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Thar Coal: claims vs facts

I always had doubts about this immense wealth. The above article makes a lot of sense. I think we are yet again been fooled that somehow we will be rich.

No, Actually You pakistanis are being fooled that you can not be rich.
You have everything. The day when ur politicians start keeping Pakistans national interests first, Pakistani people will be rich the next five years.
 
No, Actually You pakistanis are being fooled that you can not be rich.
You have everything. The day when ur politicians start keeping Pakistans national interests first, Pakistani people will be rich the next five years.

Actually no. They're not being fooled by these facts, they're being fooled by the exaggerated figures like billions of tons of high quality coal, no energy deficiency, more energy than Saudi Arabia, and all that stuff.

Things like these motivate people, and make them think that the future is bright, all this is just to deviate their attention, and not let them know how incompetent the government has been.

Sure there is Coal, and it should be extracted, but people should not be fooled with false info. All this super inflated info fills them with nationalistic feelings, and they lose all senses of fact and myth.

No scientific analysis has been done till date, and other than magnetic evidence, there has been nothing. The govt has been thumping its chest for the 180 billion tons of Coal, and it has not been proven yet. There have just been talks and nothing else. Till the time people come to know about the truth, the govt would have completed their term, and possibly won the next election too. For the next election, they will come up with some other agenda.
 
Enjoyed this quote:

"Pakistan is unlikely to generate any power from Thar coal before 2016. Feasibility should be completed …by the end of 2010. Then one year for financial close and then four years of execution, which means the end of 2015."


The fact is that first 100MW of electricity will be generated from gassified Thar coal in March/April 2011. At that point we should invite the author to put his foot in his mouth... or even better, skip the foot, put some of that "low grade" Thar coal in his mouth instead.
 
The results, good or bad, will be before all to see soon enough. I wish the project good luck despite my doubts.
 
Today i was in Dara Adam khel and a local guy told me that the mountains of Dara Adam khel are full of Coal.Even he(that guy) got his own two mountains which are full of Coal.And they take out 20 trucks per day.Price of one truck of Coal is 1 Lakh Rs.

Some one knows about it ? or can some one verify this ?
 
Today i was in Dara Adam khel and a local guy told me that the mountains of Dara Adam khel are full of Coal.Even he(that guy) got his own two mountains which are full of Coal.And they take out 20 trucks per day.Price of one truck of Coal is 1 Lakh Rs.

Some one knows about it ? or can some one verify this ?

Highly doubtful. Mountains don't have coal on the upper layers. Coal is beneath the upper layers. Needs heavy equipment to mine it. Also govt won't allow individuals to own mountains.

A mine needs investment in millions of dollars, and no single person can support it.
 
Highly doubtful. Mountains don't have coal on the upper layers. Coal is beneath the upper layers. Needs heavy equipment to mine it. Also govt won't allow individuals to own mountains.

A mine needs investment in millions of dollars, and no single person can support it.


The thing is they got heavy machinery and this is Pakistan :P

People got there own mountains.and not just Coal mountains also Marbel.Marbel ones are in my area called Prang Gar.(Jaguar Mountain)
 
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Highly doubtful. Mountains don't have coal on the upper layers. Coal is beneath the upper layers. Needs heavy equipment to mine it. Also govt won't allow individuals to own mountains.

A mine needs investment in millions of dollars, and no single person can support it.
well you are not right Jagjitnatt,

rarely i disagree with your posts btw...

1) I have seen layers of coal on top of the mountain - visible from far away. So we don't really have to go underneath to start mining it. You can also start mining from outside

or perhaps the amount of coal was too much in that area of Punjab that it was even visible from far away. I have my own picture there near the coal mountain from where you can clearly see the coal behind. It was on top of the mountain (or should I say the whole mountain was made of coal with mixture of other natural reserves such as Salt etc?) and you could literally touch with your hand or break it a part by using an ordinary shovel

2) In Pakistan, thousands of peoples are relying on coal industry like Pakhtoon mentioned in his post. They go to the mountains, dig coal and sell in the market. They are not discouraged by the Government authorities...Its how they earn their bread n butter
 
The results, good or bad, will be before all to see soon enough. I wish the project good luck despite my doubts.

You are feel free to doubt Sir,

But just one question. How India is able to generate about 87,000MW of electricity by Coal? or how China has installed capacity of 484GW by Coal? Of course they would also be running the same technology as planned by us?

People's Daily Online -- Capacity of China's straw-fueled power plants reaches 1.2 mln kw

Do you know, part of India's coal production is also being produced from Thar coal deserts which is part of the same Thar coals in Pakistan. These deserts are stretched in Balochistan, Sindh & Indian territory so I won't be surprised if we can also generate couple of thousands of MW from Coal :yahoo:

Yes quality matters... but not all coal in India is of good quality too
 
Highly doubtful. Mountains don't have coal on the upper layers. Coal is beneath the upper layers. Needs heavy equipment to mine it. Also govt won't allow individuals to own mountains.

A mine needs investment in millions of dollars, and no single person can support it.


Yous shouldn't doubt it as i belong to the area, can tell you that people own coal mines, contracted to specialized companies to extract coal at agreed terms. Few of these mines are quite visible from Indus Highway where coal oftenly transported from high ground. There is a village who owe a mine receive Rs.6000 per head each month.
 
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Actually no. They're not being fooled by these facts, they're being fooled by the exaggerated figures like billions of tons of high quality coal, no energy deficiency, more energy than Saudi Arabia, and all that stuff.

Things like these motivate people, and make them think that the future is bright, all this is just to deviate their attention, and not let them know how incompetent the government has been.

Sure there is Coal, and it should be extracted, but people should not be fooled with false info. All this super inflated info fills them with nationalistic feelings, and they lose all senses of fact and myth.

No scientific analysis has been done till date, and other than magnetic evidence, there has been nothing. The govt has been thumping its chest for the 180 billion tons of Coal, and it has not been proven yet. There have just been talks and nothing else. Till the time people come to know about the truth, the govt would have completed their term, and possibly won the next election too. For the next election, they will come up with some other agenda.

Famous MNC firm BP has displayed on its website regarding discovery of 180 billion tons of coal.
Will u please do the favour by giving a few examples of exaggerated figures and differentiate them with real figures ?
So that Pakistanis dont get fooled by exaggerated figures.
 
These claims are made in July this Year. But in recent interview of Dr. Samar Mubarak Mand in this month on Geo TV and Express News has confirmed the resources. Which are equals to generation of 50000 Mega Watt electricity for 500 years, plus we can also produce Diesel from that coal.
 
I have previously posted a speech on economics where the speaker told of this tremendous reserve almost two years ago!!!
 
It Is High Time To Give A Detailed Point By Point Rebuttal Of This Intellectual Terrorist

Fact 1: Pakistan's proven reserves of bituminous or anthracite (higher-quality) coal are next to nothing. Pakistan's proven reserves of sub-bituminous and lignite reserves (lignite is brown coal, the lowest-ranked coal) stand at 3,050 million tons, which amounts to 0.3 per cent of the global total. (Source: BP Statistical Review of World Energy.)

Rebuttal:Here Is The BP Statistical Review of 2010 Thank You SpArk
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_int...l_review_of_world_energy_full_report_2010.pdf

The Figure of 175 Billion Tons Has Been Verified By An Organization No Less Than USGS.

Fact 2: In 1981, Pakistan produced 1.6 million tons of coal. Over the past 25 years our coal production has steadily gone up and we currently produce around 4.3 million tons a year, or a meagre 0.6 percent of world production. Asad Umar, president of Engro Corporation Limited, the company that has signed a joint venture with the government of Sindh for Thar Block II, has this to say on the subject: "One cannot make a direct comparison between oil and coal because oil travels very well and coal does not, and therefore oil dominates the energy market. So even if your [coal] reserves are bigger than Saudi Arabia's [oil reserves], it doesn't mean that you are going to become a Saudi Arabia of energy. And given that we don't have the best-quality coal, we have lignite coal which is very high in moisture, it's not going to be a globally traded commodity. It's not that we will start exporting 10 million barrels of oil energy per day."

Rebuttal:
1 Ton of Lignite Coal=2.053 Barrel Oil
So 175 Billion Tons=359.275 Barrel Oil
Saudi Arabian Proven Reserves Are 262 Barrels Oil and By The Way Dr Sahib Who Told You That Thar Coal Is Going To Be Traded Globally.All Planning and Projects Regarding Thar Coal Are With The Intention To Utilise It To Feed Our Economy and Industry.


Fact 3: Leading financial institutions around the world have long discontinued the financing of coal-fired power plants. According to Engro, "Pakistan is unlikely to generate any power from Thar coal before 2016. Feasibility should be completed …by the end of 2010. Then one year for financial close and then four years of execution, which means the end of 2015."

Rebuttal:
This Is Wrong.According To Holland Based Think Tank on Banking Practices,BankTrack,Since 2005,93 of The World Leading Banks Poured Billions Of Dollars Into Financing Coal Based Power Plants.Since 2005, financing of the construction of coal-fired power plants by JPMorgan Chase has exceeded $22 million. Following closely behind JPMorgan Chase are Citigroup ($18.6 million), Bank of America ($17 million), and Morgan Stanley ($16.4 million). Overall financing for new construction by the 93 banks since 2005 has totaled $313.5 billion. Furthermore, the report points out, financing for the coal industry in 2010 was almost twice as high as it was in 2005.
Although Adhering To The Requirements Of Corporate Social Responsibility,Banks Tend To Favour More Environmentally Friendly Projects Like Solar, Wind and Clean Coal.For This They Come Up With Different Goals Like The Equator Principles and Carbon Principles(Upto What Extent They Act Upon It Is Another Question).But It Is Totally Wrong To Say That They Have Stopped Financing Coal Power Plants.


Fact 4: As a matter of record, in the early 1990s, it was the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), actually looking for water, which first identified the presence of coal deposits in Thar.

This Is Response To A Plain Conspiracy Theory. No Technical Arguements Required Here.


Fact 5: The South African company Sasol (Suid Afrikaanse Steenkool en Olie) has been producing petrol and diesel from coal (through the Fischer-Tropsch process). In essence, coal gasification is a proven technology. Thar coal can potentially be converted into gas, but the question that is yet to be answered is: will such conversion be cost-effective and economically viable?

Rebuttal:
Dr Sahib Do You Honestly Believe That Spending More Than $8 To 10 Billion in Precious Foreign Exchange Reserves and Still Enduring Long Periods of Load Shedding and Gas and Petrol Shortages Is Economically Viable and Cost Effective Then I Can Only Advise You To See An Applied Psychiatrist.


Fact 6: There is not a single scientific study on record that claims that Thar coal is both technologically and economically viable. Technical and economic feasibility studies are yet to be undertaken. At the same time, "regional geologic conditions, coal seam continuity, structure, quality, topography, altitude, slope, surface drainage patterns, groundwater conditions, availability of labour and materials, coal purchaser requirements, capital investment requirements" and environmental impact are yet to be ascertained.

Rebuttal:
Nothing Can Be Further From The Truth.Multiple Reports Covering Different Aspects of Thar Coal Have Been Made.Thar Coal Discovered accidentally in the year 1989, during an exploration project of defunct SAZDA (Sindh Arid Zone Development Authority) to find drinkable water in the desert, Thar Coal has remained a matter of active national debate. The size and the quality of Thar Coal reserves were known to a great extent since 1993 after a study by John T Boyd Company, US Mining consultants, only to be reinforced in subsequent studies by other international experts. However, there have always been conflicting views which at times create confusion about technical viability and commercial feasibility of mining and power generation on Thar Coal.

Thar Lignite Coal resource was initially estimated to be around 135 billion tons which was subsequently enhanced to 175 billion tons after review of data by USGS (United States Geological Survey) and GSP (Geological Survey of Pakistan). This estimate was based on distanced bore holes over an area of 9,000 sq kms which meant a source estimate of around 194 million tons of lignite per sq km. Subsequent explorations carried over an area of 1,200 sq have provided even higher figures of proven reserves of being around 200 to 350 million tons of lignite per sq km.
These Reserves Were Even Verified By China NE Geology Bureau In 2006.
Shenhua,Oracle and RWE of Germany Have All Conducted Feasibility Studies,Technical and Economical.I Will Give Details In Some Other Post if Required.
 
fact no .1 over four well known international companies have approved the resources. the reason they werent documented before were because they were not documneted.

regarding converstion to oil, that is indeed a controversial issue, other than that there hasnt been a single expert who has denied that this coal could be used for open mit mining and power generation..thats why four companies currently are investing 3 billion dollars though work is slow due to non availability of structure and govt lack of grantees in resolving circular debt.


anyone who denies that can easily be classified as an idiot..

its not new i have seen guys who claims that there isnt enough water to make dams,the very reason we didnt made dams were such claims...they continue atleast in form of kalabagh dam...even with disastrous flood we still claim there aint no water..we are worse than blind people..the 360 square km of open coal lying on ground is easily visible to blind people!!!!!
 

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