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The new Great Game

The New Great Game, keeps unvealing it's different facets as time passes.

Russia, the biggest threat to NATO is forging stronger alliances with China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and Pakistan. BRICS, SCO and one-to-one direct collaboration between many of the above countries is moving this group towards a formidable eastern block to counter NATO (the western world).

Two major developments during the last few weeks have further unveiled to everyone (who's interested), where things are headed, vis-a-vis, Turkey softening it's stance towards Russia with Erdogan visiting Russia and meeting Putin AND Iran allowing it's bases for Russian bombers to fly their bombing sorties.

Combine the above with current US debt and economic condition, Russia's and China's shift from US$ to precious metals (reserves), acceptance of Yuan as a world reserve currency recently, continuous rise in Gold prices during the last several months with several countries having started shifting of their gold reserves from US to their homeland, and a lot of other developments which indicate that the powers that be, are preparing for something big or that something big is on the horizon.

What do you guys think?
 
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Shipping incurs the least cost not roadways. You can make the case for china with distance though but the statement above is totally wrong !

Agree, but have you seen the difference in both routes? I mean the existing route through eastern side of China and the one being connected by CPEC?

Plus, the western provinces of China had to suffer from (i) long sea route and then (ii) thousands of kms of land route and that is why they are far behind in terms of GDP share they contribute. The real beneficiaries are western provinces of China, not the eastern ones. They are not dependent on CPEC.

Pakistan in turn will see rise in investment, and probably marketing some of its products that have no competition with China. These include textiles, some of the premier agricultural products and Balochistan becoming prosperous.

People who are saying that China will dump its cheap products should realize that not only Pakistani markets are already flooded with Chinese products but also the Indian, GCC, European and American markets are losing their own products' share to the Chinese products. It has nothing to do with CPEC.

What India is afraid of is that China will beat India in those areas where it has some advantage left. Cheaper costs to ship oil to western provinces will result in cheaper products and the prices will beat those of Indian products. For example, nowadays, I can see Indian fruits and vegetables etc in GCC superstores. China can't export due to short shelf lives of these products. After CPEC, certain Indian products will be replaced by Chinese. This is the real reason to worry for India. GCC is very big market for India and Indian farmers are prospering due to getting good prices for their products. They will be at a huge disadvantage after CPEC.
 
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Agree, but have you seen the difference in both routes? I mean the existing route through eastern side of China and the one being connected by CPEC?

Plus, the western provinces of China had to suffer from (i) long sea route and then (ii) thousands of kms of land route and that is why they are far behind in terms of GDP share they contribute. The real beneficiaries are western provinces of China, not the eastern ones. They are not dependent on CPEC.

Pakistan in turn will see rise in investment, and probably marketing some of its products that have no competition with China. These include textiles, some of the premier agricultural products and Balochistan becoming prosperous.

People who are saying that China will dump its cheap products should realize that not only Pakistani markets are already flooded with Chinese products but also the Indian, GCC, European and American markets are losing their own products' share to the Chinese products. It has nothing to do with CPEC.

What India is afraid of is that China will beat India in those areas where it has some advantage left. Cheaper costs to ship oil to western provinces will result in cheaper products and the prices will beat those of Indian products. For example, nowadays, I can see Indian fruits and vegetables etc in GCC superstores. China can't export due to short shelf lives of these products. After CPEC, certain Indian products will be replaced by Chinese. This is the real reason to worry for India. GCC is very big market for India and Indian farmers are prospering due to getting good prices for their products. They will be at a huge disadvantage after CPEC.

You have adequately answered lots of answers but just remember, china's inland population is just a fraction of it;s total population + they are not that well off. The size of the market pakistan can capture is not that big as you think !
 
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THE recent India-Iran-Afghanistan agreement to develop a trade route from Chabahar to Central Asia has been portrayed by Indian commentators as having changed the historical ‘Great Game’ for control of the connection between South and Central Asia through Afghanistan. It has been claimed that the agreement will end India’s ‘isolation’ from Central Asia and Pakistan’s ‘stranglehold’ over Afghanistan and create a ‘new security paradigm’ and a ‘geopolitical shift’.

But the Great Game has already changed. It is being played on a wider canvas with different players and rules. The power contest in Asia is now mainly between China and America, and, to a lesser extent, between America and Russia — with India, Pakistan, Iran and others in subsidiary roles. In this context, the strategic and economic implications of the tripartite agreement are likely to be limited.

Chabahar port has been on the drawing board for many years. Its main purpose was and will remain to expand Iran’s oil and other trade including with India.

Implementation of the trade route to Central Asia will remain challenging until peace can be restored in Afghanistan. With the collapse of the inter-Afghan negotiations, Afghanistan is likely to witness a further escalation of conflict and chaos. Transit to Central Asia via Iran, or Pakistan, is not viable at present.

Even once the route is operational, its economic significance will remain modest. India’s oil needs can be met by Iran (and Saudi Arabia). The Central Asians do not have pipelines to Chabahar; they do to China. New gas pipelines are being constructed to Europe. Their mineral resources are also flowing north, east and west; not south.

America is and will remain a major player in the new Asian Great Game.
With a population of only around 50 million, Central Asia will not become a huge market for manufactured goods. It will be twice as expensive for India to send goods to Central Asia through Chabahar than it would be overland across Pakistan. Indian goods are thus unlikely to be competitive against Chinese products shipped overland.

The strategic advantages for India are also questionable. Its influence in Afghanistan will be more dependent on Iran. Pakistan’s cooperation will continue to be essential to restoring peace in Afghanistan. Indian shipping lanes to Chabahar will be vulnerable to disruption. India’s limited influence in Central Asia will not dent that of Russia and China.

The new Great Game will increasingly revolve around China’s One Belt, One Road vision of land and sea connections between Asia, Europe and beyond. The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) is the first component of this ambitious project.

In comparison to the Chabahar route, the strategic and economic implications of CPEC are enormous. It will transform China from a one- to a two-ocean power; enable a part of its $4000 billion annual trade to circumvent the Malacca straits and other potential choke points in the Indian Ocean and shorten China’s supply lines to the Gulf, West Asia and Africa. For these reasons, if no other, China has a vital stake in Pakistan’s strategic stability and socioeconomic development. The Chinese commitment of $46bn for CPEC projects is but the first instalment of the massive capital which China is prepared to deploy in Pakistan.

Instead of being distracted by the moves of its adversaries, Pakistan must remain focused on the implementation of CPEC. This strategic enterprise should not be allowed to be stalled or delayed by external pressure or internal politics, inefficiency or corruption. It would be wise to create a separate and independent CPEC Authority which can be a ‘one-stop-shop’ entrusted with achieving CPEC’s enormous potential for Pakistan’s development. CPEC projects must go beyond infrastructure development to encompass manufacture, consumer goods, housing, health, textiles, finance and other sectors. To this end, the interaction between Pakistani and Chinese private- and public-sector companies must be actively expanded and intensified. Some of the externally imposed limitations on CPEC investment projects, such as restrictions on ‘sovereign guarantees’ for debt finance, need to be removed expeditiously.

CPEC faces threats from Pakistan and China’s adversaries. These will have to be met forcefully.

India’s opposition has been announced openly. New Delhi will continue to utilise Afghanistan as a base to destabilise Pakistan and undermine CPEC. The recent spate of attacks on Chinese workers in Pakistan is no accident. Pakistan will have to further enhance security for them and consider direct action to remove the Afghan-based threat from the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan.

Iran has assured that Chabahar is not designed to compete with Gwadar or CPEC. Pakistan and Iran can cooperate for mutual benefit: to end terrorism in Balochistan, expand trade, and construct the Iranian gas pipeline and a Gwadar-Chabahar economic corridor. However, Tehran often wants to run with the hare and hunt with the hound. Some recent events have sent disturbing signals which Pakistan cannot ignore.

To balance the growing Indo-Iranian relationship, Pakistan must maintain and reinforce its relationship with Saudi Arabia and Turkey. It would be in Pakistan’s interest to help in giving substance and form to the ‘Islamic coalition’ hastily formed by Riyadh. It should also convince the GCC states of the benefits of CPEC as a path to their closer connection with China.

America is and will remain a major player in the new Asian Great Game. To bolster its strategic contest with China, the US is moving towards a military alliance with India. The Obama administration is also cooperating tactically with Iran in the fight against the militant Islamic State group in Iraq and, less clearly, in Syria. It wants Iran to help in stabilising Afghanistan. But the US-Iran relationship could again become hostile if new sanctions are imposed by the US Congress or differences arise over Iraq, Syria, Hezbollah or Israel.

For Islamabad, the major threat now is possible hostile US action to destabilise Pakistan and disrupt CPEC. Wisely, China has invited US participation in CPEC. The US has declared, perhaps diplomatically, that it is not opposed to CPEC. But the signals from Washington, as it hosts India’s Modi, are ominous. The new Great Game is about to get tougher and rougher.

The writer is a former Pakistan ambassador to the UN.

Published in Dawn, June 12th, 2016http://www.dawn.com/news/1264242/the-new-great-game

India's Chahbahar port is an incentive to Pakistan to quit backing the Taliban and to stabilize Afghanistan. Of course to grant India overland trading privileges.

there is no real desire to trade with Central Asia. The Central Asia have some petroleum and natural gas. They are poor, authoritarian and corrupt regimes.

Agree, but have you seen the difference in both routes? I mean the existing route through eastern side of China and the one being connected by CPEC?

Plus, the western provinces of China had to suffer from (i) long sea route and then (ii) thousands of kms of land route and that is why they are far behind in terms of GDP share they contribute. The real beneficiaries are western provinces of China, not the eastern ones. They are not dependent on CPEC.

Pakistan in turn will see rise in investment, and probably marketing some of its products that have no competition with China. These include textiles, some of the premier agricultural products and Balochistan becoming prosperous.

People who are saying that China will dump its cheap products should realize that not only Pakistani markets are already flooded with Chinese products but also the Indian, GCC, European and American markets are losing their own products' share to the Chinese products. It has nothing to do with CPEC.

What India is afraid of is that China will beat India in those areas where it has some advantage left. Cheaper costs to ship oil to western provinces will result in cheaper products and the prices will beat those of Indian products. For example, nowadays, I can see Indian fruits and vegetables etc in GCC superstores. China can't export due to short shelf lives of these products. After CPEC, certain Indian products will be replaced by Chinese. This is the real reason to worry for India. GCC is very big market for India and Indian farmers are prospering due to getting good prices for their products. They will be at a huge disadvantage after CPEC.

The Western provinces of China have limited number of people. They have limited arable land and water. They have shorter seasons. The highway between Pakistan and China is not an all weather highway. the threat to India is overstated.

There is a reason most trade in the world is maritime. It is cheaper.
 
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The new great game is about challenging the existing world order. China Russia, Turkey and Iran have joined forces and will be creating a new Eurasian security alliance to protect their economic and security interests.

China has already offered military assistance to the Syrian government. Russia and Turkey are discussing closer military cooperation and have revived the Turkstream gas pipeline project. The U.S. backed coup attempt in Turkey has ensured the latter will align with Russia and Iran. Meanwhile China has begun investing in Russian projects and joint military exercises. The recent Ankara visit of the Iranian Foreign Minister is aimed at further boosting security and economic ties with Turkey.

Where does this leave Pakistan? We will be joining the alliance as well since the success of CPEC hinges on our partnerships with the neighbors and stability in the region. Iran and Pakistan are discussing anti terror and gas pipeline cooperation while Russia is upgrading defence relations and building a $2B gas pipeline in our backyard. Cooperation with the Turks is already quite extensive while the Chinese remain our perennial strategic ally.

As economic and security interests converge, the China-Russia-Turkey-Iran-Pakistan alliance is taking shape. This is a paradigm shift as two previously staunch American allies are moving out from its sphere of influence.
 
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The new great game is about challenging the existing world order. China Russia, Turkey and Iran have joined forces and will be creating a new Eurasian security alliance to protect their economic and security interests.

China has already offered military assistance to the Syrian government. Russia and Turkey are discussing closer military cooperation. The U.S. backed coup attempt in Turkey has ensured the latter will align with Russia and Iran.

Where does this leave Pakistan? We will be joining the alliance as well since the success of CPEC hinges on our partnerships with the neighbors and stability in the region. Iran and Pakistan are discussing anti terror and gas pipeline cooperation while Russia is upgrading defence relations and building a $2B gas pipeline in pakistan. Cooperation with the Turks is already quite extensive while the Chinese remain our perennial strategic ally.

As economic and security interests converge, the China-Russia-Turkey-Iran-Pakistan alliance is taking shape. This is a paradigm shift as two previously staunch American allies are moving out from its sphere of influence.

Russia will patch up with the West once Putin is gone. What is Putin fighting for ?? He cannot conquer Ukraine. It is big to swallow.

Iran/Russia and Turkey are on opposite sides of civil war in Syria
 
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Iran/Russia and Turkey are on opposite sides of civil war in Syria

Not anymore. Turkish military is already planning joint operations in Syria with the Russians. They are not too excited about the american effort to break up syria and create a Kurdish enclave on its border. Erdogan has already made a U turn on relations with Russia and Iran. At some point the Americans may be told to leave Incirlik air base as well.

Russia will patch up with the West once Putin is gone. What is Putin fighting for ?? He cannot conquer Ukraine.

Ukraine is next door to Russia. American efforts to induct it into NATO threatens Russian security. Imagine if Russia set up an alliance with Mexico and then built military bases across the border from Texas and Arizona. Uncle Sam would be stomping its foot and threatening all out war.
 
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That is the angle that I am looking at it, if CPEC is extended to Afghanistan, you can reach Central Asian markets pretty readily, so a win-win
CPEC is not intended for Afghanistan or central Asia
all of that comes as a bonus
but current Romances in our west surpass us to our east
so need to do readily do things
we will wait for our western neighbors to get back on their senses and realize the circumstances
and thus they will themselves formally request to be added into CPEC
no need for haste

What do you guys think?
well quoted but you see they are "Amer-I can"
I wont under estimate them and go head on with them specially if they are next door to you
Pakistan and India are likely to continue their romance with US
however pakistan is being sidelined
but our brass know that if you finger US they will Fist us
what we need to be is subtle and really really patient
no hastily moves
thats all i want to say

Agree, but have you seen the difference in both routes? I mean the existing route through eastern side of China and the one being connected by CPEC?

Plus, the western provinces of China had to suffer from (i) long sea route and then (ii) thousands of kms of land route and that is why they are far behind in terms of GDP share they contribute. The real beneficiaries are western provinces of China, not the eastern ones. They are not dependent on CPEC.

Pakistan in turn will see rise in investment, and probably marketing some of its products that have no competition with China. These include textiles, some of the premier agricultural products and Balochistan becoming prosperous.

People who are saying that China will dump its cheap products should realize that not only Pakistani markets are already flooded with Chinese products but also the Indian, GCC, European and American markets are losing their own products' share to the Chinese products. It has nothing to do with CPEC.

What India is afraid of is that China will beat India in those areas where it has some advantage left. Cheaper costs to ship oil to western provinces will result in cheaper products and the prices will beat those of Indian products. For example, nowadays, I can see Indian fruits and vegetables etc in GCC superstores. China can't export due to short shelf lives of these products. After CPEC, certain Indian products will be replaced by Chinese. This is the real reason to worry for India. GCC is very big market for India and Indian farmers are prospering due to getting good prices for their products. They will be at a huge disadvantage after CPEC.
with all due respect it has been rightly pu by you
but you see i will not be closing my eyes specially after the completion of CPEC
that is when we need to watch our economics
'Nuff said

The new great game is about challenging the existing world order. China Russia, Turkey and Iran have joined forces and will be creating a new Eurasian security alliance to protect their economic and security interests.

China has already offered military assistance to the Syrian government. Russia and Turkey are discussing closer military cooperation and have revived the Turkstream gas pipeline project. The U.S. backed coup attempt in Turkey has ensured the latter will align with Russia and Iran. Meanwhile China has begun investing in Russian projects and joint military exercises. The recent Ankara visit of the Iranian Foreign Minister is aimed at further boosting security and economic ties with Turkey.

Where does this leave Pakistan? We will be joining the alliance as well since the success of CPEC hinges on our partnerships with the neighbors and stability in the region. Iran and Pakistan are discussing anti terror and gas pipeline cooperation while Russia is upgrading defence relations and building a $2B gas pipeline in our backyard. Cooperation with the Turks is already quite extensive while the Chinese remain our perennial strategic ally.

As economic and security interests converge, the China-Russia-Turkey-Iran-Pakistan alliance is taking shape. This is a paradigm shift as two previously staunch American allies are moving out from its sphere of influence.
exactly
as of now Pakistan does not comes under the radar of this alliance
as it should be
once CPEC is completed and its benefits are utilized then we can think of strategic adventures
 
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India interest in Chahbahar clearly show that India think it is now impossible to break Pakistan. It has to go on alternate route! Otherwise simplest way was to break Pak and have direct access with their chuddy friend Afghan!

Pakistanis are so blinded by Indian obsession & jealousy you can’t see the real game. More than India it’s the west who want to break Pakistan. Pakistan baselessly has been making allegation India for all its wrong adventure which backfires & failures. Yes now India will make it a reality by joining the world to break Pakistan if you people don’t wake up, though it looks too late.
India interest in Chahbahar clearly show that India think it is now impossible to break Pakistan. It has to go on alternate route! Otherwise simplest way was to break Pak and have direct access with their chuddy friend Afghan!

Unlike Pakistan, India is able to see what’s coming & fortunate to have Modi as the leader who understands world order & plans with action in the national interest.
The reality is China is a selfish arrogant fox, doesn’t care about exploiting people & situations for imposing their power & fulfilling their dream to rule the world. Alas Pakistan cannot see what’s coming. They will get the route through Pakistan & most people will leave Pakistan & slowly the Chinese will build their Military & bring in their people & occupy all these regions.
Only way out for Pakistan is India which can keep your country together. You are so filled with hatred & obsession you can’t see this. The whole NATO will gang up together with India to break China & you will be on the wrong side of history. Pakistan & Middle East is a easy to be wiped out, since most people think with the Islamic heart not with brain. There is no need of any attack or bombs. Just funding & conspiracies will break Pakistan & Middle East. The day Pakistan joins India the whole west will feel peace & China will be taken out for the world to function in peace. A cherry on the Cake would be if Pakistanis convert to any other religion. No need to even become Hindu.
Well all this is not possible, just giving my view, how to save your country. I have nothing against Islam or muslims, just sharing reality. If you feel your Allah will save you, then wait for reality to hit you. But remember the above mentioned is exactly what would happen.


Russia will patch up with the West once Putin is gone. What is Putin fighting for ?? He cannot conquer Ukraine. It is big to swallow.

Iran/Russia and Turkey are on opposite sides of civil war in Syria


The biggest reality & shock for the world would be to see Russia staying out of America NATO conflict if an attack in future on China. Nobody realises Russian’s don’t trust Chinese, they are equally foxy like Chinese. They don’t have the economic power or population to fight a big & long war. Why do they supply arms to Vietnam, Indonesia, Iran & India when China has differences with these countries. Definitely there do exist deep-seated & historical apprehensions in every Russian think tank’s mind, that by selling arms to China, Russia is “feeding the tiger”. Many argue all these weapsons sale is going to jeopardise Russia’s own security in future.
You will read this analysis no-where, but a common person like me can understand the game, I am surprised the whole of Pakistan is not able to see these strategies. I have visited most of Pakistan discussion forum. All Pakistanis do is rejoice on India bashing & venting the anger & jealousy. You don’t realise or see that India is better placed in the world affairs. No action is taken to safeguard the National interest or survival. Your planning commission is trapped in the money making blindfold between your Military & Political power game. Nobody interested or daring to fight the unfolding events. What’s end result – whole country break up, no sight of peace, no growth or upliftment of country & people. When somebody talks the reality the people think they are traitors & you go to rest by some bashing & harsh words. It won’t reverse your doomsday.
Hope the people wake up & give national interest the top priority & extend hand of friendship or joining India like China Russia did for their interest. For that you have to shed your illusional Hindu beliefs & get past the pre-partition hatred. It’s possible if you think rationally & understand the world order & developments.



The above is a Pakistani. This is all planned long back
 
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Not anymore. Turkish military is already planning joint operations in Syria with the Russians. They are not too excited about the american effort to break up syria and create a Kurdish enclave on its border. Erdogan has already made a U turn on relations with Russia and Iran. At some point the Americans may be told to leave Incirlik air base as well.

Ukraine is next door to Russia. American efforts to induct it into NATO threatens Russian security. Imagine if Russia set up an alliance with Mexico and then built military bases across the border from Texas and Arizona. Uncle Sam would be stomping its foot and threatening all out war.

Putin cannot stop Ukraine from joining the EU. The EU is no military threat to anyone.
 
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