The country with Muslims but no mosque

[django]

Sand Nigger I don't have time for your low IQ kind.

@WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence @waz
Mods please erase Ghandaran wannabe "Vishvamitra" from this forum, it would be greatly appreciated.Kudos

 

[Slav Defence]

I have banned harvey Pundit and I warn you to be careful and to show patience towards each other.This thread would have served as a platform to discuss issues that Muslims are facing and the factors that are causing some countries in west to perceive them in negative way.
Islam is a religion of peace and just like other religions promotes peace and harmony and just like any other region muslims living in any country are trying to make a difference.Islam and Islamic ideology is not a threat to any nation but simply a way of living for a Muslim. Just like Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Parsi and atheists, Muslims also hold right to have their places of worship and free practice. If Islam is a threat, then Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Parsi faith and paganism all are threat and if none of these are threat for world's existence and peaceful living then so Islam.

I do not want to see anyone abusing now or else he/she will be kicked out like Harvy nonsense.I advise members to cooperate with each other and utilize this platform to understand and help each other.Who knows that you may gain a tourist or a guest to welcome in your country or an investor or a student or a scientist?

regards

 

[American Pakistani]

Yes, but the sources does not prove any of your claims.
The United States supported the Mujahedin movement.
That well known, and that is what is shown in your Reagan pictures.
The support ended when the Soviets left.

To prove your claim you need to prove that the US provided support to the Talibans in the months preceding the takeover. That you have not done, for the reason that they did not do it.
The Talibans were created by Pakistan, in order to turn Afghanistan into Pakistani puppet.
This has been confirmed by Pakistani leadership.

Providing a link to an article where John McCain complains that Obama does not support Syrian Rebels is not proof that the US created ISIS. The article stated what I stated all the time. The US supported the Free Syrian Army, which is not ISIS, and the end result was embarrassing.

Are you so thick? Of course they grouped later on. They were created by west but they grouped later with a different brand name. Example from mujahideen to Taliban and from FSA to isis, or similar in Africa.

Today west is supporting kurd militias to fight Syria, Iraq and Turkeye, tomorrow when they group up and become a liability then west will bomb Syria, Iraq and Turkeye.

When they took over Afghanistan then Pakistan was left with no choice but to accept reality cuz west left Pakistan to deal with the mess they made in Afghanistan. How would you feel if Pakistan or China or Russia train some groups in your neighboring country and then leave.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Are you so thick? Of course they grouped later on. They were created by west but they grouped later with a different brand name. Example from mujahideen to Taliban and from FSA to isis, or similar in Africa.

Today west is supporting kurd militias to fight Syria, Iraq and Turkeye, tomorrow when they group up and become a liability then west will bomb Syria, Iraq and Turkeye.

When they took over Afghanistan then Pakistan was left with no choice but to accept reality cuz west left Pakistan to deal with the mess they made in Afghanistan. How would you feel if Pakistan or China or Russia train some groups in your neighboring country and then leave.

The US did not create the Taliban, their parents did.

What you call grouping, is the creation of the Taliban.
Training gives individuals competences. The US taught the Mujahedin how to fight a guerilla war.
Pakistan participated in training, and supporting the Mujahedin in various ways.


Creation of an organisation includes establish a goal. It includes recruiting people and getting them to accept that goal.

The definition of the goals for the Taliban did not involve the US.

Once the Taliban was formed by Mullah Omar in 1994.

• They did not get any funding from the US.
• They did not get any weapons from the US.
• They did not get any military training from the US.
• They did not have any bases in the US.

They got all that from Pakistan, yet the US created the Taliban...

When the Taliban invaded Afghanistan, they fought the Mujahedin that the US trained.
Initially got severly beaten, but Pakistan stepped up their support.

By ~1990, the US was out of Afghanistan. Now it is 2018, 28 years later.
Any US trained Mujahedin would be at least 50-60 years old by now.

The Taliban movement supposedly were students, students are typically 19-25 years old.
Any such student in 1996 would barely have been 18 in 1989,
making even them not old enough to have been Mujahedin.

 

[django]

I have banned harvey Pundit and I warn you to be careful and to show patience towards each other.This thread would have served as a platform to discuss issues that Muslims are facing and the factors that are causing some countries in west to perceive them in negative way.
Islam is a religion of peace and just like other religions promotes peace and harmony and just like any other region muslims living in any country are trying to make a difference.Islam and Islamic ideology is not a threat to any nation but simply a way of living for a Muslim. Just like Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Parsi and atheists, Muslims also hold right to have their places of worship and free practice. If Islam is a threat, then Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Parsi faith and paganism all are threat and if none of these are threat for world's existence and peaceful living then so Islam.

I do not want to see anyone abusing now or else he/she will be kicked out like Harvy nonsense.I advise members to cooperate with each other and utilize this platform to understand and help each other.Who knows that you may gain a tourist or a guest to welcome in your country or an investor or a student or a scientist?

regards

.Much obliged.Kudos

 

[American Pakistani]

The US did not create the Taliban, their parents did.

What you call grouping, is the creation of the Taliban.
Training gives individuals competences. The US taught the Mujahedin how to fight a guerilla war.
Pakistan participated in training, and supporting the Mujahedin in various ways.


Creation of an organisation includes establish a goal. It includes recruiting people and getting them to accept that goal.

The definition of the goals for the Taliban did not involve the US.

Once the Taliban was formed by Mullah Omar in 1994.

• They did not get any funding from the US.
• They did not get any weapons from the US.
• They did not get any military training from the US.
• They did not have any bases in the US.

They got all that from Pakistan, yet the US created the Taliban...

When the Taliban invaded Afghanistan, they fought the Mujahedin that the US trained.
Initially got severly beaten, but Pakistan stepped up their support.

By ~1990, the US was out of Afghanistan. Now it is 2018, 28 years later.
Any US trained Mujahedin would be at least 50-60 years old by now.

The Taliban movement supposedly were students, students are typically 19-25 years old.
Any such student in 1996 would barely have been 18 in 1989,
making even them not old enough to have been Mujahedin.

West created these groups, I don't care, infants did, parents did, grand parents did...bottom line west did.

Pakistan had no chance but to support and work with West else face western sanctions on one hand and Russians/indians on other and terrorists on third. Later on west left these trained terrorists along with millions of refugees for Pakistan to deal with, and Pakistan had no chance but to accept them as reality. Pakistan never trained them later on but just accepted their govt. You are just another brain washed cell dead supporter of western propaganda.

It doesn't matter who left when. It is like saying you lit the house by dropping 2 drops of petrol along with one stick a match and then left and neighbors are responsible for the house on fire.

Don't be dumb, the picture of these terrorists meeting western leaders is not of students of 18-25 y/o but of 40 to 60 y/o. Any terrorist who destroyed Pakistan after 2001 were refugees from Afghanistan.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

West created these groups, I don't care, infants did, parents did, grand parents did...bottom line west did.

Pakistan had no chance but to support and work with West else face western sanctions on one hand and Russians/indians on other and terrorists on third. Later on west left these trained terrorists along with millions of refugees for Pakistan to deal with, and Pakistan had no chance but to accept them as reality. Pakistan never trained them later on but just accepted their govt. You are just another brain washed cell dead supporter of western propaganda.

It doesn't matter who left when. It is like saying you lit the house by dropping 2 drops of petrol along with one stick a match and then left and neighbors are responsible for the house on fire.

Don't be dumb, the picture of these terrorists meeting western leaders is not of students of 18-25 y/o but of 40 to 60 y/o. Any terrorist who destroyed Pakistan after 2001 were refugees from Afghanistan.

Yes, it is always the West that is blamed whenever a Muslim kills another Muslim.
Based on your reasoning, Muslims cannot take care of themselves, and should not have full citizenship, because they are not capable of making any decisions by themselves.
Your problem is that this is not true. Afghanis made the decision to form the Taliban by themselves. Pakistanis made the decision to do what it takes to make them successful.
Otherwise You are claiming that Mullah Omar and ISI are US puppets.

The Pakistan trained Talibans FOUGHT the US trained Mujahedins, and lost.
Only when Pakistan provided massive aid to the Talibans, did they succeed.
The Taliban is 100% the creation of Pakistan, and their soldiers were recruited from Afghani regugee camps and trained by ISI. The plan failed because the Talibans refused to become Pakistani puppets. Read what Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto has to say about this,
and maybe Your confusion ends.

The fugitives were caused by the Soviet invasion. But You criticize the West because
they gave the Afghanis the means to defend themselves.

The main body of the Taliban were as in most wars, Young men.
Leaders are of course older, but did they receive combat training by the US.
I’d rather doubt that.

As for the stupid comparision, a better comparision would be that the police sneaked in some guns to bank clerks taken hostage during an armed robbery. The bank clerks barricaded themselves by the safe. The bank robbers had to leave without the money. A few years later, a son of one of the bank clerks robs the bank after getting a gun from his uncle.

Would you blame the police for the second robbery?

 

[313ghazi]

Why are these people in a shithole like Slovakia? It's full of gypsies and mules.

 

[American Pakistani]

Yes, it is always the West that is blamed whenever a Muslim kills another Muslim.
Based on your reasoning, Muslims cannot take care of themselves, and should not have full citizenship, because they are not capable of making any decisions by themselves.
Your problem is that this is not true. Afghanis made the decision to form the Taliban by themselves. Pakistanis made the decision to do what it takes to make them successful.
Otherwise You are claiming that Mullah Omar and ISI are US puppets.

The Pakistan trained Talibans FOUGHT the US trained Mujahedins, and lost.
Only when Pakistan provided massive aid to the Talibans, did they succeed.
The Taliban is 100% the creation of Pakistan, and their soldiers were recruited from Afghani regugee camps and trained by ISI. The plan failed because the Talibans refused to become Pakistani puppets. Read what Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto has to say about this,
and maybe Your confusion ends.

The fugitives were caused by the Soviet invasion. But You criticize the West because
they gave the Afghanis the means to defend themselves.

The main body of the Taliban were as in most wars, Young men.
Leaders are of course older, but did they receive combat training by the US.
I’d rather doubt that.

As for the stupid comparision, a better comparision would be that the police sneaked in some guns to bank clerks taken hostage during an armed robbery. The bank clerks barricaded themselves by the safe. The bank robbers had to leave without the money. A few years later, a son of one of the bank clerks robs the bank after getting a gun from his uncle.

Would you blame the police for the second robbery?

Omg, you are one brainwashed cell dead person. You sound like those you tube surfers who post comments like "muslims killing muslims, nice".

I already posted several sources but if you remain in your fool world then be it. It was neither afghans decision to form Taliban nor Pakistan trained them. It was the west who created and armed them to fight Soviets in order to end Soviet's super power status and create a belt of sovereign countries in eastern Europe who can act as a belt between Soviets and the west. Once west acheive your objectives, west left Pakistan to deal with millions of refugees and a troubled Afghanistan. You are so desperate that you are claiming Taliban fought mujahideen when actually both are same and they fought northern alliance who were Soviet supporters. The mujahideen that the west trained became taliban. The refugees in Pakistan were already anti Pakistanis how would Pakistan train them and use them? They later formed ttp and start aquiring Pakistani passports as did the other afghan refugees in Pakistan.Pakistan is the only nation in the world who defeated such a large scale terrorism.

Benazir or nawaz or most politicians in Pakistan will have negative things to say about military, isi, judiciary, accountability departments, some media groups, etc because they came as a barrier in between them and corruption. And do post Musharraf I wanna see what he said or you are misusing his words. It is you who are desperate and confused not me.

Taliban were Taliban and they included young, old, elderly, even teenage kids, so you are absolutely wrong.

Of course I will blame police. The bank's clerks job is related to bank, not to secure the buildings. You should not have a gun unless you don't have an armed license and are not part of police. The police dept check a long history of all recruits thouroughly before hiring them, bank doesn't do that extensive checks. Giving them guns is def asking for problems. Same goes with civilians. You are a complete laughing stock here.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Omg, you are one brainwashed cell dead person. You sound like those you tube surfers who post comments like "muslims killing muslims, nice".

I already posted several sources but if you remain in your fool world then be it. It was neither afghans decision to form Taliban nor Pakistan trained them. It was the west who created and armed them to fight Soviets in order to end Soviet's super power status and create a belt of sovereign countries in eastern Europe who can act as a belt between Soviets and the west. Once west acheive your objectives, west left Pakistan to deal with millions of refugees and a troubled Afghanistan. You are so desperate that you are claiming Taliban fought mujahideen when actually both are same and they fought northern alliance who were Soviet supporters. The mujahideen that the west trained became taliban. The refugees in Pakistan were already anti Pakistanis how would Pakistan train them and use them? They later formed ttp and start aquiring Pakistani passports as did the other afghan refugees in Pakistan.Pakistan is the only nation in the world who defeated such a large scale terrorism.

Benazir or nawaz or most politicians in Pakistan will have negative things to say about military, isi, judiciary, accountability departments, some media groups, etc because they came as a barrier in between them and corruption. And do post Musharraf I wanna see what he said or you are misusing his words. It is you who are desperate and confused not me.

Taliban were Taliban and they included young, old, elderly, even teenage kids, so you are absolutely wrong.

Of course I will blame police. The bank's clerks job is related to bank, not to secure the buildings. You should not have a gun unless you don't have an armed license and are not part of police. The police dept check a long history of all recruits thouroughly before hiring them, bank doesn't do that extensive checks. Giving them guns is def asking for problems. Same goes with civilians. You are a complete laughing stock here.

You have posted several USELESS sources, because they do not prove your point.

Is this a Taliban?

No, this is the most famous and respected Mujahedin leader - Ahmad Shah Massoud.
He was killed by the Taliban, right before 9/11.


Is this a Taliban?

No, this is Abdul Rashid Dostum, the Northern Alliance Warlord.
He fled from Mazar-i-Sharif, and the Taliban in 1998.
He was not a Soviet supporter. When the Taliban emerged things changed and the Northern Alliance did get Soviet support, but that was 6-7 years after the Soviets and the US left.

Is this a Taliban?

No this is Gulbuddin Hekmyatar. He fled from Afghanistan to Iran in 1996 after the Taliban overrun Kabul, only to return in 2006.

Is this a Taliban?

No, this is Usama bin Laden, one of the more known Arabs which went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. He allied himself with the Taliban, but noone considers him a Taliban.

Is this a Taliban?

This is Jalaluddin Haqqani. The leader of the Haqqani network.
He was fighting the Soviets way before the US got involved in supporting the Mujahedin.
He allied himself with the Talibans in 1995, and became their military leader in 2001.
He was certainly not created by the US.

Is this a Taliban?

This is Mohammad Yunus Khalis, commander under Gulbuddin Hekmyatar. He joined the Taliban after they overrun Kabul in 1996. Two years after the Taliban was created. He was not involved in the creation of the Taliban before that. He met Reagan, but as you see, he is no proof of US involvement in the creation of the Taliban. It was a done deal when he joined.

Is this a Taliban?

Yep, he is the real thing. He is the creator of the Taliban.
Was he a Mujahedin? Yes, he fought the Soviet, beeing a good marksman.
When did he found the Taliban? 1994
Was the US involved in this? No

Why did he found the Taliban?

Wiki, with all its flaws claims that Mullah Omar was the ONLY former Mujahedin involved in the creation of the Taliban.

Back to the police.
The police gives guns to the bank clerks which defend the bank from robbers.
Then an uncle gives a different gun to the son, which robs the bank.
The second bank robbery should be blamed on the police?

 

[American Pakistani]

You have posted several USELESS sources, because they do not prove your point.

Is this a Taliban?
View attachment 494467
No, this is the most famous and respected Mujahedin leader - Ahmad Shah Massoud.
He was killed by the Taliban, right before 9/11.


Is this a Taliban?
View attachment 494468
No, this is Abdul Rashid Dostum, the Northern Alliance Warlord.
He fled from Mazar-i-Sharif, and the Taliban in 1998.
He was not a Soviet supporter. When the Taliban emerged things changed and the Northern Alliance did get Soviet support, but that was 6-7 years after the Soviets and the US left.

Is this a Taliban?
View attachment 494470
No this is Gulbuddin Hekmyatar. He fled from Afghanistan to Iran in 1996 after the Taliban overrun Kabul, only to return in 2006.

Is this a Taliban?
View attachment 494471
No, this is Usama bin Laden, one of the more known Arabs which went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. He allied himself with the Taliban, but noone considers him a Taliban.

Is this a Taliban?

View attachment 494478
This is Jalaluddin Haqqani. The leader of the Haqqani network.
He was fighting the Soviets way before the US got involved in supporting the Mujahedin.
He allied himself with the Talibans in 1995, and became their military leader in 2001.
He was certainly not created by the US.

Is this a Taliban?

View attachment 494476
This is Mohammad Yunus Khalis, commander under Gulbuddin Hekmyatar. He joined the Taliban after they overrun Kabul in 1996. Two years after the Taliban was created. He was not involved in the creation of the Taliban before that. He met Reagan, but as you see, he is no proof of US involvement in the creation of the Taliban. It was a done deal when he joined.

Is this a Taliban?
View attachment 494479

Yep, he is the real thing. He is the creator of the Taliban.
Was he a Mujahedin? Yes, he fought the Soviet, beeing a good marksman.
When did he found the Taliban? 1994
Was the US involved in this? No

Why did he found the Taliban?

View attachment 494480

Wiki, with all its flaws claims that Mullah Omar was the ONLY former Mujahedin involved in the creation of the Taliban.

Back to the police.
The police gives guns to the bank clerks which defend the bank from robbers.
Then an uncle gives a different gun to the son, which robs the bank.
The second bank robbery should be blamed on the police?

Dude your knowledge about this region is zero. It is just based on nonsense propaganda you view on western media who even claim that Pakistan is filled up with terrorists and if you leave your house there are bomb blasts going on every 2nd street. I've educated many such as yourself here in US, some of who understand reality now and others are very thick and they keep repeating their nonsense, I hope you are not the latter kind. The west trained these mujahideens and then left the mess for Pakistan to sort. These mujahideen start fighting each other and many became taliban. Pakistan had zero choice because it was already sanctioned under presseler amendment and can't fight these mujahideens/Taliban who were now very deadly as they have western weapons, trainings, experience, high moral after defeating soviets. You can't just train group of mercenaries and throw the burden on someone else who is actually very poor too. How about if China train some mereneries next to your border, supplying them with SAMs, aa guns, etc etc?

And lol at wiki being your source while I provided you western state's official sites or western news agencies.

Lol, you first said that police gave the gun to clerk and then the clerk gave it to his son or relative, now you are trying to run away from your own comments. Clear sign of confusion.

Anyways police is 100% responsible, they should've never handed guns to unlicensed people, God knows what was their bakground.

How about we talk about a scenerio, you dropping 2 drop of petrol and 1 match stick and later claiming innocence cuz 2 drop is nothing. Lol. ..that is how your brain works.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Dude your knowledge about this region is zero. It is just based on nonsense propaganda you view on western media who even claim that Pakistan is filled up with terrorists and if you leave your house there are bomb blasts going on every 2nd street. I've educated many such as yourself here in US, some of who understand reality now and others are very thick and they keep repeating their nonsense, I hope you are not the latter kind. The west trained these mujahideens and then left the mess for Pakistan to sort. These mujahideen start fighting each other and many became taliban. Pakistan had zero choice because it was already sanctioned under presseler amendment and can't fight these mujahideens/Taliban who were now very deadly as they have western weapons, trainings, experience, high moral after defeating soviets. You can't just train group of mercenaries and throw the burden on someone else who is actually very poor too. How about if China train some mereneries next to your border, supplying them with SAMs, aa guns, etc etc?

And lol at wiki being your source while I provided you western state's official sites or western news agencies.

Lol, you first said that police gave the gun to clerk and then the clerk gave it to his son or relative, now you are trying to run away from your own comments. Clear sign of confusion.

Anyways police is 100% responsible, they should've never handed guns to unlicensed people, God knows what was their bakground.

How about we talk about a scenerio, you dropping 2 drop of petrol and 1 match stick and later claiming innocence cuz 2 drop is nothing. Lol. ..that is how your brain works.

The US trained these guys, but they fought between themselves before the US entered,
and they fought between themselves after the US exited.

They Afghanis are 100% responsible for their own actions.


And no, I said the police hands a gun to a clerk.
Later the uncle hands a gun to the son.
It is not the same gun.

Your petrol fable is hardly relevant.
If handing a gun to someone automatically means that person will go on a killing spree,
and this is a known fact, then your petrol fable would have any relevance.

I know how to fire various firearms since my year in the Swedish Army.
I probably got a lot more training than those Taliban got from the US
Still, I have not even considered going out killing anyone.

If I did out and shoot someone, that would be my responsibility, not that of the Army.

Likewise, it is the responsibility of each and every Afghan to act for the best of the society.
That the Taliban act like rabid dogs is noones responsibility except the Talibans and those that choose to support them.

And no, Pakistan had the choice of not supporting any faction.
They choose to try to get influence by massively supporting the Taliban, which backfired.

 

[American Pakistani]

The US trained these guys, but they fought between themselves before the US entered,
and they fought between themselves after the US exited.

They Afghanis are 100% responsible for their own actions.


And no, I said the police hands a gun to a clerk.
Later the uncle hands a gun to the son.
It is not the same gun.

Your petrol fable is hardly relevant.
If handing a gun to someone automatically means that person will go on a killing spree,
and this is a known fact, then your petrol fable would have any relevance.

I know how to fire various firearms since my year in the Swedish Army.
I probably got a lot more training than those Taliban got from the US
Still, I have not even considered going out killing anyone.

If I did out and shoot someone, that would be my responsibility, not that of the Army.

Likewise, it is the responsibility of each and every Afghan to act for the best of the society.
That the Taliban act like rabid dogs is noones responsibility except the Talibans and those that choose to support them.

And no, Pakistan had the choice of not supporting any faction.
They choose to try to get influence by massively supporting the Taliban, which backfired.

They used to fight but nowhere close to how they does today. Afghanistan was way more developed than the stoneage junk that we see today. And the west is responsible for this mess. The killing of 90k Pakistanis is also on western govts who supported these groups. Afghanis are only partially responsible.

Lol, the way you switched your gun story is just hilarious. Sign of clear confusion. You first said the police handed the gun to clerk. Now you are coming up with new nonsense. Anyways it is just a nonsense story as it doesn't match with that scenerio.

The petrol story is just slapping you hard into reality so you are running like a headless chicken, that's all my dude. You leary know what I'm talking about but are just ignoring it. You can't hand guns to hundreds of thousands of people to fight a military. Did you ran a background check on them? You created terrorists, accept this fact.

I'll say it openly and clearly, you are acting very thick and dumb. You are comparing yourself with bunch of lawless people who cannot be tracked, most of them don't even have an id card. They are responsibility of those govts in the west who created them. Recent example is you are creating kurd terrorists, tomorrow you will claim they are responsibility of Turkeye, Iran, Iraq and Syria.

Pakistan did not have choice but to accept the neighboring govt, just like South Korea have no choice but to accept North Korean govt. Why do you want to destroy Pakistan by sanctioning it on one side, militarizing india on other and then creating these groups on third.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

As for the stupid comparision, a better comparision would be that the police sneaked in some guns to bank clerks taken hostage during an armed robbery. The bank clerks barricaded themselves by the safe. The bank robbers had to leave without the money. A few years later, a son of one of the bank clerks robs the bank after getting a gun from his uncle.

Would you blame the police for the second robbery?

For those that are incapable to read and understand.
Nowhere here it is said that it is the same gun.

 

[Tiberius]

Then why sell Ferraris, Masaratis etc.. to Muslims countries if you don't want them in your countries then don't sell or buy from from don't visit their countries?

I never visit a muslim country in my life. I fly to Australia in 2 weeks and we have transfer in Dubai. We had the chance to stay one day there but i rejected. We land, wait 2h and board other plane to Australia.

Also to buy Maseratis and ferrari, they dont have to come here.