What's new

The Pakistan problem

A.Rahman

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
4,728
Reaction score
0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
The Pakistan problem

By H.D.S. Greenway | August 14, 2007

THE UNITED STATES has a real problem with Pakistan. But Pakistan has real problems of its own, and the solutions may not mesh with what Washington wants.

After having said he didn't spend much time thinking about Osama bin Laden, the latest National Intelligence Estimate has forced President Bush to face up to the fact that a reconstituted Al Qaeda in Pakistan is a major threat -- perhaps the major threat -- to the United States.

Clearly, President Pervez Musharraf's attempt to buy peace and loyalty on the northwest frontier has backfired. He had hoped to head off increasing support for Islamist extremists, but instead Al Qaeda has been the beneficiary. Frances Townsend, Bush's Homeland Security adviser, spoke the truth when she said; "It hasn't worked for Pakistan, and it hasn't worked for the United States."

The siege and storming of the Red Mosque has riled the faithful, and Musharraf's unlawful and unsuccessful attempt to unseat Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry has made the president of Pakistan look foolish.

But what to do? There have been hints of military action against Al Qaeda in Pakistan, some of them clandestine to avoid embarrassing Musharraf who has forbidden American troops on Pakistani soil. Presidential hopeful Barack Obama has advocated attacking Al Qaeda in Pakistan no matter what the Pakistanis think -- a formula for disaster. The idea of Navy Seals, CIA, or Special Forces operating in some of the most remote and desolate territory on earth without benefit of local knowledge or Pakistani help would be counterproductive in the extreme.

Moreover, the American way of war depends on massive firepower from the air, not the determined, loss-inflicting, village-to-village way that is necessary in irregular warfare. The number of civilian deaths being inflicted in neighboring Afghanistan by American and NATO forces has caused President Hamid Karzai to protest time and time again -- the reason being that these civilian deaths are turning the local population against the government. When the tipping point arrives, all our efforts in Afghanistan are doomed. To repeat this in Pakistan would be a strategic blunder on the scale of Iraq.

A result of American armed intervention in Pakistan could be the dissolution of Pakistan itself. The border lands with Afghanistan, Balochistan, and the Northwest Frontier Province -- never mind the tribal territories -- are a major problem for Pakistan. Costly and nation-threatening revolts have plagued the government since Pakistan was formed.

The British had constant problems in the border regions during their tenure, with armed rebellions in Waziristan as late as the 1930s. The strange arrangement of the tribal territories, which are not completely under the government's control, are a legacy of those times when the British tried to buy peace on the frontier.

I can remember 20 years ago taking a steam train, the Landi Kotal local, up to the Khyber pass. I knew I was in the tribal territories when I saw tribesmen getting on board without paying for a ticket as I had done back in Peshawar. When I asked why, they slapped their rifles and said "this is our ticket."

The frontier territories have always been deeply religious. When Louis Mountbatten, the last viceroy of British India, went up to Peshawar in order to explain the partition of India just before independence, he faced 100,000 angry tribesmen and wasn't able to address the crowd. Only his green army uniform saved the day. The tribesmen thought he was wearing the color of Islam to honor them.

I believe Musharraf is sincere when he says he wants to rid the country of Islamic extremists. But he has to tread carefully, as the tribal nationalism of the frontier is interwoven with Islamism, much of it extreme. His previous attempts at military intervention have been even less successful than his try for a truce. The political ramifications of a full scale revolt on the frontier would be, for Pakistan, far worse than Al Qaeda's presence. Such an event would be worse for America too.

Unfortunately not everybody in Pakistan, including some in the intelligence services, think it a bad thing to have a Taliban card to play just in case Afghanistan turns against Pakistan at some future date. Pakistan has not forgotten that once the Soviets called it quits and withdrew beyond the river Oxus, America lost interest and just walked away, leaving the region in chaos.

The real tragedy is that the United States bungled the job when Osama and Al Qaeda were still in Afghanistan.
 
.
Sinking together?

President Musharraf is isolated and unpopular, but the notion that Bhutto can deal with the Taliban more effectively is risible.


August 30, 2007 4:33 PM | Printable version

For a politician whose sycophantic colleagues boast that she is closer to the pulse of the people than any of her rivals, Benazir Bhutto's decision to do a deal with Pakistan's uniformed president indicates the exact opposite. She is sadly out of touch. General Musharraf is now deeply unpopular here. It is not often that one can actually observe power draining away from a political leader. And the lifeline being thrown to him in the shape of an over-blown Benazir might sink together with him.

An indication that she was not completely unaware of this came a few days ago when she declared that her decision was "approved" by the "international community" always a code-word for Washington) and the Pakistan army (well, yes). In short, Pakistani public opinion was irrelevant.

The mood among sections of the street - I am currently in Lahore - is summed up in a cruel taunt: "People's Party de ballay, ballay / ade ******, ade dallay" (Marvel at the People Party / half-whore and half-pimp). This is slightly unfair and could apply to all the Muslim Leagues as well. The fact is that people are disgusted with politics and see politicians as crooks out to make money and feed the greed of the networks they patronise and which double up as useful vote banks.

But it should be acknowledged that Benazir Bhutto's approach is not the result of a sudden illumination. There is a twisted continuity here. When the general seized power in 1999 and toppled the Sharif brothers (then Benazir's detested rivals), she welcomed the coup and nurtured hopes of a ministerial post. When no invitations were forthcoming, she would turn up at the desk of a junior in the South Asian section of the State Department, pleading for a job. Instead the military charged her and her husband with graft and corruption. The evidence was overwhelming. She decided to stay in exile.

In March this year, Musharraf's decision to sack Iftikhar Hussein Chaudhry, the turbulent chief justice of the Supreme Court, backfired unexpectedly and sensationally. Tens of thousands of lawyers protested and took to the streets, demanding his immediate reinstatement. Political and social activists of almost every political hue joined them and a country usually depicted abroad as a den of bearded extremists on the verge of seizing power was suddenly witnessing an amazing constitutional struggle that had nothing to do with religion. Even the cynics were moved to see lawyers insisting on a rigid separation of powers.

The use of force by Musharraf's supporters in Karachi who opened fire and killed peaceful demonstrators created a further backlash against the regime. The Supreme Court voted unanimously to re-instate their chief. The general was becoming increasingly isolated.

The politicians who surrounded him pleaded for a state of emergency or even a new declaration of martial law, but according to many sources here in Pakistan the joint chiefs said that the military was too over-committed on the western frontier to police the rest of the country, which was a nice way of saying "No". With this route blocked, Washington now insisted on a deal with Ms Bhutto. The inner preoccupation to which she was a prey (power at any cost and the withdrawal of corruption charges) prevented her, I think, from having complete control of herself.

The Bush administration, which has brokered this deal, is basically ignorant of Pakistani politics. To isolate the Sharif brothers instead of including them in the "secular package" will drive them in the other direction. Nawaz Sharif is posing as a man of principle, forgetting how under his watch Muslim League thugs raided the Supreme Court and journalists were harassed and locked up. Memories are always short here and the fact the Sharif refused to negotiate with Musharraf has made him more popular in the country.

The notion that Bhutto can succeed in dealing with the Taliban more effectively than the general is risible, as Kamran Nazeer has already pointed out on Cif. Every time innocents are killed in bombing raids in Afghanistan or Pakistan increases support for the Taliban increases. Militants now control or dominate Tank, parts of Swat, North and South Waziristan, Dir, and Kohat inside Pakistan. The solution is political, not military. Killing more people will not help and there have been cases of soldiers refusing to fire on fellow-Muslims and junior officers taking early retirement after a tour of the duty on the Pak-Afghan border.

Pakistan being Pakistan, many observers are convinced that even if the deal is consummated it will be of short duration.

Comment is free: Sinking together?

A viewpoint of concern!
 
. .
why is it a concerning viewpoint for you, who da hell are you?

Why is it i m seeing all of you jumping into Pakistan's Problem?

ScrewBhindia,

It is important to analyze a situation from all aspects. The Indian members on this forum bring in a different perspective to issues, and indeed allow us to explore those issues beyond boundaries that we may subconsciously set up. We in turn can do the same vis a vis issues that concern India. The more important thing is to ensure that the discourse occurs in a civil manner. Feel free to refute any factual inaccuracies you see in their posts, or provide an alternate analysis.:enjoy:
 
.
ScrewBhindia,

It is important to analyze a situation from all aspects. The Indian members on this forum bring in a different perspective to issues, and indeed allow us to explore those issues beyond boundaries that we may subconsciously set up. We in turn can do the same vis a vis issues that concern India. The more important thing is to ensure that the discourse occurs in a civil manner. Feel free to refute any factual inaccuracies you see in their posts, or provide an alternate analysis.:enjoy:
There is nothing i will say nothing but always a hidden agenda that goes on. The way i m seeing the forum is you guys trying to be friend but you will gain nothing from them.

And about analysis the way you guys are portraying things its like i am living in 1971 lol.
 
.
There is nothing i will say nothing but always a hidden agenda that goes on. The way i m seeing the forum is you guys trying to be friend but you will gain nothing from them.

And about analysis the way you guys are portraying things its like i am living in 1971 lol.

Once again, the idea is to factually and/or logically refute any claims they bring up that one might disagree with. After all, if we Pakistanis are correct, and they are not, then we should be able to do the above.

You claim that the atmosphere is negative and pessimistic to the extent of portraying a "1971 like situation". I assure you that most of the Pakistani members here do not believe that. Some Indians may bring out issues or analysis that suggest despair, but you will always find someone on hand to counter the claim, if incorrect. Plus there is nothing wrong with discussing the worst case scenario, however unlikely, is there? Even if only to show why such a scenario would never occur.
 
.
Agnostic,

Thanks for understanding our new member.

Screw,

Your currently new here, and you will adjust here as the time passes. You will certainly enjoy being here, there is something more to discussion other than personal name callings.

Welcome aboard.
 
.
screwbhindia, here is a neat quote from Sun Tzu (The art of War fame):

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." ;)
 
.
why is it a concerning viewpoint for you, who da hell are you?

Why is it i m seeing all of you jumping into Pakistan's Problem?

Bro i agree with what you are saying....but i think you need to change your name,how would you like it if a indian member called himself screwpakistan.
 
.
ScrewBhindia,

It is important to analyze a situation from all aspects. The Indian members on this forum bring in a different perspective to issues, and indeed allow us to explore those issues beyond boundaries that we may subconsciously set up. We in turn can do the same vis a vis issues that concern India. The more important thing is to ensure that the discourse occurs in a civil manner. Feel free to refute any factual inaccuracies you see in their posts, or provide an alternate analysis.:enjoy:

Very eloquent :tup:
 
.
why is it a concerning viewpoint for you, who da hell are you?

Why is it i m seeing all of you jumping into Pakistan's Problem?

Because any problem in the neighbourhood or any instability automatically affects the neighbour.

Next you will tell me that the current crisis in Pakistan should not worry India. It does. Because the next PM may not have the same agenda as Gen Musharraf to try and solve the dispute as much as he can!

With due respect, if the next PM displays the same paranoia as what you are displaying to an innocuous sentence and if he too sees shadows where none exist, then what little good that has happened between India and Pakistan in the recent past will be brought to nought!
 
.
Next you will tell me that the current crisis in Pakistan should not worry India. It does. Because the next PM may not have the same agenda as Gen Musharraf to try and solve the dispute as much as he can!

Salim what difference does it make if the new guy replacing Musharraf has a different agenda? What did India do with Musharraf's agenda? He has been the most flexible with India on the Kashmir issue in the entirety of Pakistan's history and eveen then got no reciprocity from your government. This is something that even Sheikh Abdullah admitted to as he said that our (Indian) government sat on the opportunity of a lifetime to resolve the Kashmir issue and make peace with Pakistan for ever. The next guy in will only be more hardline on Kashmir as the Pakistani public does not want any more soft pedalling...most Pakistanis see ourseleves as having given in way too much to India on the Kashmir issue already...its a pity that the two sides could not arrive at a amicable solution.
 
.
why is it a concerning viewpoint for you, who da hell are you?

Why is it i m seeing all of you jumping into Pakistan's Problem?

I think the same thing annoys me. My problem is that the Indians that come here are fanatics and opportunists and this is like a duck-hunt for them. Truth is all they are here for is to pick on Pakistan and highlight its problems and issues rather than to spread love and peace and support the peace process.

ScrewBhindia,

It is important to analyze a situation from all aspects. The Indian members on this forum bring in a different perspective to issues, and indeed allow us to explore those issues beyond boundaries that we may subconsciously set up. We in turn can do the same vis a vis issues that concern India. The more important thing is to ensure that the discourse occurs in a civil manner. Feel free to refute any factual inaccuracies you see in their posts, or provide an alternate analysis.:enjoy:

My problem is not that we have Indians on this site, but it is their attitude... they want us Pakistanis to admit everything that we did wrong while they are unwilling to say a single word about what they did wrong and are still doing wrong! And I know the pleasure they get when we say that we were wrong or when they see us fighting amongst ourselves and getting angry at their senseless comments on a problem in Pakistan and how India is more capable than Pakistan.

I have been to India and I know the hatred they have for Pakistan... half my family is there that tells me about what other Indians think of Pakistanis. This is what my cousin told me he had heard after I was unwilling to say that I was an Indian while in India:

1) This is a debate of college students of what they would do if they saw a pakistani in India:
a>The day i see a pakistani here i will kill him with my own hands!
b> I will slay him with my grand-fathers sword...
c> I will... all women in his household and will leave his father begging (because of the language they used here and how they graphically spoke about what they would do to the women it is just better to say they said "they will destroy his family")

2) We will throw pakistanis back to the gutters from where they belong.

3) Pakistani males are ummm... male-oriented and deserved to be drowned...

4) Pakistani women were born to get... (well i can't mention this one cauz i will be kicked out for violating the privacy policy) they also mentioned pakistani women bleeding and screaming.

Now I am almost 100% sure that any Pakistani who loves his country will definately be enraged... this is the sort of stuff these people discuss when they aren't on our site because they are exactly the same type of people who make these comments. My problem is NOT with Indians at all! It is with their purpose of degrading and making fun of Pakistan which annoys me. They do not admit any of their mistakes and the wrong they have done and wish only to have an ever-long debate on Pakistan and its problems and how India is better than Pakistan! e.g. They say we did wrong with Bangladesh but they deny they are doing the same with Kashmir and minorities in India. Furthermore they also blame their misfortunes and problems straight onto us. e.g. the Hyderabad blasts and the Samjhauta Express bakwas they presented us with.

Because any problem in the neighbourhood or any instability automatically affects the neighbour.

Next you will tell me that the current crisis in Pakistan should not worry India. It does. Because the next PM may not have the same agenda as Gen Musharraf to try and solve the dispute as much as he can!

With due respect, if the next PM displays the same paranoia as what you are displaying to an innocuous sentence and if he too sees shadows where none exist, then what little good that has happened between India and Pakistan in the recent past will be brought to nought!

Oh, comeon the king of fanatics and hypocrates is trying to tell me that our problem is his problem too? Comeon I just saw some Indian guys laughing at the recent bombings in Pak and saying "Hamey inko maarney ki kya zurwat hai? Yeh loug toh apney aap ko hi maar rahey hain" in college a few days back... please don't deny the pleasure you guys get when talking about our problems and when someone dies in Pakistan.

Please find a better excuse than this pathetic one because it is making no difference to you if there are militants in Waziristan or if there is a protest against the KESC or Wapda because it simply does not affect you just as the maoist rebels or the farmers protesting for higher crop prices do not affect us!

Exept, ofcourse it does concern fanatics like you because you have to come here each and everyday just to make fun of the situation and the problems in Pakistan while denying that Indias purpose for joining the 1971 war was not clean or muslims in India are treated badly even though my whole family there is going through hell! Enjoy yourself till you can... when another Pakistan is created you can come back and moan because your attitudes have not changed since 1947.
 
.
Dimension,

I too see the Indian attitudes and what stinks of it usually is misplaced arrogance. As far as them thinking they are better than Pakistanis then I have a word or two for that but this is neither the place nor the occasion for that ;) Every single Pakistani is as or more proud than his Indian counterpart. These Indians can come to Pakistan and see how big our hearts are and what gracious hosts we are...although I cannot vouch for what you have stated about the comments of Indian students, I can guarantee that nobody in a Pakistani school would ever say stuff like this cause they could care less.

:pakistan: Overall Pakistan has come a long way...its not exactly in its element yet, but inshallah it will be in the near future as this country did not need to survive if there was not a greater purpose behind it....us being in the eye of the storm can be a good thing as well....its shaping us and I know its for the better...its hard for many to understand but Iqbal's dream will come true in Pakistan regardless of the BS that people say about Pakistan.

Today an article appeared in the WSJ, talks about the resilience of Pakistani enterpreuners and economy in such politically charged climate...it simply goes to show the resiliency of Pakistan and Pakistanis...it is this resiliency and above all the hope in Allah SWT that we carry on despite the crap people have to say about Pakistan and Pakistanis. :pakistan:
 
.
Salim what difference does it make if the new guy replacing Musharraf has a different agenda? What did India do with Musharraf's agenda? He has been the most flexible with India on the Kashmir issue in the entirety of Pakistan's history and eveen then got no reciprocity from your government. This is something that even Sheikh Abdullah admitted to as he said that our (Indian) government sat on the opportunity of a lifetime to resolve the Kashmir issue and make peace with Pakistan for ever. The next guy in will only be more hardline on Kashmir as the Pakistani public does not want any more soft pedalling...most Pakistanis see ourseleves as having given in way too much to India on the Kashmir issue already...its a pity that the two sides could not arrive at a amicable solution.

If only you understood the pathbreaking effort made!

In India, we have people like you too.

Have your cake and eat it too!

I appreciate the bravery shown by people of your ilk to now lambast Musharraf since he is in a bit of a spot.

Why did you not take to the street when Nawaz Sharif was exiled or BB was charged with corruption?

That would have indicated your and your ilk's courage of conviction and courage to face the Musharraf.

Fickle as the wind!

I am sure you would prefer that Mullah of the Red Mosque as your leader and ruin whatever the present govt has given to you!
 
.
Back
Top Bottom