The collapse of the Philippine-American alliance? Thread for ongoing events.

[xunzi]

We need to know what exactly does the Phillipines want? Any Pinoy can tell me what exactly is your bottom line in the SCS?

 

[anon45]

As I stated in my opening post, this is both for positive and negative developments for the US Philippines alliance given the erratic state it seems to be in.

So here is yet another u-turn... or is it damage control for inevitable events? does it make a difference?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rodrigo-du...=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo

Rodrigo Duterte forced to retract US military deal comments
Firebrand Filipino leader had said there could be no peace in the south with US troops stationed there.

• 
  
  By Callum PatonSeptember 13, 2016 13:43 BST
  
  Updated 4 hr ago

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Philippines President Duterte expresses ‘regret’ for comments on Obama IBTimes US
Controversial Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte has been forced into an embarrassing U-turn over inflammatory comments he made saying US troops based in the country needed to leave.

Duterte, who has made a series of rhetorical attacks against the US – the Philippines longest-standing military ally – has been forced to retract his statement that the southern Philippines "would never have peace" while allied with Washington.

US says no official request from Duterte government to withdraw American troops from Philippines

• Philippines denies claims that Duterte gave Indonesia 'go ahead' to execute Mary Jane Veloso on drug smuggling charges

• Shocking photos of the crystal meth epidemic sweeping South East Asia

The firebrand leader has since said the Philippines would not "cut our umbilical cord" with allies. Political and military officials have scrambled to explain what Duterte meant by his remarks on 12 September.

He attacked the US over atrocities under American colonial rule and said troops stationed in the south of the country have impeded counter-insurgency efforts against the Islamic-State linked group Aby Sayyaf.

Filipino Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay said Duterte's comments were not a signal that a pact between Washington and Manilla would end."The president has said ... that we will respect and continue to honour our treaty obligations and commitments," he was quoted as saying.

"Philippine-US defence relations remain rock solid," armed forces spokesman Brigadier-General Restituto Padilla echoed.

Philippines President Rodrigo Dutert eattacked the US over atrocities under American colonial rule and said troops stationed in the south of the country were impeding counter insurgency effortsErik De Castro/Reuters
It is not the first time Duterte has had to explain his forceful invective. The Filipino leader calledboth US President Barack Obama and his ambassador to Manila a "son of a bitch" ahead of a scheduled summit between the two leaders. Obama cancelled the meeting.

Duterte has also hit out at the United Nations, calling the international organisation a "son of a whore" and saying he would unilaterally withdraw the Philippines from the UN.

In the end Duterte's foreign minister had to explain the Philippines had no intention of leaving the UN or start a parallel organisation with China and African nations.

 

[Anjo]

Respect for rule of law and respect for the state is needed to limit corruption. I don't see the first happening, and the second only flows from either the first, or fear of the state.

SCS issue aside, I have to disagree with you on this last point of yours and I'll try to give context to the issues Duterte faces internally as much as I can. As much as I love the Philippines, much of it is a frustratingly lawless place. For decades since the Marcos era, Filipinos have seen the ruling elite rob the country blind by lining their own pockets at the expense of the ordinary person. Nothing has changed in the country despite numerous changes in leadership promising to remedy the situation and despite economic growth levels that would have us salivating in the West. For years Filipinos have had to put up with greedy and indifferent politicians, not to mention incredibly high levels of poverty - it is estimated that about 10% of the population are working abroad to put food on the table for their families back home. It is hardly surprising that Filipinos have had enough! For years Filipino citizens have been begging Duterte to run for President - he has resisted this but in the last year, as election fever grew, the movement grew stronger and stronger. Filipinos are sick and tired of being "the sick man of Asia" (at grassroots level, it still is) and recognise tough medicine is necessary to remedy the ailing country. It has to start at the top tackling corruption with the plans to have a clean police force, one that enforces the law without personal gain and brings corrupt politicians, judiciary and government officials to task. But Duterte also has no time for the scourge that is drug dealing - his talk is tough but it has cleaned up Davao and the hope is that his successful brand of medicine could be translated across the country.

As someone who has voted and lives in a very liberal minded country, normally I would not support a politician with extreme views such as Duterte, but having spent a lot of time in the Philippines I know that tough medicine is needed and what is more, its citizens want that too. Yes he is a rough talking man who shoots from the hip, but he speaks the language of the people while having the benefit of training as a lawyer.

There is the undimmed arrogance that Westerners know best and that what works in the West must be good for everywhere else in the world. This seems to have been one of the underlying philosophies of most colonial powers. I am sure that Duterte also shares this exact same view, and one need not be surprised at the way he treats America the way he treats them now.

 

[hoangsa74]

China is working around the clock to have the phil n u.s terminate the mdt. Once china accomplishes that, china can easily take over the islands held by the Philippines. Chinese plan is to attack the phil first without giving them a chance to pause n think because if china attack the viet first, the phil might react, stop,and think n go back to the u.s for help. Of all the scs claimants the phil is the toughest opponent to crack for china because the phil have a mdt with the u.s. once china can finish off the phil china can easily rape the viet n take over their islands.

Make no mistake about it. China is not interested in the status quo in the scs. Only the viet n now the phil are dumb enough to believe in that. Chinese policy is to take over the scs n history has proven it. China took over the eastern paracels in 1956, attacked the western paracels in 1959 but failed, suceeded in taking over the western paracels in 1974, succeeded in expanding into the spratly in 1988 n will succeed in taking over the rest of spartly islands before 2020

 

[Anjo]

once china can finish off the phil china can easily rape the viet n take over their islands.

Way to give up all of China's secrets. Great strategy there bud.

 

[anon45]

SCS issue aside, I have to disagree with you on this last point of yours and I'll try to give context to the issues Duterte faces internally as much as I can. As much as I love the Philippines, much of it is a frustratingly lawless place. For decades since the Marcos era, Filipinos have seen the ruling elite rob the country blind by lining their own pockets at the expense of the ordinary person. Nothing has changed in the country despite numerous changes in leadership promising to remedy the situation and despite economic growth levels that would have us salivating in the West. For years Filipinos have had to put up with greedy and indifferent politicians, not to mention incredibly high levels of poverty - it is estimated that about 10% of the population are working abroad to put food on the table for their families back home. It is hardly surprising that Filipinos have had enough! For years Filipino citizens have been begging Duterte to run for President - he has resisted this but in the last year, as election fever grew, the movement grew stronger and stronger. Filipinos are sick and tired of being "the sick man of Asia" (at grassroots level, it still is) and recognise tough medicine is necessary to remedy the ailing country. It has to start at the top tackling corruption with the plans to have a clean police force, one that enforces the law without personal gain and brings corrupt politicians, judiciary and government officials to task. But Duterte also has no time for the scourge that is drug dealing - his talk is tough but it has cleaned up Davao and the hope is that his successful brand of medicine could be translated across the country.

As someone who has voted and lives in a very liberal minded country, normally I would not support a politician with extreme views such as Duterte, but having spent a lot of time in the Philippines I know that tough medicine is needed and what is more, its citizens want that too. Yes he is a rough talking man who shoots from the hip, but he speaks the language of the people while having the benefit of training as a lawyer.

There is the undimmed arrogance that Westerners know best and that what works in the West must be good for everywhere else in the world. This seems to have been one of the underlying philosophies of most colonial powers. I am sure that Duterte also shares this exact same view, and one need not be surprised at the way he treats America the way he treats them now.

You have brought up points agreeing with my statement that the Philippines has had to deal with endemic corruption, but im not sure where you brought the points that cause you to disagree with the statement of mine that you quoted.

Respect for rule of law and respect for the state is needed to limit corruption. I don't see the first happening, and the second only flows from either the first, or fear of the state.

I can't find what you have provided that disagress with this. You have stated that perceived American arrogance (an anti-American attitude I think we both can agree) informs Duterte's decisions, we agree there too. All of this is in no way related to what I said.

Where have you exactly disagreed with what I said? Do you think corruption can be limited by some element other than respect for the state or fear of the state?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Nice move by Philippines why be play ground for war

 

[Jlaw]

It will only happen if China were wise enough to seize this moment, and come to a settlement with Philippines. Something that both sides can agree on, like perhaps withdrawing from Scarborough Shoal, in exchange of Philippines acceptance of Chinese sovereignty on other islands, or something.

Duterte's 5 years are the best chance China will get to advance its interests. It would be foolish to miss this opportunity by not finalizing a deal with Philippines.

Huangyan Island was always Chinese territory. Get this fact straight before you continue to make foolish remarks

China is working around the clock to have the phil n u.s terminate the mdt. Once china accomplishes that, china can easily take over the islands held by the Philippines. Chinese plan is to attack the phil first without giving them a chance to pause n think because if china attack the viet first, the phil might react, stop,and think n go back to the u.s for help. Of all the scs claimants the phil is the toughest opponent to crack for china because the phil have a mdt with the u.s. once china can finish off the phil china can easily rape the viet n take over their islands.

Make no mistake about it. China is not interested in the status quo in the scs. Only the viet n now the phil are dumb enough to believe in that. Chinese policy is to take over the scs n history has proven it. China took over the eastern paracels in 1956, attacked the western paracels in 1959 but failed, suceeded in taking over the western paracels in 1974, succeeded in expanding into the spratly in 1988 n will succeed in taking over the rest of spartly islands before 2020

sell this script to Hollywood

 

[Cossack25A1]

As I stated in my opening post, this is both for positive and negative developments for the US Philippines alliance given the erratic state it seems to be in.

So here is yet another u-turn... or is it damage control for inevitable events? does it make a difference?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rodrigo-du...=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo

Rodrigo Duterte forced to retract US military deal comments
Firebrand Filipino leader had said there could be no peace in the south with US troops stationed there.

• 
  
  By Callum PatonSeptember 13, 2016 13:43 BST
  
  Updated 4 hr ago

CLOSE
Embed Feed
Philippines President Duterte expresses ‘regret’ for comments on Obama IBTimes US
Controversial Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte has been forced into an embarrassing U-turn over inflammatory comments he made saying US troops based in the country needed to leave.

Duterte, who has made a series of rhetorical attacks against the US – the Philippines longest-standing military ally – has been forced to retract his statement that the southern Philippines "would never have peace" while allied with Washington.

US says no official request from Duterte government to withdraw American troops from Philippines

• Philippines denies claims that Duterte gave Indonesia 'go ahead' to execute Mary Jane Veloso on drug smuggling charges

• Shocking photos of the crystal meth epidemic sweeping South East Asia

The firebrand leader has since said the Philippines would not "cut our umbilical cord" with allies. Political and military officials have scrambled to explain what Duterte meant by his remarks on 12 September.

He attacked the US over atrocities under American colonial rule and said troops stationed in the south of the country have impeded counter-insurgency efforts against the Islamic-State linked group Aby Sayyaf.

Filipino Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay said Duterte's comments were not a signal that a pact between Washington and Manilla would end."The president has said ... that we will respect and continue to honour our treaty obligations and commitments," he was quoted as saying.

"Philippine-US defence relations remain rock solid," armed forces spokesman Brigadier-General Restituto Padilla echoed.

Philippines President Rodrigo Dutert eattacked the US over atrocities under American colonial rule and said troops stationed in the south of the country were impeding counter insurgency effortsErik De Castro/Reuters
It is not the first time Duterte has had to explain his forceful invective. The Filipino leader calledboth US President Barack Obama and his ambassador to Manila a "son of a bitch" ahead of a scheduled summit between the two leaders. Obama cancelled the meeting.

Duterte has also hit out at the United Nations, calling the international organisation a "son of a whore" and saying he would unilaterally withdraw the Philippines from the UN.

In the end Duterte's foreign minister had to explain the Philippines had no intention of leaving the UN or start a parallel organisation with China and African nations.

The question is, for how long can the US can tolerate this as the US have a knack on having "certain policies" in regards to countries that have hostile views against them? Will it lead to the cancellation of EDCA and the 1951 MDT between the PH and US?

While Duterte is trying to balance the PH foreign policy that will accommodate both the USA and China, his attacks against the US shows that he is veering PH foreign policy towards China, particularly on the economic side given recent news that he seeks agricultural help from China.

The post-1986 government can be seen as the reason my many Filipino voted for Duterte as he did show, during the election period, that he is different from the other presidential candidates, and was the result of the less-to-no infrastructure development during the 2010-16 Aquino administration.

The only thing Aquino did right was bring the Scarborough issue to the international court even though the said court has no capability to enforce the verdict, but because there are almost no infrastructure development, and the rampant corruption, people turned to Duterte in the hopes he would bring change.

 

[Brainsucker]

The Philippine foreign policy is a bit confusing. Because they can easily change their policy / side just after they have a new president. This is bad for them. Because other countries can become nervous to befriend them. Noynoy oppose China, spark unnecessary problem in 2012 that pushed Philippine to a serious confrontation. Then now, Duterte oppose US and spark another unnecessary problem to the country.

The best course for Philippine is not open a new confrontation like that, but to balance the two giants; China and US; rather than become the pawn of one of them. Because if they are trapped in a confrontation, when the war coming, it is the Philippine people who suffer, as they will become the buffer / proxy.

Don't positioned yourself inside the power struggle between two big powers who aim for Global Domination, Stay neutral. embrace both side; for the sake of your people.

 

[Brainsucker]

@kecho, and other posters, don't start China vs Vietnam SCS claim all over again. This thread is about Duterte and Philippine. Let us talk about Duterte and Philippine

Btw MODS, @Shotgunner51, @ahojunk, there are a lot of Duterte threads in this subforum, why won't we combine them all, as they talk about the same thing after all.

 

[Baybars Han]

Lets all remember the Moro genocide by USA. After massacre and genocide to native americans, defenceless moro's, women and children massacred by americans. Bud Dajo Massacre will be remembered!

 

[anon45]

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/09/15/1623983/us-troops-remain-mindanao-dnd

Seems the Military is saying Duterte is full of it?

US troops to remain in Mindanao – DND
By Jess Diaz (The Philippine Star) | Updated September 15, 2016 - 12:00am
1 702 googleplus0 0

In this Aug. 5, 2016 photo, President Rodrigo Duterte, flanked by Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana and Armed Forces of the Philippines chief of staff Lieutenant General Ricardo Visaya, speaks to members of the AFP Central Command in Camp Lapu-Lapu, Cebu City. PPD/Ace Morandante
Yasay meeting with Kerry in Washington
MANILA, Philippines – American soldiers will remain in Mindanao despite President Duterte’s pronouncement that he wanted them out of the region so they won’t be targeted by members of the Abu Sayyaf, Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said yesterday.

“We still need them there because they have the surveillance capability that our Armed Forces don’t have,” Lorenzana told the House appropriations committee.

He was responding to questions raised by leftist lawmakers who said they were not only supporting Duterte’s statement but would want all American troops in Mindanao and other parts of the country to leave for good.

Lorenzana said there are 107 US soldiers based in Zamboanga City conducting surveillance operations in Zamboanga, Basilan, Sulu and Tawi-Tawi to help the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) fight terrorists.

“They are using two types of assets: a small aircraft with night flying capability and three drones,” he said.

In many cases, he said the Americans send their surveillance assets to areas identified by the AFP.

He added that of the 107, 50 are Marines, 17 are Army soldiers and 20 belong to Special Forces units.

Lorenzana pointed out the chances of the Americans being attacked or kidnapped by the Abu Sayyaf – as voiced out by the President – are a remote possibility. [My comment: As if anyone believed this as the legitimate reason anyways!]

“They are located in a compound inside Camp Navarro in Zamboanga City. If they go out of the camp, they are either accompanied by our soldiers or are armed. Remember that these US soldiers are combatants,” he said.

He said US soldiers in Mindanao used to number 600 a few years ago. “Before, they were embedded with our units in the field up to the brigade level,” he said.

He later told reporters that the country needs its military alliance with the US and the agreements on cooperation the two nations have signed like the Visiting Forces Agreement and the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA).

He said he has explained the importance of the alliance and the agreements to Duterte.

“I think it’s just right for us to remain allied with the US. They are still the dominant military force in this part of the Pacific. Our neighbors – Japan, Australia, South Korea – have military alliance with the US,” he said.

Under EDCA, the defense chief said American troops have been given access to five military camps – Basa Air base in Floridablanca in Pampanga, Fort Magsaysay in Nueva Ecija, Mactan Air base in Cebu, Lumbia Air base in Cagayan de Oro City, and a camp in Palawan.

“We are spending for our facilities in these camps and the Americans are spending for their facilities,” he said.

At Camp Aguinaldo, AFP public affairs office chief Col. Edgard Arevalo said a withdrawal by the Americans would be a bane to the military’s counterterrorism efforts.

He said US forces have been providing intelligence information and technical assistance to the military. They also provide humanitarian and disaster assistance to communities, he added.

He expressed confidence Duterte’s pronouncements would not affect existing agreements like the EDCA. Duterte, he pointed out, made the pronouncement out of concern for the safety of US forces. “They could be victims of retaliation,” he said of the US soldiers. [My comment: Again, who really believed this?]

AFP spokesperson Brig. Gen. Restituto Padilla earlier echoed Lorenzana’s explanation of Duterte’s asking for a US pullout.

“Pursuant to the same statement, he (Duterte) desires that our American counterparts should be eased from harm’s way. This refers to Western Mindanao where intense focused military operations combatting terrorism are ongoing,

“We take due notice of the pronouncement of the Commander-in-Chief President Duterte expressing his concern of the safety of US Servicemen in Mindanao,” he added.

For his part, AFP chief of staff Gen. Ricardo Visaya said the military is verifying information that the terrorist group ISIS is in contact with the Abu Sayyaf whose members are on the run due to intensified military operation.

“We have the Abu Sayyaf under control in Basilan. We are now pursuing them in Sulu,” he said.

During the hearing, appropriations committee members reiterated their concern for the ballooning appropriations for pension benefits for retired AFP personnel.

They noted that the military would need P44 billion next year for pension, an amount that is P12 billion bigger than its operating budget of P32 billion.

President Duterte himself has called for reforming the pension-retirement system in the military.

Ready to explain
Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. , meanwhile, said he is ready to explain the President’s pronouncement to Secretary of State John Kerry – if asked – at a private dinner with heads of state and foreign ministers to be hosted by the US official.

Yasay left Tuesday night for Washington before proceeding to New York to represent Duterte in the United Nations General Assembly.

DFA spokesman Charles Jose said no one-on-one meeting has been requested or arranged between Yasay and Kerry.

“I’m not sugarcoating it at all. You cannot dissociate, for instance, the fact that when he said that he wants the Americans out, you dissociate it from the fact that he said that he does not want these Americans to be harmed or be killed. This was the context,” Yasay said in an interview on News To Go.

“If Secretary of State John Kerry will ask me these questions, I will say the very things to him, and he will understand that. Alam niya naman na walang pagbabago ang (He knows there is no change in) policy,” he said.

Jose also said Yasay is set to meet with Millennium Challenge Corp. (MCC) chief executive officer Dana J. Hyde and speak before the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

He will also meet with the US-Philippine Society and the Filipino community at the Philippine embassy in Washington as well as with senior leaders of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Jose said Malacañang had already clarified the Philippines is not cutting its defense alliance with the US.

On Tuesday, Yasay said Duterte’s call for the withdrawal of US Special Forces from Mindanao was not an indication of policy shift as all agreements and treaties with the US would remain, including one allowing increased US military presence in the country.

He echoed the President’s explanation that the latter merely wanted the American soldiers out of harm’s way when expressed his wish that they leave Mindanao. Duterte had said the US presence in Mindanao was complicating Philippine security forces’ anti-terror operations. - With Pia Lee-Brago, Cecille Suerte Felipe
_____________________________________
The circus continues...