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The Cold Start Doctrine Watch.

Balochistan, E.Pakistan, funding terrorism in Pakistan etc.

Now, you'll just deny all of these and say "Oh oh what proof do you have" ...and these lines of yours show how belligerent indians are, when given chance.

Inside, you guys 'enjoy' the deaths of thousands of Pakistanis and feel 'good' that RAW/Indians have a part to play in this game of destruction going on in Pakistan. From outside, you guys tend to act innocent and demand 'proofs'---just to make this even more 'fun'.

The only bad part is : Pakistan knows exactly what kind of people indians are...hence, you aint gonna see any slowing down of military build-up by Pakistan :cheers:


'Moral support', just like you provide moral support in Kashmir. Stop the moral supporting and we will stop too. Else stop bringing up Balochistan.
 
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Cold start is actually where IA trolled PA,ia never made any major reorganization to its corps structure.Still same 3 strike corps and other pivot corps structure.There has been no formation of super duper IBG,lol.And look at all these members getting worked up.CS was mostly stunt.:)

It does appear that CDS was a concept that was entertained by the IA General Staff to discuss an alternative where punitive strikes can be carried out before reaching Pakistan's nuclear threshold. It genuinely appears that this idea was deeply studied by the Indian War Planners, but it was abandoned and India is still training to fight on Corps Level.

But as a Pakistani, we owe you guys a big 'Thank You'. This doctrine kick started projects that were bottled up for PA. PA has heavily poured resources into making the force much more mobile with increased accurate firepower. This was perfectly demonstrated by PA during the Azm e Nau exercises when PA's Armour in tandem with Mechanized Assets data-linked through a network centric system executed manoeuvres. Thus, in short 'Thank You' :)

Right to target? Yeah sure, but capacity after a debilitating first strike will be much reduced.

It would be quite foolish on your part to assume that Pakistan will not detect Indian nuclear rockets getting fuelled up.

Yup after all, only Pakistanis have the brains & the equipment to fight a war, Indians will just run around aimlessly(like they have done previously) & won't know much about war fighting..........

Instead of trolling, why don't you refute the post?

Notorious please read up on the CSD. You are misinformed on the point and objectives of CSD.

Believe me, i have read every piece of literature i could find that was published on the net.
 
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Balochistan, E.Pakistan, funding terrorism in Pakistan etc.

Now, you'll just deny all of these and say "Oh oh what proof do you have" ...and these lines of yours show how belligerent indians are, when given chance.
India would logically want to grow and follow the trajectory that we have set after long years of debt and god-awful poverty.
Every country's long-term goal is prosperity and so is ours.
For us the fight is to maintain politcal status-quo over all our (India-Pakistan, India-China, etc) mutual issues of discord.
The classical Indian opinion is to defend the territories inherited from the British.
Having said that, the most fearful scenario for us is to have an 'unstable' neighbour, riddled with internal strife and uncertainity.
The prospect of not knowing who is accountable in Pakistan and who to engage with is a policy nightmare.
This was seen recently when actions were attributed to 'non-state actors' by the GoP.

Waging a War with Pakistan would be a long-term losing proposition for the following reasons:
a) Will put a big dent in our economy
b) Will kill the possibility of trade with a good market in Pakistan
c) Industries, dams, power stations, railways,roads,ports,etc will be damaged directly
d) FDI/FII will stop and stock markets will fall
e) May result in high war time taxes and most importantly,
f) Will weaken us and increase the gap viz-a-viz China which to many is a far greater threat

Though war does momentarily increase the GDP, but the effect will be muted and swallowed shortly by us fighting a war right around our own territory (which is not the case with US which has had good periods of economic growth after conflicts save for the recent ones which follow a deviation from their economic policies...discussing which will take our discussion sideways)

So, in order to make more money, we want to continue growing as a global services powerhouse and make money by sharpening our competitive edge and not actively incite Pakistan into an armed conflict. We have followed this recently by not engaging Pakistan after the Mumbai attacks. It was clearly voiced by Dr. Singh and co. that we want to help the civilian government.
This course has been taken by the Americans as well who offlate have had problems dealing with Pakistan.
They want a strong federally controlled and responsible government in Pakistan.

A great threat from India would be a trade imbalance. War would not happen unless thrust upon us.
Now I can't categorically prove what I have said also , but I do believe that you'd get the logic in my drift.

Inside, you guys 'enjoy' the deaths of thousands of Pakistanis and feel 'good' that RAW/Indians have a part to play in this game of destruction going on in Pakistan. From outside, you guys tend to act innocent and demand 'proofs'---just to make this even more 'fun'.
That's a blame nobody can back.
Personally, I do not enjoy the deaths of other people who have families and want to provide for their kin and live a simple life.
You have to belive that there are humans living on this side of the border too and we do not find joy in murder.
We lived together for centuries. Have cultural anf even family ties across the border. My own maternal side is from Sialkot.

The joy we get with cultural exchanges of students, atrists or with sport testifies that the pursuit of peace is both sought and logical.
Please do not dehumanize a nation by sweeping statements like these.
The only bad part is : Pakistan knows exactly what kind of people indians are...hence, you aint gonna see any slowing down of military build-up by Pakistan :cheers:

As long as your military stays withing your borders.
As long as you view us as a threat that can only be dealt with force, you stand to harm your own growth.
 
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Why are you being thick?
Ofcourse it is expected. This fact has been apparent for over a decade.

When Indian military crosses Pakistani thresholds, Pakistan will (now) use a tac nuke to target an IBG.
The entire point is that Delhi will respond with tac nukes further and more than one.

The result is that whatever the outcome - ie GoI getting Pakistan to agree to its demands or not, Pakistan has still been nuked 3 times.

So Pakistan still losses in any and all cases.

You don't get it, once Pakistan nukes that first IBG all Pakistani nukes will be on standby. Guess what? Even if India decides it will do a limited retaliation on 2 installations Pakistan will just fire all nukes in its arsenal for the very reason you just stated, Pakistan is in Chaos if Punjab is brought to ruin so if that must happen India will burn as well. Call it Pakistan version of the Samson option if you will or as we call it, the Samosa. :D

@Hyperion

Good lord.
Great to see that Pakistan has lowered its threshold for nuclear engagement. It still does not change much. Indian forces still know before going in that if they succeed, there is a high possibility of atleast one of the IBG's being obliterated.

Pakistan still does not use nukes till its conventional defences have been broken and IBG's are inside Pakistani territory.

Any use of nukes at that point on Indian IBG will result in
1. Pakistani strike on IBG on Pakistani soil.
2. Indian retaliatory tactical strike on Pakistani forces on Pakistani soil.

In either case, Pakistani soil gets nuked multiple times while Indian mainland is sitting safe from nukes.

:cuckoo:

Boy you will be in for a surprise if God forbid your scenario plays out. :coffee:
 
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Mamba my boy, we have a much refined strategy than what you put forward.

Pakora Option = India only.
Jalaibi Option = All moslem Middle Eastern friends.
Halva Option = Only qualified Middle Eastern friends. (UAE/Qatar)
Samosa Option = All Middle Eastern friends + India.

So you see, we have a step-wise approach to all threats.


You don't get it, once Pakistan nukes that first IBG all Pakistani nukes will be on standby. Guess what? Even if India decides it will do a limited retaliation on 2 installations Pakistan will just fire all nukes in its arsenal for the very reason you just stated, Pakistan is in Chaos if Punjab is brought to ruin so if that must happen India will burn as well. Call it Pakistan version of the Samson option if you will or as we call it, the Samosa. :D

@Hyperion
 
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Mamba my boy, we have a much refined strategy than what you put forward.

Pakora Option = India only.
Jalaibi Option = All moslem Middle Eastern friends.
Halva Option = Only qualified Middle Eastern friends. (UAE/Qatar)
Samosa Option = All Middle Eastern friends + India.

So you see, we have a step-wise approach to all threats.

:rofl: :rofl: So this is where we disagree, besides India imo only UAE and Qatar have a chance of getting smacked.
 
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It would be quite foolish on your part to assume that Pakistan will not detect Indian nuclear rockets getting fuelled up.

Facepalm_9a08b9_59080.jpg


Nuclear tipped missiles used by Army, SFC, and Navy are all solid fueled... which is put there right at manufacturing and not just before launch.

Other than that I would like to know the means of detection and Early warning system Pakistan has to detect Indian missile launches several 100s or 1000km inside Indian territory... and from Under the sea.
 
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You don't get it, once Pakistan nukes that first IBG all Pakistani nukes will be on standby. Guess what? Even if India decides it will do a limited retaliation on 2 installations Pakistan will just fire all nukes in its arsenal for the very reason you just stated, Pakistan is in Chaos if Punjab is brought to ruin so if that must happen India will burn as well. Call it Pakistan version of the Samson option if you will or as we call it, the Samosa. :D


Boy you will be in for a surprise if God forbid your scenario plays out. :coffee:

You don't get it... you are not the Chief of SFC/President of India... the Response according to GOI would be massive... or does massive equates to 2 in Pakistan ?

Not only Punjab all of Pakistan from top to bottom would be brought to Nuclear waste.

You still surprised ?
 
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It does appear that CDS was a concept that was entertained by the IA General Staff to discuss an alternative where punitive strikes can be carried out before reaching Pakistan's nuclear threshold. It genuinely appears that this idea was deeply studied by the Indian War Planners, but it was abandoned and India is still training to fight on Corps Level.

But as a Pakistani, we owe you guys a big 'Thank You'. This doctrine kick started projects that were bottled up for PA. PA has heavily poured resources into making the force much more mobile with increased accurate firepower. This was perfectly demonstrated by PA during the Azm e Nau exercises when PA's Armour in tandem with Mechanized Assets data-linked through a network centric system executed manoeuvres. Thus, in short 'Thank You' :)
It would foolish to think that they abandoned the idea, if you watch carefully the Indian war games, with huge volume, happening every now and then.

It is good that PA got network centric capabilities and show cased it. Years will take to get such capabilities to acquire coz of large level deployment specially in sub Continent.
 
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I am saying the decision of whether India walks away or not is not up to India -- it is up to Pakistan.

Therein lies the crucial difference between a superpower like the US and India. The US can force that decision onto the adversary; India can not.

P.S. I am always happy to educate Indians that they are not a military superpower like the US and should not expect to act as such.

Why are you bringing in the US and Israel? It has nothing to do with being a "superpower" or India being weak but the crucial difference is geography- the US sits thousands of miles away from any serious threats and its enemies don't have any practical way of taking the fight to the US homeland. India sits next its main adversary which just happens to be nuclear armed.


If the US was so powerful they'd have attacked Pakistan by now but it is faced with the same nuclear detterant as India- Pakistan has them and has said it is willing to use them.


The US and Isreal are more used to figting rag-tag militias not full scale wars against sizable militaries with nukes!!
 
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Well for those people who thought there is no chance of another war between Pakistan and india, think again. india is preparing itself and we cannot be complacent. Remember the old saying, 'Hope for the Best, prepare for the Worst.'
India can never be trusted, to those who want peace with india, to them i say sure go ahead and try it. But beware the baniya, he is going to attack you from behind when you are not looking. I have known many indians and have argued on the same topic many times, about partition and I can understand their pysche. To them loosing Pakistan is a deep wound and they want it back.
 
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Well for those people who thought there is no chance of another war between Pakistan and india, think again. india is preparing itself and we cannot be complacent. Remember the old saying, 'Hope for the Best, prepare for the Worst.'
India can never be trusted, to those who want peace with india, to them i say sure go ahead and try it. But beware the baniya, he is going to attack you from behind when you are not looking. I have known many indians and have argued on the same topic many times, about partition and I can understand their pysche. To them loosing Pakistan is a deep wound and they want it back.
someone talking about kagil (stabbing back) and loosing kashmir, then bangaldesh. oh mean i don't understand what they teaches in pak text book about pakistan .....why dont they teach pak reality.
 
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You don't get it, once Pakistan nukes that first IBG all Pakistani nukes will be on standby. Guess what? Even if India decides it will do a limited retaliation on 2 installations Pakistan will just fire all nukes in its arsenal for the very reason you just stated, Pakistan is in Chaos if Punjab is brought to ruin so if that must happen India will burn as well. Call it Pakistan version of the Samson option if you will or as we call it, the Samosa. :D

:cuckoo:

Boy you will be in for a surprise if God forbid your scenario plays out. :coffee:

I, for one will keep it simple. No first use means no first use. Period. We fight a conventional war, within a few days other nations start to put pressure for a ceasefire. Ceasefire is achieved. Territories won and lost are reverted to status quo. This is one scenario, albeit not the only one.

However, once a nuke been fired. I will prefer to end the menace once and for all. Better to destroy pakistan and being chewed out by international community for 2 decades than keep rebuilding nation for 5 decades.
It would be foolish to fire a couple of missiles and then wait for either a massive response or end of war. Dice could roll either way. So better to control the outcome early.

Take into account that most in pakistan are incapable of rational thinking and our options become all to clear.
 
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You don't get it... you are not the Chief of SFC/President of India... the Response according to GOI would be massive... or does massive equates to 2 in Pakistan ?

Not only Punjab all of Pakistan from top to bottom would be brought to Nuclear waste.

You still surprised ?

Obviously you have not been following the conversation. Pay attention before you quote.
 
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