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The Era of Dog Fight returns. Feb 2019 has announced to the world.

I have no problem you banging your head but no, not two MiG 21s were shot ....only one MiG 21 was shot.......




























the other was 1xSu30.. now continue banging your head :)

PAF never claimed it shot down SU-30. Are you sure it's not the disinformation ? Just as the disinformation of Shooting down a F-16
 
PAF never claimed it shot down SU-30. Are you sure it's not the disinformation ? Just as the disinformation of Shooting down a F-16
PAF officially claims it shot down two Indian A/Cs and it does not claim the types.
 
PAF officially claims it shot down two Indian A/Cs and it does not claim the types.

IAF also claimed that they shot a F-16. We know 2 planes were shot as 3 parachutes were seeing descending. Both sides are engaging in disinformation. Seeing any sort of proof is believing at this stage
 
IMG_20190401_234350.jpg
 
IAF also claimed that they shot a F-16. We know 2 planes were shot as 3 parachutes were seeing descending. Both sides are engaging in disinformation. Seeing any sort of proof is believing at this stage
PAF has categorically denied shooting down of its F16 so while IAF has not denied shooting down of two if its A/C and three parachutes well explain that the other Indian A/C was a dual seater i.e. Su30. And a video of a burnt pilot emerged in IoJ&K appeared.
 
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Never going to happen. Whoever told you, was disseminating disinformation
I trust the person who promised this.

Why this disinformation campaign sounds eerily similar to 2012 kamra base attack. PAF hid loss of 1 destroyed and 2 damaged SAAB erieye and let the disinformation grew by showing one active SAAB as everything is okay. Until a year or so after the attack, Secretary defense admitted in Parliament that PAF lost an Erieye in the attack.
Did we. !!!
 
I have no problem you banging your head but no, not two MiG 21s were shot ....only one MiG 21 was shot.......




























the other was 1xSu30.. now continue banging your head :)
Ok sir jese apko satisfaction mile. Mjhe hard facts k bghr ni milti
 
Never going to happen. Whoever told you, was disseminating disinformation



Why this disinformation campaign sounds eerily similar to 2012 kamra base attack. PAF hid loss of 1 destroyed and 2 damaged SAAB erieye and let the disinformation grew by showing one active SAAB as everything is okay. Until a year or so after the attack, Secretary defense admitted in Parliament that PAF lost an Erieye in the attack.
this time it seems different bcz its not complete silence. But in service pilots are openly wearing kill patches. And ISPR is going pretty hard on Indians. I dont think they would be doing the same thing if they had a skeleton to hide.

Indian claims rested on abhinandan plan shooting down F-16. But very initial images found pieces of missiles on crash site.
 
PAF has categorically denied shooting down of its F16 so while IAF has not denied shooting down of two if its A/C and three parachutes well explain that the other Indian A/C was a dual seater i.e. Su30. And a video of a burnt pilot emerged in IoJ&K appeared.

PAF or IAF claims at this stage are just the claims until proven otherwise. F-16 is also a dual seater for argument sake. And that burnt pilot was from helicopter crash

I trust the person who promised this.


Did we. !!!

Promises are meant to be broken. ISPR yesterday press release isn't a clear indication that they are not in mood to release any video or data to backup the Second kill ? Asif Ghafoor claimed he will release the videos. He backed away from his claim. So your source can't negate the Asif Ghafoor narrative. Keep that in mind.

Did you forgot you posted DMA response at that time stating only 1 is slightly damaged, rest is all ok?
 
This is just an opinion based on the events of late Feb 2019 over the sky of Kashmir. The info of these events is highly classified so what available info I had I put the pieces together to make an understanding of it. I could be totally wrong all together but with info in hand this is what I can come up with.

View attachment 550078
World and World powers had thought they had moved out of the age of brave pilots chasing each other down and firing their 20mm into the wing or tail of opponent. It was the new age where you shoot down your enemy before you can see him with a BVR missile of pinpoint accuracy. Yes from 80s to 2000 we thought we had the advantage over everyone else as the age of gun was over. But the question is are we there yet?



It was the RADAR which made us thought that Gun in no more needed and now we can take the kill from miles away and tell the boys mission accomplished return to base. From pulse Doppler to AESA it all came so fast that once a deadly gun now looked like a burden of weight on a fighter jet. The term was lets fire and forget and there you had your kill. Humanity thought it was no more necessary for the human to be in the cockpit as it was now too dangerous with the range and radar the kill was confirm. They were moving to the sixth Gen with pilot less fighter jets. But let’s stop here and wait and look east something happened in the calm skies of Kashmir. A dog fight of the future which world was not expecting. The BVR was made obsolete and it was the gun and agility and tight turns and WVR that dominated the battlefield. What how who did this? We invested so much in an easy to kill method of BVR and they have ruined our dream.



The story starts with Indian aggression on a calm night of late Feb 2019 when India decided to kill few Muslim children sleeping on a hill top in Balakot. The BJP Govt came into power with politics of hate and shedding the blood of innocent Kashmiri youth in IOK was no longer fulfilled their agenda. They wanted the blood of children across the border to win the election and the hindutava supporters of BJP were now blood hungry and their thirst demanded them to violate the sovereignty of it’s neighbor. IAF flew in the dark of night like a pack of wolves hungry for Muslim blood. The selected their target and released their payload some 7 to 5 km inside Pakistani air space. These wolves had entered the cave of a Lion and they were at mistake. The lions PAF took to the air and denied them their targets. IAF had to return back with-out accomplishing their mission.



It was early light by now and Indian media were cheering their victory of throwing their bombs with in Pakistan there were parties in Delhi and Hindutava was praising Modi. It looked a clear election win for BJP and the day came to rest in India with huge victory. Next morning the Indian news papers were busy in writing stories of their great win and how they had humiliated their enemy. Morning shows were waving a Tiranga but then suddenly dots started appearing over the skies of Kashmir on Indian Air defence RADARS. In broad day light the lions had decided to hunt. It was the PAF strike package. They had entered from the south releasing their Payload once they had reached the height envelope of H-4 selecting targets in Naushera, Rajouri and Bimber Gali with Indian high command still sitting in his office the PAF glide bomb exploded outside his window putting the horror of PAF into his heart. The mission was to recreate the fear of PAF into the hearts of IAF which they had forgotten in 30 years. As the bombs fell few distance from their target PAF had demonstrated India they can and they will take them out if India plans any misadventure.



At this very moment 2 Mig-21 bison of IAF took off from Srinagar air-force base. Wing commander Abhinandan and his wing man were the first to respond to PAF. The rules of engagement were normal till now. The Indian defenses got activated. Abhinandan was give full aerial superiority by ground assets. Indian ground assets locked PAF and took the shot but at this very moment the whole battlefield over IOK changed it went from 4th Gen war to 5th Gen and Electronic warfare assets of PAF kicked in. The RADAR signals started getting jammed the missile of Indian air defenses lost its lock and went for a Mi-17 helicopter flying above Budgam. Abhinandans R-77 got jammed and became useless he had no target lock it seemed the Jammers had made BRV a tool of the past. Abhinandan went supersonic to avenge his wing man and catch the escaping PAF strike party. He jettison his extra fuel tank over Pakistani air space and had crossed LOC. Trying to get PAF strike party in his R-73 range. At this very moment a lion from the pride rolled into a right horizontal turn a maneuver which Mig-21 loves and falls into the Mig21s best maneuvers. In the mean time Indian SU30Mki are moving in fast to help their Mig-21 over Pakistani territory but they are not able to get any lock or track as Pakistani Electronic warfare asset is painting their search RADARS with multiple assets their RADAR screens are showing them multiple bogies at this long range and they cannot differentiate between real and fake. Plus with Abhinandan and Hassan Saddiqi in a horizental roll all friend and foe signal are jammed the SU-30 risk killing Abhinandan like they are killed their own Mi-17 helicopter. The density of electronic warfare had made the skies of Kashmir a no BVR engagement zone it is now a battlefield for old school where a gun and a IR homer had played for decades. The world was watching this quietly as their technologies were being thrown into waste bins and Stealth was bringing the Hippy with the gun back into town. IAF scared of Pakistani BVR fired their own ELTA 8222 pods to help their wolf who was chasing a lion.



Mig-21 is well known for it highly agile horizontal turn a maneuver that world has known ever since the Vietnam skies no one can defeat Mig-21 in this horizontal turn and Hassan Sadiqui seemed like a prey to Abhinandan. He dived behind JF-17 of PAF into a game Mig-21 loved. Well aware that with electronic warfare active from both sides the BVR are out of question and there will be no interference from out side The Mig-21 and JF-17 were moving around each other in a horizontal roll like 2 stars stuck in each others gravity field. Both jets of PAF and IAF were trying to get to the tail of the other to lock heat seekers. But then Abhinandan realized he has been out played the horizontal sharp turn was no more a domain which Mig-21 dominated the JF-17 had a trick up it sleeve the Thunder Turn a horizontal turn which was more dominant and Hassan was catching up on Abhinandan’s tail. Abhinandan had no way out he cannot engage vertical maneuver this would cost him more air speed and he will die much faster now all he could do was wait for that end he was destined for. Hassan sadiqqi got him in his cross-air and fired the PL-5 IR short range missile and Abhinandan was doomed, the lion had tasted the blood of IAF. World was in a shock to see all advance tech of IAF being scraped to nothing and PAF had its gun and seeker back. From the era of MM-Alam PAF loved the Gun and turns and now Electronic war had given them what they craved for. PAF loved F-16 and now there it was JF-17 fulfilling their addiction. They had learned from their students in middle east that Mig-21 was best in horizontal turn and PAF planned for this dominance in dog fight from the very start and they achieved it. Abhinandan pulled his ejection lever to save his life and PL-5 from Hassan’s JF-17 shattered IAF pride whole India watched this from a distance how electronic warfare has denounced them the superiority they so boasted about. The era of dog fight had returned. With stealth and EW suites the Gun was again the weapon of choice and WVR was the new Battlefield. The huge distance which RADAR use to provide had diminished and it was back to I see you.



There RADAR and counter measures will always be in war and as the technology develops the domains will widen but Gun will always remain relevant in an air war with stealth becoming the future the Gun now has an even better future. Jammer are here to stay and stealth is the name of 5th gen now so it is time to keep those guns greased. It is a reality world needs to accept because PAF has changed the rule book which technology had written. It is shock for the world powers all around but it is what it is.
We've basically played a classic Israel against more numerical airforce , struck at a unexpected time , had top of the line Intel , jammed them as if it's some central African country against America, then had a duck shoot ,
Yaar itni buri baezti hou as chief of IAF I would commit suicide
 
I was replying to someone else without quoting him in a different context. Sorry my mistake.

Ah, I apologize for the misunderstanding then.

He was saying that it was a WVR fight and in that response i said that why they never used missiles if it was a WVR fight. Me also believes that it was a BVR and JF17 thunder locked it before it knew what happened.

To be fair, it would all have depended on how the PAF laid out the trap. They might very well have only sprung it once the Mig was quite close and within visual range, exactly where they wanted it. Maybe to leave no chance of it turning tail and out running the missile. Maybe also to ensure that the wreckage fell inside Pakistan. The PAF has done this before many times. Could even be that the Indian story of PAF launching multiple BVRs at their SU30s and missing is indeed true. Maybe those BVRs were launched at the limits of their ranges specifically to keep most of the IAF aircraft away from the engagement. It's a very legitimate tactic used by Air Forces and wolves. All the while, by design, isolating and allowing the Mig and the second aircraft to slip in closer, only to be ambushed by the two JF-17s. A BVR missile could still have been used. Although meant for longer ranges BVRs are still very potent and reliable WVR weapons. The type of missile used would have depended upon the parameters being met and the situation at hand at the time of the shot. BVRs have been used in WVR combat quite a few times before as well.

However they did it, one thing is certain. It was all done by design and in a manner which left the enemy absolutely stupefied and completely without answers, also by design.


How do you not have a ton of likes for this? Maybe they didn't see it.

Pakistani Mirage,

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Indian Mirage,

D3FgB9NXgAA8D25.jpg
 
Never going to happen. Whoever told you, was disseminating disinformation



Why this disinformation campaign sounds eerily similar to 2012 kamra base attack. PAF hid loss of 1 destroyed and 2 damaged SAAB erieye and let the disinformation grew by showing one active SAAB as everything is okay. Until a year or so after the attack, Secretary defense admitted in Parliament that PAF lost an Erieye in the attack.
Actually we have 2 3 groups but official policy is to disown some success for future gains and those gains are really big
 

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