The Glory of the Mughal Empire

[Aepsilons]

Let's compare our facial phenotype with that of one the Greatest Moghul Emperors,

Akbar E Azam , whose Mongol-Turkic facial phenotype was very prominent. And of course, his very fair skin complexion, typical of Northern Central Asian and East Asian peoples:

 

[sahaliyan]

Awesome, man! Do you know how to speak in native Manchu dialect?

North East Asians have very similar facial phenotype, our languages may have some differences, but the facial phenotype: almond eyes, prominent nasal bridge, long cheek bones, and our very fair complexion. I think Japanese, Mongols, Manchu, Korean and some northern Chinese have these traits.



Me: @Nihonjin1051

@sahaliyan :

The song is in Manchu language
海东青—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看
Most Manchus lost their language today,however there are some Xibes keep the language alive,the Xibes are a group of bannermen sent by the emperor Qianlong to Xinjiang to protect the newly conquered terrority(gainst Russian invaders,Hui and Uyghur-Taranchi rebels and so on),in Dungan revolt,they lost one third of their population(from 20000 to 13000),and there are 40000 Xibes in Xinjiang now.The Qapqal Xibe Autonomous County are made for them

 

[Aepsilons]

The song is in Manchu language
海东青—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看
Most Manchus lost their language today,however there are some Xibes keep the language alive,the Xibes are a group of bannermen sent by the emperor Qianlong to Xinjiang to protect the newly conquered terrority(gainst Russian invaders,Hui and Uyghur-Taranchi rebels and so on),in Dungan revolt,they lost one third of their population(from 20000 to 13000),and there are 40000 Xibes in Xinjiang now.The Qapqal Xibe Autonomous County are made for them

I think it's important to protect and preserve the language of the Manchus, as well as all the other ethnic minorities in China.

In Japan, we have minorities as well, ranging from the Ryukan people, who have their own unique dialects (we cannot understand it when they speak it), and also the Ainu minority who live in northern Hokkaido. In fact, my mother's side is part Ainu, so i also have Ainu blood. That said, its important to preserve the ethnic and linguistic repositories, be it ancestral lands, temples, and more archaeological and anthropological studies should be done to support preservation.

In Hokkaido and most parts of northern Japan, which has a large Ainu presence or Ainu mixture, we have Ainu festivals called in Japanese as Kumamatsuri, but in the Ainu dialect it is known as Iomante.

 

[sahaliyan]

A Xibe Song,Yilibira,means ili river
13-8.伊犁河（锡伯语）_在线视频观看_土豆视频 锡伯

 

[Alienoz_TR]

@Nihonjin1051 Taimur was not son of Gengis Khan. He claimed descent from Gengis Khan, but this is not conclusively settled as far as I know. What is sure is that Babur was descended from Mother's side from the great Khan. You are right about Babur in that he was a capable military leader. He could be cruel, but this was not his nature but rather a matter of necessity. Once when he ruled Samarqand, he saw a riot at City gates. His approach was to have arrows shot into the unruly mob. This was how things were such a long time ago. These days people are usually well-educated enough that one can reason with them perhaps, but back in those days when kings ruled by force such things were common.

Tamerlane was the son of Targatay of Barlas Tribe. Mongol in origin, Turkic by language.

For Babar, Although it is difficult to read taliq hatt of Baburnama, i can understand portions of it.

 

[Aepsilons]

A Xibe Song,Yilibira,means ili river
13-8.伊犁河（锡伯语）_在线视频观看_土豆视频 锡伯

The Manchu language is , in my opinion, very beautiful, mate. Sounds almost similar to Mongol, Korean and Japanese. The tones, definitely.

The song is in Manchu language
海东青—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看
Most Manchus lost their language today,however there are some Xibes keep the language alive,the Xibes are a group of bannermen sent by the emperor Qianlong to Xinjiang to protect the newly conquered terrority(gainst Russian invaders,Hui and Uyghur-Taranchi rebels and so on),in Dungan revolt,they lost one third of their population(from 20000 to 13000),and there are 40000 Xibes in Xinjiang now.The Qapqal Xibe Autonomous County are made for them

Interesting, so there are still some Manchu presence in Xinjiang, eh?

 

[Tshering22]

I'm interested to know if there exists in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh any descendents of the Imperial Timurid Dynasty?

They are probably driving autorickshaws and living somewhere.

Anyway, they were never ours. Only foreign invaders. We don't consider them as ours except a few leftist wannabes.

They were just a primitive invading force that got some traction in north India while their governors and regional stooges just kept fighting revolts and wars daily to even control central and western India (hint: don't go by their maps drawn; they never had any control except for north India and some parts in east).

We northeasterners are either indifferent to them or communities like mine who fought these jokers and drove their lot back to the plains, consider their kind below us.

 

[Aepsilons]

Tamerlane was the son of Targatay of Barlas Tribe. Mongol in origin, Turkic by language.

For Babar, Although it is difficult to read taliq hatt of Baburnama, i can understand portions of it.

You're right, mate. A lot of people say he was Turkic, but only through spoken language. I agree, Babur was more so Mongol in ethnic beauty. That is why most of the early Emperors of the Moghul Empire have very East Asian appearance per se: 1) Babur, 2) Hamuyan, 3) Akbar E Azam etc...

They are probably driving autorickshaws and living somewhere.

Anyway, they were never ours. Only foreign invaders. We don't consider them as ours except a few leftist wannabes.

They were just a primitive invading force that got some traction in north India while their governors and regional stooges just kept fighting revolts and wars daily to even control central and western India (hint: don't go by their maps drawn; they never had any control except for north India and some parts in east).

We northeasterners are either indifferent to them or communities like mine who fought these jokers and drove their lot back to the plains, consider their kind below us.

My friend, I can empathize with the sentiments regarding foreign forces , but all societies and civilizations are a result of influx of foreigners onto a native region. The transference of ideologies, religion, military doctrine, agricultural and industrial techniques are shared trans-nationally. The Mughals were , indeed, not native to present day India, Pakistan, as they were originally from the Timurid Dynasty , which are Central Asian Mongols. But we as readers of history and arts and culture, we can appreciate their contribution to the development of the Subcontinent. I admire their ability, similar to their Mongol forebears, to get past the notion of xenophobiasm that is very prominent in many Asian civilizations, and to adapt to the subject peoples' culture. We see this with the descendents of Kublai Khan (who ruled China), the descendents of Oda Khan (who ruled the Golden Horde), and we see this with Babur (who ruled most of what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh...).

 

[Foot12]

They are probably driving autorickshaws and living somewhere.

Anyway, they were never ours. Only foreign invaders. We don't consider them as ours except a few leftist wannabes.

They were just a primitive invading force that got some traction in north India while their governors and regional stooges just kept fighting revolts and wars daily to even control central and western India (hint: don't go by their maps drawn; they never had any control except for north India and some parts in east).

We northeasterners are either indifferent to them or communities like mine who fought these jokers and drove their lot back to the plains, consider their kind below us.

The great rulers of India in the 16th, 17th and 18th century were Krishnadevaraya of the Vijayanagar Empire,
Shivaji Maharaj of the Maratha Empire, Lachit Borphukan of the Ahom kingdom, Bajirao of the Maratha Empire
Tipu Sultan of the Mysore kingdom, Maharana Pratap of Mewar and Mahadji Shinde of the Maratha Empire

​

 

[sahaliyan]

The Manchu language is , in my opinion, very beautiful, mate. Sounds almost similar to Mongol, Korean and Japanese. The tones, definitely.

Interesting, so there are still some Manchu presence in Xinjiang, eh?

The Xibes are not considered as Manchus in China,they are consider as a separate people,we respect this,however no one can change the fact,the Xibe language is actually the same as Manchu language(the Mukden dialect),and they are the bannermen just as the Manchus in Qing dynasty,our forefathers as imperial sodiers fought for the emperors
The Emperor sent the Manchus too,their population reached 70000 before the Dungan revolt in Tongzhi regin,but all of them died in Dungan revolt,no one surrender to the musilim rebels.there are a large group of Daurs in Xinjiang too,most of them died in Dungan revolt too(some of them fled to Russian Kazakhstan,then came back to China after the Dungans and Taranchi rebels wiped out by Zuo Zongtang's army),there are 5000 Daurs in Xinjiang today.The Xibes surely are most successful group of bannermen in Xinjiang.
Dungan revolt (1862–77) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tshering22]

My friend, I can empathize with the sentiments regarding foreign forces , but all societies and civilizations are a result of influx of foreigners onto a native region. The transference of ideologies, religion, military doctrine, agricultural and industrial techniques are shared trans-nationally. The Mughals were , indeed, not native to present day India, Pakistan, as they were originally from the Timurid Dynasty , which are Central Asian Mongols. But we as readers of history and arts and culture, we can appreciate their contribution to the development of the Subcontinent. I admire their ability, similar to their Mongol forebears, to get past the notion of xenophobiasm that is very prominent in many Asian civilizations, and to adapt to the subject peoples' culture. We see this with the descendents of Kublai Khan (who ruled China), the descendents of Oda Khan (who ruled the Golden Horde), and we see this with Babur (who ruled most of what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh...).

They did nothing in terms of development. They robbed the gold from Hindu temples, killed and raped women, attacked and plundered, destroyed our Buddhist monasteries and their lazy barbaric emperors sloshed away in big palaces. All they did was make tombs and forts all over just to celebrate their useless conquests.

But, we don't have any grudges against those wusses here at least. They never ruled us and whenever they came to our region, we sent them back in pieces.

The great rulers of India in the 16th, 17th and 18th century were Krishnadevaraya of the Vijayanagar Empire,
Shivaji Maharaj of the Maratha Empire, Lachit Borphukan of the Ahom kingdom, Bajirao of the Maratha Empire
Tipu Sultan of the Mysore kingdom, Maharana Pratap of Mewar and Mahadji Shinde of the Maratha Empire

​

Yes I agree. Also our first founding king Phuntsog Namgyal. He was miles greater than the last king whom the union military displaced.

 

[Aepsilons]

The Xibes are not considered as Manchus in China,they are consider as a separate people,we respect this,however no one can change the fact,the Xibe language is actually the same as Manchu language(the Mukden dialect),and they are the bannermen just as the Manchus in Qing dynasty,our forefathers as imperial sodiers fought for the emperors
The Emperor sent the Manchus too,their population reached 70000 before the Dungan revolt in Tongzhi regin,but all of them died in Dungan revolt,no one surrender to the musilim rebels.there are a large group of Daurs in Xinjiang too,most of them died in Dungan revolt too(some of them fled to Russian Kazakhstan,then came back to China after the Dungans and Taranchi rebels wiped out by Zuo Zongtang's army),there are 5000 Daurs in Xinjiang today.The Xibes surely are most successful group of bannermen in Xinjiang.
Dungan revolt (1862–77) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're right my friend, just read into the Xibes now. What I am also impressed with was the fact that despite the Qing assimilation into overall Chinese culture when they took the Mandate of Heaven, they retained their distinctively Manchu military organization. Especially the use of the 8 Banner system, which defined the Qing Military Machine for centuries to come. I remember when Qianlong Emperor made war with Hsinbyushin in Burma, he implemented the banner systems when trying to march through the thicket. Its interesting to see that the descendents of the bannermen still are able to preserve their identity, culture (language and writing). It's romantic in a way...

They did nothing in terms of development. They robbed the gold from Hindu temples, killed and raped women, attacked and plundered, destroyed our Buddhist monasteries and their lazy barbaric emperors sloshed away in big palaces. All they did was make tombs and forts all over just to celebrate their useless conquests.

But, we don't have any grudges against those wusses here at least. They never ruled us and whenever they came to our region, we sent them back in pieces.



Yes I agree. Also our first founding king Phuntsog Namgyal. He was miles greater than the last king whom the union military displaced.

I empathize with you, my friend, and thank you for sharing your input.

 

[Foot12]

They did nothing in terms of development. They robbed the gold from Hindu temples, killed and raped women, attacked and plundered, destroyed our Buddhist monasteries and their lazy barbaric emperors sloshed away in big palaces. All they did was make tombs and forts all over just to celebrate their useless conquests.

But, we don't have any grudges against those wusses here at least. They never ruled us and whenever they came to our region, we sent them back in pieces.



Yes I agree. Also our first founding king Phuntsog Namgyal. He was miles greater than the last king whom the union military displaced.

You know what is funny. There is not even one statue for the Mughal rulers in India.
But there are statues for Shivaji Maharaj, Lachit Borphukan, Bajirao and Krishnadevaray in India.

 

[Tshering22]

You know what is funny. There is not even one statue for the Mughal rulers in India.
But there are statues for Shivaji Maharaj, Lachit Borphukan, Bajirao and Krishnadevaray in India.

Because statues are not allowed in their ideology remember?

Why would anyone construct a statue of thieves, looters, invaders and uncivilized barbarians? Unless you have the following:

 

[Chak Bamu]

You're right, mate. A lot of people say he was Turkic, but only through spoken language. I agree, Babur was more so Mongol in ethnic beauty. That is why most of t.he early Emperors of the Moghul Empire have very East Asian appearance per se: 1) Babur, 2) Hamuyan, 3) Akbar E Azam etc...


My friend, I can empathize with the sentiments regarding foreign forces , but all societies and civilizations are a result of influx of foreigners onto a native region. The transference of ideologies, religion, military doctrine, agricultural and industrial techniques are shared trans-nationally. The Mughals were , indeed, not native to present day India, Pakistan, as they were originally from the Timurid Dynasty , which are Central Asian Mongols. But we as readers of history and arts and culture, we can appreciate their contribution to the development of the Subcontinent. I admire their ability, similar to their Mongol forebears, to get past the notion of xenophobiasm that is very prominent in many Asian civilizations, and to adapt to the subject peoples' culture. We see this with the descendents of Kublai Khan (who ruled China), the descendents of Oda Khan (who ruled the Golden Horde), and we see this with Babur (who ruled most of what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh...).

It is hard to have a discussion with certain people. Many (not all) people in India are taught that all that is good, noble, or advanced (philosophy, science, arts, etc...) originated in India. They can not contemplate the thought that anything good or noble or beautiful can come from outside of India. There are people like this on this forum. You can get a glimpse of this if you look up 'historian' P. N. Oak: P. N. Oak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This guy is widely considered a nutcase, but for certain right-wing type Hindus he is a holy warrior. He asserted that Christianity is really Krishna-Nitty (Krishna is a major deity from Hindu pantheon of gods) - meaning that Christianity came from Hinduism and got misinterpreted as what it is today. Similarly he also had some sort of story as how really Islam came from Hinduism. There other fabulous claims such as Taj Mahal, (contrary to plain historical, architectural, and common reference evidence) is really a temple of god Shiva. You can see the level and slant of 'scholarship' from this: Tajmahal: The True Story

"Probably there is no one who has been duped at least once in a life time. But can the whole world can be duped? This may seem impossible. But in the matter of indian and world history the world can be duped in many respects for hundreds of years and still continues to be duped. The world famous Tajmahal is a glaring instance. For all the time, money and energy that people over the world spend in visiting the Tajmahal, they are dished out of concoction. Contrary to what visitors are made to believe the Tajmahal is not a Islamic mausoleum but an ancient Shiva Temple known as Tejo Mahalaya which the 5th generation moghul emperorShahjahan commandeered from the then Maharaja of Jaipur. The Tajmahal, should therefore, be viewed as a temple palace and not as a tomb."


You can not tell these people anything they do not wish to know. For them India is the best place in the world and their scholarship is the best in the world and that all people living outside of India were / are barbarians, etc... This is not something new. The great scholar Al-bairuni (the pioneer who calculated Earth's radius and Circumference from measurements) happened to visit India a thousand years ago and lived here for some years. His account is the first detailed account of Hindu religion and scholarship by an outsider. His findings were the same. He observed similar chauvinism. I could go on, but this much should suffice. But I hope you get the idea of Civilizational superiority that finally resulted in Pakistan being carved out of British India.

Just look at @Foot12 who shared pictures of temples and made sure he compared them with Taj Mahal. He keeps coming up with references from Sikh religious texts as though they are history books. There are many others like him who are obsessed. If you notice, many Indians come here only to troll because they think that somehow Pakistanis are responsible for Mughal rule or something like that. One just can not tell them that historians do not share their emotional views. For these people Muslims were either all barbarian killers from West, or local low-cast people who were converted by force. One can not tell them anything otherwise. My ancestors converted to Islam from Sikhism when Mughals had lost control of India, but to them I am a descendent of someone who was converted by force. Go figure.