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The issue isn't about MRAPs or drones available

Vapour

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Wanted to create this thread to point out the fallacy of the knee-jerk reactions in this forum to the recent attacks in Waziristan and Balochistan. From a logical standpoint, I believe we are not focusing on the correct pieces of the puzzle - this is because we are looking to fix situations which in most cases are unsalvageable (ambushes/IED attacks), yes MRAPs may instead of instantly killing, just severely injure, but wouldn't that still leave our men at the mercy of the Ts? Similarly, with drones, yes they are more effective, particularly in remote areas such as where these attacks happen, but again the point is not to react to the attacks - how do you prevent these in the first place? Prevention is better than cure.

I believe the armed forces are and have been doing the following and more for the past many months and years, as there is no other way that attacks on civilians were pretty much neutralised:

- Exhaustive and thorough investigations of these attacks, particularly the IED ones, as these require sufficient expertise to make. In doing so, this can possibly breakdown the very basics of where the materials have come from, who's involved and where they are making these.

- I may be wrong, but logically, these attacks aren't coming from those who genuinely think they can "free" these regions, particularly Balochistan which comprises ca. 45% of Pakistan's land mass. They're coming from people who are getting paid and abetted from your neighbours, whether it's through hawala or other such methods, it doesn't matter, simply finding the evidence and collecting it is not enough - it needs to be actioned. Such evidence needs to be presented where relevant, to the UN, to the ICJ and wherever we can dent whoever is involved, be it it Iran, India or any other country. However, again, this isn't where we need to stop, much more needs to be done and is probably being done.

- We have seen from incidents in the past of actions in Iran, Afghanistan and in occupied Kashmir where elements inimical to Pakistan have been targeted. Kudos to the ones who have done and are doing these actions, they are truly great friends and "ghost" warriors. Hopefully, such covert ops can be further targeted toward IED making factories, meeting points of foreign Intel officers with Ts (not directly relevant here but I recall reading in this forum that an Iranian intel officer was caught red-handed with target killers in Pakistan), their hideouts along or slightly across the border etc.

- Still, in terms of prevention, this would not and should not cut the mustard. These steps only seek to prevent attacks from occurring, how can the enemy be prevented or to use the more accurate term, deterred from pursuing attacks on Pakistani territory? As a few posters have mentioned, this can only be done by targeting, one, the personnel involved, say from India if it's their intel involved in Afghanistan, they cannot be allowed to operate there, there shouldn't be a trace of them left. Secondly, their capability and capacity to fund and wage such attacks should be degraded and eroded, can be done in several ways, by hitting them very effectively in Afghanistan or Iran, thereby rendering their ability to use that country as a launchpad for action against Pakistan useless or it can be to embroil them in similar attacks in their own country, so they are forced to cut their disgraceful cowardice on our western borders and instead deal with their own issues, which they have in the millions.

- More can and should always be done, the tone of the PM and COAS is a bit too conciliatory, though the latter has emphasized on focusing on fighting hybrid warfare recently, which is a good departure from the norm. Hope we see a bit more of a hawkish undertone to the action side of things, particularly with re to putting our rivals on the backfoot rather than reacting to their aggression. We have full belief in the Pak armed forces and everyone should realise that if they have brought Pakistan back from the brink, such as in 2009 when the Ts had occupied so much land in FATA - PA, PAF and to a lesser extent PN, had to fight tooth and nail to wrest it back, that they will do so once again to not only neutralise these attacks occurring now but also reverse the odds on our enemies.
 
Wanted to create this thread to point out the fallacy of the knee-jerk reactions in this forum to the recent attacks in Waziristan and Balochistan. From a logical standpoint, I believe we are not focusing on the correct pieces of the puzzle - this is because we are looking to fix situations which in most cases are unsalvageable (ambushes/IED attacks), yes MRAPs may instead of instantly killing, just severely injure, but wouldn't that still leave our men at the mercy of the Ts? Similarly, with drones, yes they are more effective, particularly in remote areas such as where these attacks happen, but again the point is not to react to the attacks - how do you prevent these in the first place? Prevention is better than cure.

I believe the armed forces are and have been doing the following and more for the past many months and years, as there is no other way that attacks on civilians were pretty much neutralised:

- Exhaustive and thorough investigations of these attacks, particularly the IED ones, as these require sufficient expertise to make. In doing so, this can possibly breakdown the very basics of where the materials have come from, who's involved and where they are making these.

- I may be wrong, but logically, these attacks aren't coming from those who genuinely think they can "free" these regions, particularly Balochistan which comprises ca. 45% of Pakistan's land mass. They're coming from people who are getting paid and abetted from your neighbours, whether it's through hawala or other such methods, it doesn't matter, simply finding the evidence and collecting it is not enough - it needs to be actioned. Such evidence needs to be presented where relevant, to the UN, to the ICJ and wherever we can dent whoever is involved, be it it Iran, India or any other country. However, again, this isn't where we need to stop, much more needs to be done and is probably being done.

- We have seen from incidents in the past of actions in Iran, Afghanistan and in occupied Kashmir where elements inimical to Pakistan have been targeted. Kudos to the ones who have done and are doing these actions, they are truly great friends and "ghost" warriors. Hopefully, such covert ops can be further targeted toward IED making factories, meeting points of foreign Intel officers with Ts (not directly relevant here but I recall reading in this forum that an Iranian intel officer was caught red-handed with target killers in Pakistan), their hideouts along or slightly across the border etc.

- Still, in terms of prevention, this would not and should not cut the mustard. These steps only seek to prevent attacks from occurring, how can the enemy be prevented or to use the more accurate term, deterred from pursuing attacks on Pakistani territory? As a few posters have mentioned, this can only be done by targeting, one, the personnel involved, say from India if it's their intel involved in Afghanistan, they cannot be allowed to operate there, there shouldn't be a trace of them left. Secondly, their capability and capacity to fund and wage such attacks should be degraded and eroded, can be done in several ways, by hitting them very effectively in Afghanistan or Iran, thereby rendering their ability to use that country as a launchpad for action against Pakistan useless or it can be to embroil them in similar attacks in their own country, so they are forced to cut their disgraceful cowardice on our western borders and instead deal with their own issues, which they have in the millions.

- More can and should always be done, the tone of the PM and COAS is a bit too conciliatory, though the latter has emphasized on focusing on fighting hybrid warfare recently, which is a good departure from the norm. Hope we see a bit more of a hawkish undertone to the action side of things, particularly with re to putting our rivals on the backfoot rather than reacting to their aggression. We have full belief in the Pak armed forces and everyone should realise that if they have brought Pakistan back from the brink, such as in 2009 when the Ts had occupied so much land in FATA - PA, PAF and to a lesser extent PN, had to fight tooth and nail to wrest it back, that they will do so once again to not only neutralise these attacks occurring now but also reverse the odds on our enemies.


Exactly

When it happens it's horrendous for everyone but the bottom line is for a nation of 220 million these infrequent attacks are better dealt with through a intelligence led destruction of our enemies

One by one hunting them down, cutting their funding, making their attacks upon PAKISTAN expensive for them

We can better use technology to make things better but their is no silver bullet and the reality is that the Pakistani population is for the most part safeguarded now due to the sacrifices of our military

Basically we are winning, it's hard to see that when we lose soldiers but it's been almost a month since the attack and no other major incident
In. 12 month period compared to a decade ago our losses are minimal (in the cold hard light of day)
 
Wanted to create this thread to point out the fallacy of the knee-jerk reactions in this forum to the recent attacks in Waziristan and Balochistan. From a logical standpoint, I believe we are not focusing on the correct pieces of the puzzle - this is because we are looking to fix situations which in most cases are unsalvageable (ambushes/IED attacks), yes MRAPs may instead of instantly killing, just severely injure, but wouldn't that still leave our men at the mercy of the Ts? Similarly, with drones, yes they are more effective, particularly in remote areas such as where these attacks happen, but again the point is not to react to the attacks - how do you prevent these in the first place? Prevention is better than cure.

I believe the armed forces are and have been doing the following and more for the past many months and years, as there is no other way that attacks on civilians were pretty much neutralised:

- Exhaustive and thorough investigations of these attacks, particularly the IED ones, as these require sufficient expertise to make. In doing so, this can possibly breakdown the very basics of where the materials have come from, who's involved and where they are making these.

- I may be wrong, but logically, these attacks aren't coming from those who genuinely think they can "free" these regions, particularly Balochistan which comprises ca. 45% of Pakistan's land mass. They're coming from people who are getting paid and abetted from your neighbours, whether it's through hawala or other such methods, it doesn't matter, simply finding the evidence and collecting it is not enough - it needs to be actioned. Such evidence needs to be presented where relevant, to the UN, to the ICJ and wherever we can dent whoever is involved, be it it Iran, India or any other country. However, again, this isn't where we need to stop, much more needs to be done and is probably being done.

- We have seen from incidents in the past of actions in Iran, Afghanistan and in occupied Kashmir where elements inimical to Pakistan have been targeted. Kudos to the ones who have done and are doing these actions, they are truly great friends and "ghost" warriors. Hopefully, such covert ops can be further targeted toward IED making factories, meeting points of foreign Intel officers with Ts (not directly relevant here but I recall reading in this forum that an Iranian intel officer was caught red-handed with target killers in Pakistan), their hideouts along or slightly across the border etc.

- Still, in terms of prevention, this would not and should not cut the mustard. These steps only seek to prevent attacks from occurring, how can the enemy be prevented or to use the more accurate term, deterred from pursuing attacks on Pakistani territory? As a few posters have mentioned, this can only be done by targeting, one, the personnel involved, say from India if it's their intel involved in Afghanistan, they cannot be allowed to operate there, there shouldn't be a trace of them left. Secondly, their capability and capacity to fund and wage such attacks should be degraded and eroded, can be done in several ways, by hitting them very effectively in Afghanistan or Iran, thereby rendering their ability to use that country as a launchpad for action against Pakistan useless or it can be to embroil them in similar attacks in their own country, so they are forced to cut their disgraceful cowardice on our western borders and instead deal with their own issues, which they have in the millions.

- More can and should always be done, the tone of the PM and COAS is a bit too conciliatory, though the latter has emphasized on focusing on fighting hybrid warfare recently, which is a good departure from the norm. Hope we see a bit more of a hawkish undertone to the action side of things, particularly with re to putting our rivals on the backfoot rather than reacting to their aggression. We have full belief in the Pak armed forces and everyone should realise that if they have brought Pakistan back from the brink, such as in 2009 when the Ts had occupied so much land in FATA - PA, PAF and to a lesser extent PN, had to fight tooth and nail to wrest it back, that they will do so once again to not only neutralise these attacks occurring now but also reverse the odds on our enemies.
If fc has mraps they will be able to fight back each time they’re ambushed. Mrap can protect against their small arms fire and rpgs. They can also take those and still fight back. Even if the crew in the mrap is able to fight for 10 mins by then other fc will come. Also while giving mraps to fc we needa step up our security on the Iranian and afghan border so they can’t smuggle atgms. Mraps can significantly help reduce the number of deaths and help boast morale.
 

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