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Taseer murder case: Qadri sentenced to death

What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks for the invite - Are you familiar with the notion of sexual shame? A sense of inadequacy and deep sense of shame that expresses it self in control and physical, especially sexual violence as compensation -- this is part of a syndrome -- that's what the whole honor and shame culture is about and all the things associated with it, such as honor killings - honestly is there anymore telling feature of this syndrome than honor killings?

Think about the kinds of women who refuse to be part of this --it's really beyond courage isn't it?

By the way notice something curious, where ever this syndrome is observed, the higher rungs of society is immune from it, even in Arabia, Egypt, Jordan Syria and even Turkiye and Iran And of course in the sub-continent. And I think this allows us to consider the question of why this syndrome and relative poverty are observed together
 
Not only sexual, but even domestic violence. It is quite akin to passing on the heritage, as a parent abused in his/her childhood is more likely to abuse his or her own spouse/child. Does not have to be outright sexual abuse, merely verbal and physical abuse is enough a sign of that perceived dominance that one feels as a need to show his/her authority.

Don't know how relevant it is here, but it reminds me of an old saying from that Hindu epic, Mahabharat - Krishna says to Arjun, "When a person's sexual needs remain unfulfilled, they come out in the form of krodha (rage), and then the subject, under complete control of the krodha, feels the inescapable need to display his/her authority".

And a saying goes around here, that a weak man has nothing, but honor. Thus, I suppose, come the honor killings, since those, that are weak inside, have nothing else they can hold on to. They cannot go kill someone more powerful. They cannot go harm someone who can retaliate. Blinded by this rage, they find no harm in subjugating or killing those whom they are supposed to love.

And as you noted in your last para, it is never to be seen among the rich or the elites. Not just now, but since ever. The rich, and the powerful, and the elite, they are not deficient in any quarter. They have more venues to show their authority in, rather than just harm their own family, in the name of honor that shall be judged by others. They know they are the judge, and none to judge them.

Even a poor man, once free from such fear of getting judged by others, will begin to live, and love life much more than otherwise. Such a person will neither subjugate anyone, nor be subjugated by anyone, even if in chains.

Well, these were my thoughts when I saw Mosamania's comment that the woman flying a plane does not need to cover her head because she is "inside" a plane. The first thought to come to my mind was - Is a woman driving a car, not "inside" the car?

But flying a plane makes her rich, so she is free, and driving a car - oh that's cheap for sure.
 
Presidente

If you can get this book in your library - please do read it " Worlds of Pain: Life in the Working Class Family" --- it's setting is the US but I encourage you to read it ---

Worlds of Pain: Life in the Working-Class Family | Lillian B Rubin | Book | Red Room

Please do make the effort to read the book

It is so rare these days to get a recommendation like this, I will not miss this chance.

Thanks Muse, I will try my best to get my hands on it.

Not really affiliated to any libraries in India, so will try to see if I can find any ******** online. If not, then I may have to wait till I travel to the states later next month. Will have it arranged before I reach there, but will read it for sure.

Thank you so much for the recommendation.

-----------

By the way, on topic, I have often read in columns written by Pakistani writers, that most of the people are only frustrated because of the ongoing economic and social problems in the country. That this this economic and social condition is dividing and making the people vent out their frustration at any target they can find, which at the moment is the US.

What do you think, how true is that?
 
You know we have been saying on the forum that this islamism stuff really is opium because it serves to put a lid on peoples aspiration for lives that are materially better - in a sense materially better lives are lives of increasing dignity and what this Islamism stuff does, is to tell people that they are unworthy -- consider the response of the so called Mullahs to the floods, the floods and suffering was blamed on the wrath of God and for Pakistanis not being pious enough -- of course this did explain that God loved the rich more than the poor, since the rich did not suffer --

Similarly, right here on this forum, you can pretty much tell the class and education of respondents by observing their responses - particularly with regard to cultural issues and especially with regard to women -- I'll turn you on to another work you may enjoy, it's a study of the development of Schizophrenia in a country in which high rates of immigration have resulted in one or more offspring ending up caring for parents that are unwilling to immigrate and the development of this disease, as it plays out in the social awkwardness of those afflicted around women --

Generally speaking the more committed our respondents are to islamism and socially conservative and misogynist attitudes justified on religious grounds, the more the respondent is relatively poorer or from a relatively poorer background as compared to those who do not exhibit or express the same kinds of attitudes and the same kinds of justification
 
Sad that sections of the Pakistani society still sympathize with Qadri :

Mumtaz-Qadri_2014923c.jpg


Supporters of Malik Mumtaz Hussain Qadri protest, after a court sentenced him to death, in Lahore, Pakistan

no surprise seeing the mullah supporting a murderer, n ppl send their kids to them for religious teachings...:tsk::tsk:
 
You know we have been saying on the forum that this islamism stuff really is opium because it serves to put a lid on peoples aspiration for lives that are materially better - in a sense materially better lives are lives of increasing dignity and what this Islamism stuff does, is to tell people that they are unworthy -- consider the response of the so called Mullahs to the floods, the floods and suffering was blamed on the wrath of God and for Pakistanis not being pious enough -- of course this did explain that God loved the rich more than the poor, since the rich did not suffer --

That's quite a sharp derivation man! Very precise one that tells who open themselves up to this sense of the Mullahs, and why do they do so. No wonder, the rich bin Laden's own niece is a hot model, while those who can barely afford different clothes for different occasions are the major followers of his ideology.

That thread, Defending Islam, there I once posted an article. It began by saying how in the evening, in front of some certain Tablighi Jamaat Mosque, the hawkers park their carts beside the imported cars, and everyone gets first come first served basis preference for parking. Sounds really nice egalitarian society type. But once inside, the atmosphere changes. Commoners become the celebrities, and celebrities become the gullible.

The entire idea is that whatever you have done in your life, holds no value whatsoever unless you have done something that those specific Mullahs preach. Once outside, the celebrities may be back to their daily lives and indulge in their own tempting vices, but I am sure the commoners, or the poor, will live for this new found identity, for this is all they will have to make them feel worthwhile.

Generally speaking the more committed our respondents are to islamism and socially conservative and misogynist attitudes justified on religious grounds, the more the respondent is relatively poorer or from a relatively poorer background as compared to those who do not exhibit or express the same kinds of attitudes and the same kinds of justification

Yes, that is bound to happen. People take pride in their heritage. And heritage is an inseperable part of identity. However, if there is anything missing, or any guilt lingering far away in the past of the heritage, then the concept of identity is broken. That is when the forceful nature of the character comes out. The show of force, i.e., mysogynist attitude, or forced conservatism, gives them a feel of authority, legality, and righteousness. They measure their deeds throughout lives on the scale of those Mullahs, and then they begin to feel important.

The mere fact that they can "justifiably" force someone to do something (doesn't necessarily have to be with Islamism, or religion, though the religion part certainly provides them with great satisfying sense of authority) somehow subconsciously compensates them for the lack of any just authority or identity they hold.

They use the religion as nothing more than a crutch for them to carry that sinful corpse. But they cannot get over, for it is their own corpse and it refuses to budge at the touches of humanity.

I am not sure if this attitude, or this concept they hold for a society, can be easily cured. Education will not be the one to play the role here. And economic reforms are too gradual a process, and may be too late to happen.

While such hunger to be authoritative can be seen among the poor in almost every country, it is so many times more pronounced in Pakistan, and with my lack of deep knowledge about that country, I can only wonder about what can be done to slow down, if not halt this disastrous phenomenon.
 
What I am really disgusted to see are the comments on Facebook specially on the "We the Pakistanis " club page. Youngsters living in western countries showing so much support for this murderer and showing up extremist views. Its truly saddening.
 
People take pride in their heritage. And heritage is an inseperable part of identity.

Since when is this stuff their heritage?? Actually it's because they are ignorant of their heritage, that they have formed such an identity -- think about it, are these people not different from their parents with regard to the ideas they have absorbed? Clearly, and of course they are not absorbing it our of thin air, it's the state which is responsible for this state of affairs - this is the kind of adherent that the state thinks it wants - frothing at the mouth, poor, under educated , blaming the "other" for his or her problems - Jewish media, Horrible Hindus, secular traitors, Shi'ei, Christians, Westerners, Zionists, etc; etc;
 
Qadri wont be too bothered about the death sentence...instead i can imagine him looking forward to it........
if they really wanted to punish him....they should have given him life sentence.

Yes, the poor soul must be imagining shakeela, razia, sultan, shagufta (living in his area) among the 72 virgins for which he did this...

The poor soul doesn't know that a huge monster with huge tool will be waiting for him. :lol:
 
death penalties are justified for certain crimes...why abolish it?
who wouldnt want a child murderer like javed iqbal to be executed?

Death penalties given by 'courts' through proper trial are not justified in any case.

However, if you kill anyone like US does, i mean kill any 'suspect' is fckuing justified.
 
Qadri wont be too bothered about the death sentence...instead i can imagine him looking forward to it........
if they really wanted to punish him....they should have given him life sentence.

You really don't support that unless you'd like to see your taxes being spent to keep him fed. Just kill him. One less extremist in our country.
 
Since when is this stuff their heritage?? Actually it's because they are ignorant of their heritage, that they have formed such an identity -- think about it, are these people not different from their parents with regard to the ideas they have absorbed? Clearly, and of course they are not absorbing it our of thin air, it's the state which is responsible for this state of affairs - this is the kind of adherent that the state thinks it wants - frothing at the mouth, poor, under educated , blaming the "other" for his or her problems - Jewish media, Horrible Hindus, secular traitors, Shi'ei, Christians, Westerners, Zionists, etc; etc;

That's the thing. They are told lies about their heritage. We have seen it in this forum itself. If they cannot be Arabians, they would rather be Central Asians, because any Middle Eastern apart from Arabians can by chance also be a Shia, or a Jew. And can't even dream of coming from anywhere East of Pakistan, can they? Wherever they are from, they are certainly not told that they are from the land they live in - Pakistan. If they are not told so, then at least they are shown how shameful it would be if they are not Arabians or Central Asians. To adjust to this new found identity, they embrace all the vices, along with whatever virtues, coming from that culture that they "now" belong to.

Then they are closely guided by the Mullahs in defining their new found identities, as a religious obligation - A warrior, even when there is no war or a Jihadist, even when there's no need for Jihad.

Not the state, but the statesmen certainly stand to gain so much from it. Mismanagement of water/funds during flood or frequent blasts, owing to the irresponsible behavior of the state, killing scores are wrath of God. Perhaps they are still not Muslims enough? That's what the Mullahs would make them think.

But the frustration doesn't die that easy. Let it come out on those who are not obligated to follow those Mullahs - all the groups you mentioned in your post.

But see Muse, if they accept their identity. As humans where they come from. Then wouldn't they know that religious obligations stop at their nose? That they have absolutely no right to impose such obligations on others, for others may have a different identity, very right ones in their own respective eyes?

When these people realize where they come from, what they are, they will understand they have a right to be different from what the Mullahs want them to be. When they realize their own right to be different, wouldn't they start accepting the right of others to be different from them?
 
why did jinnah fight ghazi alam deen's case and why did allama iqbal say that he is not worthy to lead the funeral of such a matchless warrior?please ask yourselves this question i hope we all will find answers.thanks :pakistan:
 

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