TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Deino]

Turkey is unable to be here with a to troll answer concrete evidence though is already threatening with SLCM though propaganda forum is not a defense forum. And don't even think that you have the right to tell me what to do.

That's the point you and some other Turkish chest-bumping naturalists don't understand: I have ALL rights to tell you; that's the freedom of speech a high value, your country or at least political establishment gradually lost and tries to negate to everyone who has not the same opinion. To have and share different opinions in a civilised manner is the reason why forums exist!

If you only want applause for something I don't share, then you should either lea to accept this or better leave. It's like joining a soccer-club and constantly bashing soccer or trying to play handball; so accept the rules or leave.

Otherwise try to discuss this with the owner of this forum, who shares this value.

 

[Balamir]

That's the point you and some other Turkish chest-bumping naturalists don't understand: I have ALL rights to tell you; that's the freedom of speech a high value, your country or at least political establishment gradually lost and tries to negate to everyone who has not the same opinion. To have and share different opinions in a civilised manner is the reason why forums exist!

If you only want applause for something I don't share, then you should either lea to accept this or better leave. It's like joining a soccer-club and constantly bashing soccer or trying to play handball; so accept the rules or leave.

Otherwise try to discuss this with the owner of this forum, who shares this value.

I'm the one whose messages are deleted. My freedom of opinion is restricted. If you are not interested in deleting the messages, you can go now. The show is over. My advice to you is to open a youtube channel and earn money with old jokes.

 

[Deino]

I'm the one whose messages are deleted. My freedom of opinion is restricted. If you are not interested in deleting the messages, you can go now. The show is over. My advice to you is to open a youtube channel and earn money with old jokes.

You are OFF-TOPIC! is this beyond your abilities of understanding and rules! You have no right to go off-topic even more with such nationalistic BS. Discuss the TFX and its fine and if you want to discuss Turkey's MRBMs then do this in the dedicated thread, but not here ... again; accept the rules or leave!

 

[Balamir]

You are OFF-TOPIC! is this beyond your abilities of understanding and rules! You have no right to go off-topic even more with such nationalistic BS. Discuss the TFX and its fine and if you want to discuss Turkey's MRBMs then do this in the dedicated thread, but not here ... again; accept the rules or leave!

Again, don't even think of ordering me. It is clear where and what I shared. You will obey before you suggest following the rules.

 

[Deino]

Again, don't even think of ordering me. It is clear where and what I shared.
You will obey before you suggest following the rules.

Another proof for a fan-boys hubris!? ... and surely I will not obey to a clown and fan-boy like you!

You are truly funny and your behaviour mirrors exactly what so many here in this forum and outside think of such claims: A junior member with barely any reputation demands a moderator to obey ... it's exactly like these current claims in regard to the TFX in mind of Turkeys experience and against any rationale argument from countries which already managed to develop such things.
But you surely know, in the same way I will obey what you say.

Not sure what you smoked my friend but you should calm down your testosterone level.

 

[dr.knowhow]

So If Hurjet's engine is about to get ready, do they mean they are close to signing the deal with EJ on suppyling EJ200 for the prototypes? The article also kinda sound like Turkey is trying to build their own EJ200 equivalent to replace any need for EJ200 in the future. Is this actually the case or was it just related to the MMU?

Either way, Hurjet's preliminary design being finished last July speaks of more confidence at least. I'm not so sure yet if maiden flight within 3 years isn't rushing as it normally takes a plane 4~5 years after PDR to get ready for its maiden flight after all the ground testing. Then again those guys in TAI would have something in mind to promise these schedules.

Apart from that, what Turkey wants to do with their engines, do they want to do something like the French, ie just use F110 as prelimimary powerplant then make their own engine that are similar in class but doesn't exactly match the engine they are replacing (M88 and F404), or the GE way, ie building an engine that is almsot completely compatible with the F110 (T700 and T901)? I am guessing its similar to France's case of developing Raflae but then again there has been a pretty long interval between F404 powered Rafale A and and Rafale B as the Rafale A was more of a technology demonstrator than EMD aircraft. Building an EMD aircraft to suit a certain engine then changing mid-EMD phase to suit another engine is going to be some work and time.

 

[Balamir]

Turkish members complaining of being treated unfairly is nothing but a joke, from my observation and I believed most of the ppl on this forum also agree, you guys are the most favour group in PDF for obvious reason.
I have seen how you people constantly despised Arabs, Egyptian and dissing Russian, Chinese defense projects, you people really need to cool down a bit.

If you do not know what is happening here, I recommend that you do not comment if you do not know the reason for the argument. Here he was insulted by one of Turkey's project. He also threatened Turkey with MIRV entitled SLCM. I think Turks cannot catch up with the others when it comes to EGOISM and strict nationalism.

 

[Balamir]

So If Hurjet's engine is about to get ready, do they mean they are close to signing the deal with EJ on suppyling EJ200 for the prototypes? The article also kinda sound like Turkey is trying to build their own EJ200 equivalent to replace any need for EJ200 in the future. Is this actually the case or was it just related to the MMU?

Either way, Hurjet's preliminary design being finished last July speaks of more confidence at least. I'm not so sure yet if maiden flight within 3 years isn't rushing as it normally takes a plane 4~5 years after PDR to get ready for its maiden flight after all the ground testing. Then again those guys in TAI would have something in mind to promise these schedules.

Apart from that, what Turkey wants to do with their engines, do they want to do something like the French, ie just use F110 as prelimimary powerplant then make their own engine that are similar in class but doesn't exactly match the engine they are replacing (M88 and F404), or the GE way, ie building an engine that is almsot completely compatible with the F110 (T700 and T901)? I am guessing its similar to France's case of developing Raflae but then again there has been a pretty long interval between F404 powered Rafale A and and Rafale B as the Rafale A was more of a technology demonstrator than EMD aircraft. Building an EMD aircraft to suit a certain engine then changing mid-EMD phase to suit another engine is going to be some work and time.

Yes, it seems that the EJ200 was chosen for Hürjet. However, it is not clear how to apply for domestic engines to be developed for both systems. In addition, it is unclear to which company the Hürjet's domestic engine was awarded the work and the schedule. However, for the first time in this statement, it was announced to Hürjet that a domestic engine was considered. However, if it does not reach the mass production aircraft, it can be purchased from outside in the first batch of aircraft. What happened in the Altay tank became a lesson.

There are two candidates. TEI and TR MOTOR. TEI is currently conducting gasoline / diesel engines for various sized UAVs and turboshaft engine projects of 1400 and 3000 shp for ATAK and heavy class attack helicopters. With the recently announced TJ300 turbojet engine project, it also entered the field of missile engines. Only TF / X engine project is carried out in TR MOTOR. We'll have to wait a little longer for more information.

 

[IblinI]

If you do not know what is happening here, I recommend that you do not comment if you do not know the reason for the argument. Here he was insulted by one of Turkey's project. He also threatened Turkey with MIRV entitled SLCM. I think Turks cannot catch up with the others when it comes to EGOISM and strict nationalism.

Mr MMME and some other turks perfectly fit your description, how many times he insulted other national with the dirtiest words you can ever Imagine especially towards arab and Egyptian and still managed to get away with it.

 

[Deino]

Yes, it seems that the EJ200 was chosen for Hürjet. However, it is not clear how to apply for domestic engines to be developed for both systems. In addition, it is unclear to which company the Hürjet's domestic engine was awarded the work and the schedule. However, for the first time in this statement, it was announced to Hürjet that a domestic engine was considered. However, if it does not reach the mass production aircraft, it can be purchased from outside in the first batch of aircraft. What happened in the Altay tank became a lesson.

There are two candidates. TEI and TR MOTOR. TEI is currently conducting gasoline / diesel engines for various sized UAVs and turboshaft engine projects of 1400 and 3000 shp for ATAK and heavy class attack helicopters. With the recently announced TJ300 turbojet engine project, it also entered the field of missile engines. Only TF / X engine project is carried out in TR MOTOR. We'll have to wait a little longer for more information.

So just for the record and to avoid misunderstandings ... Turkey now plans to purchase EJ200 engines for the Hürjet's prototypes but the final serial product will get an so far unknown indigenous engine?
And for the TFX - surely better known - GE-110 engines are acquired for the prototypes but the final serial product will get yet another indigenous engine?

And the timeline for these two engines is until when?

 

[dr.knowhow]

I'm not really convinced that it makes much sense for Turkey to have two different companies to compete in the very dedicated and limited field of engineering in the likes of gas turbine development and invest government funds separately. France has Safran and UK has RR. Are there any competitors domestically? No. It would be wise for Turkey to really decide on which company to work with in the long term future to streamline the process and promote efficiency regarding the usage of R&D expenditures and man-hours.

On top of that I am also not sure if having 3 different and potentially 4 different gas turbine development program whose development timelines overlap is a good Idea. It seems Turkey is maturing its turboshaft engine for the indigenous helicopter program meanwhile are planning to develop a turbofan engine for the Hurjet based on the knowledge gained from developing the turboshaft engine then further develop on this basis to eventually reach the point of powering the MMU with an domestic turbofan engine as well. Then again the timelines would overlap due to the nature of how the development of T625, Hurjet and MMU are scheduled shortly following one after other. Last but not least there is this 3000 SHP class turboshaft enginee that is being considered.

Obviously its the matter of time and financial investment and if Turkey is willing and is able to dedicate enough of both. This is what I cannot answer but what I could suggest is that the timelines are very risky, being so highly intertwined with one another, any kind of delay or problem in the preceding program would eventually affect the follow up development program as well. My two cents.

 

[Balamir]

So just for the record and to avoid misunderstandings ... Turkey now plans to purchase EJ200 engines for the Hürjet's prototypes but the final serial product will get an so far unknown indigenous engine?
And for the TFX - surely better known - GE-110 engines are acquired for the prototypes but the final serial product will get yet another indigenous engine?

And the timeline for these two engines is until when?

TR MOTOR is working for the domestic engine of TF / X.
* The first start of the engine in 2026-2027,
* It is planned to make its first flight with TF / X in 2029.
The general manager of TR MOTOR said this.

For HÜRJET, the domestic engine was announced indirectly for the first time. However, there is no detailed information.

If both engines reach the mass production of the aircraft, they will be used, if not, ready-made purchases from outside will be applied. In this case, they can share the fate of the Altay tank.

I'm not really convinced that it makes much sense for Turkey to have two different companies to compete in the very dedicated and limited field of engineering in the likes of gas turbine development and invest government funds separately. France has Safran and UK has RR. Are there any competitors domestically? No. It would be wise for Turkey to really decide on which company to work with in the long term future to streamline the process and promote efficiency regarding the usage of R&D expenditures and man-hours.

On top of that I am also not sure if having 3 different and potentially 4 different gas turbine development program whose development timelines overlap is a good Idea. It seems Turkey is maturing its turboshaft engine for the indigenous helicopter program meanwhile are planning to develop a turbofan engine for the Hurjet based on the knowledge gained from developing the turboshaft engine then further develop on this basis to eventually reach the point of powering the MMU with an domestic turbofan engine as well. Then again the timelines would overlap due to the nature of how the development of T625, Hurjet and MMU are scheduled shortly following one after other. Last but not least there is this 3000 SHP class turboshaft enginee that is being considered.

Obviously its the matter of time and financial investment and if Turkey is willing and is able to dedicate enough of both. This is what I cannot answer but what I could suggest is that the timelines are very risky, being so highly intertwined with one another, any kind of delay or problem in the preceding program would eventually affect the follow up development program as well. My two cents.

TEI (50.5% of TAI) and TR MOTOR (35% of TAI) they will work together and complement each other on the domestic engine of TF / X. If the schedules match, the important project will be prioritized. It was seen in the Altay project. The engine is very important. Especially to TF / X and helicopter engines.

Embargoes and blockades as a catalyst for Turkey. Turkey is going to cause them more azimlen more locked into the goal. If the engine could get ready, maybe he wouldn't think of starting these projects.

By the way, I just noticed that one more message of mine has been deleted. However, the insulting messages written to me have not been deleted. Good bye.

 

[dr.knowhow]

TR MOTOR is working for the domestic engine of TF / X.
* The first start of the engine in 2026-2027,
* It is planned to make its first flight with TF / X in 2029.
The general manager of TR MOTOR said this.

For HÜRJET, the domestic engine was announced indirectly for the first time. However, there is no detailed information.

If both engines reach the mass production of the aircraft, they will be used, if not, ready-made purchases from outside will be applied. In this case, they can share the fate of the Altay tank.

TEI (50.5% of TAI) and TR MOTOR (35% of TAI) they will work together and complement each other on the domestic engine of TF / X. If the schedules match, the important project will be prioritized. It was seen in the Altay project. The engine is very important. Especially to TF / X and helicopter engines.

Embargoes and blockades as a catalyst for Turkey. Turkey is going to cause them more azimlen more locked into the goal. If the engine could get ready, maybe he wouldn't think of starting these projects.

By the way, I just noticed that one more message of mine has been deleted. However, the insulting messages written to me have not been deleted. Good bye.

I've actually just found out that the "T" in TEI stands for Tusas so it being a subsidiary of TAI was obvious from its name... Then again I've also have remembered the fact that the Turkish contribution in the JSF program before all the mess had Kale Aero and P&W Kale involved, who were involved in the manufacturing of the F135 engines. So counting that makes things even more complicated. Now it doesn't really matter anymore but what were the reasons behind Kale being selected for the JSF involvement instead of TEI? They have even managed to team up with RR at one point to set up TAEC to compete with TEI for the MMU engine bid. I suspect that the problem was TEI being partially owned by GE. I mean until quite recently there were no need for either Turkish armed forces nor TAI to work with P&W or RR so it made sense to stick with GE entirely and have closer relationship. Can anyone confirm on this?

Back to the topic of TR Motor, TAI being affiliated with TR Motor speaks of some sort of connection between TEI and TR Motor I guess so it might be less of a problem. I'm not exactly sure how the engineers of TEI would be working with TR Motor but it would make absolutely no sense if this isn't the case.

But then again it seems to be that the TR Motor is established for the sole reason of having BMC involved in the program. I don't want to spark yet another political gibberish and hellscape in this thread regarding Erdogan and BMC so please let's step aside from those matters. Apart from politics itself, I still think there are some reasons which makes sense having BMC involved. The Qataris are largely connected with the BMC company and regarded close allies with Turkey for recent years. On top of that they have the oil-money which Turkey would definitely need when they are planning to develop a fighter jet engine that matches F100/F110.

Unfortunately there are not much information about how BMC is involved in the program nor do we know what are the terms between Turkey and Qatar in developing this jet engine. Maybe it is to blame that no one has much connection to the industry or that Turkish government not being all that transparent regarding the information and the process of the programs. I do hope that there is a Turkish member who might have these insider information.

Another question would be concerning the negotiation with RR. Is this negotiation still going on? Is Turkey still looking for a foreign partner for the domestic jet engine or are they going completely stand alone? We haven't heard much about it as well. Then again even when they get RR as a partner, would it be Kale working with them or TEI? Would the British be willing to let Qataris get involved in form of BMC? There are just too many questions.

Last but not least, 2026~2027 being the deadline shortly followed by 2029 deadline would mean that the firing up of the first prototype in this particular time period (within 6~7 years) would not only be the testing of the core but a complete engine itself. It would be impossible to only have the engine core then have only 2~3 years to get the complete engine ready for flight. We all know that a lot of Turkish members here think that Turkey can make this happen and there were equal amount of doubts coming from other foreign members of the forum. I usually think that I am not in a position to judge on these kinds of matters so I would not say if it's possible or not but it surely is very, very ambitious development schedule.

 

[WebMaster]

Avoid off topic posts here or they will be deleted.

thanks

 

[Turcici Imperium]

Avoid off topic posts here or they will be deleted.

thanks

Hi, i am planning to open one seperate thread regarding "Opinions about TF-X" so that this thread would be used for sharing news, and that thread would be used for forum members to put their opinions, so information wouldn't disappear among trolls/speculations. What do you think about this idea?