The future of Muslims in India according to the Hindus

[Naofumi]

The caste system is no where close to India here. There is standard discrimination of the poor, such as servants not drinking from the same glass and bullshit like that. But people are not differentiated on the base of castes here at all. If anything there is more ethnic discrimination than caste discrimination here.

I see all over people mentioning there biradaris, heck there are even threads on biradaris. And moreover, there's resource inequality - landless castes like weavers, kumhars, barbers are still landless and politicians are from high castes. That's too similar to the caste system here.

 

[jamahir]

3) Caste system exists in Pakistan too - Musallis, Bhangis, Kanjars etc are Dalits.

The caste system is no where close to India here. There is standard discrimination of the poor, such as servants not drinking from the same glass and bullshit like that. But people are not differentiated on the base of castes here at all. If anything there is more ethnic discrimination than caste discrimination here.

I have seen posts by Pakistani members try to insult general Indian members using the caste names that Naofumi posted.

There is also the tendency in Pakistan that certain manual labor jobs like sweeping and brick bhatti work is done by non-Muslims.

So there is communal discrimination in Pakistan too.

 

[Cliftonite]

I have seen posts by Pakistani members try to insult general Indian members using the caste names that Naofumi posted.

There is also the tendency in Pakistan that certain manual labor jobs like sweeping and brick bhatti work is done by non-Muslims.

So there is communal discrimination in Pakistan too.

Like I said, remnants of it still remain. But caste identifiers and distinctions do not exist like they do in India. And not certainly not that Ashraf Ajlaf crap Indians quote about Muslims. I've never heard it in Pakistan, only some people saying they're Syeds and marry within Syeds. Yes caste system does show it's ugly head against Christians, a lot of sweeper and manual scavenging work is done ny Christians, moreso in rural Punjab than urban areas, and I wish we could get rid of that. Iqbal Masih is someone you'd like to read about. He was a child activist against this practice.

 

[Naofumi]

Like I said, remnants of it still remain. But caste identifiers and distinctions do not exist like they do in India. And not certainly not that Ashraf Ajlaf crap Indians quote about Muslims. I've never heard it in Pakistan, only some people saying they're Syeds and marry within Syeds. Yes caste system does show it's ugly head against Christians, a lot of sweeper and manual scavenging work is done ny Christians, moreso in rural Punjab than urban areas, and I wish we could get rid of that. Iqbal Masih is someone you'd like to read about. He was a child activist against this practice.

Biradari = Caste, my friend.

And there have been several activist from India too but that didn't vanished the caste system.

 

[Cliftonite]

Biradari = Caste, my friend.

Mere bhai, biradari is not literal caste system. Next you're gonna claim Pathan tribal system is also part of caste system. Yes we do have biradaris, like someone may be a Jakhrani or Jatoi or Panhwar (in the case of Sindh), someone may be a Vohra or Cheema or Chattha (in the case of Punjab), someone may be Yousafzai, Afridi, Mehsud from KPK. But that's a far cry from Ksathriya and Shudra nonsense.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

1) Dalits are not Shudra, they're lower than Shudra. Shudra constitutes farming communities and landless peoples. Dalits are so-called unclean people.

2) You're correct that there can't a country for Dalits like there can't be a country for Muslims. The reasons are the exact same - dispersed population and lack of hold on resources.

3) Caste system exists in Pakistan too - Musallis, Bhangis, Kanjars etc are Dalits.


Your contempt is not needed here.

How to identify a Dalit?
@jamahir @ChennaiDude @Joe Shearer @Soumitra @Secularindian

Vohra

Vohras are Gujratis

 

[Joe Shearer]

Like I said, remnants of it still remain. But caste identifiers and distinctions do not exist like they do in India. And not certainly not that Ashraf Ajlaf crap Indians quote about Muslims. I've never heard it in Pakistan, only some people saying they're Syeds and marry within Syeds. Yes caste system does show it's ugly head against Christians, a lot of sweeper and manual scavenging work is done ny Christians, moreso in rural Punjab than urban areas, and I wish we could get rid of that. Iqbal Masih is someone you'd like to read about. He was a child activist against this practice.

You're getting worked up. Nobody doubts that decent Pakistanis are against all this nonsense. But the point being made was that it still exists.

 

[Cliftonite]

I see all over people mentioning there biradaris, heck there are even threads on biradaris. And moreover, there's resource inequality - landless castes like weavers, kumhars, barbers are still landless and politicians are from high castes. That's too similar to the caste system here.

Certain high standards for Pakistan no? There are landless communities everywhere in the Third World. Even in Saudi Arabia, there are some tribes that exert influence, some that are lower and serve the ruling cases. But trust me, there is hardly discrimination on the basis of which caste you're born into in Pakistan. Discrimination is more between social classes and as I mentioned ethnicities.

 

[ChennaiDude]

How to identify a Dalit?
@jamahir @ChennaiDude @Joe Shearer @Soumitra @Secularindian

Really dont know- I would let the SME's decipher that for you. I personally dont believe that - We as a family have already moved out of this and evolved.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mere bhai, biradari is not literal caste system. Next you're gonna claim Pathan tribal system is also part of caste system. Yes we do have biradaris, like someone may be a Jakhrani or Jatoi or Panhwar (in the case of Sindh), someone may be a Vohra or Cheema or Chattha (in the case of Punjab), someone may be Yousafzai, Afridi, Mehsud from KPK. But that's a far cry from Ksathriya and Shudra nonsense.

Actually there's not much reference to Kshatriya or Sudra in daily life. Only on political platforms, and in election meetings. And, yes, in some backward parts of the countryside.

 

[Naofumi]

Mere bhai, biradari is not literal caste system. Next you're gonna claim Pathan tribal system is also part of caste system. Yes we do have biradaris, like someone may be a Jakhrani or Jatoi or Panhwar (in the case of Sindh), someone may be a Vohra or Cheema or Chattha (in the case of Punjab), someone may be Yousafzai, Afridi, Mehsud from KPK. But that's a far cry from Ksathriya and Shudra nonsense.

Hierarchy - If it exists then it's caste system - Pathans have no hierarchy and banned exogamy like Indics so it can't be called caste. Let me elucidate - the top consists of Pir/Syeds/Shah then the Rajputs then farming communities then your Memon/Khoja/Shaikh/Khatri landless people then unclean-occupation people. Now, all of them are endogamous and won't marry lower into the hierarchy. Also, the resource distribution is by baradari, be it land, politics or anything - its carbon copy of Indian caste.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Hierarchy - If it exists then it's caste system - Pathans have no hierarchy and banned exogamy like Indics so it can't be called caste. Let me elucidate - the top consists of Pir/Syeds/Shah then the Rajputs then farming communities then your Memon/Khoja/Shaikh/Khatri landless people then unclean-occupation people. Now, all of them are endogamous and won't marry lower into the hierarchy. Also, the resource distribution is by baradari, be it land, politics or anything - its carbon copy of Indian caste.

You are wrong my brother

 

[Cliftonite]

Hierarchy - If it exists then it's caste system - Pathans have no hierarchy and banned exogamy like Indics so it can't be called caste. Let me elucidate - the top consists of Pir/Syeds/Shah then the Rajputs then farming communities then your Memon/Khoja/Shaikh/Khatri landless people then unclean-occupation people. Now, all of them are endogamous and won't marry lower into the hierarchy. Also, the resource distribution is by baradari, be it land, politics or anything - its carbon copy of Indian caste.

Sure, let an Indian tell us how it exists in Pakistan.

You are wrong my brother

Yaat let these Indians tell us about our country. They know more than us.

 

[Naofumi]

Only on political platforms, and in election meetings. And, yes, in some backward parts of the countryside.

That too as OBC/SC/ST.

How to identify a Dalit?

Unclean occupations like Mochis, Bhangi, Kanjar, they usually lived on peripheries of villages. The village wells are closed for them. These are general signs.

Certain high standards for Pakistan no? There are landless communities everywhere in the Third World. Even in Saudi Arabia, there are some tribes that exert influence, some that are lower and serve the ruling cases. But trust me, there is hardly discrimination on the basis of which caste you're born into in Pakistan. Discrimination is more between social classes and as I mentioned ethnicities.

Profession based tribes and those "tribes" based resource distribution is the definition of caste system.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Yaat let these Indians tell us about our country. They know more than us.

We can educate them. He is our Muslim Brother