The Disintegration of Rural China

[Götterdämmerung]

You might have some point but as far as I know the matter China has Hui people who are muslim and they have no problem with them. Besides these ethnic tensions between Turkish and Chinese people goes back pre-Islamic times. So it is more complicated to explain only by religion.

China's closest ally Pakistan is a very religious Muslim country after all. Pakistan has a higher percentage of religious people then Turkey yet still China and Pakistan can be very good friends.

By the way eating pork only makes your friend not religious. You don't need to be in Germany to eat pork. I know tons of restaurants in Istanbul that serves pork and Turkish people eat it. Here in Turkey.

It's not Islam that is the problem, but religious extremism of any religion that is the problem!

Have ever heard of Hui religious terror organisation? Have heard of Huis or Kazakhs joining ISIS in droves? No? Have you heard from these two minorities complaining about being negatively discriminated? No? Why the Uighurs?

 

[Lure]

What has eating pork to do with anything? You have to eat pork to be liked and accepted by Europeans? Europeans are no gods. Stop comparing yourself and wanting to be like them. Also Turkish people don't eat pork. Only small minority does who are Armenian or Greek(in Istanbul). It is totally irrelevant to this topic.

Clearly our German friend were not able to distinguish a Turkish Nationalist and a Radical Islamists. I was helping him to distinguish the two. Being a Turkish Nationalist -like yourself- does not automatically makes you an ISIS member.

There are some Nationalist Turks who are not religious. That was my thesis from the beginning. However I guess it was so counter-intuitive for people here.

By the way do you know anything about pre-islamic Turks not eating pork? I don't think so but I don't have any concrete information.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Do you also call him a Turkey that needs to be stuffed?

I guess we should call all Germans Nazis whose only function is to gas Jews, seems like its the new standart in forum...

No, he doesn't pull stuffs out of his behind just to get it stuffed in again. He also has been to China and like myself likes China a lot.

 

[atatwolf]

It's not Islam that is the problem, but religious extremism of any religion that is the problem!

Have ever heard of Hui religious terror organisation? Have heard of Huis or Kazakhs joining ISIS in droves? No? Have you heard from these two minorities complaining about being negatively discriminated? No? Why the Uighurs?

Because Uighur land was invaded 60 years ago. Their lands stolen on their own land and terrorized and killed by Chinese governemnt. Kind of weird you ask the question. How would Germans feel if Russians invaded Germany and were doing the same things?

 

[Lure]

It's not Islam that is the problem, but religious extremism of any religion that is the problem!

Have ever heard of Hui religious terror organisation? Have heard of Huis or Kazakhs joining ISIS in droves? No? Have you heard from these two minorities complaining about being negatively discriminated? No? Why the Uighurs?

Which part of the thing I've told was so confusing to understand?

1-) Tensions between Chinese and Uighurs goes back to Before Christ Era.
2-) It has both religious and ethnic perspectives.
3-) Not every Nationalist person who supports Uighur independence is actually religious.
4-) There are a lot of secular Turkish Nationalists here in Turkey.
5-) Terrorist Organisations like Al-Qaeda were once been funded and supported by Western Intelligence Agencies during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.
6-) Chechens were once supported and armed by Western Intelligence Agencies during their riot against Russia back in 1996.
7-) All you western people were chanting about how "the arab spring" would bring democracy to middle east yet you have faced that you can't have enough democrats at a desert nation of 4000$ GDP per capita.
8 -) I guess in the last 2 decades Western Intelligence Agencies have clearly understood that arming and training fundementalists for a political maneveur is a bad idea.

Do you want me to go on?

When you see a Turkish member why do you feel the urge to discuss about radical Islamic terrorists? I don't have the urge to discuss about nazizm when I encounter with a German.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Because Uighur land was invaded 60 years ago. Their lands stolen on their own land and terrorized and killed by Chinese governemnt. Kind of weird you ask the question. How would Germans feel if Russians invaded Germany and were doing the same things?

There was never an Uighur country that was recognised by any international body 60 years ago. Northern Xinjiang, that some extremist Uighurs claim was never inhabited Uighurs but by Kazakhs who hate the Uighurs. Russia and Germany have been established and recognised nations when we fought our wars. Russia indeed still occupies land that once was German, Königsberg, but we started the whole mess and that was the price we had to pay for. No sane German would claim that land anymore.

Why do certain ethnics claim discrimination while others don't? There are over 50 ethnics in China. Is it because some members of these ethnics do have some habits that the majority just don't savour?

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Which part of the thing I've told was so confusing to understand?

1-) Tensions between Chinese and Uighurs goes back to Before Christ Era.
2-) It has both religious and ethnic perspectives.
3-) Not every Nationalist person who supports Uighur independence is actually religious.
4-) There are a lot of secular Turkish Nationalists here in Turkey.
5-) Terrorist Organisations like Al-Qaeda were once been funded and supported by Western Intelligence Agencies during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.
6-) Chechens were once supported and armed by Western Intelligence Agencies during their riot against Russia back in 1996.
7-) All you western people were chanting about how "the arab spring" would bring democracy to middle east yet you have faced that you can't have enough democrats at a desert nation of 4000$ GDP per capita.
8 -) I guess in the last 2 decades Western Intelligence Agencies have clearly understood that arming and training fundementalists for a political maneveur is a bad idea.

Do you want me to go on?

When you see a Turkish member why do you feel the urge to discuss about radical Islamic terrorists? I don't have the urge to discuss about nazizm when I encounter with a German.

There was no Uighurs BCE. What nonsense are you talking about. There was not even a Turk identity 2000 years ago.

The original Uighurs were from NE Mongolia, not from Xinjiang. They were migrants and new occupiers of Xinjiang.

If you know my posting history, you would know that I have been very vocal in condemning US-led policy with regard to the whole demonisation of Islam and support of the Mujahedeen cum terrorism and colour revolutions.

 

[Sanchez]

I'm not pro ISIS but I'm anti-China. I can't stay behind a country who commits numerous crimes against Uyghur and Tibetians. Last week 300 Uighur with their families fled to Turkey because they were threatened to be executed for being Muslim and Uighur.

If you can't fight pls stop your internet bs. China has more than twenty million Muslims why would only care about a few Uyghurs? Are you a little racist or you only care about turkic separatists from China?

 

[Sanchez]

Which part of the thing I've told was so confusing to understand?

1-) Tensions between Chinese and Uighurs goes back to Before Christ Era.

Turkic tribes emerged only in the 6th -7th century from Mogolian plateau. Uyghur tribe was finally defeated by the Kyrghyz and driven to the present areas. Never heard any Turkic culture before Christ.

 

[Sanchez]

Because Uighur land was invaded 60 years ago. Their lands stolen on their own land and terrorized and killed by Chinese governemnt. Kind of weird you ask the question. How would Germans feel if Russians invaded Germany and were doing the same things?

From Qing dynasty China always had local government of administration to rule Xinjiang. Do you have recieved any higher education at all in Turkey?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

I'm not pro ISIS but I'm anti-China. I can't stay behind a country who commits numerous crimes against Uyghur and Tibetians. Last week 300 Uighur with their families fled to Turkey because they were threatened to be executed for being Muslim and Uighur.

Come from an Anatolian, you can stay behind a country who commits numerious crimes against Armenians and Kurdish people...that's not a problem for you...LMAO. you know why China has never recognized PKK as terrorist group as Turkish gorvernment want make us to believe? because we doubt the validity of your claim, what every Anatolians said need to be check and verify, we simply don't trust you. And you can vomit the rest of garbage about how we mistreated Muslim and Uighur, only Armenians and Kurks know well the truth face of you fake turks pretending to be the Uighur savors.

 

[atatwolf]

What I read is lame excuses for the occupation of East-Turkistan 60 years ago. Occupying a people is one thing. Making lies and taking away their freedoms and rights is another. Luckily Beijing rule is about to disintegrate. The cracks are showing everywhere in that artificial country.

 

[Lure]

There was no Uighurs BCE. What nonsense are you talking about. There was not even a Turk identity 2000 years ago.

The original Uighurs were from NE Mongolia, not from Xinjiang. They were migrants and new occupiers of Xinjiang.

If you know my posting history, you would know that I have been very vocal in condemning US-led policy with regard to the whole demonisation of Islam and support of the Mujahedeen cum terrorism and colour revolutions.

History of the Uyghur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East Turkestan independence movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xiongnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tiele people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please refer to those articles about Turkic history. Why are you constantly trying to make silly polemics? "There were no Turks 2000 years ago", "Uighurs were migrants to Xinjiang". Hell. Do you think do I care who migrated where? I only care about one thing, only a simply minded person can tie an ethnicity to religious extremism and you are trying to do that.

If you know my post history, you will see that I don't have any problems with Chinese people and do not provide any support for Xinjiang seperatist movements. Altough I might have done that and that's not a taboo. But I don't since I also think that the world needs a developed China. That's why I don't support them.

I've told some Chinese member here to not to stereotype Turkish people with ISIS membership since there are many not religious people living in Turkey and this is offending for them. For us, basically. I don't want to be announced with some fundementalist terrorist organization because of my national identity ok?

And you came from nowhere saying that Erdogan is supporting ISIS implying that we all should support ISIS. IF you do not imply that please do not go further into this discussion.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

What I read is lame excuses for the occupation of East-Turkistan 60 years ago. Occupying a people is one thing. Making lies and taking away their freedoms and rights is another. Luckily Beijing rule is about to disintegrate. The cracks are showing everything in that artificial country.

You don't seems to complain of what Turkish Invaders did in Anatolia for over centuries, make this place as Turkish permanent occupation, brough these people into submission and total assimilation, of course when these Invaders destroyed and burn all Anatolia history books to make you believe as descendant of turk, the remaining is nothing but lies about your Anatolian's culture, history and Identify...try to look at your own shamefull mirror before discuss other's issue.

 

[Lure]

Turkic tribes emerged only in the 6th -7th century from Mogolian plateau. Uyghur tribe was finally defeated by the Kyrghyz and driven to the present areas. Never heard any Turkic culture before Christ.

Turkhic people living in central Asia had no written history because they were nomads. But you guys weren't. Chinese historians had written about some central Asian people describing something close to Turkish belief systems like Tengriism.

You guys named them Xiongnu. Turkish written history -which is written by Turks- started 6th-7th centuries you are right.

I was refering to Xiongnu which is the Turkhic history written by Chinese historians.

Xiongnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's controversial tough. Some scholars say they were not Turkic. But the belief system and culture is extremely close.

And you guys had problems with Xiongnu as well. I was refering to that when I was talking about "the problems between Chinese and Turkhic people going back to BCE."

Han–Xiongnu War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle of Tian Shan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle of Jushi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hell, I don't care about this discussion that much. My point was something else but it's shifting away as the discussion continues.