**The Bottom Line: China Seen as Just a Pushover Fragile Power by USA**

[gambit]

Just because the US doesn't fear China doesn't mean the US views China as a fragile pushover. you are moving between 2 extremes.

I was about to say something like that. But good for pointing that out.

 

[senheiser]

so the US is a push over power too? we lectured you in Syria. This is all media hype, they hype some destroyer on water and downplay Russias air strikes in syria. But i agree china should just bomb and sink one US destroyer or bomb the water.

 

[Genesis]

Greetings fellow PDF members,

IMO, I think since China still does not have a gigantic deep blue water navy with 10 or so aircraft carrier groups like the US Navy does, I can expect USA to continue to treat China as a weak fragile pushover in her Asian backyard (South China Sea) through the year 2018/2020. Here in America, I definitely do not see a sense of fear of China's naval capabilities. China's PLA navy is still seen as "child level" as compared to the American navy. Definitely most Americans here do not really fear if the PLA navy is capable of invading American shores. We in the US still do not see China as capable of establishing her long-term naval presence and patrols around Guam, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. We all just say, "Meh, whatever." And laugh at loud. Until China reaches the level of naval capability and size that exceeds the USA's, Washington will not really respect China's territorial space on her side of the world. You all should have notice by now how both Japan and the USA do not respect nor fear China's claim over the Diaoyu Islands. The USA will continue to throw its military weight around in China's regional space. Thus, potentially more and more series of US Navy patrols close to Chinese islands post 2015. By now, you all should not be shocked nor surprised by what the US Navy would do, can do, and will do in the South China Sea. China should not be shocked nor surprised by it either. IMO, China will need to match up and build up her PLA naval might as much as she can and as fast as she can in order to induce REAL FEAR and RESPECT from Japan and USA on her side of the world. And that is the bottom line... What are your elaborate thoughts?

@gambit @TaiShang @Nihonjin1051 @C130 @F-22Raptor @anon45 @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @Chinese Bamboo @EAsian @utp45 @pher @Martian2 @Sanchez @Jlaw @Place Of Space @terranMarine @phancong @Dungeness @Solomon2 @Keel @tranquilium @xunzi

Think about the history first.

1960s, full on economic sanctions.
1989, sanctions against China on all military hardwares.
1996 threatening China with two carriers

I say this is a step forward, keep in mind China still is just above half of US' economic size, about 1/8 of US per capita, less than 1/3 military spending.

The fact China can get this from the US, it's a step up. Considering it's currently sanctioning even Russia.

What you got to ask yourself is, what are the US patrols doing REALLY. Does it undermine Chinese military industry? Does it undermine Chinese economy? Does it do anything that have any tangible effect?

The US, if anything, is looking for a reaction. Without a reaction, the US has no real excuse to do anything. China needs time still. Blindly challenging US is like Prussia challenging Napoleon, total defeat, wait for it like Bismark and charge when the timing is right. Having an audience with a Napoleon is always quite interesting.

 

[Huan]

Just because the US doesn't fear China doesn't mean the US views China as a fragile pushover. you are moving between 2 extremes.

I was about to say something like that. But good for pointing that out.

In principle, if your opponent/rival is weak and fragile as compared to you, you do not fear him or her. Thus, the USA does not really fear China militarily in her backyard for that reason, IMO. Otherwise, Washington would not have taken unilateral military measures in the South China Sea in the first place.

 

[Kyle Sun]

All of you guys are just too high now.

 

[Huan]

All of you guys are just too high now.

Maybe, but it makes the PDF forum discussion less dull.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Maybe, but it makes the PDF forum discussion less dull.

Well , that's the reason why I do not visit PDF everyday .

Once something happens ,like TPP, I will check out here because I know I will see a lot of troll show here.

 

[Yizhi]

Somehow the whole episode in the SCS looks like pre-arranged show with backdoor dealing already struck.

good to know i'm not the only one feel like this.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China's fighting style is unpredictable and totally different.

To believe China needs 10 CVN battlegroups in order to become number one is simply pure naivety.

The real duel between the major powers is not the supercarrier, since it cannot even last for a single day in a real full scale warfare.

In principle, if your opponent/rival is weak and fragile as compared to you, you do not fear him or her. Thus, the USA does not really fear China militarily in her backyard for that reason, IMO. Otherwise, Washington would not have taken unilateral military measures in the South China Sea in the first place.

China + Russia has only two ski-jump conventional carriers compared to the ten Nimitz class nuclear supercarriers possessed by the US.

But do you think the US has the capability to take on China and Russia at the same time?

The supercarrier is just adding up your projection capability around the world, but China has added a new projection capability called as the HGV, which is purely used for the total destruction with the conventional weapons, almost as powerful as the nuclear weapons.

 

[sicsheep]

They did park at a port in Hong Kong if I remembered correctly. Including the US aircraft carrier.

if you count a visit authorized by the Chinese government , then PLAN parked in Pearl Harbor too lol

I think US Navy should come more often, PLA is not the one getting thier budget cut

 

[anon45]

In principle, if your opponent/rival is weak and fragile as compared to you, you do not fear him or her. Thus, the USA does not really fear China militarily in her backyard for that reason, IMO. Otherwise, Washington would not have taken unilateral military measures in the South China Sea in the first place.

The US telegraphed its moves a month in advance to give China time to prepare for it. That hardly sounds like the US considers China incapable.

The US was going to do this either way, whether it was China or the Soviet Union, FoN patrols have been going on since 1977, its a longstanding US policy and freedom of navigation for all vessels according to international law is critical to our interests.

It would have set a terrible precedent for a country to claim waters and territory based on man made islands with no challenge, as well as be contrary to international law.

China couldn't have stopped it short of war, and no one expected China to risk war, troll warmongers on here aside.

 

[21stCentury]

China should have rammed the U.S. ship until they leave our vicinity. What is the United States doing here in the first place? Freedom of what? Freedom of navigation? Lol get that buIIshit outta here.

Still many in the PRC government want to keep good relations with the U.S. despite being harassed by the U.S. -- this is the corruption in China.

When the U.S. stated that they were coming, China should have issued a response Ok if you come here you will be attacked -- but China kept silent right when the come has come.

 

[Jlaw]

China should have rammed the U.S. ship until they leave our vicinity. What is the United States doing here in the first place? Freedom of what? Freedom of navigation? Lol get that buIIshit outta here.

Still many in the PRC government want to keep good relations with the U.S. despite being harassed by the U.S. -- this is the corruption in China.

When the U.S. stated that they were coming, China should have issued a response Ok if you come here you will be attacked -- but China kept silent right when the come has come.

Corruption and afraid to lose all the wealth that has been accumulated. Some high military officials need to be reprimanded, especially the guy who said China will not do anything should the US incur in the 12nm zone.

 

[Speeder 2]

Greetings fellow PDF members,

IMO, I think since China still does not have a gigantic deep blue water navy with 10 or so aircraft carrier groups like the US Navy does, I can expect USA to continue to treat China as a weak fragile pushover in her Asian backyard (South China Sea) through the year 2018/2020. Here in America, I definitely do not see a sense of fear of China's naval capabilities. China's PLA navy is still seen as "child level" as compared to the American navy. Definitely most Americans here do not really fear if the PLA navy is capable of invading American shores. We in the US still do not see China as capable of establishing her long-term naval presence and patrols around Guam, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. We all just say, "Meh, whatever." And laugh at loud. Until China reaches the level of naval capability and size that exceeds the USA's, Washington will not really respect China's territorial space on her side of the world. You all should have notice by now how both Japan and the USA do not respect nor fear China's claim over the Diaoyu Islands. The USA will continue to throw its military weight around in China's regional space. Thus, potentially more and more series of US Navy patrols close to Chinese islands post 2015. By now, you all should not be shocked nor surprised by what the US Navy would do, can do, and will do in the South China Sea. China should not be shocked nor surprised by it either. IMO, China will need to match up and build up her PLA naval might as much as she can and as fast as she can in order to induce REAL FEAR and RESPECT from Japan and USA on her side of the world. And that is the bottom line... What are your elaborate thoughts?

@gambit @TaiShang @Nihonjin1051 @C130 @F-22Raptor @anon45 @Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @Chinese Bamboo @EAsian @utp45 @pher @Martian2 @Sanchez @Jlaw @Place Of Space @terranMarine @phancong @Dungeness @Solomon2 @Keel @tranquilium @xunzi

IMO, NO.

On the surface China's top braases got it wrong, otherwise this blunder of the obama would have had consequences so huge that US couldn't afford to bear.

The attitude towards china's weak navy in the US is the result of American ignorance( well, that seems not new, but histotic, or permanent to be precise), and China's long term tactical goal of hiding the true capabilities. Make no mistake, the battlefield is not in the middle of the deep blue, but right under china's nose . The most recent showcase of df21d and df26 seem left the American top strategic security think tank in a coma that it forgets to imform the pantagon what it gets into in the S China sea.

But China just made a grave calculatoon mistake that left obama off hook, at least that us what it looks like. It is a strategic fight in essence, hence no hard power, aka all those CBGs, are even needed to win the fight. In other words, even if China had 0 warship, if she had shown 10 percent of the guts of what Putin shows, the americans would have backed down this time in SCS.

given that china's top think tanks would have never made such a blunder, my second thought , what I truly believe, is that there is a behind-door deal btw China and US, in which China let the US win this round of propaganda war of monkeying in SCS, in exchange China has got benefits in other fields in return. So it is 1:1.

 

[Aepsilons]

IMO, China will need to match up and build up her PLA naval might as much as she can and as fast as she can in order to induce REAL FEAR and RESPECT from Japan and USA on her side of the world. And that is the bottom line... What are your elaborate thoughts?

Calm down bro, there's no need to be this sensitive and think that there's no respect given by the other side. Differentiate between a regular passex in a regional context. This doesn't change anything, just a geopolitical statement.