The number zero was invented in Ancient Pakistan

[karnivore]

IVC is being claimed on the basis of Pakistanis being native to Indus Valley and the civilisation is part of the Pakistani identity and history.
Very little is known about IVC culture, language or religion, but its ignorant to claim that Buddhism and Hinduism didnt change the culture of Indus Valley people in the same way Islam changed their culture around 8th century AD.

As for Tipu Sultan, nobody claimed he was a Pakistani ancestor.

There is more to Pakistani identity than just 'geographical location'. If you have to make such mindless claims please also explain how Pakistanis are not native to the Indus Valley.

No, I did not claim, that "Pakistanis are not native to the Indus Valley". But the only argument in favour of Pakistanis, being exclusive descendants of IVC, seems to be the fact, that the ruins of IVC are mostly in Pakistan. The question is not if Pakistanis are direct descendants of IVC, the question is if they are the ONLY descendants.

It would appear, that cultural acculturation and hereditary lineage have a magical tendency of stopping abruptly at the boarder of a non-existing political boundary between countries.

 

[roadrunner]

The concept of the "Shunya" from which zero comes from is credited to Panini, the Ancient Pakistani grammarian, and the Mahayana texts of Ancient Pakistan. Panini of course lived in 400 BC

To this the early Mahayanists added the post-Paranirvana development of shunya, that can be traced in Panini’s fourth-century BCE use of it, as an emptiness that is pregnant due to its situation in relation to another concept, like the potential of a term to have a suffix, even when it doesn’t have one. Which was followed slightly-later, by the mathematicians adoption of this same shunya as the zero, place holder, in their creation of the decimal system.
Lecture 8

We have now firmly established where the "Shunya" arose, and indeed that the zero was used as a placeholder by Panini, the Ancient Pakistani.

Onto the use of the number zero itself - perhaps a little more controversial, but it would seem Pingala, the Ancient Pakistani mathematician, clearly recorded it in his studies on Maatraa meru . His work is surmized as

"Sequence of numbers starting from zero, one and then every number is a sum of the previous two numbers", clear usage of the number zero.

However, Brahmagupta, the Ancient Pakistani mathematician also made significant progress in describing the usage of the "shunya", an Ancient Pakistani concept.

Other works of Pingala, the Ancient Pakistani mathematician,

Study of Prosody*

Mathematical concepts for describing prosody

First known description of a binary numeral system

Basic idea of the Fibonacci Number** (Maatrameru)


*Prosody is the study of rhythm, intonation, stress and related attributes in speech

**Sequence of numbers starting from zero, one and then every number is a sum of the previous two numbers
Pingala Scientists of India


These neutral articles clearly reinforce the assertions of the eminent mathematician who wrote the MSNEncarta article from a neutral viewpoint..

"So you can see that when no beads have been moved, you need a symbol to represent “0". This symbol is very important, in order to show that this is the number 15730 and not the much smaller number 1573. It was probably in using an abacus that the Hindus of the Indus valley in today’s Pakistan first invented zero.
From Zero to Hero - MSN Encarta

 

[roadrunner]

We should of course state clearly that both Panini and Pingala were mathematicians from the land area known today as Pakistan, not India.

Indeed, I have provided solid (academic) evidence that Brahmagupta was from Multan, "today's Pakistan", also.

 

[roadrunner]

Some more clarification on Brahmagupta:

Brahmagupta, whose father was Jisnugupta, wrote important works on mathematics and astronomy. In particular he wrote Brahmasphutasiddhanta (The Opening of the Universe), in 628. The work was written in 25 chapters and Brahmagupta tells us in the text that he wrote it at Bhillamala which today is the city of Bhinmal. This was the capital of the lands ruled by the Gurjara dynasty.

Brahmagupta became the head of the astronomical observatory at Ujjain which was the foremost mathematical centre of ancient India at this time. Outstanding mathematicians such as Varahamihira had worked there and built up a strong school of mathematical astronomy.

Brahmagupta biography

This is a fine reference. I'll credit it since it's from a neutral academic institution, as my French reference is (Strasbourg university).

However, how do they contradict each other?

My academic reference says Brahmagupta was born in Multan, Pakistan (clearly the Strasbourg University researchers have found a solid reference to this), your St Andrew's University reference only says where he worked for a period of time (even my Strasbourg University reference says that Brahmagupta worked for a period of time under the Gurjarras).

Let's take the example of Abdus Salam. An atomic physics genius, born in Pakistan achieved much of his work in the US. Everyone I think would say that Abdus Salam's achievements are part of the history of the Pakistani people, because he was a citizen of Pakistan. Much like Brahmagupta was born and raised in Multan, today's Pakistan, but only worked on the border area for a period of time. So it becomes a Multani that is credited for the Brahmaputra, and Multan as we all know is in today's Pakistan.

It is almost conclusive that Brahmagupta was born in Ancient Pakistan, aside from Indian scholarly thinking.

A Wisconsin University reference to Brahmagupta of Multan - published also
"“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting “mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise Brahmasphutasiddantha."
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

 

[Flintlock]

Haha, if you want to discuss the historical development of the concept of the zero, they you'll need to go even further into ancient Egypt, Greece and Babylon.

We however are discussing the invention of the modern zero as a numerical digit in the decimal system. That was done by Brahmagupta.

Now, regarding his birth, your vailant assertions mean next to nothing. There are around 3 or 4 sources on the internet which say he was born in Multan, and only one of them is an article dedicated to the biography of Brahmagupta. The rest simply mention his name in passing.

The rest 99% of sources (university sites, encyclopaedias, books on google books etc) all describe him as having been born in one of the two locations (Ujjain/Bhinmal). However, if you want to cling on to your precious french source, like the "Kalava", then please do so. Nobody can stop you from doing that.

However, here is my case:

Alberuni, the Persian writer, who translated his work into Persian and trasmitted it to the Muslim world, writes in his book:

"Brahmagupta, son of Jishnu, from the town of Bhillamala between Multan and Anhilwara..."

The name of the book is Alberuni's India. (Ta'rikh al-Hind)

Here is the source: Alberuni's India: An Account of the ... - Google Book Search

Oh and his own work clearly states that he wrote it at Bhillamala.

So, I guess, unless you can come up with an original, historical source which clearly states that his place of birth is NOT Bhillamala, but Multan itself, this debate is over.

This would also explain why a few sources prefer to name Multan instead of Bhillamala, because Multan is the bigger, and hence more recognizable town.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok - enough with the canard of 'Pakistan was established for Muslims and therefore has no claim to its non-Muslim history.

Faith can change, however, the history of people does not. Our ancestors remain the same, they don't change becasue down the line someone converted to Islam.

Stick to the topic please.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No, I did not claim, that "Pakistanis are not native to the Indus Valley". But the only argument in favour of Pakistanis, being exclusive descendants of IVC, seems to be the fact, that the ruins of IVC are mostly in Pakistan. The question is not if Pakistanis are direct descendants of IVC, the question is if they are the ONLY descendants.

It would appear, that cultural acculturation and hereditary lineage have a magical tendency of stopping abruptly at the boarder of a non-existing political boundary between countries.

Oh indeed, and per the human theory of migration, since we are all descended from a tribe in Africa anyway, why on earth should any nation or people delineate history based on their contemporary identity?

 

[srijeesh]

zero was invented in bharata khand. which has been divided into india, afghanistan, pakistan, nepal and BD in modern times.

india is considered commonly as the representative of the old bharat and its culture since it still thrives in india only unlike other countries of this region.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

zero was invented in bharata khand. which has been divided into india, afghanistan, pakistan, nepal and BD in modern times.

india is considered commonly as the representative of the old bharat and its culture since it still thrives in india only unlike other countries of this region.

Wow - when do we start including the rest of Asia and Europe in this ever expanding mythical Bharata Khand?

Do Hindutva apologists have nothing better to do than dream up ever larger swathes of the world being part of this mythical entity?

 

[srijeesh]

Wow - when do we start including the rest of Asia and Europe in this ever expanding mythical Bharata Khand?

Do Hindutva apologists have nothing better to do than dream up ever larger swathes of the world being part of this mythical entity?

bharata khand is modern indian sub-continent. when did I include europe? or were you just exaggerating?

jambu dweep means asia, and bharata khand means sub-continent. that is how it is referred to in the ancient time whose heritage you are trying to claim.
it wasnt mythical either, it is historical.
it is very clear from your post that you have no sympathy with the views of those ancients except some of their INVENTIONS.
hindutva huh!

 

[Flintlock]

Wrap it up guys, the debate is over.

Al Beruni himself confirms that Brahmagupta was born in Bhinmal. What more do we need?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

bharata khand is modern indian sub-continent. when did I include europe? or were you just exaggerating?

jambu dweep means asia, and bharata khand means sub-continent. that is how it is referred to in the ancient time whose heritage you are trying to claim.
it wasnt mythical either, it is historical.
it is very clear from your post that you have no sympathy with the views of those ancients except some of their INVENTIONS.
hindutva huh!

Did the IVC people call themselves Bharata Khand? If not, then its not the view of those ancients is it.

A bit too close to Akhand Bharat and all of its expansionist connotations for me, but any way, this is off topic as well.

 

[roadrunner]

Al Beruni lived in the 10th century, Brahmagupta lived in the 6th century. So again this is not the ultimate reference. It's one reference however, and it does not say where he was born - we've established this was in Multan, he only worked in Bhillamala, which we know may have been somewhere between Multan and another place. It's not important, he was born and raised in Multan.

Now, the references by Strasbourg University and Wisconsin University are clear in that he was born in Multan.

However Brahmagupta was not the discoverer of the number zero - that would have to go to the Mahayanists and Panini/Pingula, who were residents of the Indus Valley, Ancient Pakistan, not India.

Brahmagupta, the Ancient Pakistani from Multan (as per academic references), did not discover the number zero, he just formulated some rules that extended the work of Pingala, the Ancient Pakistani mathematician, regarding the number zero.

This is then summed up in our highly credible MSNEncarta reference

"So you can see that when no beads have been moved, you need a symbol to represent “0". This symbol is very important, in order to show that this is the number 15730 and not the much smaller number 1573. It was probably in using an abacus that the Hindus of the Indus valley in today’s Pakistan first invented zero.
From Zero to Hero - MSN Encarta

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Wrap it up guys, the debate is over.

Al Beruni himself confirms that Brahmagupta was born in Bhinmal. What more do we need?

Depends upon if the debate shoudl be limited to "discussing the invention of the modern zero as a numerical digit in the decimal system. "

 

[srijeesh]

Did the IVC people call themselves Bharata Khand? If not, then its not the view of those ancients is it.

A bit too close to Akhand Bharat and all of its expansionist connotations for me, but any way, this is off topic as well.

slight correction bharat khand is just a geographical name while akhand bharat is an ideology/dream. just because you confuse the two doesnt mean it is.

as far as, I know the IVC ppl's lang is not yet deciphered. but the symbols etc were close to the vedic religion(modern hindu religion), and in vedic religion, this region is referred as bharata khand.

it is off-topic but just to set the record straight.