The REAL L4 Autonomous Driving brought by Chinese tech giant Huawei, demonstrated in Shanghai.
- Thread starter Beast
- Start date
In many advance countries, heavy shortage of truck driver and delivery man. Driving in fact is a low level job.
I will suggest, pilot. taxi driver, bus driver , truck driver all these to plan for their future soon.
j20blackdragon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Why would you need Youtube videos? In 3-4 years, every major city in China will have large fleets of fully driverless robotaxis on full display. L4 or even L5 autonomous capabilities are achievable TODAY if you are willing to use lidar. So why doesn't Tesla use lidar? The answer is COST. The cost of placing a complicated (and bulky) lidar system on a car could be somewhere around $10,000+ if the U.S. tried to do it today. Tesla is highly focused on costs and making sure the cars are affordable. Adding the price of a lidar on top of an already expensive car is a terrible idea if your target market is the private individual.
Plus take a look at the Waymo lidar system. Look how BULKY it is. How many private car owners want to own a car that looks like this?
Looks are less of a problem with a robotaxi. And a robotaxi will pay for itself after a certain number of rides.
Also China has one more secret weapon. China is the only country in the world that can produce the low cost, SMALL SIZE lidar system. Take a look at the Huawei car. It has lidar, but can you see it?
For those that are interested...
Front lidar:
Side lidar:
Notice how the lidar sensors are neatly integrated into the auto body. No bulky equipment.
Until proven otherwise, lidar is the #1 collision avoidance system for autonomous driving. You can't put a price on safety.
Until proven otherwise, Tesla's vision-only system doesn't even work for L4/L5 driving. There’s already a body of evidence that shows Tesla’s deep learning algorithms are not very good at dealing with unexpected scenery. In 2016, a Tesla crashed into a white tractor-trailer truck because its AI vision algorithm failed to detect the white-colored vehicle against the brightly lit sky. Lidar works just fine driving into the sun on the brightest days as well as on moonless nights, along with MANY other advantages.
Lidar along with the millimeter wave radars put the Huawei system a generation ahead of whatever Tesla is currently offering in terms of sensors.
Last edited:
j20blackdragon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Explainer: Tesla drops radar; is Autopilot system safe?
June 2 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has dropped radar sensors from its semi-autonomous driving system, Autopilot, raising concerns over the safety of the camera-only version, Tesla Vision.
Tesla aims to make the driver-assist system fully self-driving, and many in that young industry are skeptical that a vision-only system will work, saying such systems face challenges in darkness, sunny glare and poor weather conditions.
Safety ratings groups have dropped their labels until they test newly configured cars.
Still, Tesla's chief executive, Elon Musk, has surprised the industry before - first and foremost by turning the electric vehicle maker into the world's most valuable car company.
Here are some questions and answers about Tesla's bet on a camera-based system.
HOW DOES TESLA'S SYSTEM WORK, WITH AND WITHOUT RADAR?
Tesla in May started delivering Model 3 and Model Y with a driver-assist system based on eight cameras mounted around the car and with no radar. The cameras, like eyes, send images to computer networks, like the brain, which recognize and analyse objects.
Over the years, Tesla's view of radar has changed.
In May 2016, a Tesla car crashed, killing the driver, when Autopilot failed to detect a white semi-truck crossing in front of it.
Later that year, Tesla announced a plan to give radar a primary role in navigation while describing a false-alarm problem with some radar systems that needed to be fixed.
"Good thing about radar is that, unlike lidar ... it can see through rain, snow, fog and dust," Musk tweeted in 2016. Tesla also said radar "plays an essential role in detecting and responding to forward objects." Tesla does not use a more expensive lidar sensor, which gives more precise shape information of an object than radar.
Tesla drivers complained of "phantom braking" when their cars stopped abruptly on highways under an overpass or a bridge.
Musk said the new camera-only system will likely be safer than radar because of less "noise" or confusing signals, industry news site Electrek reported.
After the May 2016 crash, Tesla had similar accidents of cars crashing into semi-trucks and stationary police cars and fire trucks. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is currently investigating 24 accidents involving Tesla cars.
HOW DO OTHER SELF-DRIVING TECHNOLOGIES WORK?
Most automakers and self-driving vehicle companies such as Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) Waymo use three types of sensors: Cameras, radar and lidar.
Radar systems, like cameras, are relatively inexpensive. They work in poor weather but lack resolution to accurately determine the shape of objects. Lidar has higher resolution, but is vulnerable to weather conditions.
"You need to use all the different kinds of sensors and then combine them," said Raj Rajkumar, professor of electrical and computer engineering at Carnegie Mellon University, reflecting a common industry view.
Tesla's camera-centric system is "much harder to design, but it is also much cheaper" than Waymo's laser-based lidar approach, enabling the electric car maker to scale up and further improve its technology, Tesla's artificial intelligence director, Andrej Karpathy, said in a “Robot Brains” podcast in March.
WHAT DOES TESLA LOSE BY GIVING UP RADAR?
There is a lot of debate on this issue.
The loss of radar degrades driver-support features enough "to render them less usable to unusable in adverse weather conditions," Steven Shladover, a research engineer at Berkeley University of California.
"It makes no sense whatsoever technologically - only a way of reducing cost of components," he said.
Since radar is good at measuring distances accurately, its loss could affect emergency braking to avoid collisions with slowed vehicles, said Ram Machness, chief business officer of advanced radar maker Arbe Robotics.
"If you drop radar without proving vision alone does that job as well, then you're compromising safety," Telanon, a developer of a driver support system, said on Twitter.
Tesla said some driver-assistant features including its ability to maintain speed at the pace of the car ahead may be temporarily limited or inactive upon delivery. It said it would start restoring the features via software updates in the weeks ahead.
Musk told Electrek that the vision system had improved so much that it was better off without radar.
Last week, NHTSA withdrew its advanced safety features label for new Model 3 and Model Y vehicles and Consumer Reports dropped its "top pick" label. Both intend to test the vision-only system.
WHO KNOWS BEST?
Tesla's plan runs counter to most of the self-driving industry, but it is difficult to say who is right. No company has yet deployed a fully functional self-driving system in scale, and the entire industry is years behind initial projections.
www.reuters.com
June 2 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has dropped radar sensors from its semi-autonomous driving system, Autopilot, raising concerns over the safety of the camera-only version, Tesla Vision.
Tesla aims to make the driver-assist system fully self-driving, and many in that young industry are skeptical that a vision-only system will work, saying such systems face challenges in darkness, sunny glare and poor weather conditions.
Safety ratings groups have dropped their labels until they test newly configured cars.
Still, Tesla's chief executive, Elon Musk, has surprised the industry before - first and foremost by turning the electric vehicle maker into the world's most valuable car company.
Here are some questions and answers about Tesla's bet on a camera-based system.
HOW DOES TESLA'S SYSTEM WORK, WITH AND WITHOUT RADAR?
Tesla in May started delivering Model 3 and Model Y with a driver-assist system based on eight cameras mounted around the car and with no radar. The cameras, like eyes, send images to computer networks, like the brain, which recognize and analyse objects.
Over the years, Tesla's view of radar has changed.
In May 2016, a Tesla car crashed, killing the driver, when Autopilot failed to detect a white semi-truck crossing in front of it.
Later that year, Tesla announced a plan to give radar a primary role in navigation while describing a false-alarm problem with some radar systems that needed to be fixed.
"Good thing about radar is that, unlike lidar ... it can see through rain, snow, fog and dust," Musk tweeted in 2016. Tesla also said radar "plays an essential role in detecting and responding to forward objects." Tesla does not use a more expensive lidar sensor, which gives more precise shape information of an object than radar.
Tesla drivers complained of "phantom braking" when their cars stopped abruptly on highways under an overpass or a bridge.
Musk said the new camera-only system will likely be safer than radar because of less "noise" or confusing signals, industry news site Electrek reported.
After the May 2016 crash, Tesla had similar accidents of cars crashing into semi-trucks and stationary police cars and fire trucks. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is currently investigating 24 accidents involving Tesla cars.
HOW DO OTHER SELF-DRIVING TECHNOLOGIES WORK?
Most automakers and self-driving vehicle companies such as Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) Waymo use three types of sensors: Cameras, radar and lidar.
Radar systems, like cameras, are relatively inexpensive. They work in poor weather but lack resolution to accurately determine the shape of objects. Lidar has higher resolution, but is vulnerable to weather conditions.
"You need to use all the different kinds of sensors and then combine them," said Raj Rajkumar, professor of electrical and computer engineering at Carnegie Mellon University, reflecting a common industry view.
Tesla's camera-centric system is "much harder to design, but it is also much cheaper" than Waymo's laser-based lidar approach, enabling the electric car maker to scale up and further improve its technology, Tesla's artificial intelligence director, Andrej Karpathy, said in a “Robot Brains” podcast in March.
WHAT DOES TESLA LOSE BY GIVING UP RADAR?
There is a lot of debate on this issue.
The loss of radar degrades driver-support features enough "to render them less usable to unusable in adverse weather conditions," Steven Shladover, a research engineer at Berkeley University of California.
"It makes no sense whatsoever technologically - only a way of reducing cost of components," he said.
Since radar is good at measuring distances accurately, its loss could affect emergency braking to avoid collisions with slowed vehicles, said Ram Machness, chief business officer of advanced radar maker Arbe Robotics.
"If you drop radar without proving vision alone does that job as well, then you're compromising safety," Telanon, a developer of a driver support system, said on Twitter.
Tesla said some driver-assistant features including its ability to maintain speed at the pace of the car ahead may be temporarily limited or inactive upon delivery. It said it would start restoring the features via software updates in the weeks ahead.
Musk told Electrek that the vision system had improved so much that it was better off without radar.
Last week, NHTSA withdrew its advanced safety features label for new Model 3 and Model Y vehicles and Consumer Reports dropped its "top pick" label. Both intend to test the vision-only system.
WHO KNOWS BEST?
Tesla's plan runs counter to most of the self-driving industry, but it is difficult to say who is right. No company has yet deployed a fully functional self-driving system in scale, and the entire industry is years behind initial projections.
Explainer: Tesla drops radar; is Autopilot system safe?
Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has dropped radar sensors from its semi-autonomous driving system, Autopilot, raising concerns over the safety of the camera-only version, Tesla Vision.
Another Boeing B737 Max in the making...Explainer: Tesla drops radar; is Autopilot system safe?
June 2 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has dropped radar sensors from its semi-autonomous driving system, Autopilot, raising concerns over the safety of the camera-only version, Tesla Vision.
Tesla aims to make the driver-assist system fully self-driving, and many in that young industry are skeptical that a vision-only system will work, saying such systems face challenges in darkness, sunny glare and poor weather conditions.
Safety ratings groups have dropped their labels until they test newly configured cars.
Still, Tesla's chief executive, Elon Musk, has surprised the industry before - first and foremost by turning the electric vehicle maker into the world's most valuable car company.
Here are some questions and answers about Tesla's bet on a camera-based system.
HOW DOES TESLA'S SYSTEM WORK, WITH AND WITHOUT RADAR?
Tesla in May started delivering Model 3 and Model Y with a driver-assist system based on eight cameras mounted around the car and with no radar. The cameras, like eyes, send images to computer networks, like the brain, which recognize and analyse objects.
Over the years, Tesla's view of radar has changed.
In May 2016, a Tesla car crashed, killing the driver, when Autopilot failed to detect a white semi-truck crossing in front of it.
Later that year, Tesla announced a plan to give radar a primary role in navigation while describing a false-alarm problem with some radar systems that needed to be fixed.
"Good thing about radar is that, unlike lidar ... it can see through rain, snow, fog and dust," Musk tweeted in 2016. Tesla also said radar "plays an essential role in detecting and responding to forward objects." Tesla does not use a more expensive lidar sensor, which gives more precise shape information of an object than radar.
Tesla drivers complained of "phantom braking" when their cars stopped abruptly on highways under an overpass or a bridge.
Musk said the new camera-only system will likely be safer than radar because of less "noise" or confusing signals, industry news site Electrek reported.
After the May 2016 crash, Tesla had similar accidents of cars crashing into semi-trucks and stationary police cars and fire trucks. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is currently investigating 24 accidents involving Tesla cars.
HOW DO OTHER SELF-DRIVING TECHNOLOGIES WORK?
Most automakers and self-driving vehicle companies such as Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) Waymo use three types of sensors: Cameras, radar and lidar.
Radar systems, like cameras, are relatively inexpensive. They work in poor weather but lack resolution to accurately determine the shape of objects. Lidar has higher resolution, but is vulnerable to weather conditions.
"You need to use all the different kinds of sensors and then combine them," said Raj Rajkumar, professor of electrical and computer engineering at Carnegie Mellon University, reflecting a common industry view.
Tesla's camera-centric system is "much harder to design, but it is also much cheaper" than Waymo's laser-based lidar approach, enabling the electric car maker to scale up and further improve its technology, Tesla's artificial intelligence director, Andrej Karpathy, said in a “Robot Brains” podcast in March.
WHAT DOES TESLA LOSE BY GIVING UP RADAR?
There is a lot of debate on this issue.
The loss of radar degrades driver-support features enough "to render them less usable to unusable in adverse weather conditions," Steven Shladover, a research engineer at Berkeley University of California.
"It makes no sense whatsoever technologically - only a way of reducing cost of components," he said.
Since radar is good at measuring distances accurately, its loss could affect emergency braking to avoid collisions with slowed vehicles, said Ram Machness, chief business officer of advanced radar maker Arbe Robotics.
"If you drop radar without proving vision alone does that job as well, then you're compromising safety," Telanon, a developer of a driver support system, said on Twitter.
Tesla said some driver-assistant features including its ability to maintain speed at the pace of the car ahead may be temporarily limited or inactive upon delivery. It said it would start restoring the features via software updates in the weeks ahead.
Musk told Electrek that the vision system had improved so much that it was better off without radar.
Last week, NHTSA withdrew its advanced safety features label for new Model 3 and Model Y vehicles and Consumer Reports dropped its "top pick" label. Both intend to test the vision-only system.
WHO KNOWS BEST?
Tesla's plan runs counter to most of the self-driving industry, but it is difficult to say who is right. No company has yet deployed a fully functional self-driving system in scale, and the entire industry is years behind initial projections.
Explainer: Tesla drops radar; is Autopilot system safe?
Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has dropped radar sensors from its semi-autonomous driving system, Autopilot, raising concerns over the safety of the camera-only version, Tesla Vision.
Daniel808
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2013
- Messages
- 4,960
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
For those that are interested...
Front lidar:
Side lidar:
Notice how the lidar sensors are neatly integrated into the auto body. No bulky equipment.
Until proven otherwise, lidar is the #1 collision avoidance system for autonomous driving. You can't put a price on safety.
Until proven otherwise, Tesla's vision-only system doesn't even work for L4/L5 driving. There’s already a body of evidence that shows Tesla’s deep learning algorithms are not very good at dealing with unexpected scenery. In 2016, a Tesla crashed into a white tractor-trailer truck because its AI vision algorithm failed to detect the white-colored vehicle against the brightly lit sky. Lidar works just fine driving into the sun on the brightest days as well as on moonless nights, along with MANY other advantages.
Lidar along with the millimeter wave radars put the Huawei system a generation ahead of whatever Tesla is currently offering in terms of sensors.
Thank you for your explanation
Give many of us, enlightment about Autonomous Driving, in this case about LIDAR
j20blackdragon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
AutoX Gen5
- 50 sensors
- 28 cameras capturing a total of 220 million pixels per second
- 6 high resolution LiDAR offering 15 million points per second
- 4D radar with 0.9-degree resolution encompassing 360 degrees around the vehicle
- 2200 TOPS computing power (Tesla has 144 TOPS)
- zero blind spots
- 50 sensors
- 28 cameras capturing a total of 220 million pixels per second
- 6 high resolution LiDAR offering 15 million points per second
- 4D radar with 0.9-degree resolution encompassing 360 degrees around the vehicle
- 2200 TOPS computing power (Tesla has 144 TOPS)
- zero blind spots
aziqbal
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 7,403
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
your right one spies on its consumers and the others Toyota
Hamartia Antidote
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2013
- Messages
- 35,188
- Reaction score
- 30
- Country
- Location
The Beta version using just cameras/AI is on the street right now being tested by actual consumers after being released a few days ago ...where are the dozens/hundreds of videos of Huawei's fsd system? How can they "prove otherwise" against Huawei's vaporware that doesn't even have many examples??
Last edited:
j20blackdragon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Practically every new vehicle coming out of China is now a "Tesla Killer" car with sensor suite far ahead of whatever Tesla is offering. In other words, Tesla is obsolete and is not long for this world.
WM Motor M7
According to WM Motor, the three LiDARs work in tandem to give a horizontal coverage of 330 degrees and accurately capture complex urban road targets like pedestrians.
CnEVPost reported that in addition to the three LiDARS, the M7 has 5 millimeter-wave radars, 12 ultrasonic radars, seven 8-megapixel cameras, four surround-view cameras, and one independent high-precision positioning module.
The 30+ sensors on the M7 are powered by four NVIDIA DRIV Orin-X chips, offering computing power of 254 TOPS (trillion operations per second) each, and a combined computing power of 1,016 TOPS.
Why so many sensors? WM Motor stated that the decision to implement so much hardware is in anticipation of future L5 autonomous driving.
electrek.co
WM Motor M7
According to WM Motor, the three LiDARs work in tandem to give a horizontal coverage of 330 degrees and accurately capture complex urban road targets like pedestrians.
CnEVPost reported that in addition to the three LiDARS, the M7 has 5 millimeter-wave radars, 12 ultrasonic radars, seven 8-megapixel cameras, four surround-view cameras, and one independent high-precision positioning module.
The 30+ sensors on the M7 are powered by four NVIDIA DRIV Orin-X chips, offering computing power of 254 TOPS (trillion operations per second) each, and a combined computing power of 1,016 TOPS.
Why so many sensors? WM Motor stated that the decision to implement so much hardware is in anticipation of future L5 autonomous driving.
WM Motor officially unveils its flagship M7 sedan with the LiDARs
WM Motor has shared full images and hardware details of its first electric sedan, the M7, complete with three LiDARs and 700km range.
electrek.co
Similar threads
