Taliban gaining Power : Talat Hussain analyse the situation

[KRAIT]

If we are talking about FATA, I'll be the last one to disagree to that since I spent some very fine years of my life fighting to clear our country of those camps.
However, India claims that the camps that plague it's population are in Azad Kashmir, my argument is simple. You know there are camps there, you have a spy satellite and a spy network, take some fu**ing photos and throw them at our face! But you guys don't do that, because there are no camps in Azad Kashmir!

Its not about Azad Kashmir or Pakistan...its about terrorist camps being there on the land occupied by you in the first place. Do you think GoI will publicly disclose these pictures/evidence to you. They might have done on very high level, just like Pakistan blames RAW for assisting BLA movement, why didn't they throw some evidence on our faces. These matters are solved at highest diplomatic level.We are not dealing with conspiracy theories but the fact that there is truth behind some news.

Keeping emotions aside, one should think, try to understand and digest the fact that their soil is used against their ally leave alone their enemy.

Same is the case with Taliban and its impact on region's stability. The forces behind them, their hideouts. ISI own ex chief Hamid Gul has admitted this that they (Pakistan) are still in contact with Taliban and both have cordial relations. We agree Pakistan's effort in rooting out terrorist against them, but the question is why support Taliban which has been condemned by every one. Why is there need of having a proxy army to keep Afghanistan destabilized.

 

[CENTCOM]

We have seen the TTP create terror among the masses by targeting all sections of the society including politicians, academics, healthcare providers and security personnel. They have targeted common Pakistanis in marketplaces, bus stations, shrines and places of worship, including mosques during prayer times. This is just to terrorize the local populace to give in to their terror and let them have their way. The Taliban have been rejected by the main cross-section of the societies on both sides of the border. They were totally cornered, but the unfortunate incident in November last year put a damper on our relationship. This has given the terrorists a chance to regroup, and that is the only reason we see an increase in their activities. The sad part is that we still see some skeptics who still blame the U.S. of training and supporting these terrorists. I would like to make it clear that the terrorists are as much our enemy as yours. We do not support them in any way or form. In fact, we were on a common path to eliminating that threat before our efforts were halted by the regrettable and tragic Salala incident.

The time has arrived when we need to refocus on our common enemy and go after them full force. That is the only way the people of Pakistan will get much-needed relief from the evil of these terrorists.

Capt. Joseph Kreidel
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

 

[seekers]

thats right

police, intel agencies and military forces are part of the society. if the population has sympathies with the taliban then so can some elements in these positions.
refer to the guys who were PAF personnel and they planned attacks on Musharraf due to his role in WoT
there are many examples

that Dr Usman guy who was no doctor just picked that alias because he used to work as a compounder in Military hospital in Pindi. he was caught in GHQ attack.

there maybe more examples HT is also trying to infiltrate into the army

no one is closing eyes to the fact but finding and charging those guys no matter what rank they are.

but the scenario is far ahead your thoughts brother. In mehran base the top rank Base commander, security officers are involved in facilitate the terrorist but the fact had been changed by just "routine negligence" and had been court marshal without disclosing the inside story.
i am really concern over Pakistan security after Mehran base attack.
no result of judicial commission in saleem shezad case.
sorry to say that i feel our security is not in safe hand after abbotabad ,GHQ and mehran base incident

 

[W.11]

let me be clear, taliban is not a threat, alquaeda is

and im sure america is redefining new strength of alquaeda

beforw american involvement there was minimum alquaeda presence, but alquaeda has gained much strength in afghanistan which is threat to pakistan

taliban has always been a region organsation to control afghanistan which immerged from mujahedeens, but i think now alquaeda is slowly and gradually taking over talibans, i dont think talibans had there agenda as conquering so nation, even in 90s pakistan and talibans co existed together without any problem, even today talibans are fighing americans to free their lands

the head of alquaeda is the wahabi element directly imported from saudi arabia, and these people cant speak pashto

 

[Icarus]

Its not about Azad Kashmir or Pakistan...its about terrorist camps being there on the land occupied by you in the first place. Do you think GoI will publicly disclose these pictures/evidence to you. They might have done on very high level, just like Pakistan blames RAW for assisting BLA movement, why didn't they throw some evidence on our faces. These matters are solved at highest diplomatic level.We are not dealing with conspiracy theories but the fact that there is truth behind some news.

1) When you say 'High Level' that usually means I'm included and trust me, I have yet to see a shred of evidence from the Indian side. The BLA claims are made because Baramdagh lives in Switzerland on an Indian passport, what more proof do you want of official Indian involvement?

Keeping emotions aside, one should think, try to understand and digest the fact that their soil is used against their ally leave alone their enemy.

ISAF and NATO, yes, India, No.

Same is the case with Taliban and its impact on region's stability. The forces behind them, their hideouts. ISI own ex chief Hamid Gul has admitted this that they (Pakistan) are still in contact with Taliban and both have cordial relations. We agree Pakistan's effort in rooting out terrorist against them, but the question is why support Taliban which has been condemned by every one. Why is there need of having a proxy army to keep Afghanistan destabilized.

Lets get this straight, Hamid Gul hasn't seen the ISI office in 3 decades, do you really think that he is up to date about Pakistan's interaction with the Taliban? Khalid Khwaja and Col. Imam thought they knew the Taliban too well and ended up dying at their hands. These retirees are trapped in the 80s, pay them no heed.
Secondly, if the Taliban were our proxy army, the TTP wouldn't have been using their lands as a springboard for launching attacks on Pakistan.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Lets get this straight, Hamid Gul hasn't seen the ISI office in 3 decades, do you really think that he is up to date about Pakistan's interaction with the Taliban? Khalid Khwaja and Col. Imam thought they knew the Taliban too well and ended up dying at their hands. These retirees are trapped in the 80s, pay them no heed.
Secondly, if the Taliban were our proxy army, the TTP wouldn't have been using their lands as a springboard for launching attacks on Pakistan.

I wish that decent members from India, America and elsewhere read the above and allow themselves a little bit of thought.

people who let our killers use Afghanistan as a base camp and a safe heaven are not our proxy army, nor our allies.
since the WoT.. there is no love lost now.. we have assisted Americans enough already to kill or capture a lot of Afghan Taliban so whatever they (Afghan Taliban) are doing in Kuner and Nooristan is their kind of reply to us.
note that both the above areas are parts of Afghanistan (where NATO & Karzai regime dont exist, and if NATO exists there then this is even more serious because that wont be just double deal, but triple dealing.

 

[KRAIT]

1) When you say 'High Level' that usually means I'm included and trust me, I have yet to see a shred of evidence from the Indian side. The BLA claims are made because Baramdagh lives in Switzerland on an Indian passport, what more proof do you want of official Indian involvement?


Lets get this straight, Hamid Gul hasn't seen the ISI office in 3 decades, do you really think that he is up to date about Pakistan's interaction with the Taliban? Khalid Khwaja and Col. Imam thought they knew the Taliban too well and ended up dying at their hands. These retirees are trapped in the 80s, pay them no heed.
Secondly, if the Taliban were our proxy army, the TTP wouldn't have been using their lands as a springboard for launching attacks on Pakistan.

With 'High level' i don't mean common people like you and me. I mean higher up the government.

I meant China, leave aside, ISAF,NATO and India. I agree its damn hard to have effective counter terrorist efforts as the terrain itself is the enemy. Hope this news proves my point about the subject in discussion. There are Chinese sources too.(I hope no one will call it Western Propaganda)
China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants
BBC News - China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants

With Hamid Gul, I meant when he was in charge of ISI. Things may have changed, but isn't Pakistan playing the role to bring US and Taliban on same table recently. I really don't care whether they are killed or died, one cannot shut the possibility out that there wasn't any link and possible involvement. Even if proofs are there, we won't be told (these matters are not for public to decide on consensus basis, as it is too complicated to understand). Call it a conspiracy theory, but we won't know the truth. (The word "possibility" generally leads to uncertainty and when foreign policy, national interest and strategic efforts are concerned, civilians are kept in dark, a naive statement but true )

India is not dealing with Taliban but LeT and JuD. US is dealing with Taliban. US distrust started when the terrorists left their positions after US conveyed their information to Pakistan. They blatantly said these things along with proofs( as far as I know, they were shown, don't have the link). India has shown LeT and JuD's connection in terrorism in India, lets forget for Kasab( one may rise the point India didn't allowed Pakistan to interrogate him), in past many incidents were claimed by these groups (i think their claim clears things up).

@Irfan

Agree with you the Pakistan government won't allow any support to any Taliban which may result in deaths of Pakistani people, bad for their image, necessary condition for stability. All we have been saying along is that now Pakistan have one of the biggest victim of Terrorism. The damage TTP has caused and will continue to, may exceed more what ISAF and NATO did.

But there is less of efforts on either side by India or Pakistan to work it out, as a common concern. Talks have resumed just to restart confidence building measures.

Your statement, neither ally nor enemy clarifies itself and point it out that Pakistan should take it seriously because it concerns to NATO with whom you entered WoT and your commitment to uproot terrorism, also it concerns to India, with whom you (we too) wants cordial relationships, increase in trade and what not. For example- The porous boundary between Pakistan and AFG has proved of the critical factor in it, with which we all agree. May be better arrangement can be made to deal with this. Things could be worked it out via more cooperation and joint action.

Also we would like proofs from your side too. And the way you stood against US for apology, should present and stand against it.

In the end, i would say that, one should get out if this POV that , If ISI caught, work of CIA/MOSSAD/RAW, If no involvement of ISI, we told you so, we have been saying all the way long. This also goes to Indian posters, when they question RAW's involvement. Indian posters have the same POV (atleast in general).

Mutual distrust is the only factor which is driving this discussion, and I again say we might know the truth what happened in this time after 30 years when another ISI/RAW chief retires and tells us the "truth", just like Hamid Gul did.

 

[swathi]

I wish that decent members from India, America and elsewhere read the above and allow themselves a little bit of thought.

people who let our killers use Afghanistan as a base camp and a safe heaven are not our proxy army, nor our allies.
since the WoT.. there is no love lost now.. we have assisted Americans enough already to kill or capture a lot of Afghan Taliban so whatever they (Afghan Taliban) are doing in Kuner and Nooristan is their kind of reply to us.
note that both the above areas are parts of Afghanistan (where NATO & Karzai regime dont exist, and if NATO exists there then this is even more serious because that wont be just double deal, but triple dealing.

If that was the case Pakistan would not have signed peace deal with Mullah Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadhur.

2007 peace treaty to remain intact: Mullah Nazir group – The Express Tribune

I think the above link can explain more about Pakistan policy towards Afghan Taliban.

 

[asad71]

1. Pointing at Taliban is a very simple way of bypassing issues. What we see in Afghanistan is resistance against an occupation force. In Pakistan, much of the establishment is really isolated from the people. The higher judiciary and the military are the only institutions that enjoy respect in the mind of the common Pakistani. That is why the higher judiciary is under assault from the political leadership.

2.The military is an institution which observer and obeys orders of the national executive. But the executive must not forget that stretching authority beyond legitimacy can be dangerous. The ordinary Pakistani is brought up through tradition, culture and education with values and ideals which now the political establishment seems to have tempered. There is a limit to the nonsense that Gen Kyani can absorb. He has his loyalty to his troops who come from ordinary Pakistani families.

3. Afghanistan is waiting for its true leaders, not the stooges of the occupation forces. Pakistanis are waiting for a drastic shift from the poisonous abyss that the political leadership has gone down to. People who think they can take Pakistanis for a ride - whether from abroad or home, are fools. Pakistanis are very strong - largely because of their faith.

 

[TaimiKhan]

If that was the case Pakistan would not have signed peace deal with Mullah Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadhur.

2007 peace treaty to remain intact: Mullah Nazir group – The Express Tribune

I think the above link can explain more about Pakistan policy towards Afghan Taliban.

So, if you are in reality an American, you are criticizing us for a peace deal with Pak based Taliban, but encourage your own govt to hold peace talks in 3rd party countries with the Taliban and you gave permission to your enemy to open a political office in an Arab country. Your NATO forces used to pay off Taliban for not attacking them, for that you guys have nothing to say. What kind of double standards do you guys follow ??

Before criticizing us, plz look into your behavior and policy being followed with respect to Taliban.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

So, if you are in reality an American,

which he isnt
or at best a "nationalized version"



hence I never respond to such time wasters who just flip everything back at us.

drone strikes--- --- --- --- --- is our fault
terrorism in Pakistan--- --- --- is our failure
anti American sentiment --- ---is our fault
attacks on NATO/ NA Govt --- is our fault

remember.. that whatever we do or dont do, what ever the taliban do in Pakistan or Afghanistan.. for the keyboard warriors like him it will be always our fault

 

[OrionHunter]

Lets get this straight, Hamid Gul hasn't seen the ISI office in 3 decades, do you really think that he is up to date about Pakistan's interaction with the Taliban?

Firstly, I wonder who made this guy a general in the PA? He uses his head only to keep his ears apart! But he's the toast of the media who deem him to be the greatest strategist ever that the PA has produced! The crap he spews is not even funny! I mean how can an army officer who once held the exalted rank of 'general' spout such baloney without batting an eye?

Secondly, if the Taliban were our proxy army, the TTP wouldn't have been using their lands as a springboard for launching attacks on Pakistan.

Good point! But as I mentioned earlier, all these groups are connected by an umbilical chord, however slender. And then remember, when the TTP attacks from across the border it's most likely that the CIA has a hand in it. They may not be as thick as thieves, but then as they say, one can even sell his mother for money!

 

[SMC]

How many proofs have to be submitted, you just don't admit anything. Even if China has expressed that terrorist camp on Pakistan soil is affecting and influencing Uigher population, why don't you admit the simple fact that there are terrorist groups on your soil.

Now we have covered entire world that admits this bitter but the truth.

Err.. what proof has been given against ISI/Pakistani establishment? Proof against some random independent group is not proof against Pakistani establishment.

Btw, Bharat and US is not "entire world".

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Its not about Azad Kashmir or Pakistan...its about terrorist camps being there on the land occupied by you in the first place. Do you think GoI will publicly disclose these pictures/evidence to you. They might have done on very high level, just like Pakistan blames RAW for assisting BLA movement, why didn't they throw some evidence on our faces. These matters are solved at highest diplomatic level.We are not dealing with conspiracy theories but the fact that there is truth behind some news.

Keeping emotions aside, one should think, try to understand and digest the fact that their soil is used against their ally leave alone their enemy.

Same is the case with Taliban and its impact on region's stability. The forces behind them, their hideouts. ISI own ex chief Hamid Gul has admitted this that they (Pakistan) are still in contact with Taliban and both have cordial relations. We agree Pakistan's effort in rooting out terrorist against them, but the question is why support Taliban which has been condemned by every one. Why is there need of having a proxy army to keep Afghanistan destabilized.

contact and support are different...i'll gift you a dictionary, you need one

even tha Americans have contact with them....perhaps more so than even we do

 

[Icarus]

With 'High level' i don't mean common people like you and me. I mean higher up the government.[/B]

No, you do mean me. As far as matters of insurgency and low intensity combat go at least. I'm the government and intel 'Go to' guy in these fields.

I meant China, leave aside, ISAF,NATO and India. I agree its damn hard to have effective counter terrorist efforts as the terrain itself is the enemy. Hope this news proves my point about the subject in discussion. There are Chinese sources too.(I hope no one will call it Western Propaganda)
China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants
BBC News - China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants

Like I said, nobody questions the presence of terrorist camps in NWA at the moment and all of FATA until the Ops of 2008-10 however, I am saying that these terrorist camps are basically churning out militants that fight in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Their focus is not India, far from it, they probably will never even be told of the Kashmir issue by their trainers to maintain their focus solely on the Afg-Pak region.

With Hamid Gul, I meant when he was in charge of ISI. Things may have changed, but isn't Pakistan playing the role to bring US and Taliban on same table recently. I really don't care whether they are killed or died, one cannot shut the possibility out that there wasn't any link and possible involvement. Even if proofs are there, we won't be told (these matters are not for public to decide on consensus basis, as it is too complicated to understand). Call it a conspiracy theory, but we won't know the truth. (The word "possibility" generally leads to uncertainty and when foreign policy, national interest and strategic efforts are concerned, civilians are kept in dark, a naive statement but true )

That's a crazy assessment that if Pakistan was working as a mediator then we are in bed with both, Burhanudin Rabbani was working as a mediator and he was killed by the Taliban! Just because we can communicate with them doesn't make them our friends, any Tom, Dick and Harry can communicate with them. Just get on their wireless band in those region and voila! Talib chatter galore!

India is not dealing with Taliban but LeT and JuD. US is dealing with Taliban. US distrust started when the terrorists left their positions after US conveyed their information to Pakistan. They blatantly said these things along with proofs( as far as I know, they were shown, don't have the link). India has shown LeT and JuD's connection in terrorism in India, lets forget for Kasab( one may rise the point India didn't allowed Pakistan to interrogate him), in past many incidents were claimed by these groups (i think their claim clears things up).

In the past, cross border terrorism was a mutual game, let's not become holier than the other by throwing all the blame on them. Following are the two ends to the same story. Pakistani sponsored cross border ops on the left and their Indian counterpart on the right.

Op Gibraltar(Kashmiri Militants)-Mukti Bahini (1970s)
Khalistani Militants-Sindhudesh Militants (1980s)
Kashmiri Militants-Indian Saboteurs (2002-03)

So you see, neither you nor us are 'Doodh kay dhulay huay' that has been the order of the day for much of our history.

Firstly, I wonder who made this guy a general in the PA? He uses his head only to keep his ears apart! But he's the toast of the media who deem him to be the greatest strategist ever that the PA has produced! The crap he spews is not even funny! I mean how can an army officer who once held the exalted rank of 'general' spout such baloney without batting an eye?

This guy was a very successful strategist, he masterminded all of Pakistan's efforts against the Soviet Union back in the day. However, he has failed to move with the times and has been left trapped in the 80s. He is unaware of the dynamics of the WoT and analyses it through the prism of the so-called Jihad of the 80s. That's why he comes across as an ignorant fool.

Good point! But as I mentioned earlier, all these groups are connected by an umbilical chord, however slender. And then remember, when the TTP attacks from across the border it's most likely that the CIA has a hand in it. They may not be as thick as thieves, but then as they say, one can even sell his mother for money!

It's a mighty thick umbilical cord and people tell it to their advantage. The CIA may be involved however, they have little hold over Nuristan and Kunnar which makes active involvement a far cry. What's worth mentioning is that Maulvi Fazlullah was the Chief Guest at a dinner held by the Governer of Kunnar recently, which should tell you where the Afghan's loyalties lie.