TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Trisolaran]

In aerospace design team there must be aerodynamics, structure, avionics, propulsion, electronics engineers.

Maybe the complexity is greater as N250 needs more than 300 design engineers, maybe around 500 people as it uses fly by wire system.

Maybe we should wait @MirageBlue opinion

My speculation is that these 1500 people also include other Turkish companies which is not airframer (TAI), like ASELSAN and others

Another detail I did not add is that all aviation engineers must benefit from the experience gained during the development of this aircraft in first hand.

 

[Indos]

Another detail I did not add is that all aviation engineers must benefit from the experience gained during the development of this aircraft in first hand.

That is true, the experience in developing real plane is needed to make any aerospace company and its aerospace industry ecosystem grows, not stuck or even degenerated.

 

[FuturePAF]

although it does make sense to use Hurjet for Naval aviation the stress and pressures Naval fixed aircraft have to endure are beyond what a jet trainer can handle

I think even China tried it never worked and they stuck with J15

If the Hurjet can operate from the Turkish LHD/Carrier could it be used to maintain direct line of sight communication and directly control drones like the Kizilelma?

 

[JamD]

How can it needs 1500 people as design team ? Indonesian aerospace only needs around 250 people to design N219 from scratch (without any foreign company consultants). The one that really needs huge design engineers are during detail design phase. @MirageBlue may have an opinion on this as he is an aerospace engineers.

Nice photo by the way. The best TFX photo so far

If anything even more engineers are needed and the facilities and number of people are being expanded constantly. There are so many subsystems and functions that are in a fifth-generation fighter aircraft. I could list a few hundred if I just sat down and thought about it. And those are just my field.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

How can it needs 1500 people as design team ? Indonesian aerospace only needs around 250 people to design N219 from scratch (without any foreign company consultants). The one that really needs huge design engineers are during detail design phase. @MirageBlue may have an opinion on this as he is an aerospace engineers.

Nice photo by the way. The best TFX photo so far

The first one is a utility aircraft, the second one is a fifth generation fighter jet. You see the difference?

 

[Indos]

If anything even more engineers are needed and the facilities and number of people are being expanded constantly. There are so many subsystems and functions that are in a fifth-generation fighter aircraft. I could list a few hundred if I just sat down and thought about it. And those are just my field.

I am only talking about TAI design engineering team (Airframe company). Does TAI really have 1500 design engineers working for them ?

As you have seen in my previous post, 1500 people I assume are TAI design team (+100 BAE system engineers as consultants) + other companies who build subsystems (like avionics, glass, seats, etc) + wind tunnel engineers (other companies/institution), and so on.

 

[JamD]

I am only talking about TAI design engineering team (Airframe company). Does TAI really have 1500 design engineers working for them ?

As you have seen in my previous post, 1500 people I assume are TAI design team + other companies who build subsystems (like avionics, glass, seats, etc) + wind tunnel engineers (other companies/institution), and so on.

I'm reasonably sure this is just the TAI MMU team based on what I've seen. This is not counting the people in places like Aselsan and Tubitak.

Also I don't know what you mean by airframe design company. Obviously TA is doing much more than just the airframe.

 

[dBSPL]

TAI carries out many projects simultaneously in terms of indigenous project development. In this sense, it is one of the organisations with the highest active workload in the world. Three 'military grade' fixed wing one of which is the fifth generation, three rotary wing, and three active strategic UCAV development programmes are ongoing. Apart from these, there are other sub-project groups towards sub-segments. The Structurals and Space Systems departments are a completely different world, not to mention that part. When we consider them in three main groups as Component, Aircraft and C & A Integration, we can see that a huge concept development, design, verification and test capability has to be produced within the organisation. Many of the dozens of sub-working areas here can be organised as a joint centre.

The specific characteristics of the MMU programme are also quite decisive. Unlike the Hürjet programme, the main objective of the programme is to achieve 100% indigenous design and development of the aircraft with all its subsystems within 10 years. At this point, the scope of work extends beyond TAI and becomes a giant cluster with Aselsan, Havelsan and more than 50 other defence and aerospace companies as subcontractors. TAI facilities are the integration centre where all these are brought together. Therefore, it is quite normal for the number of designers who directly or indirectly have their signature on the MMU to reach 1500. This number will probably double by Block-1. If one does some research on the design process of the F-35, it will become clear how much labour is required for design and verification activities.

 

[LegionnairE]

I am only talking about TAI design engineering team (Airframe company). Does TAI really have 1500 design engineers working for them ?

As you have seen in my previous post, 1500 people I assume are TAI design team (+100 BAE system engineers as consultants) + other companies who build subsystems (like avionics, glass, seats, etc) + wind tunnel engineers (other companies/institution), and so on.

The ENTIRE Turkish defense industry employs about 80,000 people. These are very low numbers. We need several times more people working on these projects for the things we're trying to do.

 

[Indos]

I'm reasonably sure this is just the TAI MMU team based on what I've seen. This is not counting the people in places like Aselsan and Tubitak.

Also I don't know what you mean by airframe design company. Obviously TA is doing much more than just the airframe.

I said Airframe company.

Airframers OEMs and Infotech companies - Edgevarsity Blog

We have heard of companies such as Airbus, Boeing, Dassault, Embraer, Pilatus etc. These companies are Aircraft manufacturers, and they are called Airframers. Who is an OEM? Not all parts (components) of the aircraft are manufactured by the airframer. They buy products and spares from experts...

blog.edgevarsity.com

 

[Indos]

The ENTIRE Turkish defense industry employs about 80,000 people. These are very low numbers. We need several times more people working on these projects for the things we're trying to do.

That is good. I hope your defense industries keep growing.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Turkey’s First Homegrown Manned Tactical Jet Has Flown​

Turkey’s First Homegrown Manned Tactical Jet Has Flown

The Hürjet boasts supersonic performance and is planned to be produced in advanced training and light combat configurations.

www.thedrive.com

>> nice writeup !!!

Congratulations Turkiye !!!!!!!!!

 

[MirageBlue]

In aerospace design team there must be aerodynamics, structure, avionics, propulsion, electronics engineers.

Maybe the complexity is greater as N250 needs more than 300 design engineers, maybe around 500 people as it uses fly by wire system.

Maybe we should wait @MirageBlue opinion

My speculation is that these 1500 people also include other Turkish companies which is not airframer (TAI), like ASELSAN and others

Hi Indos. You're right that 1500 'engineers' seems like a very high number for a single program. For reference sake alone, even a program like the Boeing 747-8 of which I was a part, did not require so many engineers all together at Boeing. But if one was to put together all the suppliers, all their engineers, technicians and staff, then perhaps one would get to a number like that.

TAI will have it's own engineers and technicians as well as it's suppliers, working across various companies on avionics, hydraulics, structures design and analysis, wind tunnel testing, electricals, lightning testing, stealth, etc. which could theoretically add up to 1500. Especially if you take into account that what was mentioned is that there were a lot of apprentices who joined the more experienced folks from the other programs.

 

[Killuminati]

I'm still amazed even if at least by now, I find the front section a bit strange!

View attachment 921530

There will be in total 7 prototypes and the shape will probably change during that time. The one we see is not the final product.

 

[Celestyal]

Technicians working on the aircraft