Tejas to cost 42 Million USD a piece to IAF

[anathema]

What you say would be true if Indians have done anything.

Engine - imported
Radar - imported
Missiles - imported
Ejection seat - imported
Quartz radome - imported
In-flight refueling probe - imported
Autocannon gun - imported

Do one thing - why doesnt PAK get engine, radar, missiles, ejection seat, radome, ifr and gun - and build your own fighter ?
Oh wait - do you guys build your own car ?

True by the time we end production of block 3 our focus will move on to next gen fighter. Tejas will remain plagued with logistical nightmare mainly bcz of its components are sourced from multiple countries.

No , Tejas will not be plagued because of sourcing from multiple countries. Thats like saying Gripen , Mistibushi F2 and EF will be plagued by these issues.
What is the timeline of block 3 ? How many block 3's have been ordered ?

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

What you say would be true if Indians have done anything.

Engine - imported
Radar - imported
Missiles - imported
Ejection seat - imported
Quartz radome - imported
In-flight refueling probe - imported
Autocannon gun - imported

Mission computer is ours, so is various system associated with it. So is our own source code for the fighter. Try integrating an fighter with different sources then you will have an idea of what you are talking about. It's not like a plug and play system. Even if we buy third party system we have to program it and we have to integrate the system With our mission systems. And add to that tons of test facilities created for testing this fighters components. All certified to NATO MIL standards.

So if Integration is so easy you will see Sri Lanka making fighters. There is a reason why other than Tejas, only Gripen is another "integrated" fighter on the market. But they don't complain. So we won't. The next version coming with our own aesa radar, ECM, MAWS will reduce some foreign dependencies. Learn to walk before one runs.

 

[Dark1]

Mission computer is ours, so is various system associated with it. So is our own source code for the fighter. Try integrating an fighter with different sources then you will have an idea of what you are talking about. It's not like a plug and play system. Even if we buy third party system we have to program it and we have to integrate the system With our mission systems. And add to that tons of test facilities created for testing this fighters components. All certified to NATO MIL standards.

So if Integration is so easy you will see Sri Lanka making fighters. There is a reason why other than Tejas, only Gripen is another "integrated" fighter on the market. But they don't complain. So we won't. The next version coming with our own aesa radar, ECM, MAWS will reduce some foreign dependencies. Learn to walk before one runs.

India should try to indiginise the radar and missiles. Others like the engine are a bridge too far at the moment , while some like the seat are niche items and dont deserve the effort to indiginise.

 

[Canuck786]

We ll see when something happens...These are just speculation only without any Teja on ground

You mean,'Air'. Right?

 

[Kaniska]

You mean,'Air'. Right?

Yeh....right....

 

[Pandora]

Do one thing - why doesnt PAK get engine, radar, missiles, ejection seat, radome, ifr and gun - and build your own fighter ?
Oh wait - do you guys build your own car ?



No , Tejas will not be plagued because of sourcing from multiple countries. Thats like saying Gripen , Mistibushi F2 and EF will be plagued by these issues.
What is the timeline of block 3 ? How many block 3's have been ordered ?

The high cost of plane is associated with high number of imported parts sourced from different countries. You will forget about issues with SU30 logistics after you induct this plane in your fleet in large numbers.Both Mitsubishi and EF are supported by strong industrial base and EU sources its stuff inside EU so nothing lost there. As for gripen it failed to achieve market mainly bcz it relies too much on foreign components. It will take US a moment to get pissed resulting in grounding of entire fleet. Americans are the most unreliable people in times of war and you actually used their engine in TEJAS.

First 2 block 3 will be delivered this year followed by our standard production of 10-15 aircrafts per year depending on availability of funds.

 

[hacker J]

What you say would be true if Indians have done anything.

Engine - imported
Radar - imported
Missiles - imported
Ejection seat - imported
Quartz radome - imported
In-flight refueling probe - imported
Autocannon gun - imported

Let me try a little correction
Engine - tried homemaking but failed so went with alternate one to avoid any ore delays(even china and gripen did so)
Missiles- astra bvr already active, CCM in development (totally indeginious with inhouse seeker)
Ejection Seats- event f22 has imported seat M&B makes best seats and is sanction free so no point in researching on that (no body does that now)
Quartz Radome - indiginous one ready
Auto cannon - imported yes

The high cost of plane is associated with high number of imported parts sourced from different countries. You will forget about issues with SU30 logistics after you induct this plane in your fleet in large numbers.Both Mitsubishi and EF are supported by strong industrial base and EU sources its stuff inside EU so nothing lost there. As for gripen it failed to achieve market mainly bcz it relies too much on foreign components. It will take US a moment to get pissed resulting in grounding of entire fleet. Americans are the most unreliable people in times of war and you actually used their engine in TEJAS.

First 2 block 3 will be delivered this year followed by our standard production of 10-15 aircrafts per year depending on availability of funds.

Ture that, india already knows very well specially with the incident with landing carrier. Anyways ristrictions can only be applied on new engines and not on war stock (if you maintain enough). plus i was reading about india secretly pushing ahead with the GE replacement by indigenous one as then it can be exported to certain countries too (lon term plan in 10-15 years).

India should try to indiginise the radar and missiles. Others like the engine are a bridge too far at the moment , while some like the seat are niche items and dont deserve the effort to indiginise.

indian AESA radar uttam already going through testing phase, missiles in development even astra mk 2 is planned. CCM in development.

 

[Dark1]

The high cost of plane is associated with high number of imported parts sourced from different countries. You will forget about issues with SU30 logistics after you induct this plane in your fleet in large numbers.Both Mitsubishi and EF are supported by strong industrial base and EU sources its stuff inside EU so nothing lost there. As for gripen it failed to achieve market mainly bcz it relies too much on foreign components. It will take US a moment to get pissed resulting in grounding of entire fleet. Americans are the most unreliable people in times of war and you actually used their engine in TEJAS.

First 2 block 3 will be delivered this year followed by our standard production of 10-15 aircrafts per year depending on availability of funds.

If you see our accident rate with Russian origin engines , you will understand the relief our pilots will feel with a American engine. Their is a reason why all the civilian aircrafts in the world, like Boeing and Airbus, have western engines and are operating 365 x 24 , without any major issues. Even the 737 max issue is controls related , not a engine issue. The new Chinese aircraft is also sourcing engines from the west. Reliability is incomparable.
Tejas has had 1000s of hours of flying without any mishap. It's a good stepping stone for future reliability.

 

[Pandora]

If you see our accident rate with Russian origin engines , you will understand the relief our pilots will feel with a American engine. Their is a reason why all the civilian aircrafts in the world, like Boeing and Airbus, have western engines and are operating 365 x 24 , without any major issues. Even the 737 max issue is controls related , not a engine issue. The new Chinese aircraft is also sourcing engines from the west. Reliability is incomparable.
Tejas has had 1000s of hours of flying without any mishap. It's a good stepping stone for future reliability.

Pakistan is operating RD 93 for about a decade now and not a single engine related issue has cropped up. We even overhauled it indigenously so it is not the issue of engine bcz so many countries are operating Russian jets without issues. Problem with India was that large number of russian jets were inducted but inability to source its spare locally caused issues in logistics. You won't find same issue with chinese SU30 jets bcz they established local industry well to source spare locally. There is no doubt American engines are very fuel efficient compared to Russian counterparts.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/china-still-needs-to-improve-jet-engine.html

"According to Air Commodore Mehmood engines are solid and reliable. They have claimed to have flown 7,000 hours with the engine and we haven’t had any problems"

 

[Avatar]

Tejas is a solid platform, whatever the setbacks have been. It has helped India develop an entire aerospace industry that will eventually enable the nation to be self reliant in this field. Buying foreign weapon systems is only a temporary stop gap solution. In 50-60 years, we will see only UCAVs rule the skies with little human assistance, and most of them would be indigenous.

I dont want to compare it with any other weapon system because time will reveal its true capabilities. Lets just say IAF is a lot more picky and has a lot more to choose from.

 

[sohail.ishaque]

Is the cost of the truck that carries Tejas also included in this 42 million ?

 

[Dark1]

Pakistan is operating RD 93 for about a decade now and not a single engine related issue has cropped up. We even overhauled it indigenously so it is not the issue of engine bcz so many countries are operating Russian jets without issues. Problem with India was that large number of russian jets were inducted but inability to source its spare locally caused issues in logistics. You won't find same issue with chinese SU30 jets bcz they established local industry well to source spare locally. There is no doubt American engines are very fuel efficient compared to Russian counterparts.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/china-still-needs-to-improve-jet-engine.html

"According to Air Commodore Mehmood engines are solid and reliable. They have claimed to have flown 7,000 hours with the engine and we haven’t had any problems"

I was thinking of the mig21 era planes not the su30 era ones. India has been flying the su30s since the late 90s with very few mishaps.
But they still can't match the reliability of the 3 decades old mirage 2000 . The pilot at time of combat should not be worried about engines flaming out but only the adversary. For all PAFs love for brand new jf17 , the attachment to a 35 year old f16 was obvious.

 

[JafarQureshi]

Is the cost of the truck that carries Tejas also included in this 42 million ?

I heard that every Teja will come with a free truck included.

 

[Pandora]

I was thinking of the mig21 era planes not the su30 era ones. India has been flying the su30s since the late 90s with very few mishaps.
But they still can't match the reliability of the 3 decades old mirage 2000 . The pilot at time of combat should not be worried about engines flaming out but only the adversary. For all PAFs love for brand new jf17 , the attachment to a 35 year old f16 was obvious.

Both Planes belong to different categories. Thunder is a Lightweight fighter whereas F16 are Medium weight. Also currently our F16 with AMRAAMS are our best weapons. In future PL15 might get integrated but AMRAAM are battle tested weapons and will remain our offensive punch.

As for Mig21 they are called flying coffins for a reason. Even our F7P have poor record.

 

[anathema]

Pakistan is operating RD 93 for about a decade now and not a single engine related issue has cropped up. We even overhauled it indigenously so it is not the issue of engine bcz so many countries are operating Russian jets without issues. Problem with India was that large number of russian jets were inducted but inability to source its spare locally caused issues in logistics. You won't find same issue with chinese SU30 jets bcz they established local industry well to source spare locally. There is no doubt American engines are very fuel efficient compared to Russian counterparts.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/china-still-needs-to-improve-jet-engine.html

"According to Air Commodore Mehmood engines are solid and reliable. They have claimed to have flown 7,000 hours with the engine and we haven’t had any problems"

Dude - we have been operating RD33 , AL's for over 3 decades and counting. We know what are the issues and MTBF. In India these issues cannot be hidden due to a very active press and RTI.
In your and chinese case - you are only getting data what they want you to get - there's a difference.
World over (forget India) russian engines have troubled everyone as compared to western ones. You can check out other airforces. So if somebody says - JF17's have an amazing availability rate and RD93 is performing awesomely well - then take it with a pinch of salt