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The end of the deal, hopes, delusions and treasons

Im a troll spreading propaganda, but then you quote an farsi news article literally going against what you say and aligning with what I say.

So many village idiots on here...

What’s said is when you ask the village idiots what is their alternative instead of returning to JCPOA...it’s dead silence.

Personally I think JCPOA was poorly negotiated. arak reactor should have not been cemented until an alternative reactor was built and a period of time (5 years) had passed so Iran could see if the West lived up to its requirements.

Also research and live feed of gas into r&d centrifuges should have been allowed so Iran could have leverage in case west ever broke their commitments.

There are other things, but those are some main ones.


Mr. Ameritard the article goes with what I said that Rouhani and Zarif are a bunch of traitors selling the country to the west to get the "Reformists" re-elected.

As for the alternative to the JCPOA, it's the 25 years deal with china and Iran already took that road.

This is the first and last time that I will answer your bulls**t so if you have nothing to say about the topic of the thread please go play in the Ameritards forum.

Thank you
 
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Is that true? If i remember correctly around 100+ billions of dollars got released to Iran and several French made civilian airplanes delivered. Some sanctions were indeed lifted for that ^^ to happen.

But hold on, i am still not finished with you. You very well know that the moment you are going to sit with the Americans at the table they are going to come up with tons of other demands. What kind of guarantee are the Iranian people going to get that they won't cave in again? Iran is the only nation on earth that constantly negotiates its nuke program in exchange for a few Western breadcrumbs. The fact that you even support negotiation of Irans nuclear program just proves that you are a traitor. What we know for sure is this time Khamenei supports the negotiations taking place. We all know he was never the brightest candle on the cake but i never expected him to cave in so fast after 20 years of sanctions and taking the country to the toilet.
Money was superficially released, but swift was still blocked, so no, no money was returned, instead they imported stuff, as the result, in the first implementation year, thousands of domestic factories were shut down.

Iran was allowed to buy Civilian airplanes, but again, there was no legal way for transactions and no one was allowed to finance the deals, so again as the result, none of our companies managed to seal a deal.
Just to fool the people during the election, 3 airbus were delivered which Iranian government bought for these companies using national reserve money, pay attention that not even through that so called released money, and all of those airplanes are now grounded. cause European countries refuse to update their navigation program.

I'm not a fan of JCPOA, and Khamenei hasn't allowed any negotiation. he has said Sanctions should be removed and it doesn't need any negotiation, the rest is the struggle of traitors. but remember that we have already lost our uranium, our centrifuges, our reactor, plus all sensitive information, saying that we don't want the deal's benefit at this point isn't much logical, is it? plus it will turn the whole world against us.

West wont remove the sanctions, that's the reality, Khamenei knows it too.
 
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Money was superficially released, but swift was still blocked, so no, no money was returned, instead they imported stuff, as the result, in the first implementation year, thousands of domestic factories were shut down.

Iran was allowed to buy Civilian airplanes, but again, there was no legal way for transactions and no one was allowed to finance the deals, so again as the result, none of our companies managed to seal a deal.
Just to fool the people during the election, 3 airbus were delivered which Iranian government bought for these companies using national reserve money, pay attention that not even through that so called released money, and all of those airplanes are now grounded. cause European countries refuse to update their navigation program.

I'm not a fan of JCPOA, and Khamenei hasn't allowed any negotiation. he has said Sanctions should be removed and it doesn't need any negotiation, the rest is the struggle of traitors. but remember that we have already lost our uranium, our centrifuges, our reactor, plus all sensitive information, saying that we don't want the deal's benefit at this point isn't much logical, is it? plus it will turn the whole world against us.

West wont remove the sanctions, that's the reality, Khamenei knows it too.

So what would be the alternative?
 
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"Tehran will not accept any outcome of the Vienna meeting other than the removal of all sanctions," the source said on Monday night.



"Robert Malley will have to leave Vienna empty-handed if the Tuesday meeting would result in anything other than the removal of all US sanctions," the source added, referring to the US president's special envoy for Iran who is expected to attend the Vienna talks.



“The path is clear. All US sanctions [against Iran] must be removed at once. Then [this measure] must be verified [by Tehran] and only then, the Islamic Republic will take its step [to return to full commitments under the nculear deal],” the Iranian spokesman said.
 
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In Iran Nuclear Talks, Familiar Cast of Characters Faces Fresh Problems

Negotiations over the original nuclear deal were a highly technical affair. This time they are a test of political will.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-iran-nuclear-talks-familiar-cast-of-characters-faces-fresh-problems-11617626187
When American and Iranian officials resume talks in Vienna on reviving the 2015 international nuclear deal, the people driving the diplomacy are a familiar cast of characters, including some of the key figures who negotiated the original accord working to put it back together again.


But if the participants in Tuesday’s discussions are familiar, the context for the talks has changed sharply, as have some of the two sides’ objectives. And while the steps needed for Washington and Tehran to return to their commitments are relatively clear, the diplomatic choreography to get there is complicated.


Negotiating the original deal was a hugely technical effort aimed at inventing from scratch a set of nuclear restraints on Iran. These talks will be more a test of political will.

President Trump’s withdrawal from the nuclear deal in 2018 and the nearly three years of sanctions that followed, crushing Iran’s economy, have deepened Tehran’s wariness of American promises. The U.S. killing of Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani last year heightened that mistrust.

After the Americans pulled out, Iran stopped adhering to limits the deal placed on its nuclear activities, taking steps that have brought it closer to being able to produce an atomic weapon. Some Iranian officials question whether a future U.S. administration won’t abandon the pact again.

The coming Iranian presidential elections in June also have emboldened Tehran hard-liners who are striving to deny President Hassan Rouhani and his more moderate allies a diplomatic victory ahead of the vote.

The Biden administration, for its part, regards restoring the 2015 deal negotiated during the Obama administration as just a starting point. President Biden has said he intends to use the deal to pursue follow-on arrangements that would impose more enduring limits on Iran’s nuclear efforts while addressing Tehran’s missile program and regional activities, especially its support for local militias.

“The U.S. and Iran are so suspicious of each other that it is going to be hard,” said Robert Einhorn, a former senior State Department official for proliferation issues who is at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank. “Returning to the deal will be slower and more complicated than originally expected, even though both countries support restoring the agreement. Achieving follow-on arrangements will be even more difficult.”

Compounding the challenge, tensions have escalated between Washington and two of the other parties to the original seven-nation deal: Russia and China. Both countries have strengthened ties with Iran since 2015—the Russians by cooperating with Iran in Syria to bolster President Bashar al-Assad and the Chinese by becoming Tehran’s main trading partner and concluding a wide-ranging accord in March.

While talks on the 2015 accord occurred against the background of major tensions with Russia over its intervention in Ukraine, former officials say that Moscow and Beijing nonetheless played a constructive role and that similar cooperation for any follow-on arrangements could be less likely.

“When it comes to a follow-on agreement, the change in relations with China and Russia will make this incredibly difficult for Biden,” said Gary Samore, director of the Crown Center for Middle East Studies at Brandeis University and a weapons of mass destruction expert on former President Barack Obama’s National Security Council.

Iran’s team in Vienna will be headed by Abbas Araghchi, an influential deputy foreign minister who helped orchestrate Tehran’s approach to the 2015 deal, formally known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

The U.S. delegation is staffed by experienced hands who have been dealing with Iran’s nuclear program for years. Rob Malley, the U.S. special envoy for Iran, will be present, and the U.S. team is also expected to include his deputy, Richard Nephew, a sanctions and proliferation expert.

Signaling their support for the Vienna talks, the European nations that participate in the deal plan to send the political directors from their foreign ministries to the opening of the session before government experts get down to the highly technical talks, a Western diplomat said. Russia, in contrast, isn’t sending a deputy foreign official from Moscow but will rely on Mikhail Ulyanov, its Permanent Representative to International Organizations in Vienna. China is also expected to be represented by a lower level official..


For now, Iran is refusing to meet directly with U.S. officials unlike the years of sometimes day-and-night negotiations that led to the 2015 accord. Instead, European diplomats will talk separately with the Iranians and the Americans, and shuttle between the two sides.


At the heart of negotiations will be Iran’s breaches of the deal and the future of sanctions imposed by the Trump administration, which not only reimposed the sanctions lifted under the 2015 deal but also sanctioned many of the same sectors of Iran’s economy under antiterror powers, or tied them to Iran’s development of ballistic missiles.

Biden administration officials are prepared to remove nuclear sanctions if Iran complies with the 2015 deal. But they say they plan to keep some sanctions on terrorism and human rights grounds and perhaps impose new ones, which they insist were never precluded by the accord. Entities targeted under counterterrorism authority include Iran’s central bank and the Revolutionary Guard, its prime military unit.

Iranian officials say all U.S. sanctions imposed since 2018 must be lifted before Tehran returns to compliance with the accord. In addition to the economic benefits that Iran would get from the removal of sanctions, it would gain more than $30 billion if the U.S. agreed to release all of Tehran’s export revenue that has been frozen abroad.


Reversing Iran’s breaches of the 2015 deal is also a knotty problem. In addition to increasing uranium enrichment, Iran has installed advanced centrifuges, gaining technical knowledge that can’t be erased. The U.S. is likely to argue that the centrifuges be destroyed and not merely dismantled, some former officials say, a step Tehran may be unwilling to take.


European officials would like to see the negotiations over re-entering the deal done before Iran’s presidential election, but some former U.S. officials say they could well take much longer.


In recent weeks, the Biden administration offered to release an initial $1 billion in frozen oil revenue from South Korea, which would be used to buy humanitarian items, and to issue some waivers for Iran to legally export some of its oil. In return, the U.S. asked for specific steps on the Iranian side, including stopping the production of 20% uranium. But Iran, which once asked for an initial gesture from Washington, now says it is no longer interested in a step-by-step approach and wants to define what a comprehensive return to compliance for both sides would look like, U.S. and Iranian officials say.


Even if the deal is restored, the lingering distrust will cast a shadow over future talks and could make Iran resistant to the Biden administration’s long-term goal of a broader security arrangement. And by negotiating hard in Vienna over restoring a deal previously agreed to in 2015, Iran will also be sending a signal that any discussion of follow-on arrangements would be much harder, those former U.S. officials say.

European diplomats have said that any U.S. effort in Vienna to nail down Tehran’s commitment to participate in future negotiations could push Iran away from the table.

The Biden administration hasn’t said Iran must commit to engage in talks on follow-on arrangements as a condition for restoring the 2015 deal. Yet if Washington doesn’t extract an Iranian promise to engage in such discussions before the 2015 deal is revived, it could surrender some of its biggest leverage—sanctions—to lure Tehran into those future talks, some former U.S. officials say.

Tehran hasn’t formally ruled out a follow-up accord on its nuclear activities if it would get more benefits in return. But negotiating limits on Iran’s missile program, which Tehran says is needed as a counterweight to the superior air forces of the Arab Gulf states and Israel, is a “non-starter,” according to Hossein Mousavian, a former Iranian nuclear negotiator, now with Princeton University.

“Since the U.S. broke its promise, it needs to first restore the trust by correctly implementing the agreed deal, and then raise other disputed issues,” he said.

“Considering the broken promises of the U.S. and Europe, when it comes to military issues, even reformist voices are against giving concessions,” Abolfazl Amouei, spokesman for the national security and foreign policy commission in Iran’s parliament, said in an interview.


—Aresu Eqbali and Laurence Norman contributed to this article.
 
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As for the alternative to the JCPOA, it's the 25 years deal with china and Iran already took that road.

So instead of selling sovereignty to the West your plan is to sell sovereignty to the East? A 25 year deal that is merely a MOU.

China is only one country without its own alternative financial system clearing alternative (SWIFT). It cannot be Iran’s only trade partner of Iran’s economy is expected to to be a 2 Trillion GDP economy in the future. (No reason it shouldn’t)

But of course I wouldn’t expect someone to understand basic economics who thinks Rouhani and Zarif are selling the entire country by themselves to the West.
 
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But they say they plan to keep some sanctions on terrorism and human rights grounds and perhaps impose new ones, which they insist were never precluded by the accord.

Like I said Iran is playing this game entirely wrong. By merely asking for Trump era sanctions to be lifted, it is exchanging nukes for peanuts. It is exchanging nuclear latency in exchange for selling oil and being apart of banking system which it already was prior to 2009!

Iran needs full removal of sanctions and dropping of US embargo.

What happens if Trump gets elected in 2024? And rips up the deal?

Who are these village idiots going to blame then when Rouhani has been gone for 4 years and parliament has been filled with conservatives the whole time?
 
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Like I said Iran is playing this game entirely wrong. By merely asking for Trump era sanctions to be lifted, it is exchanging nukes for peanuts. It is exchanging nuclear latency in exchange for selling oil and being apart of banking system which it already was prior to 2009!

Iran needs full removal of sanctions and dropping of US embargo.

What happens if Trump gets elected in 2024? And rips up the deal?

Who are these village idiots going to blame then when Rouhani has been gone for 4 years and parliament has been filled with conservatives the whole time?
Pre JCPOA sanctions are never going to be lifted with the current political climate in the US. Do you also expect US embassy reopening in Tehran? They are even struggling to get back into the JCPOA.
 
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Since you are the smartest person on this planet and since God created you and broke the mould, Iran should make you the new supreme leader.

If you are going to be critical of JCPOA and negotiating with the US, then that is fine and natural. If you don’t have an alternative then you just sound like an illiterate Republican in the US. It is clear Iran cannot be stuck in this status quo. So something has to change wether JCPOA or drive for the bomb or whatever.

It’s strange when US hurts Iran you guys remember it for 100 years, when Russia and China stab Iran in the back you forget about it the next day.

China is hardly a reliable partner they flooded Iran with cheap and poor quality goods leading to the shut down of many domestic industries that couldn’t compete with Chinese oversupply. They failed to commit to energy projects they signed on to do and drag their feet for years (natural gas and oil projects). There has been a rise in anti Chinese sentiment in Iran long before this so called 25 year accord.

China isnt going to fix Iran’s problems and any country that becomes your lifeblood will have significant sway over your domestic politics and sovereignty. Just ask Syria who is now beholden to Russia and Iran. Or Iraq which now has massive Iranian influence in every corner of its government.

So this thinking that China rescues Iran and then magically doesn’t hold that leverage over Iran’s head like a sword goes against basic geopolitical strategy.
Pre JCPOA sanctions are never going to be lifted with the current political climate in the US. Do you also expect US embassy reopening in Tehran? They are even struggling to get back into the JCPOA.

Even Khomeini envisioned the US embassy opening one day. That is why it still exists and hasn’t been demolished and something built on it.

What I expect is irrelevant, but Iran is being treated like it has the bomb without any of the leverage of having the bomb.

Iran selling its oil and being able to access its frozen funds in exchange for running a token nuclear program again is an insult.

And make no mistake about it, the US isn’t going to stop at JCPOA they will want more. And by the time they want more, Iran will have nothing to negotiate away since they took it in the beginning of negotiations. That is how the Us operates.
 
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With Netanyahu vulnerable, Israel again ignored by Washington on Iran

The intimate dialogue Israel expected with the new Biden administration, giving it an opportunity to explain its position on Iran, to show the Americans highly classified intelligence and provide a comprehensive briefing on the 2015 deal with Iran and its many lacunas, never materialized. Officially, contacts are said to be underway between the National Security Council in Washington and Israel’s National Security Council. In fact, these come down to a few Zoom conversations during which national security adviser Meir Ben-Shabbat tried to convey pointed messages, but his ability to make an impression, and on Zoom, at that, is limited to non-existent.

“The Americans are not really taking us into consideration at this point,” a senior Israeli security source told Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity. “The issue is not high on their agenda; they are busy dealing with the coronavirus and then with Russia and China. The Middle East is in fourth place, and there is no certainty that the Iranian nuclear agreement is even the most dominant issue in the region,” he added.

The situation on the ground is even worse. According to information reaching Jerusalem, official and quasi-official Biden administration emissaries are courting Iran intensively, conducting contacts, sending envoys, writing letters and documents. The contacts are both official and unofficial, some through mediators, usually European ones.

The Iranians are taking a simple, tough line. They are simply unwilling to hear from the Americans or to engage in any sort of negotiations as long as the United States refuses to return unilaterally to the original deal with Tehran and lift its sanctions on the regime. “It’s embarrassing,” an Israeli source familiar with these developments told Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity. “The Americans are investing much more effort in the Iranian side than in trying to understand our side, but the Iranians are not blinking, for now,” according to the source.

The country facilitating Iran’s current tough stance is China. The agreement on strategic cooperation and investment signed on March 27 between Beijing and Tehran is of great concern to Israel. “The Iranians succeeded, big time, in withstanding the harsh sanctions imposed on them, using various means, including oil smuggling and secret cooperation with various countries,” a senior Israeli security source told Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity. “Publication of an agreement of this magnitude between Iran and China greatly boosts Iran’s self-confidence and weakens the American bargaining power. This is a negative development of strategic proportions,” he added.

The Israeli side sounds considerably desperate. Netanyahu still has some “big guns” at his disposal, namely Mossad Chief Yossi Cohen who has been nurturing a close working relationship with US officials whom he met during the Obama administration and are now key players in the Biden administration. Al-Monitor has learned that Cohen, whose term ends in June, will soon depart for Washington to discuss the Iran issue. He will try to affect change in the US position, but he realizes that this time his mission will be particularly difficult.

“The Americans are simply in a totally different place,” a senior Israeli diplomatic source sums up, speaking on condition of anonymity. “As far as they are concerned, the whole Iran issue can be checked off by returning to the international agreement that defines the Iranian nuclear project and blocks it for as long as possible, and that’s that. They probably want to charge ahead with the agreement and have pretty much given up on making significant amendments to it.”

This development is generating grave concern, not only in Israel. “All of our strategic partners in the region are no less concerned, and perhaps even more than we are,” the senior Israeli security source told Al-Monitor. “The UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan, even Qatar — all these states know the significance of these developments, and many in the region’s capitals are losing sleep over them.” The problem is that in the most important capital of all, Washington, no one is really worried. They have other problems.



Iran is not an important issue for many in USA
 
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