Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[That Guy]

Do you ever read from the thread or just talk for the sake of talking? So much has been shared here, you ought to have a look at it probably.

And how does that relate to what I said?

Now that is some news which will send shockwaves all across the globe.

Imagine SU-35, F-16 block 52 and our own JF-17 flying in one formation, truly terrifying prospect for the enemies of Pakistan. PAF has always been a single engine jet airforce. This is a big leap from old thinking. We do need twin engine SU-35 not as a luxury but with rapid development of CPEC, we need long range jets which can protect our sea and trade lines deep into Arabian and Indian ocean....and yes gives Russia what it always wanted , access to warm waters.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the Su-35 is on the cards, and I don't buy any of the arguments that suggest PAF is in any way interested in the Sukhoi, especially since India probably already knows what the Su-35 is capable of.

 

[TigerJay]

You'd be surprised how much talking is done, just for talking's sake. The recent warming of relations between Russia and Pakistan is going up, but there is no reason to believe that PAF is interested in the Su-35. Talking is done to maintain and improve relations, that is probably what is going on here.

Too much use of probably's, but's. It's good to have an opinion but better to update yourself with the current news before you form an opinion. Just a humble suggestion.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the Su-35 is on the cards, and I don't buy any of the arguments that suggest PAF is in any way interested in the Sukhoi, especially since India probably already knows what the Su-35 is capable of

So you're trying to imply that if India knows about Su 35s capabilities, Su 35s will become useless for PAK suddenly? I am trying to find a good reasoning here. Also how is it implied that India has experience with Su 35s?

At the end, this deal is quite unlikely simply for the reason that India will NEVER bear it happening. It will spend a billion to prevent Pakistan from spending 1 million on defence. That is the level of focus, preparedness or if you look at it another way fear/desperation they have of a military contingency with Pakistan. They want a whitewash against Pakistan or nothing else.

This is not a cricket match and you know their psyche even in that.

That is true to some extent, but I believe you're looking at this scenario in an isolation. It's as much as about Chinese investments in Pakistan as well as Pakistan's Interest in matching Rafaels. So eventually this match is going to be not just between India and Pakistan but China playing the umpire. I believe the game is bigger than it looks now.

 

[Taygibay]

Imran Bhai, Just Imagine how it feel making real French toast out of Rafael....through this monster......hmmm...crispy

@Taygibay.....

Well, Tameem, you can bet that respective performances if both faced-off in the next installment of the ****-Desi
disagreement would be used to bolster sales of the victor. I think the Raffy would do well-enough TYVM.

Of course if it doesn't happen ( the war, not the still very prospective deal ), civilians will be even more pleased IMHoO.

BTW let me scold you softly for Rafael use again. If it was that you only seemed to be so cross-eyed as to be
hard pressed to differentiate between a jet fighter and a tennis man, only your pride would suffer but …
it so happens that RAFAEL is an important enough military equipment maker if not a favorite in Pakistan.
Confusion arises from that misspelling that may shroud the less astute if you see what I mean.

Good evening in your home and land, Tay.

 

[war&peace]

I still believe going for SU-35 is not a sane idea....better utilize those funds for procuring additional -16's

Totally disagreed. F-16 is an old airplane and cannot match a 4.5 generation Su-35....It is a huge gap plus.....US control.....no way that will be a suicide....sanctions, no openness, their bossy behaviour and now it is time for us to change all that and for the good.

 

[That Guy]

Too much use of probably's, but's. It's good to have an opinion but better to update yourself with the current news before you form an opinion. Just a humble suggestion.

Listen, most of what I've said is pretty much common thinking; Take @Oscar, for example, he'd agree that there is little to no reason to think that PAF is going to buy Sukhois, in fact, he does.

At the end, this deal is quite unlikely simply for the reason that India will NEVER bear it happening. It will spend a billion to prevent Pakistan from spending 1 million on defence. That is the level of focus, preparedness or if you look at it another way fear/desperation they have of a military contingency with Pakistan. They want a whitewash against Pakistan or nothing else.

This is not a cricket match and you know their psyche even in that.

His point about money is also valid as well, though I don't think it's the biggest issue.

The "probably" and "but" come from reasonable deduction work, as there is little to no material to work with. There is literally ZERO evidence to suggest that PAF will buy the Sukhoi.

So you're trying to imply that if India knows about Su 35s capabilities, Su 35s will become useless for PAK suddenly? I am trying to find a good reasoning here. Also how is it implied that India has experience with Su 35s?

That's not what I'm saying. The problem is that India (as it is close to Russia and operates slightly older variants) has a deeper understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the fighter. It would have a tactical advantage over PAF, if the SU-35 were to go against IAF, simply because the IAF has been practicing with the platform for much longer. This is another reason why the IAF rejected the F-16IN, as PAF had a much better understanding of the F-16s.

These seemingly little things give huge advantages to the side that takes advantage of them.

 

[Donatello]

Serious doubts if it will ever happen. But if it does, both 8sq and 15sq make prime candidates.

Hmm, i can't say anything, but dynamics of the region are changing man. Russia lost all its allies in the middle east, it is bloody desperate to have something and someone to partner up and show finger to the west. Putin has never been the most 'mentally stable' man, he is a man of mystery.

If SU35 deal ever does happen, i would really want to know what did we offer in return, and it definitely won't be cash (that India can readily supply just to sabotage the deal)

Secondly, what if China wants these jets positioned, and China will always have more leverage over Russia than India.


Apart from that, your Indian concerns are genuine, but then they couldn't sabotage the MAR-1 deal with Brazil, F-16s with USA, AH-1Zs, Mi35s with Russia, etc.

 

[wiseone2]

Russia don't need money but it needs hot waters !

Russia needs money. Checked crude prices lately ??

Russia don't need money but it needs hot waters !

Checked crude prices lately ??
Russia needs money more than ever

 

[wiseone2]

India bought Poseidon 8 from USA, Rafale from France, maybe you already spat on Russia and let them down who stood by India for 67 years. Try to see things from others point of view not always your side.

Rafale is prudent diversification. I doubt Russians would object to iy.

Russians ought to be concerned about Indian purchases of C-17, C-130J, P-8I and potential acquisitions of Apache and Chinook choppers.

India has thrown a lot of $$$ to Russia for Su-30, Mi-17, MiG-29K, T-90S. I doubt they are hurting

 

[New Resolve]

Su35 will not happen unless the chinese are behind it in terms of clout and other guarantees with Russia.

 

[Humble Analyst]

I did say 'if' Russia sells such hardware as the SU-35

Understand what you said, but once you went to France and signed 36 Rafales cannot blame Russia to sell Su35 to Pakistan or you can stop it order 72 SU35s

Rafale is prudent diversification. I doubt Russians would object to iy.

Russians ought to be concerned about Indian purchases of C-17, C-130J, P-8I and potential acquisitions of Apache and Chinook choppers.

India has thrown a lot of $$$ to Russia for Su-30, Mi-17, MiG-29K, T-90S. I doubt they are hurting

Rafale is prudent from your point of view not Russian.

 

[TigerJay]

That's not what I'm saying. The problem is that India (as it is close to Russia and operates slightly older variants) has a deeper understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the fighter. It would have a tactical advantage over PAF, if the SU-35 were to go against IAF, simply because the IAF has been practicing with the platform for much longer. This is another reason why the IAF rejected the F-16IN, as PAF had a much better understanding of the F-16s.

These seemingly little things give huge advantages to the side that takes advantage of them.

I would humbly disagree sir. There's a need to look at this situation in a different perspective.
1 Chinese are buying 24 of these planes. As you must know 24 is not the kind of number China would be interested in if they are not looking to reverse engineer it. Even to RE they need more than just 24.
2 India is purchasing Rafaels soon, and Pakistan is out of options to match it, except for one that is Su 35s.
3. The current Chinese investments in Pakistan require maritime patrolling and a need for deeper penetration as well as counter threats with the only available 4++ gen aircraft to PAF.
4. In this whole deal Pakistan might have been less interested if Chinese were not involved. It is China that needs Pakistan to upgrade it's security.

So Pakistan will not reject Su 35s deal just because IAF had been flying Russian platforms. Also as per current news PAF pilots were getting training in J11Ds, that is not purposeless.

I hope I have made my point clear while trying to keep it shortest possible.

Su35 will not happen unless the chinese are behind it in terms of clout and other guarantees with Russia.

They are behind this whole deal.

Russia needs money. Checked crude prices lately ??



Checked crude prices lately ??
Russia needs money more than ever

Have you checked your head lately?
It might have been stuck in your butt.

Can you never leave the Indian logic behind? The same logic which put Bharat on the wrong side of history before and even now.

 

[Knight Rider]

Every Body was saying the same for MI-35M Hinds that Pakistan will not get it look what happened,we finally got the (Flying Tanks).

You Indian are always in a shock if Pakistan get something remember RD-93 Engines For JF-17 Thunders.

 

[TigerJay]

Every Body was saying the same for MI-35M Hinds that Pakistan will not get it look what happened,we finally got the (Flying Tanks).

I love these babies. They are so cute.

 

[dadeechi]

Hmm, i can't say anything, but dynamics of the region are changing man. Russia lost all its allies in the middle east, it is bloody desperate to have something and someone to partner up and show finger to the west. Putin has never been the most 'mentally stable' man, he is a man of mystery.

If SU35 deal ever does happen, i would really want to know what did we offer in return, and it definitely won't be cash (that India can readily supply just to sabotage the deal)

Secondly, what if China wants these jets positioned, and China will always have more leverage over Russia than India.


Apart from that, your Indian concerns are genuine, but then they couldn't sabotage the MAR-1 deal with Brazil, F-16s with USA, AH-1Zs, Mi35s with Russia, etc.

Excellent.Yes, the key question is what does Russia want from Pakistan which India cannot provide

Money .. Absolutely NOT

Opposition to US .......hmm debatable

Support against terrorism .. May be

Customer diversification ...... Yes (India does not have an alternative to Russia)

Access to Arabian Sea ..... Absolutely without a doubt

Opposition to (US through) India ..... Absolutely without a doubt

 

[Quwa]

You'd be surprised how much talking is done, just for talking's sake. The recent warming of relations between Russia and Pakistan is going up, but there is no reason to believe that PAF is interested in the Su-35. Talking is done to maintain and improve relations, that is probably what is going on here.


I'm glad you finally agree.

Sure but Russia and Pakistan already have things to talk about, e.g. RD-93, counterterrorism, approaches to international issues such as Syria, SCO, etc. There's enough relationship building talk material here to make Su-35 a non-starter. But the reality seems to be that the Su-35 is on the agenda, especially when it would have been easy for both parties to mutually deny it, they're instead letting the smoke run. But we all have to accept that things are in their early stages, if true, we'll find out the specifics in the coming months.