The real face of CPEC : Destroying Pakistani Industry

[raj76]

If protection worked, you wouldn't have needed to liberalize in 91. If it worked we wouldn't have had to liberalize in 79.

Truth of the matter is Chinese quality is going up and price isn't changing much. Protecting one sector of Indian industry is just going to hurt another. American anti dumping on Chinese steel is hurting the American industries that need steel badly, because all the nations that doesn't do protectionism can still access our steel, and their cost are still low.

If you are fat, you switch to a healthy lifestyle and exercise, you don't double down on donuts and never look at a mirror. That's not how the world works.

Just look at your successful industries, you let them compete on their terms, and you win. China has some harsh protectionist industry they are as competitive internationally as our soccer team.

Have faith in your country man that in the face of adversity they won't lay down and die, and if they will, they'll die anyways.

lol please dont teach me what is liberalization and what we did and dont compare us with any country we have huge domestic market plus we are reforming the sectors were we need and protecting the industries we need to. we cant feed rhetorics to ppl who will loose there job when industry will close down. u have given (and are giving) subsidies to u r industries its not that they are playing on a level field and competing

 

[somebozo]

That's frightening and what is that figure 46 billion usd investment for?...I would appreciate if you backup this claim with a credible source. I can believe the kickbacks part though.

As far as energy crisis is concerned, it is partially artificial and partially it is the mess up of past many govts and it all started with the coming into power of the most corrupt couple in the history of Pakistan BB and her equally or even more corrupt husband...signed the deals and provided sovereign guarantees for installing the fossil fuel based power generation plants at an exorbitant price/unit as they made billions through kickbacks.
The later governments did not address the issue in time including NS, Musharraf, NS and now Khwajasra has made billions in many of the projects ...while the renewable energy potential is sufficient to cater for all current and even future needs for generations to come..i.e. hydel, solar, wind, biomass and nuclear.

I have already withdrawn my statement of 18% loan interest as the information is not clear.

If protection worked, you wouldn't have needed to liberalize in 91. If it worked we wouldn't have had to liberalize in 79.

Truth of the matter is Chinese quality is going up and price isn't changing much. Protecting one sector of Indian industry is just going to hurt another. American anti dumping on Chinese steel is hurting the American industries that need steel badly, because all the nations that doesn't do protectionism can still access our steel, and their cost are still low.

If you are fat, you switch to a healthy lifestyle and exercise, you don't double down on donuts and never look at a mirror. That's not how the world works.

Just look at your successful industries, you let them compete on their terms, and you win. China has some harsh protectionist industry they are as competitive internationally as our soccer team.

Have faith in your country man that in the face of adversity they won't lay down and die, and if they will, they'll die anyways.

American do not want to shut down their steel plants under subsidy pressure of Chinese..such subsidies are specifically intended to destroy importing nation industry therefore illegal and the US will take actions against it..it is not starving anyone off steel..it is creating a level playing field between manufacturers using domestic steel and those using imported..

Words like quality and Chinese dont make sense in the same line...there is no improvement in Chinese quality..the prices have not changed because Chinese have invented engineering level theft in quality and specifications...Chinese suppliers create a good impression of being cheap..only if you know what is being stolen from your pocket!

 

[war&peace]

I have already withdrawn my statement of 18% loan interest as the information is not clear.

Good because we should better be careful in accepting any such figures without a credible source as you know anti-CPEC lobby is very active and lying and false propaganda is the first step.

 

[Genesis]

lol please dont teach me what is liberalization and what we did and dont compare us with any country we have huge domestic market plus we are reforming the sectors were we need and protecting the industries we need to. we cant feed rhetorics to ppl who will loose there job when industry will close down. u have given (and are giving) subsidies to u r industries its not that they are playing on a level field and competing

The only argument you have is China cheats. That is your opinion, I say that because the end result is very different. China didn't invent subsidies and there are very strict rules regarding subsidies, I'm not saying there isn't, but if China's massive success is so tied to subsides, we wouldn't have succeeded.

Unless you are of the opinion everyone is stupid except us and we are taking advantage of everyone.

 

[somebozo]

Good because we should better be careful in accepting any such figures without a credible source as you know anti-CPEC lobby is very active and lying and false propaganda is the first step.

Regardless of the interest rate it is clear that the entire amount is a loan and not an investment..countries promote foreign investments because it promotes economic growth and employment..loans do not promote growth they always leave your economy with a higher value...a loan even at 1% interest is less favorable over investment. Therefore it comes at a shameless expense to the nation that we are being forced to accept Chinese labor for the project..it is just a clever way of routing money back into the Chinese economy while we are left with the responsibility of returning it...the wages paid to Chinese workers do not count!

The only argument you have is China cheats. That is your opinion, I say that because the end result is very different. China didn't invent subsidies and there are very strict rules regarding subsidies, I'm not saying there isn't, but if China's massive success is so tied to subsides, we wouldn't have succeeded.

Unless you are of the opinion everyone is stupid except us and we are taking advantage of everyone.

There is no Chinese company which can produce quality steel like the Germans or quality copper tube like the Americans...hence the only way to sell it is give steep discounts which are made up by government subsidies..

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Good because we should better be careful in accepting any such figures without a credible source as you know anti-CPEC lobby is very active and lying and false propaganda is the first step.

Exactly....Indians will definitely like to create controversies regarding CPEC. Irrespective of what others do......

We have consensus in Pakistan that it should be built at any cost.

We should exploit CPEC to our fullest advantage, also keeping our local businesses intact.

It depends more on us than Chinese.........

I have read news below, is it anyhow related to CPEC?

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1126610/unprecedented-china-eases-rules-pakistans-banks/

@Kaptaan @Viper0011. What do u guys suggest, how should we protect our local businesses?

 

[Genesis]

What Chinese export to the world is markedly different than what they dump in the Asian countries.
So far...anything i have encountered from China in the Pakistani market happens to be ...Cheap counterfeit junk...And that s why manufacturers are still sticking to European and American made components..the prime reason of CPEC is to bring industrial revolution..it is failing at that due to trust issues on Chinese quality...and rather will become a consumer dumping route..

I did not praise the Pakistani manufacturers either..the are addicted to protectionism rather than competition and only churn out cheap junk...actually opening of trade in high quality goods to drive our cheap manufacturers from the market is good...Pak Suzuki , Indus Corolla, Altas Honda they all need to go bankrupt..

Had Pakistani industry kept up..it would have paved the way for its own innovation..but what do Pakistani industries produce?? High priced junk..with designed not evolved since 1970s!

Ok we found the solution then close off the market, don't do anything, I'm sure the world won't move on without you.

You have not suggested one single solution, anyone can find problems in anything, but almost no one has solutions. You can talk about Chinese quality and what not, but that same product is taking us to heights only seen by the superpowers.

Do not live in delusions, who wants to invest in Pakistan, seriously. for all the talk of quality, who buys goods not made in China or established world powers.

Unless you can suddenly make 200 million of your population into skilled workers, give Pakistan the prestige it needs to be able to charge a fair price and have all the cash for R&D, you have no other options. I mean unless staying more of the same is an option.

CPEC may work or it may not, but you know what won't? Doing nothing.

There is no Chinese company which can produce quality steel like the Germans or quality copper tube like the Americans...hence the only way to sell it is give steep discounts which are made up by government subsidies..

So that leaves only the conclusion the world is stupid and happy to be conned by us. I guess yay us.

 

[raj76]

The only argument you have is China cheats. That is your opinion, I say that because the end result is very different. China didn't invent subsidies and there are very strict rules regarding subsidies, I'm not saying there isn't, but if China's massive success is so tied to subsides, we wouldn't have succeeded.

Unless you are of the opinion everyone is stupid except us and we are taking advantage of everyone.

wth man u r whole export scenario was based on value addition and there are different kinds of subsidies
1) power supplied on very cheap rates (includes staem electricity water etc)
2) Raw materials purchased by government in huge quantity gives economy of scale
3) direct indirect taxes and duty drawback on exports
4) Cheap freight corridors
etc etc and i am not saying this is the only factor in chinas success and who said about taking advantage but we have to do things which are in our interest and there any logic given by you is futile

 

[Genesis]

wth man u r whole export scenario was based on value addition and there are different kinds of subsidies
1) power supplied on very cheap rates (includes staem electricity water etc)
2) Raw materials purchased by government in huge quantity gives economy of scale
3) direct indirect taxes and duty drawback on exports
4) Cheap freight corridors
etc etc and i am not saying this is the only factor in chinas success and who said about taking advantage but we have to do things which are in our interest and there any logic given by you is futile

Any country that can do that does, you're going to blame us for our accomplishments in infrastructure? When you had the same opportunity but didn't take them?

You are going to blame China for having a government that does what a government is suppose to do help it's people?

Chinese goods have massively expanded in variety over the years, and that is due to liberalization. I remember a time when state owned factories would make everyday items, they don't exist anymore.

If it is in India's interest to be protectionist, then of course, I'm not a supporter of such initiatives as it stops progress. I mean even now I am very upset over the remaining protectionist policies of China and the slow pace of the new special economic zones.

 

[grey boy 2]

Actually you may be right..i mixed up something..

Of course I am right, NOT maybe right, is it too difficult to admit you get caught with your pants down spreading "FAKE" rumors regarding the so-called "Chinese ripping Pakistanis off with 18% interest rate"?
In FACTS not only its not 18% but way below market rates period









!

 

[somebozo]

Any country that can do that does, you're going to blame us for our accomplishments in infrastructure? When you had the same opportunity but didn't take them?

You are going to blame China for having a government that does what a government is suppose to do help it's people?

Chinese goods have massively expanded in variety over the years, and that is due to liberalization. I remember a time when state owned factories would make everyday items, they don't exist anymore.

If it is in India's interest to be protectionist, then of course, I'm not a supporter of such initiatives as it stops progress. I mean even now I am very upset over the remaining protectionist policies of China and the slow pace of the new special economic zones.

Protectionism does not work..when you guarantee market share to companies even if they produce junk...! Bhutto socialism destroyed Pakistan industry as they got addicted to high profits by producing junk and now the mafia protest every-time there is privatization...

 

[-xXx-]

The only argument you have is China cheats. That is your opinion, I say that because the end result is very different. China didn't invent subsidies and there are very strict rules regarding subsidies, I'm not saying there isn't, but if China's massive success is so tied to subsides, we wouldn't have succeeded.

Unless you are of the opinion everyone is stupid except us and we are taking advantage of everyone.

@Genesis You are looking at thing white or black. Lets discuss somewhere in between, the grey side.

Two points -

• We can only open when we believe our local industry is ready to compete and can survive.
• We can only open that much as we believe our local industry can handle.

Pakistan local industry or even Indian can not compete with chinese which has sheer advantage of scale. We have to build our capabilities from within. I am not even talking about quality issues here.

I sincerely hope that this is media news only, making a fighter rejected in MRCA is nothing short of foolishness that too after 16 yrs mrca toiling hard. americans are not going to make latest high tech jet in India easily but then why this at its end of life fighter which all the major air forces of world are retiring unlike india which is trying to modernize it by some tweeks of additional features

Kahan bhatak rahe ho janab, zara thread subject bhi check karo.

 

[maximuswarrior]

these are all propaganda theories ... CPEC will be completed no matter what .

Only those will oppose CPEC who oppose progress and development in Pakistan. No sane person in their right mind could oppose direct investment. Even if the workforce is partly foreign or return of investment goes straight to the investor. It is always a win win.

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

I sincerely hope that this is media news only, making a fighter rejected in MRCA is nothing short of foolishness that too after 16 yrs mrca toiling hard. americans are not going to make latest high tech jet in India easily but then why this at its end of life fighter which all the major air forces of world are retiring unlike india which is trying to modernize it by some tweeks of additional features

 

[The Sandman]

I sincerely hope that this is media news only, making a fighter rejected in MRCA is nothing short of foolishness that too after 16 yrs mrca toiling hard. americans are not going to make latest high tech jet in India easily but then why this at its end of life fighter which all the major air forces of world are retiring unlike india which is trying to modernize it by some tweeks of additional features

Eh you're in a wrong thread