The Future of Air Combat Aerial Warfare Technology that will rule the Sky

[Penguin]

Serial numbers of B2s always begin with AV. Spirit of Missouri was AV-8 88-0329. And no, it is not about F-117. B-2 that crashed in Bosnia 15 km from the Serbian border.
Claims from retired general Bozidar Delic:"One American B-2A Spirit strategic stealth bomber (probably AV-8 88-0329 "Spirit of Missouri") was shot down on the 20th of May 1999 over Surcin at 01:00 local time. The formation was detected by long-wave early-warning radars.
The bombers reduced altitude and attacked its targets in Belgrade. One of the B-2As was hit by a SAM in the area of the cockpit and crashed shortly after. Crew was killed in the crash according to eyewitnesses.

Verbatim?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140706114122AAtYlxO

There is a discussion of this topic on Armchair general,
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62405

of which I find the following post rather interesting:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/foru...d3967cf7d8ab0033df4d0410&p=893614&postcount=4

It reads:

Now, Considering that I'm able to find photos of all but two produced B-2 bombers on Airliners.net that have been taken after May 1999, I doubt the story has much (If any) truth to it.

Here:
Spirit of America, 82-1066, Taken 2005.
Spirit of Arizona, 82-1067, Taken 2007.
Spirit of New York, 82-1068, Taken in 2006.
Spirit of Indiana, 82-1069, Taken 2005.
Spirit of Ohio, 82-1070, Taken 2008.
Spirit of Mississippi, 82-1071, Taken 2001.
Spirit of Texas, 88-0328, No photo on Airliners.net but a photo from 2001 was found on a Japanese website.
Spirit of Missouri, 88-0329, Taken 2007.
Spirit of California, 88-0330, Taken 2006
Spirit of South Carolina, 88-0331, Taken 2006
Spirit of Washington, 88-0332, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Kansas, 89-0127, Taken 2006.
Spirit of Nebraska, 89-0128, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Georgia, 89-0129, I was unable to find a photo newer then 1997 but according to Target Lock's B-2 Squadron Service page, It took part in 2003's "Coronet Dragon 49".
Spirit of Alaska, 90-0040, Taken 2000.
Spirit of Hawaii, 90-0041, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Florida, 92-0700, Taken 2003.
Spirit of Oklahoma, 93-1085, Taken 2006.
Spirit of Kitty Hawk, 93-1086, Taken 2004.
Spirit of Pennsylvania, 93-1087, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Louisiana, 93-1088, Taken 2007.

http://usairforc.blogspot.nl/

Manufacturer: Northrop Grumman
First flight: 17 July 1989
Introduction: April 1997
Produced: 1988-2000
Number built: 21
Program cost: $44.75 billion (through 2004)
Unit cost: $737 million (1997 approx. flyaway cost)

AV-1 – 82-1066 – Spirit of America – 14 July 2000
AV-2 – 82-1067 – Spirit of Arizona – 4 December 1997
AV-3 – 82-1068 – Spirit of New York – 10 October 1997
AV-4 – 82-1069 – Spirit of Indiana – 22 May 1999
AV-5 – 82-1070 – Spirit of Ohio – 18 July 1997
AV-6 – 82-1071 – Spirit of Mississippi – 23 May 1997
AV-7 – 88-0328 – Spirit of Texas – 21 August 1994
AV-8 – 88-0329 – Spirit of Missouri – 31 March 1994
AV-9 – 88-0330 – Spirit of California – 17 August 1994
AV-10 – 88-0331 – Spirit of South Carolina – 30 December 1994
AV-11 – 88-0332 – Spirit of Washington – 29 October 1994
AV-13 – 89-0128 – Spirit of Nebraska – 28 June 1995
AV-14 – 89-0129 – Spirit of Georgia – 14 November 1995
AV-15 – 90-0040 – Spirit of Alaska – 24 January 1996
AV-16 – 90-0041 – Spirit of Hawaii – 10 January 1996
AV-17 – 92-0700 – Spirit of Florida – 3 July 1996
AV-18 – 93-1085 – Spirit of Oklahoma – 15 May 1996
AV-19 – 93-1086 – Spirit of Kitty Hawk – 30 August 1996
AV-20 – 93-1087 – Spirit of Pennsylvania – 5 August 1997
AV-21 – 93-1088 – Spirit of Louisiana – 10 November 1997

AV-12 – 89-0127 – Spirit of Kansas – Crashed 23 February 2008
http://usairforc.blogspot.nl/

On February 17th 1995 the sixth operational B-2, 89-0127, landed at Whiteman for the first time. 89-0127 was named the "Spirit of Kansas" on May 13th 1995 in a ceremony held at McConnell AFB.
On February 23rd 2008 at 10:45am local time, B-2 89-0127 "Spirit of Kansas" crashed shortly after taking off from Andersen AFB, Guam. The aircraft rolled uncontrollably to the right before crashing between the ramp and the taxiway. Both pilots, aircraft commander Capt. Justin Grieve and pilot Maj. Ryan Link, managed to eject successfully after the aircraft's left wing had scraped the ground. Spirit of Kansas had accumulated 5176 flight hours in 1036 sorties at the time of the crash.
http://www.targetlock.org.uk/b-2/service.html

• On February 11th-12th 1999 the Spirits of "South Carolina" and "Nebraska" flew a Global Power mission from Whiteman to the United Kingdom and back.
• Col Tony Imondi and Maj Darrell Davis flew B-2 82-1067 "Spirit of Arizona" on a Global Power mission to RAF Fairford on March 10th 1999. The aircraft arrived at 09:55 local time after a 10½-hour flight and departed, with Lt Col Will Gildner and Maj Terry Sunnarborg at the controls, at 11:00. The aircraft was escorted by 48th Fighter Wing F-15s while in UK airspace.
• Planning for the B-2's involvement in the NATO Operation "Allied Force" against Serbia began several weeks in advance of the bomber's first mission. The targets which were to be attacked had already been identified and had been programmed into the B-2 simulator, allowing pilots to begin practising their missions.
• By March 20th 1999 it appears that B-2 crews had received the GPS co-ordinates necessary for the GAM weapons to locate and destroy their targets. They had also received imagery of the target areas, which they could check against the imagery returned by aircraft's radar system.
• The B-2 made its combat debut in the early hours of March 24th 1999, when two aircraft attacked Serbian targets. Each aircraft dropped 16 2000lb GPS-Aided Munitions after a 16-hour flight from Whiteman. The B-2s were the first manned combat aircraft in action following the initial cruise missile strikes. It is believed that their first targets were components of the Serbian air defence system.
• During the operations against Serbia, the B-2s generally did not operate with other assets as part of a strike package, but instead performed their missions either as singletons or in pairs outside the NATO command structure (called Operation "Noble Anvil"), although they were included in 34 of 53 Air Tasking Orders.
• By April 1st 1999 the USAF had used up 224 GAMs, more than a third of its total stocks. This shows that 14 individual aircraft sorties had been flown by this point.
• Between April 5th and 12th 1999 a further 160 GAMs had been expended. On these occasions the B-2s were mostly performing two-ship missions.
• In a briefing to journalists on May 5th 1999, Brig Gen Leroy Barnidge Jr., Commander of the 509th Bomb Wing, revealed that since the start of Operation "Allied Force" B-2s had dropped more than 1 million pounds of ordnance on targets in Serbia. Since each B-2 can carry up to 32000lb of ordnance (16 GAMs), this means that at least 32 missions had been flown up to May 5th.
• The General said: "A B-2 is equivalent to eight F-117s. We can take this thing [B-2] thousands of miles; we can go into very lethal environments, and we can put bombs exactly where we want them. Then we bring the guys home, turn the jets and do it again. That's not a bad return on your investment."
• On May 7th 1999 three GAMs dropped by a B-2 hit the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, which caused a diplomatic incident. This building was targetted based on an out-of-date map, which showed it as a Serbian government facility.
• The last B-2 mission in support of Operation "Allied Force" was flown on May 21st 1999.
• Six B-2s were used to fly combat missions in "Allied Force". These aircraft flew 49 missions, representing 1% of all allied missions flown, but they accounted for about 11% of total bombs dropped during the campaign (about 700 GAMs and four GBU-37s, total weight 1.3 million lb). Target destruction rate was assessed to be 87%. Fifty-one of the 53 pilots on strength with the 509th flew at least one combat mission over Serbia.

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/b-2/service.html

Northrop Grumman B-2A AV-8 s/n 88-0329 "Spirit of Missouri" 13th Bomb Squadron "Grim Reapers" WM Whiteman AFB MO On final @ Red Flag 13-3, Nellis AFB, NV

Taken on February 25, 2013
https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwoodbarry/8522748644

 

[Penguin]

While there is on the one hand this interview indicating Sa-3 was used to shoot down F117

These Chinese claim it was AAA not SAM. (*2:25 and on) and tracked a long time

Clearly the first interview is more believable. But it goes to show how people BS about a topic.

Here, a loit of claims, but little if any evidence (and what there supposedly is, is weak and indirect at best)

 

[Ultima Thule]

Some good material to study!

Where from some crapy newspaper articles or some crapy aviation magzines? go believe that crapy stuff

 

[GiG]

Verbatim?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140706114122AAtYlxO

There is a discussion of this topic on Armchair general,
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62405

of which I find the following post rather interesting:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/foru...d3967cf7d8ab0033df4d0410&p=893614&postcount=4

It reads:

Now, Considering that I'm able to find photos of all but two produced B-2 bombers on Airliners.net that have been taken after May 1999, I doubt the story has much (If any) truth to it.

Here:
Spirit of America, 82-1066, Taken 2005.
Spirit of Arizona, 82-1067, Taken 2007.
Spirit of New York, 82-1068, Taken in 2006.
Spirit of Indiana, 82-1069, Taken 2005.
Spirit of Ohio, 82-1070, Taken 2008.
Spirit of Mississippi, 82-1071, Taken 2001.
Spirit of Texas, 88-0328, No photo on Airliners.net but a photo from 2001 was found on a Japanese website.
Spirit of Missouri, 88-0329, Taken 2007.
Spirit of California, 88-0330, Taken 2006
Spirit of South Carolina, 88-0331, Taken 2006
Spirit of Washington, 88-0332, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Kansas, 89-0127, Taken 2006.
Spirit of Nebraska, 89-0128, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Georgia, 89-0129, I was unable to find a photo newer then 1997 but according to Target Lock's B-2 Squadron Service page, It took part in 2003's "Coronet Dragon 49".
Spirit of Alaska, 90-0040, Taken 2000.
Spirit of Hawaii, 90-0041, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Florida, 92-0700, Taken 2003.
Spirit of Oklahoma, 93-1085, Taken 2006.
Spirit of Kitty Hawk, 93-1086, Taken 2004.
Spirit of Pennsylvania, 93-1087, Taken 2007.
Spirit of Louisiana, 93-1088, Taken 2007.

http://usairforc.blogspot.nl/

Manufacturer: Northrop Grumman
First flight: 17 July 1989
Introduction: April 1997
Produced: 1988-2000
Number built: 21
Program cost: $44.75 billion (through 2004)
Unit cost: $737 million (1997 approx. flyaway cost)

AV-1 – 82-1066 – Spirit of America – 14 July 2000
AV-2 – 82-1067 – Spirit of Arizona – 4 December 1997
AV-3 – 82-1068 – Spirit of New York – 10 October 1997
AV-4 – 82-1069 – Spirit of Indiana – 22 May 1999
AV-5 – 82-1070 – Spirit of Ohio – 18 July 1997
AV-6 – 82-1071 – Spirit of Mississippi – 23 May 1997
AV-7 – 88-0328 – Spirit of Texas – 21 August 1994
AV-8 – 88-0329 – Spirit of Missouri – 31 March 1994
AV-9 – 88-0330 – Spirit of California – 17 August 1994
AV-10 – 88-0331 – Spirit of South Carolina – 30 December 1994
AV-11 – 88-0332 – Spirit of Washington – 29 October 1994
AV-13 – 89-0128 – Spirit of Nebraska – 28 June 1995
AV-14 – 89-0129 – Spirit of Georgia – 14 November 1995
AV-15 – 90-0040 – Spirit of Alaska – 24 January 1996
AV-16 – 90-0041 – Spirit of Hawaii – 10 January 1996
AV-17 – 92-0700 – Spirit of Florida – 3 July 1996
AV-18 – 93-1085 – Spirit of Oklahoma – 15 May 1996
AV-19 – 93-1086 – Spirit of Kitty Hawk – 30 August 1996
AV-20 – 93-1087 – Spirit of Pennsylvania – 5 August 1997
AV-21 – 93-1088 – Spirit of Louisiana – 10 November 1997

AV-12 – 89-0127 – Spirit of Kansas – Crashed 23 February 2008
http://usairforc.blogspot.nl/

On February 17th 1995 the sixth operational B-2, 89-0127, landed at Whiteman for the first time. 89-0127 was named the "Spirit of Kansas" on May 13th 1995 in a ceremony held at McConnell AFB.
On February 23rd 2008 at 10:45am local time, B-2 89-0127 "Spirit of Kansas" crashed shortly after taking off from Andersen AFB, Guam. The aircraft rolled uncontrollably to the right before crashing between the ramp and the taxiway. Both pilots, aircraft commander Capt. Justin Grieve and pilot Maj. Ryan Link, managed to eject successfully after the aircraft's left wing had scraped the ground. Spirit of Kansas had accumulated 5176 flight hours in 1036 sorties at the time of the crash.
http://www.targetlock.org.uk/b-2/service.html

• On February 11th-12th 1999 the Spirits of "South Carolina" and "Nebraska" flew a Global Power mission from Whiteman to the United Kingdom and back.
• Col Tony Imondi and Maj Darrell Davis flew B-2 82-1067 "Spirit of Arizona" on a Global Power mission to RAF Fairford on March 10th 1999. The aircraft arrived at 09:55 local time after a 10½-hour flight and departed, with Lt Col Will Gildner and Maj Terry Sunnarborg at the controls, at 11:00. The aircraft was escorted by 48th Fighter Wing F-15s while in UK airspace.
• Planning for the B-2's involvement in the NATO Operation "Allied Force" against Serbia began several weeks in advance of the bomber's first mission. The targets which were to be attacked had already been identified and had been programmed into the B-2 simulator, allowing pilots to begin practising their missions.
• By March 20th 1999 it appears that B-2 crews had received the GPS co-ordinates necessary for the GAM weapons to locate and destroy their targets. They had also received imagery of the target areas, which they could check against the imagery returned by aircraft's radar system.
• The B-2 made its combat debut in the early hours of March 24th 1999, when two aircraft attacked Serbian targets. Each aircraft dropped 16 2000lb GPS-Aided Munitions after a 16-hour flight from Whiteman. The B-2s were the first manned combat aircraft in action following the initial cruise missile strikes. It is believed that their first targets were components of the Serbian air defence system.
• During the operations against Serbia, the B-2s generally did not operate with other assets as part of a strike package, but instead performed their missions either as singletons or in pairs outside the NATO command structure (called Operation "Noble Anvil"), although they were included in 34 of 53 Air Tasking Orders.
• By April 1st 1999 the USAF had used up 224 GAMs, more than a third of its total stocks. This shows that 14 individual aircraft sorties had been flown by this point.
• Between April 5th and 12th 1999 a further 160 GAMs had been expended. On these occasions the B-2s were mostly performing two-ship missions.
• In a briefing to journalists on May 5th 1999, Brig Gen Leroy Barnidge Jr., Commander of the 509th Bomb Wing, revealed that since the start of Operation "Allied Force" B-2s had dropped more than 1 million pounds of ordnance on targets in Serbia. Since each B-2 can carry up to 32000lb of ordnance (16 GAMs), this means that at least 32 missions had been flown up to May 5th.
• The General said: "A B-2 is equivalent to eight F-117s. We can take this thing [B-2] thousands of miles; we can go into very lethal environments, and we can put bombs exactly where we want them. Then we bring the guys home, turn the jets and do it again. That's not a bad return on your investment."
• On May 7th 1999 three GAMs dropped by a B-2 hit the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, which caused a diplomatic incident. This building was targetted based on an out-of-date map, which showed it as a Serbian government facility.
• The last B-2 mission in support of Operation "Allied Force" was flown on May 21st 1999.
• Six B-2s were used to fly combat missions in "Allied Force". These aircraft flew 49 missions, representing 1% of all allied missions flown, but they accounted for about 11% of total bombs dropped during the campaign (about 700 GAMs and four GBU-37s, total weight 1.3 million lb). Target destruction rate was assessed to be 87%. Fifty-one of the 53 pilots on strength with the 509th flew at least one combat mission over Serbia.

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/b-2/service.html

Northrop Grumman B-2A AV-8 s/n 88-0329 "Spirit of Missouri" 13th Bomb Squadron "Grim Reapers" WM Whiteman AFB MO On final @ Red Flag 13-3, Nellis AFB, NV

Taken on February 25, 2013
https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwoodbarry/8522748644

Yes Verbatim
where there's smoke there's fire

This was the Russian foreign military review of the situation

"The Foreign Military Review writes: "Despite the fact that American aircraft dominated NATO operations, they weren't the only aircraft shot down by Yugoslav air defenses. Among the destroyed aircraft were five German "Tornadoes," several British "Harriers'" two French "Mirages," Belgian, Dutch, and Canadian aircraft. On June 7 the USAF lost a B-52 strategic bomber, while on May 20 a B-2A "Spirit" was shot down."
Source:http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins2000/tim2000-5-1.html
Most of such losses remain classified for a long time and extensive cover ups are made to disguise reality
we know the soviet secrets like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe
remain secret until soviet union break down

Where from some crapy newspaper articles or some crapy aviation magzines? go believe that crapy stuff

Every thing is crap go believe CNN,FOX,BBC

 

[Ultima Thule]

Every thing is crap go believe CNN,FOX,BBC

Yes these news channels are all crap they knows nothing about F-35 and gives their specific opinions which they like are they expert on F-35? the answer is BIG NO

 

[Penguin]

This was the Russian foreign military review of the situation

"The Foreign Military Review writes: "Despite the fact that American aircraft dominated NATO operations, they weren't the only aircraft shot down by Yugoslav air defenses. Among the destroyed aircraft were five German "Tornadoes," several British "Harriers'" two French "Mirages," Belgian, Dutch, and Canadian aircraft. On June 7 the USAF lost a B-52 strategic bomber, while on May 20 a B-2A "Spirit" was shot down."
Source:http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins2000/tim2000-5-1.html
Most of such losses remain classified for a long time and extensive cover ups are made to disguise reality

Sorry, but we've not been missing any aircraft and/or pilot in the Netherlands.

Yugoslav army officials had and have every reason to deliberately inflate their counts, at least as much as (if not more than) NATO would have to deflate theirs. All data should therefore be treated with caution. Still, eye withness accounts are notoriously unreliable though, as forensic science informs us. Besides, it would make the Yugoslav official look much more impotent if they acknowledged they hadn't shot down much at all, than it would have NATO look so if they acknowledge the alledged number of shoot downs.

If true "Since both Moscow and Washington know that if Russia were to release a proof (electronic surveillance recordings, for example) which back up its claims about the NATO losses, this would have a devastating effect on NATO/NWO. " then I don't see why Russia on the one hand would 'spare' NATO/NWO by not releasing proof on the one hand, yet on the other make statements without giving proof, and thus not spare NATO/NWO. IMHO this is a dead give away of propaganda BS. If you have proof, you either use it or you don't (in which case you keep quiet and use what you are keeping quiet for leverage).

As for that source. it does refer to the Foreign Military Review, but does not provide enough information on which issue. It is therefore unverifiable, even to one who has access to FMR.

The restricted GRU military journal, the russian-language monthly journal ZARUBEZHNOYE VOYENNOYE OBOZRENIYE published in Moscow by the Ministry of Defense (a.k.a. Foreign Military Review), became available in the West in the late 1970s. It deals exclusively with Soviet views of foreign military developments and capabilities.

Without reference to a specific issue (volume, issue number, year and pages), anyone can claim FMR wrote X or Y, and it would take a great deal of time to check if this was actually the case. Thus far, I've found a lot of Venik repeats but never a proper source ref. or anyone actually having attempted to check it.

See here for example of proper refs to FMR
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...c+&cd=11&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl&client=firefox-b

 

[GiG]

Sorry, but we've not missing any aircraft and/or pilot in the Netherlands

The only way to prove that no aircraft is missing was to show them publicly all together which didn't happens at that time when the claim is made a simple paint job can hide a big military secret very easily.

Yes these news channels are all crap they knows nothing about F-35 and gives their specific opinions which they like are they expert on F-35? the answer is BIG NO

The man behind the F 16 program have very nice words for f 35

if this is not expert opinion the what is ?

 

[Penguin]

The only way to prove that no aircraft is missing was to show them publicly all together which didn't happens at that time when the claim is made a simple paint job can hide a big military secret very easily.

On those who make claims lies the burdon of proof.

 

[GiG]

On those who make claims lies the burdon of proof.

the point is that stealth was proved to be scam

 

[Penguin]

the point is that stealth was proved to be scam

Well, no. No one claimed stealth means invisibility. It just makes it harder to detect and forces an opponent to invest in additional systems to not only track non-stealth but also stealth airframes. As the F117 shoot down story shows, that only worked because there was intel on the raid so AD could ambush. They could still only light up 20 seconds. Without the intel, they could never had lit up in the right place at the right time. Clearly, in 1999, stealth was already 25 years old. By today, at another 17 years. So after 42 year, it should be not surprising that today there are systems that can deal with detecting stealth. That still doesn't make it useless. For example, we've been discussing ground radars but not airborne radars, esp. AEW and fighter radars.

 

[GiG]

Well, no. No one claimed stealth means invisibility. It just makes it harder to detect and forces an opponent to invest in additional systems to not only track non-stealth but also stealth airframes. As the F117 shoot down story shows, that only worked because there was intel on the raid so AD could ambush. They could still only light up 20 seconds. Without the intel, they could never had lit up in the right place at the right time. Clearly, in 1999, stealth was already 25 years old. By today, at another 17 years. So after 42 year, it should be not surprising that today there are systems that can deal with detecting stealth. That still doesn't make it useless. For example, we've been discussing ground radars but not airborne radars, esp. AEW and fighter radars.

But still world is fooled by US marketing/Propaganda

 

[Penguin]

The only way to prove that no aircraft is missing was to show them publicly all together which didn't happens at that time when the claim is made a simple paint job can hide a big military secret very easily.

On those who make claims lies the burdon of proof.

We acquired 213 F-16s, for details including serials see http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article8.html
Between 1997 and 2003 we modernized 138 (MLU)
No more than 20 Dutch F-16 participated in Allied Force, including some of the first MLU's aircraft.

In 2003, the Dutch government decided to cut the F-16 force by 25%. From 2004 onwards, The Netherlands would provide 108 F-16s to NATO, with 90 being available for operational deployments. As many as 36 F-16s would be sold

Some surplus aircraft have indeed been sold to Jordan and Chile.

Accoding to Sipri we exported:
18 F-16C to Chile (2006-2007)
18 F-16C to Chile (2010-2011)
6 F-16C to Jordan (2009)
15 F-16C to Jordan (2016-2017)

This is clearly wrong as far as the type (F16C) is concerned. We sold A/Bs. But these numbers match those of f-16.net
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article11.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article9.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article8.html

We lost 37 due to peacetime attrition (accidents etc). 213-37=176
http://www.f-16.net/fleet-reports_article3.html
We sold 57 so 176-57=119
We operate 61 so 119-61
We still store 58 which are mainly used for spare parts, while a number are kept for future sale.
http://vervanging-f16.rekenkamer.nl/nl/over-de-f-16/afstoten-f-16s

But still world is fooled by US marketing/Propaganda

No, it isn't.

If stealth is a scam and useless, why is the US still using it? See e.g. the JSOW-ER and the new LRASM antiship missiles. And why its allies e.g. Kongsberg NSM antiship missile or the French Storm Shadow/SCALP EG. See also the shape of UCAVs X-45 and X-47, BAE Taranis , Dassault Neuron etc.

The only way to prove that no aircraft is missing was to show them publicly all together which didn't happens at that time when the claim is made a simple paint job can hide a big military secret very easily.

This also shows you have limited insight into how air forces actually manage their fleet (see earlier remarks on attrition, re-sales, force reduction, using older or damaged airframes for spare parts etc)

 

[GiG]

On those who make claims lies the burdon of proof.

We acquired 213 F-16s, for details including serials see http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article8.html
Between 1997 and 2003 we modernized 138 (MLU)
No more than 20 Dutch F-16 participated in Allied Force, including some of the first MLU's aircraft.

In 2003, the Dutch government decided to cut the F-16 force by 25%. From 2004 onwards, The Netherlands would provide 108 F-16s to NATO, with 90 being available for operational deployments. As many as 36 F-16s would be sold

Some surplus aircraft have indeed been sold to Jordan and Chile.

Accoding to Sipri we exported:
18 F-16C to Chile (2006-2007)
18 F-16C to Chile (2010-2011)
6 F-16C to Jordan (2009)
15 F-16C to Jordan (2016-2017)

This is clearly wrong as far as the type (F16C) is concerned. We sold A/Bs. But these numbers match those of f-16.net
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article11.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article9.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article8.html

We lost 37 due to peacetime attrition (accidents etc). 213-37=176
http://www.f-16.net/fleet-reports_article3.html
We sold 57 so 176-57=119
We operate 61 so 119-61
We still store 58 which are mainly used for spare parts, while a number are kept for future sale.
http://vervanging-f16.rekenkamer.nl/nl/over-de-f-16/afstoten-f-16s


No, it isn't.

If stealth is a scam and useless, why is the US still using it? See e.g. the JSOW-ER and the new LRASM antiship missiles. And why its allies e.g. Kongsberg NSM antiship missile or the French Storm Shadow/SCALP EG. See also the shape of UCAVs X-45 and X-47, BAE Taranis , Dassault Neuron etc.


This also shows you have limited insight into how air forces actually manage their fleet (see earlier remarks on attrition, re-sales, force reduction, using older or damaged airframes for spare parts etc)

where did f-16 come from
The point is for B-2 i.e 21 built 1 crashed officially 1 the serbs claims to be shot down
So by serbs claims there should be 19 B-2
and By US claims there should be 20 B-2

Why the US Dont Fly showcased them all publicly

Its a regular practice in the force. Pakistan showcased all its Mirages in 1971 to bust Indian Claim

stealth is for fooling Russians and Chines to invest in useless technologies
Development of F-18 Growler by the US proves that US don't even relay on stealth
The real strengths of US lies in its Cyber Command,HARP ,Kinetic Orbital Bombardment and other things which we don't know

And Finally when an asset which worth 2 billion$ to build each billions $ more to maintain strategic bomber only a non professional can think for its "attrition, re-sales, force reduction, using older or damaged airframes for spare parts"

still thinking where did the Norwegian f 16 comes in the discussion

 

[Penguin]

where did f-16 come from

From your alledged quote of the Foreign Military review.

The point is for B-2 i.e 21 built 1 crashed officially 1 the serbs claims to be shot down
So by serbs claims there should be 19 B-2
and By US claims there should be 20 B-2

The point is that a particular B-2A was claimed to have been shot down. And this claim doesn't hold.

Why the US Dont Fly showcased them all publicly

Why would the US do so? What would it stand to gain?

What do you think this costs? Flying the B-2 fleet for an hour would cost 2.5 million USD
"The B-2 may cost up to $135,000 per flight hour to operate in 2010, which is about twice that of the B-52 and B-1"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_B-2_Spirit#Program_costs_and_procurement

Its a regular practice in the force. Pakistan showcased all its Mirages in 1971 to bust Indian Claim

Why do you expect US to behave like Pakistan or India?
Do give some ref so I can verify this claim.

stealth is for fooling Russians and Chines to invest in useless technologies

Whatever.

Development of F-18 Growler by the US proves that US don't even relay on stealth
The real strengths of US lies in its Cyber Command,HARP ,Kinetic Orbital Bombardment and other things which we don't know

I never said these were not important or that stealth was more important. But you are saying it - stealth - is unimportant and that simply is not true.

And Finally when an asset which worth 2 billion$ to build each billions $ more to maintain strategic bomber only a non professional can think for its "attrition, re-sales, force reduction, using older or damaged airframes for spare parts"

You take a remark I make in the context of discussing the developments in the Dutch F-16 fleet and pretend I suggest this is the exactly same for the US B-2 fleet, which I didn't. Clearly, the importance of the asset differs, hence the funding realities, which eliminated the issue of spare parts use. Resale obvisously was never an issue. Force reductions were suffered in advance rather than in service (the planned AV-22 through AV-165 were cancelled)
But, as the B-2 crash at Guam shows, even the B-2 suffers from peacetime attrition.

still thinking where did the Norwegian f 16 comes in the discussion

No one discussed NORWEGIAN F16s.

In post #19 you stated:
This was the Russian foreign military review of the situation
"The Foreign Military Review writes: "Despite the fact that American aircraft dominated NATO operations, they weren't the only aircraft shot down by Yugoslav air defenses. Among the destroyed aircraft were five German "Tornadoes," several British "Harriers'" two French "Mirages," Belgian, Dutch, and Canadian aircraft. On June 7 the USAF lost a B-52 strategic bomber, while on May 20 a B-2A "Spirit" was shot down."
Source:http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins2000/tim2000-5-1.html

The only aircraft the DUTCH sent were F-16s (since this is our only fast combat jet). You placed a quote claiming Dutch aircraft were lost > they weren't.
You demand a fly by > not possible for said reasons > unreasonable demand

 

[Ultima Thule]

The only way to prove that no aircraft is missing was to show them publicly all together which didn't happens at that time when the claim is made a simple paint job can hide a big military secret very easily.



The man behind the F 16 program have very nice words for f 35

if this is not expert opinion the what is ?

just his personal opinion, he is not behind the development of F-35 kid this place is not for yours go play your toys