Talking to the Taliban

[Munir]

Fellow forum members...

It doesn't matter how many NATO troops are deployed, or how much money Saudi throws at the problem.

The key to peace in Afghanistan, lies in Pakistan.


Dare I say - that peace may only be secured by sitting down and talking to Taliban in the NWFP.

I disagree. Pakistan does not produce heroin for the rest of the world. Neither did it hide Al Qaida when they were ready to be destroyed. And Afghanistan is hardly a democracy. The warlords are child abusers and murderers. Maybe Pakistan has its own failed politicians but they do not come near the state the Afghanistani represent.

The key to peace is eradicating fanatics in Afghanistan. Fence the border.

Talking to Taleban in Pakistan is simple. Lay down weapons. Stop any activity that is negative for Pakistan.

 

[Al Shaheen]

I disagree. Pakistan does not produce heroin for the rest of the world. Neither did it hide Al Qaida when they were ready to be destroyed. And Afghanistan is hardly a democracy. The warlords are child abusers and murderers. Maybe Pakistan has its own failed politicians but they do not come near the state the Afghanistani represent.

The key to peace is eradicating fanatics in Afghanistan. Fence the border.

Talking to Taleban in Pakistan is simple. Lay down weapons. Stop any activity that is negative for Pakistan.

You have democratic right to disagree and I am open to any suggestions you may have to remove this threat.

But please, don't fabricate - I never said Pakistan produces heroin or harbours Al Qaeda in my statement.

Can we agree on that?

 

[Al Shaheen]

Fence the border.QUOTE]

Munir You are kidding me right? There is no way anyone can create a totally secure border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

No one ever created a secure border between East and West Germany, North and South Vietnam, North and South Korea - people will always get through!!


The only way to end this war, is to sit down with the Taliban - and last time I checked they didn't want Al Qaeda either.

 

[DarkStar]

Al Shaheen, the right to disagree is a moral right, nothing to do with democracy. Please let us not assume that every human and fundamental right derives from democracy. A couple of hundred years ago, few states were truly democratic, yet I would bet they had more individual freedoms than people have these days, ( bar the odd, mad persecuting ruler now and than).

The problem of Afghanistan is not in Pakistan. However it is made to look as if the problem is in Pakistan.
Why?
Because American military commanders in Afghanistan are held accountable for their failures by their political masters, and the only way to evade blame is to apportion it somewhere else. So Pakistan is blamed for the inadequacies of the US military approach. They try to win civilian hearts and minds by bombing them, and then handing out chocolates to the surviving orphans. When this does not quell the violence, but in fact increases it, they start pointing the finger towards Pakistan. We cannot solve this because of save havens, sanctuaries, seminaries, training camps, etc in Pakistan.
An opening is being made, and the envelope is being pushed further and further.
But the Pakistanis should not be eager to find a war in all this. Because today or tomorrow, this war will surely find them.

 

[Al Shaheen]

Al Shaheen, the right to disagree is a moral right, nothing to do with democracy.

Hold on there tiger; I offered him the democratic right to disagree after he disagreed!! Strangely, he has yet to respond...

Please let us not assume that every human and fundamental right derives from democracy. A couple of hundred years ago, few states were truly democratic, yet I would bet they had more individual freedoms than people have these days, ( bar the odd, mad persecuting ruler now and than).

I'm being very British and arrogant. Excuse me. You are correct.

The problem of Afghanistan is not in Pakistan. However it is made to look as if the problem is in Pakistan.
Why?
Because American military commanders in Afghanistan are held accountable for their failures by their political masters, and the only way to evade blame is to apportion it somewhere else. So Pakistan is blamed for the inadequacies of the US military approach. They try to win civilian hearts and minds by bombing them, and then handing out chocolates to the surviving orphans. When this does not quell the violence, but in fact increases it, they start pointing the finger towards Pakistan. We cannot solve this because of save havens, sanctuaries, seminaries, training camps, etc in Pakistan.
An opening is being made, and the envelope is being pushed further and further.
But the Pakistanis should not be eager to find a war in all this. Because today or tomorrow, this war will surely find them.

With all of the above. Is not talking to the Taliban a viable option?

 

[DarkStar]

Hold on there tiger; I offered him the democratic right to disagree after he disagreed!! Strangely, he has yet to respond...

The point I was making concerned not you giving him the right, but that this right is not solely a democratic right. Freedom of speech is a moral right, as evidenced in most pre democratic cultures. In fact, Quran and Hadees also testifies to this.

As a British subject, I am well aware of Europe's dubious views towards freedom and democracy that's why you lot rolled over for the Germans.

Yes, a subject you are. What democracy is this that you speak of, when you are not a citizen but a subject of the crown, and apparently revel in your subjecthood. As for freedom and democracy, maybe you are not aware but it is originally a Greek concept, far removed from the shores of your island. Read the history of the french revolution and the conept of liberte, and match them up with the persecutions that the British crown has inflicted over its own "subjects" during the course of history.

that's where we differ old boy.

Don't you old boy me. At least if you had also rolled over, you would have lost this condescending and patronising attitude once the Germans had got to you.

A Belgian looking for war? How ironic.

I'll put my trust in the good people of Pakistan thank you very much.

You seem great at assuming things. This from a person who has the flag of Saudi Arabia and the UK on his profile, and ignoring the fact that I have stated that I am Pakistani, telling me about Pakistan?

I have lost a grandfather, and a great grandfather in both world wars, and do not appreciate your ill thought comments. Sarcasm is ever the last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[Al Shaheen]

darkStar I still believe the only way to end this war is to talk to the Taliban.

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

 

[DarkStar]

You are 100 percent correct. I believe that we should not only talk, but talk aggressively. The Taliban are not a monolithic organisation, with identical goals, objectives and motivations. We must nigotiate a peace, and step up our support to them. The US model in Iraq, the Awakening councils are the way forward for us. The miscreant core will then be isolated and easily fold.

 

[muse]

There is a report that Karzai has asked Saudi Arabia to facilitate talks with the Taliban and that these negotiations have been going on for a while and that especially MI6 has been assisting.

 

[DarkStar]

That's great news Muse. In the near future we will see Karzai and the Americans negotiate a peace deal with the Taliban, bringing them into the mainstream of AFghani politics, while in Pakistan it will be insisted that there is no peace with the terrorists and operations will continue. The conflict is being juxtaposed unto Pakistan, and it seems like in a couple of years AFghanistan will be peaceful on the road to progress, while our beautiful country will be on fire. If ever that came to happen, I don't see even a few thousand of us being allowed to stay in AFghanistan as refugees, unlike the millions who abide here.

 

[muse]

Well, negotiations do not mean settlement - and if the talib disarm and give up militancy, all the better - Now, for these in Pakistan, there can only be death for them - the punishment for insurrection and rebellion, providing aid and compfort to the enemies of Pakistan, can only be death - at least this would satisfy me - but that is not going to happen, unfortunately - the weed that is radical islamist ideology will continue to grow in the Gulistan which is Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

darkStar I still believe the only way to end this war is to talk to the Taliban.

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

sure talk to them under one pre-condition - SURRENDER YOUR WEAPONS & LOCATIONS OF THEIR ARMS DUMPS/CACHES.!

this can be the only CBM from their side. they have to prove that they want PEACE.

 

[RabzonKhan]

sure talk to them under one pre-condition - SURRENDER YOUR WEAPONS & LOCATIONS OF THEIR ARMS DUMPS/CACHES.!

this can be the only CBM from their side. they have to prove that they want PEACE.

Right on!

 

[fatman17]

hey mods - pls note a lot of duplicate threads are being posted in the WoT section. kindly clean up.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Revealed: secret Taliban peace bid

Saudis are sponsoring a peace dialogue involving a former senior member of the hardline group

Jason Burke in Kabul
The Observer, Sunday September 28 2008

The Taliban have been engaged in secret talks about ending the conflict in Afghanistan in a wide-ranging 'peace process' sponsored by Saudi Arabia and supported by Britain, The Observer can reveal.

Afghanistan: Taliban rejects reports of imminent peace deal

Kabul, 29 Sept. (AKI) - By Syed Saleem Shahzad - International efforts to strike a peace deal with the Taliban collapsed late Sunday when militant leaders rejected any attempt to engage in negotiations.

The Taliban emphatically denied a British media report that suggested that its leadership was engaged in talks with the Afghan government to end the war and reiterated their determination to rid the country of all foreign troops.

The British weekly, The Observer, said on Sunday that the Taliban had been engaged in secret talks about ending the conflict in Afghanistan in a 'peace process' sponsored by Saudi Arabia and backed by Britain.

"The mainstream media is reporting a 'peace process' between the Taliban and the Kabul puppet administration which is being sponsored by Saudi Arabia and supported by Britain," the statement said.

Afghan Foreign Minister Rangeen Dadfar Spanta had previously announced at a media conference that there would be "good news" in a few days regarding a deal with Taliban leaders.More.