The 2016 Epidemic of Afghan War Amnesia

[Rasengan]

And you know this being a Pakistani and sitting in Malaysia, thank you for deciding on behalf of Afghans but luckily the US and the world in general is not run by idiots. This massive assistance until 2020 shows that the Pakistani narrative vis-a-vis Afghanistan has failed and the world believes in Afghan investment.

The Afghan parliament and the NUG ratified the treaty in a matter of days because we understand the importance of international presence.

Instead of playing arm chair general, please shift your rear end and look at the ground realities of Afghanistan How many general have been killed in the last one month? What is the causality rate of solders compared to last year? Billions of dollars have been squandered and stolen by the Afghan elite, has anyone been prosecuted? The United States is run by idiots because they were the ones who invaded Iraq and ISIS is the by product of their policies. How long can the American's provide assistance? Pakistan can continue this game for another century. By then the American's will be bankrupted

 

[nangyale]

True, although Afghanistan does have tremendous amount of resources along with the other Central Asian nations. But more importantly the yanks wanted to disarm Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, yet they failed in the last 15 years. Now they want to leave the country with some dignity. Notice in the US election, Afghanistan was not mentioned once. @A-Team and his fellow countrymen have gone past their sale date.

I wouldn't say @A-Team and his countrymen. It's more like the Kabuli clan, living in a bubble trying their utmost to deny what's happening around them.

That is the kind of BS I am talking about ( no offense meant ). Afghanistan has signed a strategic agreement with the US meaning, that they will stay here, and we want them to stay here. When we stand on our feet as it is happening right now, we will still be a strategic base of the US and Western forces. So let's get that straight.

So it is ok for communist China and Red russians to operate in Pakistan but it is bad bad for the US to stay in Afghanistan, that is double standards I am talking about.

Telling the truth is not BS. It's your Ostrich like behaviour which is making you angry and blind.
Tell me about your strategic agreement with the US. Let's see what you provide and what you get in return.

• Do you get a security guarantee in this agreement (i-e if Afghanistan is attacked by an outside power the US will defend you)?
• Does Afghan law prevail when US personnel are involved. (Meaning what will happen if an Afghan woman is rapped by US soldier, or hospital is blown by US bombers, could the US personnel be prosecuted under Afghan law in an Afghan court, on Afghan soil)

I can go on about this but I will let you answer these two first before we can continue this conversation, as your normal behaviour is just to ignore the topic when something is not to your liking.

 

[wiseone2]

Afghan is a lost cause. a non-Muslim country has no business trying to FIX it or make things worse.

What has being Muslim got to do with fixing Afghanistan ?

 

[A-Team]

I wouldn't say @A-Team and his countrymen. It's more like the Kabuli clan, living in a bubble trying their utmost to deny what's happening around them.



Telling the truth is not BS. It's your Ostrich like behaviour which is making you angry and blind.
Tell me about your strategic agreement with the US. Let's see what you provide and what you get in return.

• Do you get a security guarantee in this agreement (i-e if Afghanistan is attacked by an outside power the US will defend you)?
• Does Afghan law prevail when US personnel are involved. (Meaning what will happen if an Afghan woman is rapped by US soldier, or hospital is blown by US bombers, could the US personnel be prosecuted under Afghan law in an Afghan court, on Afghan soil)

I can go on about this but I will let you answer these two first before we can continue this conversation, as your normal behaviour is just to ignore the topic when something is not to your liking.

Please read the agreement its posted on the MOF site, all questions you raised are answered there.

http://mfa.gov.af/Content/files/BSA ENGLISH AFG.pdf

There is no bubble Pakistan tried her level best to change the narrative vis-a-vis Afghanistan and the world threw it in your face, by continuing multibillion dollor investment until 2020. This is the reality and not usually shown on PTV
You need to get of your bubble there is not returning back to your 5th province anymore, you need to treat Afghanistan as sovereign nation or risk be sidelined as you are right now. [ refer to dawn article on how the civilians are trying to wake up the GHQ ]

 

[Rasengan]

There is no bubble Pakistan tried her level best to change the narrative vis-a-vis Afghanistan and the world threw it in your face, by continuing multibillion dollor investment until 2020. This is the reality and not usually shown on PTV
You need to get of your bubble there is not returning back to your 5th province anymore, you need to treat Afghanistan as sovereign nation or risk be sidelined as you are right now. [ refer to dawn article on how the civilians are trying to wake up the GHQ ]

Stop smoking dodgy weed A few billion dollars over a 5 year period hardly constitutes to building a nation. Pakistan in the first phase of CPEC will get $46 billion of investment..can you tell the difference We don't need the world to change its view, because the Taliban are taking more territory and eventually the voice of the Kabul elite will be silenced and then Pakistan will be in the driving seat. When that day comes which is soon, then I want to hear your reaction. Be patient my friend the game has only just begun. By the way that Dawn article was BS and to this day I am waiting to hear which diplomats in China have pressurized Pakistan. I have some good links in their Government so I know for a fact that you were spewing nonsense.

 

[nangyale]

Please read the agreement its posted on the MOF site, all questions you raised are answered there.

http://mfa.gov.af/Content/files/BSA ENGLISH AFG.pdf

There is no bubble Pakistan tried her level best to change the narrative vis-a-vis Afghanistan and the world threw it in your face, by continuing multibillion dollor investment until 2020. This is the reality and not usually shown on PTV
You need to get of your bubble there is not returning back to your 5th province anymore, you need to treat Afghanistan as sovereign nation or risk be sidelined as you are right now. [ refer to dawn article on how the civilians are trying to wake up the GHQ ]

Dude I don't watch PTV and am not living in Pakistan currently.
Pakistan is not framing any narrative regarding Afghanistan. As far I can observe Pakistan is actually trying it's best to wash it's hands off the problem of Afghanistan, hence the deadlines for refugees. If Pakistan was interested in running an insurgency in Afghanistan then we will keep the refugees and recruit fighters from among them to fight. The way it was done against the Soviets. As far the donor money is concerned, it actually just shows how utterly dependent Afghanistan is on foreigners and the current set-up can only continue with the infusion of massive amount of donor money without which it would be every warlord for himself, pulling the country apart.
By the way Pakistan already has a fifth province it's called Gilgit-Baltistan.

I know the answers already I thought by answering the questions you will be able to see what's actually happening, rather than the feel good rhetoric that you post here day in day out. But anyways to help you and the readers out.

• The US is not providing any security guarantee against third parties.
• The US personnel are not under Afghan law.

Which basically means that the US is paying the rent-seekers in Kabul to do whatever it pleases with the rest of the country and can throw you to the dogs if the goings get tough.

 

[A-Team]

Dude I don't watch PTV and am not living in Pakistan currently.
Pakistan is not framing any narrative regarding Afghanistan. As far I can observe Pakistan is actually trying it's best to wash it's hands off the problem of Afghanistan, hence the deadlines for refugees. If Pakistan was interested in running an insurgency in Afghanistan then we will keep the refugees and recruit fighters from among them to fight. The way it was done against the Soviets. As far the donor money is concerned, it actually just shows how utterly dependent Afghanistan is on foreigners and the current set-up can only continue with the infusion of massive amount of donor money without which it would be every warlord for himself, pulling the country apart.
By the way Pakistan already has a fifth province it's called Gilgit-Baltistan.

I know the answers already I thought by answering the questions you will be able to see what's actually happening, rather than the feel good rhetoric that you post here day in day out. But anyways to help you and the readers out.

• The US is not providing any security guarantee against third parties.
• The US personnel are not under Afghan law.

Which basically means that the US is paying the rent-seekers in Kabul to do whatever it pleases with the rest of the country and can throw you to the dogs if the goings get tough.

Did you read the agreement? Did you see the agression part?

What do you think are the US currently doing in Afghanistan, selling pancakes? They are actively paying for the ANSF in terms of money, equipment and training to fight your proxies. What do you call this? Even a monkey can can infer that they are helping us fight your aggression.

PS : I am not calling you a monkey, it is just a figure a speech implying that it is easy to put the dots together.

Peace

 

[nangyale]

Did you read the agreement? Did you see the agression part?

What do you think are the US currently doing in Afghanistan, selling pancakes? They are actively paying for the ANSF in terms of money, equipment and training to fight your proxies. What do you call this? Even a monkey can can infer that they are helping us fight your aggression.

PS : I am not calling you a monkey, it is just a figure a speech implying that it is easy to put the dots together.

Peace

Are you playing master of the spin here?
What are you Ghani's pesonal spin doctor on PDF?
Tell me what you understand about protection against third party agression? Fighting insurgencies is one thing getting into open conflict with another soverign state is completely other.
The US provides a security guarantee to South Korea and it doesn't to Afghanistan. Although it has troops deployed in both these countries. Go check the difference.

You might get away with such stupid spin in your local bar. But here when everything can be checked and challenged you need to up your game.
By the way I have twice ignored your indirect personal attacks. Don't make it a habbit, I can reply in kind, although I wouldn't like to loose civility in a public forum

 

[A-Team]

Are you playing master of the spin here?
What are you Ghani's pesonal spin doctor on PDF?
Tell me what you understand about protection against third party agression? Fighting insurgencies is one thing getting into open conflict with another soverign state is completely other.
The US provides a security guarantee to South Korea and it doesn't to Afghanistan. Although it has troops deployed in both these countries. Go check the difference.

You might get away with such stupid spin in your local bar. But here when everything can be checked and challenged you need to up your game.
By the way I have twice ignored your indirect personal attacks. Don't make it a habbit, I can reply in kind, although I wouldn't like to loose civility in a public forum

I am not spin doctor, it is what is written on the agreement which is publicly available on the MOF site, and based that US is helping NUG both economically and militarily against a security threat it faces, the amount of assistance is provided based on the actual threat now if Afghanistan were to face an actual war then then level of assistance will be matched.
Billions spent every year by the US shows that commitment which was agreed in the pact.
What is the difference between S.Korea and Afghanistan? Afghanistan is not facing a nuclear blackmail at the moment and thus assistance provided is different based on the level of threat.
Not sure which part is hard to comprehend?

BTW where did I attack you personally? I clarified in the last post that I use it as a figure of speech.

 

[nangyale]

I am not spin doctor, it is what is written on the agreement which is publicly available on the MOF site, and based that US is helping NUG both economically and militarily against a security threat it faces, the amount of assistance is provided based on the actual threat now if Afghanistan were to face an actual war then then level of assistance will be matched.
Billions spent every year by the US shows that commitment which was agreed in the pact.
What is the difference between S.Korea and Afghanistan? Afghanistan is not facing a nuclear blackmail at the moment and thus assistance provided is different based on the level of threat.
Not sure which part is hard to comprehend?.

Yet more spin.
I asked you two simple questions, instead of answering you have gone completely politican like.

The simple fact of the matter is that the US doesn't provide security guarantee to Afghanistan against another state. That was one of the main reasons why Karzai refused to sign the agreement as long as he remained president.
You can try and spin it as much as you want but the fact remains that the US is paying the Kabulis to use Afghanistan for it's purposes and if you get yourself in a conflict with any other country directly, the US can just wash it's hands off you.
Also remember the US personnel are not accountable to Afghan law. So in a way they can kill, rape and humiliate you if the like, and no one will be prosecuted under Afghan law in an Afghan court.
Enjoy your strategic partnership.

BTW where did I attack you personally? I clarified in the last post that I use it as a figure of speech.

Thatswhy I said indirectly. Let's not play games here. Shall we?

 

[Khan_21]

I am not spin doctor, it is what is written on the agreement which is publicly available on the MOF site, and based that US is helping NUG both economically and militarily against a security threat it faces, the amount of assistance is provided based on the actual threat now if Afghanistan were to face an actual war then then level of assistance will be matched.
Billions spent every year by the US shows that commitment which was agreed in the pact.
What is the difference between S.Korea and Afghanistan? Afghanistan is not facing a nuclear blackmail at the moment and thus assistance provided is different based on the level of threat.
Not sure which part is hard to comprehend?

BTW where did I attack you personally? I clarified in the last post that I use it as a figure of speech.

Lets get into this so called us-afg strategic relationship . The war has cost america $1 trillion . $100 billion on rebuilding of the country(I am sure 95 % of that is looted by afghan warlords) . They pay your bills , give salaries for your armed forces and pretty much 50-70 % of your country is run by US money . There is a reason afghanistan wasn't even mentioned in the presidential debate because the war has been a big time failure according to american reports . So you have cost them trillions of dollars what is it that afghanistan is offering them exactly ? Strategic relationship is give and take not being spoon fed by one party . What exactly is afghanistan offering america in this relationship in return for all the billions they have spend? .

 

[wiseone2]

Lets get into this so called us-afg strategic relationship . The war has cost america $1 trillion . $100 billion on rebuilding of the country(I am sure 95 % of that is looted by afghan warlords) . They pay your bills , give salaries for your armed forces and pretty much 50-70 % of your country is run by US money . There is a reason afghanistan wasn't even mentioned in the presidential debate because the war has been a big time failure according to american reports . So you have cost them trillions of dollars what is it that afghanistan is offering them exactly ? Strategic relationship is give and take not being spoon fed by one party . What exactly is afghanistan offering america in this relationship in return for all the billions they have spend? .

I sense a bitterness on behalf of Pakistanis
To answer the question the Afghans are not offering Americans much

• The US is not providing any security guarantee against third parties.

Did USA provide security guarantee for Pakistan against India ? Why would Afghanistan be any different ?

 

[Khanate]

Did you read the agreement? Did you see the agression part?

What do you think are the US currently doing in Afghanistan, selling pancakes? They are actively paying for the ANSF in terms of money, equipment and training to fight your proxies. What do you call this? Even a monkey can can infer that they are helping us fight your aggression.

PS : I am not calling you a monkey, it is just a figure a speech implying that it is easy to put the dots together.

Peace

Pakistan struct far more comprehensive military alliances under CENTO and SEATO. As for the "aggression" clause, it has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. More importantly, US made zero commitment in the clause other than saying it "shall regard with grave concern any external aggression". Seriously, LOL.

 

[A-Team]

Pakistan struct far more comprehensive military alliances under CENTO and SEATO. As for the "aggression" clause, it has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. More importantly, US made zero commitment in the clause other than saying it "shall regard with grave concern any external aggression". Seriously, LOL.

Swiss cheese

 

[TMA]

Please read the agreement its posted on the MOF site, all questions you raised are answered there.

http://mfa.gov.af/Content/files/BSA ENGLISH AFG.pdf

There is no bubble Pakistan tried her level best to change the narrative vis-a-vis Afghanistan and the world threw it in your face, by continuing multibillion dollor investment until 2020. This is the reality and not usually shown on PTV
You need to get of your bubble there is not returning back to your 5th province anymore, you need to treat Afghanistan as sovereign nation or risk be sidelined as you are right now. [ refer to dawn article on how the civilians are trying to wake up the GHQ ]

And Afghanistan needs to get rid of her visceral arrogance and totally and completely accept Pakistan. Remember it was Afghanistan which started aggression against Pakistan and continued this insolence until Pakistan gave reply. And even then Afghanistan did not listen.