The ISI needs to reform itself

[53fd]

Let's get a few things clear. There will be no war between the US & Pakistan. Neither country wants that. The Americans are suffering terribly in Afghanistan, & Pakistan is faring badly as well. However, with polar opposite objectives of both countries w.r.t Afghanistan, some compromises will be made by both countries before the US withdraws its troops.

The ISI needs to reform itself. It has created a cobweb for itself. It is rooting for the Haqqani network & the Quetta Shoora for the end game in Afghanistan. The US does not want the Haqqani network in the picture for the end game in Afghanistan. I believe the US is fine with some kind of power sharing between the Mullah Umar group (Quetta Shoora) & the present leadership in Afghanistan, but no group that has strong ties with the Al-Qaeda.

Let us make a distinction between a few groups:

1. Al-Qaeda (Arab fighters, international group of terrorists)

2. Al-Qaeda affiliate groups in the region (LeT, HeM, IMU, TSNM)

3. Afghan Taliban (Mullah Umar group, Hekmatyar, Haqqani)

4. Pakistani Taliban TTP (Mehsud group, Fazlullah, Waziri group. The Waziri group have burned their bridges with Mehsud & Fazlullah)

5. Punjabi Taliban splinter groups (LeJ)

It is very easy to see in these 5 categories how the cobweb has been created. The Al-Qaeda needs splinter groups, & local Pashtun groups to thrive in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region. So the Al-Qaeda are protected by all these groups. While the Al-Qaeda are given protection from the Afghan Taliban, the TTP, the Punjabi Taliban; these 3 groups do not have the best of relations with one another, with their loyalties shifting very easily. While Pakistan is rooting for the Haqqani network as well as the Waziri group (Mullah Nazir, Hafiz Gul Bahadur); these groups have strong ties with Al-Qaeda as well, & the Al-Qaeda is an inherent threat to Pakistan, even if the Haqqani network & Waziri group by themselves aren't. Pakistan needs to disentangle itself from this cobweb.

The local Punjabi Taliban are splinter groups, & they aid the Al-Qaeda & their affiliate groups such as the LeT, HeM in Kashmir; & the IMU, TSNM in Afghanistan. The ISI has not supported these groups in anyway, but they have not disbanded the Punjabi Taliban either as they 'serve a purpose in the region'. But the LeJ is also responsible for the killing of Shias & other minorities in Pakistan. The Al-Qaeda & their affiliate groups are a threat to Pakistan as well, & are responsible for killings inside Pakistan.

In North Waziristan, the ISI is looking to root out the Mehsud TTP faction by marginalizing them, getting the support of the Haqqani network & the Waziri group to fight them. That will most likely work out in Pakistan's favor as well. While the ISI will not be looking to burn bridges with the Haqqani network, they need to make sure that the Haqqani network sever their ties with Al-Qaeda groups & their affiliates. The Punjabi Taliban that aid the Al-Qaeda & their affiliates in Kashmir & Afghanistan, & are responsible for suicide bombings inside Pakistan must be rooted out.

 

[somebozo]

In a nutshell, time has come for ISI to be more professional and dismantle the cold war era proxy groups as well the rotten idealogy behind it and arm itself with the new knowledge of diplomatic and strategic geo-economic warfare.

 

[53fd]

The war on terror is a game of 'intelligence'. Whoever gets more credible intelligence will achieve their objectives in the region.

 

[OrionHunter]

No one can claim to have lived up as much to the notoriety of an intelligence agency as Pakistan's Directorate of Inter Services Intelligence has. From the days when its men mapped desolate parts for the British Empire, the ISI has now taken the craft of intelligence to mean bloody pursuits almost invariably trapped in gore and violence.

For years it had an almost uninterrupted run - from its actions in East and West Pakistan, to setting up a pipeline of arms, ammunition and money for Afghan mujahiddins in the '80s. That's apart from the decades of 'bleeding India through a thousand cuts' (Zia).

But there could be a pause now. For the first time since the ISI metamorphosed into its present-day aggressive self, serious questions are being asked about the future of the agency. It may be losing its sheen and supremacy.

Will it remain the core of Pakistan's military intelligence complex? Or will it sink in Pakistan's anger unleashed in the wake of the Abbottabad and Mehran operations? Will its anti India strategy of deploying terrorists end or at least reduce significantly?

There may be no clear answers at the present juncture but indications of its future are firmly emerging from various quarters. However, the only unanimity is that the ISI's standing vis-a-vis the Pakistani public would be significantly diminished.

And according to various reports, some parts of the Army as well as the ISI have been infiltrated by radical elements who have an agenda of their own. The bad news is that this is spreading within the rank and file at an alarming rate!

There's a choice the Army and its adjunct the ISI have. Whether to change course, join the comity of nations, help rebuild Pakistan's democratic institutions and improve the standard of living of Pakistanis by spending on education, health care and alleviation of poverty or continue to indulge in aggressive cloak and dagger activities leading it down the spiral path to death and destruction.

 

[AAtish]

No one can claim to have lived up as much to the notoriety of an intelligence agency as Pakistan's Directorate of Inter Services Intelligence has. From the days when its men mapped desolate parts for the British Empire, the ISI has now taken the craft of intelligence to mean bloody pursuits almost invariably trapped in gore and violence.

For years it had an almost uninterrupted run - from its actions in East and West Pakistan, to setting up a pipeline of arms, ammunition and money for Afghan mujahiddins in the '80s. That's apart from the decades of 'bleeding India through a thousand cuts' (Zia).

But there could be a pause now. For the first time since the ISI metamorphosed into its present-day aggressive self, serious questions are being asked about the future of the agency. It may be losing its sheen and supremacy.

Will it remain the core of Pakistan's military intelligence complex? Or will it sink in Pakistan's anger unleashed in the wake of the Abbottabad and Mehran operations? Will its anti India strategy of deploying terrorists end or at least reduce significantly?

There may be no clear answers at the present juncture but indications of its future are firmly emerging from various quarters. However, the only unanimity is that the ISI's standing vis-a-vis the Pakistani public would be significantly diminished.

And according to various reports, some parts of the Army as well as the ISI have been infiltrated by radical elements who have an agenda of their own. The bad news is that this is spreading within the rank and file at an alarming rate!

There's a choice the Army and its adjunct the ISI have. Whether to change course, join the comity of nations, help rebuild Pakistan's democratic institutions and improve the standard of living of Pakistanis by spending on education, health care and alleviation of poverty or continue to indulge in aggressive cloak and dagger activities leading it down the spiral path to death and destruction.

Blah.. Blah.. Blah.. Blah..

ISI has been an agency which has been keeping Pakistan's pride upheld.. It has been sinking fear in the hearts and minds of Pakistan's enemies and it will keep on doing so, we do not consider them 'gods' like some Indians call their 'heros'.. these are solid humans and are prone to mistakes.. they made a few i agree.. but let me burst your bubble..

IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING FOR INDIA...

I agree your 'handler' is good.. you come up with nicely streamlined 'hidden' suggestions.. but you are forgetting something.. Pakistani people, no matter what happened or happens, are NEVER going to consider Indians as their 'friends'.. you want to know the reason?.. we have in-build hate for Indians, and to be honest with you Indians are doing nothing to reduce it, just check how many times India brought their forces on Pakistan's border and threatened us..

There is a choice for Indians to make now, either stand with Pakistanis and show them that you do NOT want Pakistanis to be your enemy, or just wait for us to get free from this War of Terror, which we will (as usual).. You have proven to be our Enemy by putting up the 'wanted' list anyways..

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Blah.. Blah.. Blah.. Blah..

ISI has been an agency which has been keeping Pakistan's pride upheld.. It has been sinking fear in the hearts and minds of Pakistan's enemies and it will keep on doing so, we do not consider them 'gods' like some Indians call their 'heros'.. these are solid humans and are prone to mistakes.. they made a few i agree.. but let me burst your bubble..

IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING FOR INDIA...

I agree your 'handler' is good.. you come up with nicely streamlined 'hidden' suggestions.. but you are forgetting something.. Pakistani people, no matter what happened or happens, are NEVER going to consider Indians as their 'friends'.. you want to know the reason?.. we have in-build hate for Indians, and to be honest with you Indians are doing nothing to reduce it, just check how many times India brought their forces on Pakistan's border and threatened us..

There is a choice for Indians to make now, either stand with Pakistanis and show them that you do NOT want Pakistanis to be your enemy, or just wait for us to get free from this War of Terror, which we will (as usual).. You have proven to be our Enemy by putting up the 'wanted' list anyways..

it is not india, who has to make the choice, it is pakistan who has to make it. we indians are happy with present status.

as far as ISI is concerned, u r own leaders dont trust ISI. thats why u r leaders talked of conducting a UN enquiry into benazir bhutto killing. ISI does more damage to pakistan then any other agency in the world.

 

[53fd]

What the ISI is going through is nothing unusual. It happens to all intelligence agencies, especially the major ones like the CIA & MI6, & others. The ISI is no different. I still have a lot of faith in the ISI, & I am sure it will get out of this problem. It has all the necessary tools to get out of this mess.

 

[muse]

I'm delighted to be reading the "transition" you have become convinced is necessary to take Pakistan and the Pakistan armed forces and their agencies to new heights - while some may not have at first understood the need for "transition", it's gratifying that increasing numbers are coming to the realization that new problems will of course require new solutions. The important thing is to keep the institutions of the state ahead of the curve, so to speak, to keep them in a state where they are prepared, where they have foreseen the problems that will confront them and have been proactive in seeking solutions.

 

[53fd]

What people don't realize is that the US is as responsible (if not more) for this mess in Afghanistan, Pakistan as Pakistan is. These terrorist groups do not benefit anyone anymore, they are a threat to Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, US, India, Russia; every country in the region. Pakistan will be assisted by the US to get rid off these terror groups that are a nuisance for every country in the region (as the US is probably the biggest reason for this mess today), while letting Pakistan maintain 'some kind of influence' in Afghanistan in the end game of all this (free from Al-Qaeda influence though). The US has the added responsibility of getting rid off terror groups in Afghanistan that have nothing to do with Pakistan: such as the ones that are attacking Herat, Badhgis & other parts of Western Afghanistan, as well as the terror groups in North Afghanistan such as the IMU & other groups, as well as terrorists from the former Soviet territories. The US has a huge responsibility to fulfill, & let's see if it does. It won't be easy for them, & Afghanistan is in a much more precarious situation than Pakistan is. Afghanistan is being attacked from all sides: East, West, North, South. In Pakistan, the problem is mostly (but not completely) restricted to the FATA/autonomous region which the government never integrated into mainstream Pakistan. Pakistan needs to integrate FATA into mainstream Pakistan, instead of letting it be autonomous, especially with the open Western border with Afghanistan.

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

What people don't realize is that the US is as responsible (if not more) for this mess in Afghanistan/Pakistan than Pakistan is. These terrorist groups do not benefit anyone anymore, they are a threat to Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, US, India; every country. Pakistan will be assisted by the US to get rid off these terror groups that are a nuisance for every country in the region (as the US is probably the biggest reason for this mess today), while letting Pakistan maintain 'some kind of influence' in Afghanistan in the end game of all this (free from Al-Qaeda influence though). The US has the added responsibility of getting rid off terror groups in Afghanistan that have nothing to do with Pakistan: such as the ones that are attacking Herat, Badhgis & other parts of Western Afghanistan, as well as the terror groups in North Afghanistan such as the IMU & other groups, as well as terrorists from the former Soviet territories. The US has a huge responsibility to fulfill, & let's see if it does. It won't be easy for them, & Afghanistan is in a much more precarious situation than Pakistan is. Afghanistan is being attacked from all sides: East, West, North, South. In Pakistan, the problem is mostly restricted to the FATA/autonomous region which the government never integrated into mainstream Pakistan. Pakistan needs to integrate FATA into mainstream Pakistan, instead of letting it be autonomous, especially with the open Western border with Afghanistan.

i agree US has to take some kind of responsibility for wat is happening in afghanistan and pakistan but the majority of responsibility lies with pakistanis themselves.

the present status of pakistan is direct result of the way radicalisation of islam has happend in last three decades. the problem is it has been allowed to happen by both military and civilian govts.

i think if pakistan has to survive it must look inwards. i see people still supporting radicalisation in this very forum.

i read news of people celebrating death of punjab governor and chanting slogans in supporting the murderer. the worst part is govt and military are too afraid to take actions. it is this appeasement which is more terrifying.

i say u sort out u r radicalisation and extremism mess, things will start to look better.

 

[AAtish]

[/COLOR]

it is not india, who has to make the choice, it is pakistan who has to make it. we indians are happy with present status.

as far as ISI is concerned, u r own leaders dont trust ISI. thats why u r leaders talked of conducting a UN enquiry into benazir bhutto killing. ISI does more damage to pakistan then any other agency in the world.

It was because of Benazir Bhutto that you managed to come to this state where 'you Indians are happy with your present state'

If BB hadn't provided you with the list of Khalistan Tehreek people you'd be eating each other right now..

and you talking about our leaders and politicians.. just wait and see what happens with them.. the tide is turning.. now they'll seek 'asylum' in their master's homes.. lets see if they are provided with it or if they are going to 'marry' someone to stay there, just like 'bhai' is staying in UK..

 

[muse]

Allow me to take issue with the portion that deals with problems inside Pakistan - this problem is not limited to FATA and such - indeed, the problem is best characterized as "general" because of it's pervasive nature - and here of course I am referring to extremism - before it is a behavioral choice, it is an ideology and before that it is a problem looking for a solution --- An understanding of the major societal problem in Pakistan cannot be said to be complete without a realization that extremist thought and behavior has to be imparted, it has to be taught, it has to be supported -- and if we are to be serious, that is to say truthful, we must acknowledge that none of this could have been possible without the support of the State and her institutions -- it is this support that must, as a first step, be withdrawn and turned into as serious disapproval as it was once approved.

 

[EastWest]

There is a choice for Indians to make now, either stand with Pakistanis and show them that you do NOT want Pakistanis to be your enemy, or just wait for us to get free from this War of Terror, which we will (as usual).. You have proven to be our Enemy by putting up the 'wanted' list anyways..

The Choice is for u to make...Its for u to stop being enemy of India

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

It was because of Benazir Bhutto that you managed to come to this state where 'you Indians are happy with your present state'

If BB hadn't provided you with the list of Khalistan Tehreek people you'd be eating each other right now..

and you talking about our leaders and politicians.. just wait and see what happens with them.. the tide is turning.. now they'll seek 'asylum' in their master's homes.. lets see if they are provided with it or if they are going to 'marry' someone to stay there, just like 'bhai' is staying in UK..

i dont see change happening. may be its too slow.

 

[AAtish]

Allow me to take issue with the portion that deals with problems inside Pakistan - this problem is not limited to FATA and such - indeed, the problem is best characterized as "general" because of it's pervasive nature - and here of course I am referring to extremism - before it is a behavioral choice, it is an ideology and before that it is a problem looking for a solution --- An understanding of the major societal problem in Pakistan cannot be said to be complete without a realization that extremist thought and behavior has to be imparted, it has to be taught, it has to be supported -- and if we are to be serious, that is to say truthful, we must acknowledge that none of this could have been possible without the support of the State and her institutions -- it is this support that must, as a first step, be withdrawn and turned into as serious disapproval as it was once approved.

So serious about your approach for the future, thats good to see, but in the process, do not forget that some people (looking towards east) are trying to put all the blame squarely on OUR country-- In the process, they are 'twisting' the facts of history-- If you so want to 'look forward' then make sure it is 'backward compatible'.. You cannot just wipe the slate and start over.. Its a 'state' you are dealing with, not a 'slate'.. know the difference please..

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------

The Choice is for u to make...Its for u to stop being enemy of India

Then i have two words for you.... 'dream On'...