The number zero was invented in Ancient Pakistan

[Rig Vedic]

I completely agree with you. Pakistan's historical claim on Brahmagupta is as valid and good as Italy's claim on Galileo.

It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word, but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders, and it is a dream that the Hindus and Muslims can ever evolve a common nationality, and this misconception of one Indian nation has troubles and will lead India to destruction if we fail to revise our notions in time. The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, litterateurs. They neither intermarry nor interdine together and, indeed, they belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspect on life and of life are different. It is quite clear that Hindus and Mussalmans derive their inspiration from different sources of history. They have different epics, different heroes, and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other and, likewise, their victories and defeats overlap. To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built for the government of such a state.


Muhammad Ali Jinnah's All India Muslim League Presidential Address delivered at Lahore, on March 22–23, 1940

Two-Nation Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why harp on achievements of a Kaffir like Brahmagupta, who, as per the father of your nation Muhammad A. Jinnah, belonged to a different civilization, based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.

In any case, Brahmagupta was born in present-day Rajasthan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmagupta)

 

[roach]

Un.fu*****.believable that a thread on such a ridiculous topic can go on for 12 pages!!!!!!

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Un.fu*****.believable that a thread on such a ridiculous topic can go on for 12 pages!!!!!!

Now I'm indeed convinced that many (not all) Pakistanis suffer from an identity crisis.

 

[SQ8]

Now I'm indeed convinced that many (not all) Pakistanis suffer from an identity crisis.

I am convinced that Most Indians need to read a lot more..or improve comprehension and analytical skills..
I see now why 3 idiots was soo relevant in India.
If anything...its the Indian Muslim that is looking for an identity
Even outpacing everybody in singing Vande mataram..just to fit in.
The genius who decided to bring Jinnah's speech into this topic should first tell his Muslim compatriots to stop trying to be more Indian then him and stick to the indian identity..whatever that is.. if the issue was kaffir or achoot related.

So please do not drag identity crisis into a historical debate.
the number zero is an invention of the sub continent..
Kaffir or whatever...brahmagupta, Ashoka are as much a part of the history of Pakistan.. as they are of India..
The two nations idea began with the advent of islam...and the gene pool, and teachings it brought with it.. It is Hinduism and Islam that are irreconcilable.. not mathematical concepts.

 

[The Clarifier]

I don't see the fuss :S

Back then, Pakistan was India.

Now we are different, of course, but we were one country then.

It is like saying Indian muslims aren't muslim because they are Indian

 

[Veeru]

I am convinced that Most Indians need to read a lot more..or improve comprehension and analytical skills..
I see now why 3 idiots was soo relevant in India.
If anything...its the Indian Muslim that is looking for an identity
Even outpacing everybody in singing Vande mataram..just to fit in.
The genius who decided to bring Jinnah's speech into this topic should first tell his Muslim compatriots to stop trying to be more Indian then him and stick to the indian identity..whatever that is.. if the issue was kaffir or achoot related.

So please do not drag identity crisis into a historical debate.
the number zero is an invention of the sub continent..
Kaffir or whatever...brahmagupta, Ashoka are as much a part of the history of Pakistan.. as they are of India..
The two nations idea began with the advent of islam...and the gene pool, and teachings it brought with it.. It is Hinduism and Islam that are irreconcilable.. not mathematical concepts.

1.) Pakistan was created on the hate towards Hindus and others.

2.) Pakistani feel good about invaders of pakistan like gaznavi or gauri.

But they try to steal every good thing done by Indians claiming that they hold the area presently as pakistan so even history belongs to them but its not true at all.

The discovery and achievements of ancient India's part (presently in pakistan) are not your's as you are different people in race, thinking and everything.

For example: A Indian have purchased and taken over East India Company now we can't say that Britishers have not ruled India for 200 years because East India Company is presently a Indian company so we have ruled our self till 1857.

The rule of East India company over India till 1857 should be considered as Indian rule over India and not a foreign rule.

Not only that India have ruled dozen of countries because the countries once ruled by East India Company became Indian ruled countries because we are now the owner of East India company.

 

[roach]

Now I'm indeed convinced that many (not all) Pakistanis suffer from an identity crisis.

Don't blame them, really. To be honest, it would be a difficult task to be a Pakistani Historian and still be objective about events.

 

[Veeru]

Singapore and Hong Kong were established by The East India Company as presently a Indian owned East India company we can claim that India have established Singapore and Hong Kong if we apply the logic of pakistanis.

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Don't blame them, really. To be honest, it would be a difficult task to be a Pakistani Historian and still be objective about events.

Well, that is true for Indian historians as well as for British historians or historians of any country.

The problem is that Pakistanis like to decouple their history from India. Words like 'ancient Pakistan' are only pointers to that deeply ingrained identity crisis that seeks to do away with anything Indian. Pakistan was not founded on this mentality though. Jinnah always wanted to have cordial relations with India after independence. Sadly, after Jinnah's demise, Pakistani rulers defined that to be a Pakistani, one has to be anti-India. Even today you can see how quickly many people in Pakistani media or politics are labeled as 'Indian agents' if they voice one sentence of disagreement with Pakistani policies.

It is this unwillingness on the part of Pakistanis to accept the name of India in its history that is leading to this identity crisis.

 

[The Clarifier]

1.) Pakistan was created on the hate towards Hindus and others.

2.) Pakistani feel good about invaders of pakistan like gaznavi or gauri.

What an idiot.

 

[Veeru]

What an idiot.

I have nit asked about ur quality you can't be Hippocrate.

On one side you jump up and down and kept your missiles named after invaders of pakistan like gauri, abdali and gaznavi.

At the same time try to steal the credit for something that you have not done.

 

[UnitedPak]

The discovery and achievements of ancient India's part (presently in pakistan) are not your's as you are different people in race, thinking and everything.

For example: A Indian have purchased and taken over East India Company now we can't say that Britishers have not ruled India for 200 years because East India Company is presently a Indian company so we have ruled our self till 1857.

The rule of East India company over India till 1857 should be considered as Indian rule over India and not a foreign rule.

Not only that India have ruled dozen of countries because the countries once ruled by East India Company became Indian ruled countries because we are now the owner of East India company.

From what I have gathered most Indian members dont agree with your views. The fact that Pakistanis have always lived in the Indus Valley is barely ever questioned. But I doubt any of them would counter you.

Most Pakistanis have always belonged to the Indus Valley, while most modern Indians do not originate from the Indus valley. Hence the history belongs to the people of Pakistan. I think we have already established that religion and ideologies mean squat in this context. Ancestry doesn't change because of it.

Your East India example doesnt apply because modern Indians did not originate from the Indus Valley. In fact your example is what we have been saying all along. You use the term India to lay claim on ancestries, ideologies, cultures and languages which dont belong to your people.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The genius who decided to bring Jinnah's speech into this topic should first tell his Muslim compatriots to stop trying to be more Indian then him and stick to the indian identity..whatever that is.. if the issue was kaffir or achoot related.

Actually Jinnah's speech is not relevant to Indian Muslims. It is relevant to those who regard Jinnah as their leader.

So please do not drag identity crisis into a historical debate.
the number zero is an invention of the sub continent..
Kaffir or whatever...brahmagupta, Ashoka are as much a part of the history of Pakistan.. as they are of India..
The two nations idea began with the advent of islam...and the gene pool, and teachings it brought with it.. It is Hinduism and Islam that are irreconcilable.. not mathematical concepts.

That is something you should have told A1Kaid. One notes that you were not disturbed by his post -

This is why the term "Ancient Pakistan" must be adopted by the historic and academic community because of Hindustans usury of the "Indian" name it's important to distinguish real ancient Indian history which happened in modern day Pakistan. Otherwise Indians will continue to leech of the achievements of the IVC as their own very pathetic I might add.

So I merely pointed out to him that he is trying claim credit for concepts that came from somebody belonging to a "different and conflicting civilization", as per his leader Jinnah.

Anyway, I actually support Pakistanis becoming more cognizant of their pre-Islamic roots. However, problems arise when they do mental acrobatics to construct an identity divorced from the larger Indic identity.

 

[The Clarifier]

I have nit asked about ur quality you can't be Hippocrate.

On one side you jump up and down and kept your missiles named after invaders of pakistan like gauri, abdali and gaznavi.

They are invaders in your eyes. Don't force your perception on us.

At the same time try to steal the credit for something that you have not done.

Nobody is. If the number zero was invented by greater India then so be it. We Pakistanis have had our achievements, and as Muslims, we have had many remarkable discoveries and inventions.

Cheers

 

[Veeru]

From what I have gathered most Indian members dont agree with your views. The fact that Pakistanis have always lived in the Indus Valley is barely ever questioned. But I doubt any of them would counter you.

Most Pakistanis have always belonged to the Indus Valley, while most modern Indians do not originate from the Indus valley. Hence the history belongs to the people of Pakistan. I think we have already established that religion and ideologies mean squat in this context. Ancestry doesn't change because of it.

Your East India example doesnt apply because modern Indians did not originate from the Indus Valley. In fact your example is what we have been saying all along. You use the term India to lay claim on ancestries, ideologies, cultures and languages which dont belong to your people.

You are twisting facts. Indians are separate gene pool but pakistanis are mixed breed as you yourself admit Persian/moughal/Afghan/Turks etc. etc.

1.) The point is that the Indus valley civilization belongs to the Bharat i.e. India both are our legal name according to constitution of India.

We can you any name legally Bharat or India both belongs to us.

2.) The Indus valley civilization was created by a separate gene pool the same of India/Bharat/Hindustan/Aryavarta/Hind.

3.) The Indus valley civilization was not a work of any Persian/Moughal/Afghan/Turks etc. etc. or any mix breed gene pool.

4.) The people who have created Indus valley civilization have died hundreds of years ago and those have survived are living in Gujarat & Rajasthan in India.

5.) The people of pakistan don't share the blood or genes of the creators of Indus valley civilization at all.