The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hehe, justify the action all you want guys, but the blatant facts are-the Kashmiri's defied boycott calls of the election called by the Hurriyat leaders. And the Hurriyat leaders were ALL united this time! And this was RIGHT after the Amarnath land row when emotions were charged up.

And compare this with yesteryears, when boycott calls were always succesfull when the Hurriyat leaders were all in different camps/factions, and things had been very peacefull for a long while before the elections.

I'll say something has definitely turned a corner in Kashmir. You can decide your reasons for what happened, but its pretty visible to me!

We'll buy all of that when India has the cajones to conduct a plebiscite per its commitments - shouldn't be an issue since 'a corner has been turned'. We have been hearing this BS for a decade now, "Kashmiris don't care for Pakistan, look at the development in IK vs AK' however, despite all of these fanciful claims, no effort to actually put your money where your mouth is and let the Kashmiris decide.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If they are freedom fighters, then should have been fighting the Pakistan tribes men and the PA, who invaded the independent Kashmir. Here they are joining hands the occupying forces to fight the liberators. Hence they are traitors and oppressors.

Actually they supported the Tribesmen - see Owen Bennet Jones's book Pakistan, and Shuja Nawaz's Crossed Swords, for extremely detailed accounts of what transpired.

In fact the reason the Tribesmen went into Kashmir was becasue of the Maharajah's atrocities against the people of kashmir, especially in the Poonch district, which resulted in an uprising that he tried to quell with brutal tactics against civillians. This resulted in thousands of refugees from Kashmri pouring into Pakistan, and along with the Sikh Massacres on th trains bringing Muslims from India to Pakistan, it proved to be the spark that set the fire for the Tribal intervention.

 

[srijeesh]

Every single kashmiri that was asked by the international media if there vote was a vote for india was rejected outright by kashmiris.......all agreed that the elections where nothing more then a vote for getting the water and electric sorted out.

You can fool yourselfs into thinking that the kashmiris love india but the kashmiris reject india.



Pakistan is forfilling its obligations to the peace plan laid out by clinton a decade ago.
Stop cross border movement of fighter.......pakistan has done that.
Elections in IOK take place with no violence....pakistan obliged.

Its your turn to move but now you have the mumbai excuse........it will not last and your going to have to make your move now......otherwise the US will be sending a special envoy

wat someone says before a camera is not important, but where they cast the vote in the secrecy. they have chosen a govt and CM who is as indian as anyone else.

pakistan has not stopped crossborder terrorism,PaOK is used as a launching pad for incursions into indian territory.
if US wants to send special envoy they are free to do so, but that doesnt change india's stand. but that seems more like your hope than US' intention.

 

[Contrarian]

We'll buy all of that when India has the cajones to conduct a plebiscite per its commitments - shouldn't be an issue since 'a corner has been turned'. We have been hearing this BS for a decade now, "Kashmiris don't care for Pakistan, look at the development in IK vs AK' however, despite all of these fanciful claims, no effort to actually put your money where your mouth is and let the Kashmiris decide.

Sorry, no plebicite, not now not ever. Regardless of whether the corner has been turned or whether its back to the beginning. There will never be a plebicite. Im not a spokesman for GoI-but even you can bet that what i say will happen-or to be more precise, never happen.

Yet, i cant but smile on the issue. Regardless of everything, Kashmiri's defied the call of a united Hurriyat-which according to Pakistan is the TRUEST representative of Kashmiri's! That has to count for something Agno!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

[

QUOTE=AgNoStIc MuSliM;297796]The vast majority of the Kashmirir camps in Pakistan are not 'terrorist camps', they are Freedom Fighters, and the right to fight an occupation is recognized by the world community, so long as innocents are not targeted. When groups like LeT have stepped completely out of line like they allegedly did in Mumbai, we acted against them and shut down their camps. However attacks on Indian occupation forces are not 'terrorism' and completely legitemate, since India is in occupation of the territory in violation of bilateral and international commitments.


Don't justify terror. LeT was no holy soul, before 26/11.They have been involved in all major terror incidents in India in the last decade.What makes you think that sending is 4-5 terrorists is gonna make India give up Kashmir?.
When was the last time IA was directly attacked by any of your "freedom fighters"?And don't mention international commitments to India, when you are still following the policy of "bleeding India by a thousand cuts".

I am not justifying terror, if I was I would be arguing in favor of not banning the LeT and not taking down their camps - I am however arguing in favor of the legitemate right of a people to struggle against occupation and occupation forces.

As for the rest of the terrorism in India, that is all your own problem, nothing to do with us or the legitimatize freedom movement.

By the way, we do not allow duplicate ID's Dave007, quit trolling.

 

[srijeesh]

The vast majority of the Kashmirir camps in Pakistan are not 'terrorist camps', they are Freedom Fighters, and the right to fight an occupation is recognized by the world community, so long as innocents are not targeted. When groups like LeT have stepped completely out of line like they allegedly did in Mumbai, we acted against them and shut down their camps. However attacks on Indian occupation forces are not 'terrorism' and completely legitemate, since India is in occupation of the territory in violation of bilateral and international commitments.

On those commitments, call it a plebiscite - the fact is that India, Pakistan and the British agreed in the Instrument of Partition that any disputed accession would be resolved through a plebisicte, and this was explicitly stated in the case of the Kashmir accession. This constitutes a bilateral agreement with Pakistan (or trilateral if you include the British). The international commitments and obligations came about when India accepted in the UNSC, multiple times, the fact that Kashmir was both disputed and to be resolved via a referendum.

India's PM Nehru made several public statements to this effect that he would honor these commitments and a plebiscite would be held, unfortunately, Pakistan believed him and the result was apparent a few years later, when Nehru completely back stabbed Pakistan and unilaterally violated those commitments.

The UNSC resolutions and those commitments are just as valid today, becasue the reality of the situation is that the region remains disputed and under Indian occupation, and to resolve that situation the only fair way is to conduct a plebisicte, in some shape or form.

you are trying to justify terrorists by justifying the supposed 'cause'. this is just hogwash.


history.

history.

UN resolutions are no longer relevent. india doesnt share pak's view that kashmir is disputed. anyway, UN resolutions are not binding.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sorry, no plebicite, not now not ever. Regardless of whether the corner has been turned or whether its back to the beginning. There will never be a plebicite. Im not a spokesman for GoI-but even you can bet that what i say will happen-or to be more precise, never happen.

Yet, i cant but smile on the issue. Regardless of everything, Kashmiri's defied the call of a united Hurriyat-which according to Pakistan is the TRUEST representative of Kashmiri's! That has to count for something Agno!

Not at all - since they also expressed the same desire for Freedom simultaneously.

You know their loyalties do not lie with India, that is the sole reason for India violating her bilateral and international commitments, otherwise India woudl love to hold a plebiscite and throw the result in Pakistan's face, a complete negation of Pakistan's position.

That India would rather do something illegal and immoral is reflective of that knowledge, regardless of how much you try and paint the Kashmiris as 'accepting India'.

You and most Indians know the reality of Kashmiri sentiment Malay, regardless of how much you try and obfuscate,

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

you are trying to justify terrorists by justifying the supposed 'cause'. this is just hogwash.


history.

history.

UN resolutions are no longer relevent. india doesnt share pak's view that kashmir is disputed. anyway, UN resolutions are not binding.

You havn't answered a single point I made, or refuted it, just ranted with one liners.

Keep this up and you will get banned for trolling.

If you cannot respond with facts and supporting arguments, then just don't post.

 

[Contrarian]

Not at all - since they also expressed the same desire for Freedom simultaneously.

You know their loyalties do not lie with India, that is the sole reason for India violating her bilateral and international commitments, otherwise India woudl love to hold a plebiscite and throw the result in Pakistan's face, a complete negation of Pakistan's position.

That India would rather do something illegal and immoral is reflective of that knowledge, regardless of how much you try and paint the Kashmiris as 'accepting India'.

You and most Indians know the reality of Kashmiri sentiment Malay, regardless of how much you try and obfuscate,

Just tell me, WHERE have i ever denied the fact that most Kashmiri's would not vote for India.

I have ALWAYS said, that the majority would definitely vote against India. But i have ALSO said, that with time, the percentage of such people will decrease and keep decreasing as long as India is able to provide the right climate. And it is what India is trying.

 

[srijeesh]

You havn't answered a single point I made, or refuted it, just ranted with one liners.

Keep this up and you will get banned for trolling.

If you cannot respond with facts and supporting arguments, then just don't post.

wat was there to be refuted? when you went on and on with narrating the past events, then I just reminded that it was history. nothing to refute.

when you said that terrorists in kashmir are 'freedom fighters', I thought you were justifying their acts just because they are acting with an excuse.

when you mentioned that UN resolutions are valid, I thought they were no longer relevent and said the same. AFAIK, UN resolutions on kashmir are not binding. if I am wrong, do correct me, but threatening ban is not the right approach.

 

[dabong1]

Don't justify terror. LeT was no holy soul, before 26/11.They have been involved in all major terror incidents in India in the last decade.]".

Did you guys not blame LeT for all the bombing that where done by your own soldiers?
Lt Col Shrikant Purohit, who was arrested in connection with the Malegaon blast, was also involved with 2007 Samjhauta blast.....and how many other blasts was he involved in?

What makes you think that sending is 4-5 terrorists is gonna make India give up Kashmir?.]".

A kashmiri version of hezbollah-hamas is what the near future holds if the indians dont get out of kashmir.......a few terrorist bought your major city to its knees,what would a proper attack on the india security-govt forces do?
Pakistan did not send the terrorist to attack mumbai!

When was the last time IA was directly attacked by any of your "freedom fighters"?And don't mention international commitments to India, when you are still following the policy of "bleeding India by a thousand cuts".

If we really wanted to bleed india by a thousand cuts we would be arming every freedom movement in india.
We would use the "knock out punch" policy rather then a "thousand cuts" if we wanted to dfeat india.

 

[Contrarian]

The ATS has said that he was NOT involved in the Samjhauta blast. The earlier statement was that Purohit MIGHT be involved, that they would investigate that aspect. They have since cleared that he was NOT.

You read the accusations, and then conveniently forget if there has been a clarification.

 

[srijeesh]

If we really wanted to bleed india by a thousand cuts we would be arming every freedom movement in india.
We would use the "knock out punch" policy rather then a "thousand cuts" if we wanted to dfeat india.

why do you assume that this is not happening already. an ULFA member who was caught revealed that ULFA had close relation with ISI and they were supplied weapons by the spy agency.

 

[dabong1]

wat someone says before a camera is not important, but where they cast the vote in the secrecy. they have chosen a govt and CM who is as indian as anyone else..

If your that sure of kashmiris love for india why not have a UN vote....

pakistan has not stopped crossborder terrorism,PaOK is used as a launching pad for incursions into indian territory. .

Your own govt says that LoC movement is down to a trickle.
You seem to forget that the kashmiris see no border...its a indian invention.

if US wants to send special envoy they are free to do so, but that doesnt change india's stand. but that seems more like your hope than US' intention.

We will see in the near future who is correct

 

[dabong1]

why do you assume that this is not happening already. an ULFA member who was caught revealed that ULFA had close relation with ISI and they were supplied weapons by the spy agency.

Well done ISI