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The JF-17 is a truly remarkable plane

While this exercise is very good for acquiring advanced technical knowhow by Pakistan Aeronautical engineers; inclusion of the composite materials, bigger wings & AESA radar etc. must put a big question mark on its price. It is estimated that 20 to 25 % of the fuel is consumed during take-off, thus addition of air to air re-fueling probe from Block -2 onwards would increase loiter time. Besides, China already has J-10 & J-20, does she need another plane with similar performance?

There has been a recent trend towards low cost attack planes because of the $60- 100 million per unit price tag of the fighters such as F-18, Typhoon and F-16 block 60. Once per unit price of JF-17 approaches $40-million, export possibilities would be adversely affected.

In my humble opinion, making J-17 into a totally different beast than it was originally intended, may sound good on paper, but it does not make economic sense.
 
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While this exercise is very good for acquiring advanced technical knowhow by Pakistan Aeronautical engineers; inclusion of the composite materials, bigger wings & AESA radar etc. must put a big question mark on its price. It is estimated that 20 to 25 % of the fuel is consumed during take-off, thus addition of air to air re-fueling probe from Block -2 onwards would increase loiter time. Besides, China already has J-10 & J-20, does she need another plane with similar performance?

There has been a recent trend towards low cost attack planes because of the $60- 100 million per unit price tag of the fighters such as F-18, Typhoon and F-16 block 60. Once per unit price of JF-17 approaches $40-million, export possibilities would be adversely affected.

In my humble opinion, making J-17 into a totally different beast than it was originally intended, may sound good on paper, but it does not make economic sense.

Niaz Saheb.
Thank you for your post. I agree with the general gist of what you have said. However, progresssion is a natural sequence of development. In this process aviation experts might experiment with modified designs to see how improvement in the platform can be brought about. From JFTs perspective this can only be good and will only be done if they are not be too prohibitively expensive .
A few years ago Pshamim made a post in pakdef.info stating that the PAF highups have decided not to induct J10 instead relying on JFT for doing most of the jobs which J10 does. He himself expressed surprise at this. I think things are now becoming more clearer. I think increased loitering time and an additional hardpoint for carrying a reconniscence pod aree the need of the hour.If you take increased loitering time then additional hardpoints start making sense. However, personally I dont see JFT increasing hardpoints beyond that at least in the 2nd batch. You could make a point of increasing armaments by a dual rack which might be easily accomplished.
The issue of AESA is again a pithy one. Do we really need an AESA on each and every platofrm or a solitary of 2 platforms in a group could in a networked environment suffice the need. It may be that PAF adapts a more selective approach to the situatrion by gearing up a few platofrms with AESA and rely on networking to feed information to the advancing units. The incorporation of composites is another issue whgere a cost benefit exercise will be done beofre changes are incorporated.
In a nutshell the possibilities are immense once you start toying around with an item. You also need ot take into account the needs of a buying state which may want all the bells and whistles and not the hefty price and the JFT becomes a prospect for them. The realistic approach may well be a few specialised units in a group which are kitted up to suit the nature of the assignment. I dont see major cross field changes unless we find a cheap way of executing these changes in house. I would love to hear your in terpretation of the situation.
Regards
Araz
 
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According to the JF-17's engineers at Chengdu, the JF-17 has the world's second combat aircraft to have DSI intakes. These intakes reduce weight, costs and complexity while improving performance. The intake reduces one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft that typically represents between 30%-35% of the RCS of an aircraft. While the JF-17 began with a similar wing design concept to the F-16, The JF-17 has incorporated a leading-edge root extension that is similar in concept to the F/A-18. The leading-edge root extension (LERX) covers an area of about 9% of the Wing area. This has led to an improved Center of Gravity (CG) and better harmonization of its multirole capability by taking advantage of the pitch digital fly-by-wire Flight Control Systems (FCS) and the variations possible with the LERX.

The result of this is to improve control of the aircraft and to lower supersonic drag. Given the low margins on this class of combat aircraft, such improvement represent a significant feat.

The JF-17's Man Machine Interface (MMI), with full Hands On Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) and glass cockpit represent a truly 4+ generation in combat aircraft. The aircraft has the capability to perform air defense, interdiction, airfield strike, precision strike, and escort missions. While deep penetrations into Indian airspace may not be in the order of the day, given the close proximity of many Indian airfields and military installations, the JF-17 can play a significant role for the PAF, even in strike, a role sometimes overlooked by analysts. With the latest modifications and the newer version of the RD-93 (or WS-13), the JF-17 will be able to perform at a large radius of action.

In terms of meeting PAF's specifications, the JF-17 has the distinction of exceeding the PAF Air Staff requirements, including (surprisingly), for the attack role.

The Russian RD-93, despite "engineered" controversy by the Indian media, is slated to power at least the initial batches of the JF-17. The RD-93 is to be equiped with advanced crystal blade technology and a Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC). Other than improving the engine performance, the DEEC results in carefree handling under a wide range of conditions and at virtually all relevant altitudes.

The JF-17 has been designed from day one for ease of operations and maintainability. One such feature is that of a single point pressure refueling system. This significantly reduces the turn around time, meaning more sorties can be generated, while maintenance intensive Indian aircraft remain grounded. This is furthered by the modular maintenance design of the aircraft. The level of the serviceability and ease of general maintenance is further illustrated by how panels and components are installed at man's height and a full computer-controlled fault diagnosis and analysis system can be relied upon.

The JF-17 is a truly remarkable plane. Starting from the basic designs that Chengdu and the PAF were tinkering with, the Super-7 with basically a MiG-21 with side intakes, it has evolved into a completely different beast. The Internet Military Aviation community was taken by complete surprise, almost shock when the JF-17 came out with a modern cockpit, DSI intakes and previously unseen quality of build.

Yet, when even the most ardent followers of the program had thought that the JF-17 had fully evolved, it has once again surprised all of us in its next evolution. It is likely that this evolution is going to take shape after the second batch. Changes are comprehensive and across the board and include greater range, lower RCS, AESA radar and a new engine with greater TWR (thrust to weight ratio).

The lower RCS is to be reached using new materials, including advanced composites. A new RAM paint is also rumored that is said to be similar to that being used on the F-35. The nose will see comprehensive redesign and is rumored to incorporate a new AESA radar set of Chinese origin. One proposition is that the single tail is replaced with twin-tails similar to the F-35. A new DSI is also projected that will further lower RCS.

The TWR of the engine is projected to increase with the WS-13, which are likely to go into the second batch. The iteration of the WS-13, possibly the "WS-13A" is likely to go into the stealthier JF-17. Another painted scenario is of a further iteration of the RD-93. This will marginally increase the TWR further, which itself will increase the TWR marginally.

However, this increase in the TWR of the engine will be moderated by the increase in the wing size, greater internal fuel and the twin tails, amongst other weight increases. On the other hand, newer materials and over all weight decreasing projects in turn will moderate these weight increases.

The stealthier JF-17 will incorporate a larger wing, improving higher altitude maneuverability. This is a crucial aspect that is increasingly becoming important in BVR combat, where the higher and faster jets can in some form take pot shots at slower and lower BVR platforms. Another aspect of the larger wing will be increased internal fuel carrying capacity. This is addresses one of the areas that the JF-17 is weaker in - range and the ability to stay on station longer.

The nose, vital areas of the cockpit as well as a whole host of other technical areas will be addressed. the nose will in fact be fully redesigned around a new AESA radar and be formated to lower RCS. The DSI design is also being redesigned to better accommodate and optimize higher altitudes and higher speeds. A second generation of the onboard information collection, dissemination and display will be incorporated.

However, thrust vectoring will not be incorporated, neither will be internal carriage of weapons. This planned version may or may not go into production. However, all, most or many of the changes may be incorporated into the third batch of 50 being ordered by Pakistan. My personal opinion is that this prototype is more of a technology demonstrator. Major changes would not be appropriate unless a major export customer is found. I would think however that all the minor changes, as well as a few crucial major ones will be incorporated. This is likely to include the new engine, as well as the larger wings. Stealth features should also be incorporated but major redesign is likely to be avoided for the 3rd batch production models (such as twin tails and new nose). This version will be targeted for export and will not be part of the Chinese arsenal.

A Light Sabre for the Third World: The FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder (II)

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My elder brothers wifes brother who is an engineer in PAF has been sent to China for 1.5 year any idea why when we are developing JF-17 BLOCK II in Pakistan @Horus @fatman17 @Oscar
 
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And above all, within a decade, it's in production and operational in squadron service. !!


So tell us, is Tejas in line to be a world beater, ever wondered why despite being several decades late, why India is still pursuing this project...... apart from replacing the older fleet in PAF, JF-17 also is ideal to counter any threat from across the border......and despite the ignorance, the Block-52s are the best platforms in the region.
Here comes the Tejas..... @Oscar
 
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Let's stick to the topic here, we are not discussing Tejas or Block-52s here, both are a class-apart from JF-17, but save that discussion for another thread. I have already agreed that JF-17 is better than your old ROSE-III and F-7s, and can be a match for our Bisons, so it certainly increases your capabilities. But here we are only discussing JF-17, don't flame it by dragging in other planes.

Tejas is a class apart?

No wonder IAF doesn't want it.
 
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go ask the pilots.....
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dear it was you who quaoted it not me

Tejas is a class apart?

No wonder IAF doesn't want it.
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when you have option to choose better go for world class stuff..
yes tejas is not there which we wanted to be ..
but far better than our few neigbours are flying there much hype plane.. though it serve it purpose..
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some people boats on new mehran
while some othes have land cruser and waiting for new prius .. doest not make prius usless than mehran
 
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So tell us, is Tejas in line to be a world beater, ever wondered why despite being several decades late, why India is still pursuing this project...... apart from replacing the older fleet in PAF, JF-17 also is ideal to counter any threat from across the border......and despite the ignorance, the Block-52s are the best platforms in the region.


Dont Spoil the Discussion @Windjammer

BTW, Kya yar Hamesha Troll karte ho. baat JF17 ki ho rahi hai.. bich me Tejas Ghusa Dia.
Aur fir bhi bologe INDIANS are Obsessed with Pakistan !
 
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it's a nice plane
it'll get the job done
but how will it fair again the Super Flanker and F-35?
 
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it's a nice plane
it'll get the job done
but how will it fair again the Super Flanker and F-35?

Against the super flanker its designed to run. Against the F-35 it has no Chance, even though in terms of design ideas it borrows a lot from the F-35. Including the DSI, C++ Language usage, Common upgradable architecture etc.
 
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Against the super flanker its designed to run. Against the F-35 it has no Chance, even though in terms of design ideas it borrows a lot from the F-35. Including the DSI, C++ Language usage, Common upgradable architecture etc.
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C++ Language usage, Common upgradable architecture
IS IT NOT WITH OTHER AIRCRAFT
 
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Let's stick to the topic here, we are not discussing Tejas or Block-52s here, both are a class-apart from JF-17, but save that discussion for another thread. I have already agreed that JF-17 is better than your old ROSE-III and F-7s, and can be a match for our Bisons, so it certainly increases your capabilities. But here we are only discussing JF-17, don't flame it by dragging in other planes.
IT was officially made to Tackle Mig-29s, Gripens, and Su-27s . Pakistan didnt bought the Gripens because they Knew JF-17 Thunders are better.While Mig-29 Fulcrum, JAS-39C Gripen, and SU-27 Flanker are far superior than Mig-21 Fishbed. I think You are a little jealous of JF-17 Thunder :chilli:. As we Pakistani are Proud of it. :smitten: :pakistan:
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IT was officially made to Tackle Mig-29s, Gripens, and Su-27s . Pakistan didnt bought the Gripens because they Knew JF-17 Thunders are better.While Mig-29 Fulcrum, JAS-39C Gripen, and SU-27 Flanker are far superior than Mig-21 Fishbed. I think You are a little jealous of JF-17 Thunder :chilli:. As we Pakistani are Proud of it. :smitten: :pakistan:
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Superb Pic.

My personal Favourite : ( One Word.... Damn "Sexy" !!! )

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