus the things i wrote you can see that info even on publically available websites of airforces in europe.
In the image below left (blue is su--30) right (red) is jf 17 size comparison

 

[Dil Pakistan]

by Dario Leone
Two companies replied to IAF request for information (RFI) for a new single-engine fighter.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is not keen to buying an extra 40 Su-30MKI fighters. Actually half of the service fighter fleet is made up of the aircraft and the Sukhoi fighter is expensive to maintain.

India’s Mail Today in fact was told by government sources that “The Russians along with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which assembles the planes in India, have offered to sell 40 more of these planes to the Air Force but the Air Force does not seem to be very keen on acquiring them due to the heavy cost of maintenancewhich makes them very expensive to manage in the long run.”

The IAF has been undergoing a modernization program to replace and upgrade its aging fighter fleet since the late 1990s. On Jan. 3, 2017, Minister of Defence Manohar Parrikar claimed that IAF is in need of “200 new single engine fighters to be made in India, which will easily cost around (USD)$45 million apiece without weaponry.”

Two companies replied to IAF request for information (RFI) for a new single-engine fighter.


Swedish planemaker SAAB announced its intention to partner with Adani Group to build the Gripen E fighter jet in India. Lockheed Martin and Tata Group instead signed an agreement to manufacture the F-16 in India. Another Lockheed Martin proposal it to build the F-35 fifth generation stealth fighter jet in India. Noteworthy manufacturing the Lightning II in the country would give the Indian industry the chance to become part of the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.

However on Feb. 23, 2018 The Times of India reported that the country opened the tender up to twin-engine designs.

In consideration of this change, the American F/A-18 Super Hornet, the Russian MiG-35and the European Rafale (36 of which have already been ordered by IAF) and Eurofighter Typhoon fighters along with the combat planes already listed above are considered to be the serious contenders in the new IAF project for which a request for proposal (RFP) is likely to be issued by the defence ministry before the end of this year.

This article by Dario Leone originally appeared on The Aviation Geek Club in 2018.

I think this is also a sign of SHRINKING Indian economy. Noteworthy that it is the "cost" that has deterred IAF from extra 40 SU-30 (a jet that they well versed with in last 20-years, similar to F-16 for PAF).

I think that as the economy shrinks further, the wind will go out of all the plans; including F-35, MiG-35, Gripen and F-21.

All these companies want profits and big ones. If IAF / India has no money, that is the end.

 

[Keysersoze]

MKI is NOT MKM.

No it is more complicated to maintain.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

MKI is NOT MKM.

Frame is the same. Radar sees frames not avionics. Engine and frame shape size height width is same.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Frame is the same. Radar sees frames not avionics. Engine and frame shape size height width is same.

Well said. Thank you.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Jf17 is the BEST PLANE. You like it or not. Its Cheap, It defeated MKI ( IAFs best plane ) and and is Sanction Free.
Its already being made in Pakistan. BLK III is close.. what else do you want ?

I want you to relax and calm down.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

No it is more complicated to maintain.

The Russians by nature have very strong opinions, and are like "my way or high way"....

 

[SQ8]

The aircraft was focused on the fight of the 2010s at best. The TVC hampers its weight and its massive size is a detriment to its detection.
Its better off now as a missile house to act as a wall of missile launches against opposing forces.

Not to mention that it needs 2 pilots for effective operation in a country that is losing pilots to a growing commercial aviation sector.

 

[Humble Analyst]

How do you know that ?

You want to guess the RCS of Su30 vs F16 or JF17?

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

You want to guess the RCS of Su30 vs F16 or JF17?

Guessing RCS is not needed Pakistan, israel, usa, china, Ukraine , Russia , india and usa fly against each other in mock excercises. Pakistan usa and israel and russia have battlefield experience in them.

RCS of Su30 mki are thought around 5 to 10 sqaure meters, F-15C is 15. Su-27 is 15, mig-21 is 3, F-16C without CFT are 1.2. JF 17 is highly classified but france and chinese gorums put it around 0.7 to 0.8.
No way to be sure. F-18 is also around 0.9 to 1. Thing to note is f-18 and jf-17 look very similar and fly very similar only major difference is single engine on jf 17. Both have design inputs from Northrop Gruman.
Rafale is 0.7 to 1 as well.

Also a word from the pilots is su-30mki has very good counter measures against amraam missiles like aim 120C but if a salvo (multiple) missiles are fired at a target in a planned way it is over whelmed and with even just 4 missiles at the same time. And on 27th feb atleast 10 were fired at 2 su 30 mkiz one ran away other got hit with 2 armrams . just a rumor no way to confirm it hence not officially claimed it fell inside indian controlled territory of kashmir

 

[Humble Analyst]

Guessing RCS is not needed Pakistan, israel, usa, china, Ukraine , Russia , india and usa fly against each other in mock excercises. Pakistan usa and israel and russia have battlefield experience in them.

RCS of Su30 mki are thought around 5 to 10 sqaure meters, F-15C is 15. Su-27 is 15, mig-21 is 3, F-16C without CFT are 1.2. JF 17 is highly classified but france and chinese gorums put it around 0.7 to 0.8.
No way to be sure. F-18 is also around 0.9 to 1. Thing to note is f-18 and jf-17 look very similar and fly very similar only major difference is single engine on jf 17. Both have design inputs from Northrop Gruman.
Rafale is 0.7 to 1 as well.

Also a word from the pilots is su-30mki has very good counter measures against amraam missiles like aim 120C but if a salvo (multiple) missiles are fired at a target in a planned way it is over whelmed and with even just 4 missiles at the same time. And on 27th feb atleast 10 were fired at 2 su 30 mkiz one ran away other got hit with 2 armrams . just a rumor no way to confirm it hence not officially claimed it fell inside indian controlled territory of kashmir

Thanks I wanted to emphasise that Su30 has a higher RCS compared to PAF planes.